What about Nik Stauskas?
- Thread starter upinsmoke
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I think I posted my concerns about him in some other thread, but Nik is concerning. I have 0 confidence in him right now. Not athletic, not fast, not quick, and the list goes on and on. The only thing he has going for him is that he CAN shoot. We can bring in Steve Novak for that very reason.
Nik is a concerning prospect because of all his negatives about his game. There's a lot of things that you can't fix. But with Ben, there's always things that you could fix. SG is the easiest position to replace in the NBA... if we were truly going to gamble on a raw SG prospect, it might as well be someone from Europe or a player with a ton of ceiling.
Nik's ceiling is probably Manu Ginoboli if he continues to improve on his handling. I do not see Klay Thompson at all. Nik is afraid to shoot. Thompson has a ton of confidence in his shot. The worst Nik could be is someone like Kapono. I feel like we've just gambled on a low ceiling player hoping he could contribute 3's right away.
That hasn't been the case...yet. I hope we avoid a lot of these future errors.
Nik is a concerning prospect because of all his negatives about his game. There's a lot of things that you can't fix. But with Ben, there's always things that you could fix. SG is the easiest position to replace in the NBA... if we were truly going to gamble on a raw SG prospect, it might as well be someone from Europe or a player with a ton of ceiling.
Nik's ceiling is probably Manu Ginoboli if he continues to improve on his handling. I do not see Klay Thompson at all. Nik is afraid to shoot. Thompson has a ton of confidence in his shot. The worst Nik could be is someone like Kapono. I feel like we've just gambled on a low ceiling player hoping he could contribute 3's right away.
That hasn't been the case...yet. I hope we avoid a lot of these future errors.
Way too early to tell, what Nik's ceiling is. Last season Ben was the worst basketball player of the league, a couple of seasons ago DMC was never supposed to be a defensive anchor and needed a shotblocker with him on the court at all costs.
Right now Ben is an underused super athletic and promising SG and DMC anchored our defense under Malone while averaging solid 1.5 blocks per game.
Before starting to make assumptions about Nik's ceiling we should start to put him in situations where he can suceed. Actually he made some progress on the defensive end. On offense he rarely runs the pick&roll, which was considered one of his strengths. Most of the time we use him as a spot up shooter - pretty much the same way, we use Ben. One could argue, that he needs to touch the ball more, in order to be the playmaking SG he was labeled coming out of college.
We shouldn't use a guard, which strengths were considered ballhandling, playmaking and IQ in a way we use a guard, who is supposed to be an off the ball player.
Nik's overall package looks very promising to me, but he has to figure out his own way to suceed in this league.
Right now Ben is an underused super athletic and promising SG and DMC anchored our defense under Malone while averaging solid 1.5 blocks per game.
Before starting to make assumptions about Nik's ceiling we should start to put him in situations where he can suceed. Actually he made some progress on the defensive end. On offense he rarely runs the pick&roll, which was considered one of his strengths. Most of the time we use him as a spot up shooter - pretty much the same way, we use Ben. One could argue, that he needs to touch the ball more, in order to be the playmaking SG he was labeled coming out of college.
We shouldn't use a guard, which strengths were considered ballhandling, playmaking and IQ in a way we use a guard, who is supposed to be an off the ball player.
Nik's overall package looks very promising to me, but he has to figure out his own way to suceed in this league.
Well said and I agree. It's way too early to make any assumptions on Nik Stauskas and one would think that so many here would have learned their lesson after trashing Ben McLemore both before he was drafted and early last season. According to many members here, Ben McLemore was a bust and they should have drafted somebody else. Fast forward a year later and Ben is a pretty good player and there is a chance he could eventually be a borderline all-star. Not saying he will be an all-star but at least the potential is there. At the very least Ben is a solid starter and not a bust.
Stauskas for the most part has not looked very good but he has shown flashes in a few games and I think as he gets more comfortable in the league he should improve. Mostly what he needs is confidence and as he gains confidence maybe he'll start handling the ball more and running pick-n-rolls for his own shot or to create one for someone else. The defense is a big concern but then again Ben McLemore was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen last year. If Ben can develop into a good defender, no reason Nik can't develop into an average/serviceable defender.
One thing I think is clear, Stauskas doesn't have huge upside but I think they knew that when they drafted him. I don't see huge downside with him either. Not every player that you draft needs to have star potential, sometimes just drafting a solid rotation player with a particular helpful skill-set (in his case outside shooting) is a good draft pick. So many players taken in the draft are actual busts that are out of the league in a few years. I don't think Stauskas will be one of them.
Stauskas for the most part has not looked very good but he has shown flashes in a few games and I think as he gets more comfortable in the league he should improve. Mostly what he needs is confidence and as he gains confidence maybe he'll start handling the ball more and running pick-n-rolls for his own shot or to create one for someone else. The defense is a big concern but then again Ben McLemore was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen last year. If Ben can develop into a good defender, no reason Nik can't develop into an average/serviceable defender.
One thing I think is clear, Stauskas doesn't have huge upside but I think they knew that when they drafted him. I don't see huge downside with him either. Not every player that you draft needs to have star potential, sometimes just drafting a solid rotation player with a particular helpful skill-set (in his case outside shooting) is a good draft pick. So many players taken in the draft are actual busts that are out of the league in a few years. I don't think Stauskas will be one of them.
I'm not particularly concerned about Nik. The FO consistently overestimates whether their draft picks are "NBA ready." But basically, Ben played like a rookie, Nik is playing like a rookie. Ben can't shoot, I must have read that every day. I maintained then and I maintain the same thing with Nik, both guys CAN shoot. Whether Nik will do it at this level remains to be seen, but the kid can shoot. I don't care what his percentages are now.
I've seen signs out of Nik that he can be a player in this league. Not a star, but he'll find a role. Or could. Way too early for the bust tag.
I've seen signs out of Nik that he can be a player in this league. Not a star, but he'll find a role. Or could. Way too early for the bust tag.
I don't know man. People questioned Ben's basketball IQ and basically said he is dumb and that you can't teach basketball IQ. I think that is true to a large extent but Ben was just timid and nervous it turned out he's not a dumb player. They also said that Ben cant handle the ball and that's one of the hardest things to continue to develop. That is somewhat true but he has improved his ball handling somewhat to where it's no longer a massive liability.
The biggest thing people are going to hang over Stauskas' head is that he's not athletic or quick enough to play solid defense. Could be true yet a guy like Steve Kerr who is a few inches shorter and less athletic than Stauskas not only survived and thrived in the league as a great role-player but he also played on the Bulls and Spurs with some of the greatest defensive teams ever. If Steve Kerr can succeed in the league and not totally kill his team on defense then there is no reason that Nik doesn't have the potential to do the same. Will he? Who knows.
The biggest thing people are going to hang over Stauskas' head is that he's not athletic or quick enough to play solid defense. Could be true yet a guy like Steve Kerr who is a few inches shorter and less athletic than Stauskas not only survived and thrived in the league as a great role-player but he also played on the Bulls and Spurs with some of the greatest defensive teams ever. If Steve Kerr can succeed in the league and not totally kill his team on defense then there is no reason that Nik doesn't have the potential to do the same. Will he? Who knows.
He needs to be send to the D-League to go out there and get some confidence up. He's providing nothing for the Kings right now other than the occasional 6 to 12 point game. If Brady Heslip can ball out in that gimmick system then im sure Nik could as well.
That said, i won't be sad at all if they trade him. I just don't see the potential there like you could see with Ben when he sucked last year. Yea he can handle the ball and is a good shooter but his defense will probably never be good.
That said, i won't be sad at all if they trade him. I just don't see the potential there like you could see with Ben when he sucked last year. Yea he can handle the ball and is a good shooter but his defense will probably never be good.
Nik is worse imo. Ben was threw into a huge role and looked terrible. We're slowly bringing Nik in, and he still looks terrible. We are not rushing him at all. All we expect out of Nik is to make 3pters.
...if Nik was starting, I'd give up on the entire season. His defense is BAD.
However, I think Nik has a weird ceiling. He will never be a good defender just because he lacks a lot of lateral quickness. He can handle the ball, but when pressure gets to him, he gets stuck. Nik seems to get blocked or stripped a lot when he attempts to attack the rim. BUT he does a lot of other things well. He CAN PnR with bigs and has the ability to shoot from anywhere on the floor.
I think his highest of the high ceiling is Manu Ginoboli. Ginoboli is a SG who can handle the ball very well and create great looks for his teammates. He can shoot lights out behind the arc (when needed to), and he's a great finisher around the rim.
His lowest of the low ceiling is probably Jason Kapono, a spot up 3pt shooter which isn't bad.
Right now, it's pretty hard to be optimistic about Nik. A lot of us expected Nik to at least come into the game and knock down his 3's. He's not looking very confident in his shot and leaves terrible memories of Jimmer on both ends..
...if Nik was starting, I'd give up on the entire season. His defense is BAD.
However, I think Nik has a weird ceiling. He will never be a good defender just because he lacks a lot of lateral quickness. He can handle the ball, but when pressure gets to him, he gets stuck. Nik seems to get blocked or stripped a lot when he attempts to attack the rim. BUT he does a lot of other things well. He CAN PnR with bigs and has the ability to shoot from anywhere on the floor.
I think his highest of the high ceiling is Manu Ginoboli. Ginoboli is a SG who can handle the ball very well and create great looks for his teammates. He can shoot lights out behind the arc (when needed to), and he's a great finisher around the rim.
His lowest of the low ceiling is probably Jason Kapono, a spot up 3pt shooter which isn't bad.
Right now, it's pretty hard to be optimistic about Nik. A lot of us expected Nik to at least come into the game and knock down his 3's. He's not looking very confident in his shot and leaves terrible memories of Jimmer on both ends..
It's hard because in both Ben's and Nik's rookie years, their struggles are almost opposite of eachother(with the exception of shooting the ball and confidence).
I think Nik is a player who will always have a spot in the NBA because he's a good shooter.
Kyle Korver has always been regarded as a poo defender because he was too slow to stay in front of his man. It took about 8 years for him to finally become an above average defender.
There's lots of things to be excited about Nik. I have no doubt in my mind he's going to have a long career in the NBA. My only hope for him as the year goes by is to start knocking down his shots.
I think Nik is a player who will always have a spot in the NBA because he's a good shooter.
Kyle Korver has always been regarded as a poo defender because he was too slow to stay in front of his man. It took about 8 years for him to finally become an above average defender.
There's lots of things to be excited about Nik. I have no doubt in my mind he's going to have a long career in the NBA. My only hope for him as the year goes by is to start knocking down his shots.
nik has a few things going for him. decent size for the position, ball handling, shooting. there will need to be a team defense scheme to address his short comings on that end. i think he'll be fine. they should send him to the d league to help w/ his confidence. spurs send their guys down to the d league to help keep their confidence and playing time. their d league team is mirrored w/ the main team in philosphy and sets.
Nik will be just fine. It's a huge adjustment from college to the NBA. He has the skill set, and to say he's not athletic is just ridiculous. And yes, in college he did remind me of Klay Thompson. Doesn't mean he'll be as good as Thompson, but he has a very similar skill set, and similar athleticism. Klay is little longer. Nik was a far better passer in college than Klay, and led his team in assists. The adjustment is not getting the touches you got before. There have been games where he's gone 4 to 5 minutes without touching the ball on offense. Not shooting, but touching. It's extremely difficult to do much of anything if you don't touch the ball.
When your a rookie the spotlight is on you. If Rudy turns the ball over, you curse, but move on. Just another turnover by Rudy. If Nik turns the ball over, ite a major disaster. Everything is exaggerated. And then you get threads like this one. Just like we had last season for Ben. He's a damm rookie for gods sake.
When your a rookie the spotlight is on you. If Rudy turns the ball over, you curse, but move on. Just another turnover by Rudy. If Nik turns the ball over, ite a major disaster. Everything is exaggerated. And then you get threads like this one. Just like we had last season for Ben. He's a damm rookie for gods sake.
Nik was never a player I felt strongly about to begin with. I think his ceiling is "solid roleplayer" and it's going to take him some time to get there. But he will be a lot better than he's shown so far. He looked good in summer league against players in his age group. The kinds of professional athletes that play every day in the NBA have been working on their game and their bodies for years. Give the rook time to catch up. The dreaded "B" word is thrown around waaay too easily in the Internet age.
That said, Elfrid Payton was my guy in last year's draft and he's already third among PGs in Defensive RPM as a rookie (link) and just had a 16, 10, and 9 game tonight for Orlando so I still think Vivek and Co. blew it on this one. Quincy Douby over Rajon Rondo, the sequel -- genuine top flight defenders with NBA PG skills are a rare commodity. Shooting is a comparatively cheap skill to acquire.
That said, Elfrid Payton was my guy in last year's draft and he's already third among PGs in Defensive RPM as a rookie (link) and just had a 16, 10, and 9 game tonight for Orlando so I still think Vivek and Co. blew it on this one. Quincy Douby over Rajon Rondo, the sequel -- genuine top flight defenders with NBA PG skills are a rare commodity. Shooting is a comparatively cheap skill to acquire.
Nik is supposed to relieve Rudy Gay of perimeter ball handling duties, but he can't do it right now. Hopefully, that's only due to lack of strength or confidence or due to coach's orders. Problem is that he can't contribute anything else apart from that (like defense, rebounding, steals, etc.), so it's pretty ugly.
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What I like about Nik, is his shooting form. He has a very quick release on his shot and a high arc, meaning he can get the ball into the air without much space. This is the key component for a dangerous shooter, who doesn't need to be wide open in order to score from the outside and this is not a cheap skill to aquire. His ball handling looks promising for a SG to say the least. He seems to be a solid athlete - I don't understand where all those assumptions come from, that he has a limited ceiling, because he is not a great athlete.
When you refer to lateral quickness, keep in mind that Wes Matthews is one of the best defensive SG's in the league and he isn't very quick. Curry, Butler, Green, Sefolosha - those guys aren't the quickest players out there, but still they figured out their individual way to succeed in the NBA.
I personally think, that every player has to figure out a way to cover his weaknesses and to play to his strengths. For Nik this isn't easy, because he gets limited minutes and because he is used in a way, that fits a player like Ben, but not necessarily a player like Nik too.
When you refer to lateral quickness, keep in mind that Wes Matthews is one of the best defensive SG's in the league and he isn't very quick. Curry, Butler, Green, Sefolosha - those guys aren't the quickest players out there, but still they figured out their individual way to succeed in the NBA.
I personally think, that every player has to figure out a way to cover his weaknesses and to play to his strengths. For Nik this isn't easy, because he gets limited minutes and because he is used in a way, that fits a player like Ben, but not necessarily a player like Nik too.
Not a fan of Nik now, not a fan of Nik when we picked him...wanted E Payton, and Nik has done nothing to alleviate those fears that he was not the correct pick. He's more athletic than I thought but he's far from being quick on his feet. Poor 1 on 1 defender because of slow feet, soft mentally, at least for now, not strong enough.
Any comparison to Klay should stop. I like the post that compared him to Budinger, which is pathetic considering we took him where we did.
Any comparison to Klay should stop. I like the post that compared him to Budinger, which is pathetic considering we took him where we did.
Then consider that the Head Coach the owner had chosen was a Defensive Guru. You would think the Owner, His Advisor and GM would bring in players that would play to the Strength of the Head Coach.
I like Nik's game and think he can find a place in the NBA. Payton would be a huge help right now defending the wing players. Ben and Payton would be quite a defensive back court duo.
I like Nik's game and think he can find a place in the NBA. Payton would be a huge help right now defending the wing players. Ben and Payton would be quite a defensive back court duo.
I was a big proponent of drafting Payton and I think he's coming along nicely. Still, he has the same weaknesses people expected - broken shot, turnover prone and a significant learning curve to get used to the NBA. But that's why the Collison signing would have been ideal. DC starts and you bring Payton along slowly. If he gets to the point where he's an upgrade as a starter then Collison goes to the bench and we have a high level reserve with a contract that is manageable.
You overpay a guy like Anthony Morrow to be the backup SG and help with the fact that Payton is a terrible perimeter shooter and you're good to go.
I hope Stauskas comes around. I'm definitely pulling for him and he's shown enough glimmers and BBIQ that I think he will become a contributor. But the ridiculous video of the Kings War Room and Vivek proclaiming him "Klay Curry" did the kid no favors. At this point he'll be lucky to be JJ Redick.
You overpay a guy like Anthony Morrow to be the backup SG and help with the fact that Payton is a terrible perimeter shooter and you're good to go.
I hope Stauskas comes around. I'm definitely pulling for him and he's shown enough glimmers and BBIQ that I think he will become a contributor. But the ridiculous video of the Kings War Room and Vivek proclaiming him "Klay Curry" did the kid no favors. At this point he'll be lucky to be JJ Redick.
And this Kings team is not ideal for the learning and experience Nik needs. Too much ISO and not enough passing in general and particularly not enough passing out to open shooters. He has gone most of his playing time at the three point line and getting no set ups. Under those conditions it is a longer training curve. Let's keep on playing him and hope our team improves so he gets better minutes.
I don't see the comparison between Nik and Klay in college except for the fact that they both played SG and they were great shooters in college. I'm really exhausted by their comparisons Bajaden. Klay was a much more dominant player for WSU than Nik was at Mich. I think that's one of the biggest difference between the two players.
Klay shot a whole lot at WSU with a ton of confidence. He had much more of a dominant role scoring vs Nik did at Michigan.
Here's their per 40 stats. Nik played 35.6mpg while Klay played 34.7mpg. They played pretty close minutes. These stats show that Klay and Nik were good playmakers, but Klay had the edge. However, Klay turned the ball over a lot more than Nik. Almost twice as much.
-The most shot attempts Klay has ever taken in a game is 32 including fouls that would have resulted in a FG.
My entire point of those stats were to show that Nik was not the same dominant scorer nor player Klay was in college. He was a more efficient scorer, but not the same dominate scorer.
The biggest stat of all that supports this is the amount of times where each player has scored at LEAST 24pts. I think 24pts is a fair number when talking about dominate scoring numbers at the collegiate level.
Klay had a much bigger role at WSU. On offense, Klay was great moving without the ball. He was constantly moving around and running. Nik was only decent off the ball. There's many times where he would just stand in the corner at the 3pt line and watch. Unless there was a play called for him, he usually just stood at the corner. Klay was always looking to cut or get open.
I don't know where you get the notion that Nik is athletic. If you're 6'6, you should be able to dunk as a NBA player. Nik is not atheltic by any means and it's the biggest knock on him. Not only is he not athletic, he lacks any type of speed whether it's foot speed, lateral quickness, foot speed, or etc. He struggled a lot against bigger and more athletic defenders because he couldn't shake defenders off of him.
Defense was a huge problem for Nik at Michigan. His lack of quickness was exposed by a lot of guards. He mostly guarded the weakest and slowest guys on the floor.
Klay's knock on him was lack of athleticism. It wasn't that he had 0 athleticism, people thought he wasn't athletic enough. BUT it was never lack of speed or lateral quickness. He always had the quickness, it was just a matter of how much hops he had. He was actually improving tremendously on defense and was solidifying his role on that end of the floor as you can see by his stats.
Klay came out of college as someone who was unafraid to shoot anything that came into his direction. Both are very different players. Both are different in terms of aggressiveness, physicality, athleticsm, and defense. The numbers stand out for themselves.
Nik has always been more passive than Klay in college. That's another difference.
Please stop comparing players just based on the fact that they were SGs.... I can name a ton of things that are similar about Ben and Klay too.
They are not similar players.
If you feel differently, please tell me why because I'm tired of their comparisons. Klay was a much more dominate scorer than Nik in college.
Klay shot a whole lot at WSU with a ton of confidence. He had much more of a dominant role scoring vs Nik did at Michigan.
Here's their per 40 stats. Nik played 35.6mpg while Klay played 34.7mpg. They played pretty close minutes. These stats show that Klay and Nik were good playmakers, but Klay had the edge. However, Klay turned the ball over a lot more than Nik. Almost twice as much.
- Per 40 points stats
- Nik: 19.7pts 3.3rebs 3.7asts 0.6stls 0.3blk 2.1tos
- Klay: 24.9pts 6rebs 4.3asts 1.9stls 1.1blk 3.9tos
- Shot attempts per game(final year in college):
- Nik: 10.9 FGA 5.7 FTA
- Klay: 16.2FGA 5.4FTA
- Shot attempts per 100 possession:
- Nik: 19.7 FGA 10.4 FTA
- Klay: 27.3FGA 9.2FTA
-The most shot attempts Klay has ever taken in a game is 32 including fouls that would have resulted in a FG.
My entire point of those stats were to show that Nik was not the same dominant scorer nor player Klay was in college. He was a more efficient scorer, but not the same dominate scorer.
The biggest stat of all that supports this is the amount of times where each player has scored at LEAST 24pts. I think 24pts is a fair number when talking about dominate scoring numbers at the collegiate level.
- Amount of times where the player has scored at LEAST 24pts in a game(final year)
- Nik: 7times
- Klay 13times
Klay had a much bigger role at WSU. On offense, Klay was great moving without the ball. He was constantly moving around and running. Nik was only decent off the ball. There's many times where he would just stand in the corner at the 3pt line and watch. Unless there was a play called for him, he usually just stood at the corner. Klay was always looking to cut or get open.
I don't know where you get the notion that Nik is athletic. If you're 6'6, you should be able to dunk as a NBA player. Nik is not atheltic by any means and it's the biggest knock on him. Not only is he not athletic, he lacks any type of speed whether it's foot speed, lateral quickness, foot speed, or etc. He struggled a lot against bigger and more athletic defenders because he couldn't shake defenders off of him.
Defense was a huge problem for Nik at Michigan. His lack of quickness was exposed by a lot of guards. He mostly guarded the weakest and slowest guys on the floor.
Klay's knock on him was lack of athleticism. It wasn't that he had 0 athleticism, people thought he wasn't athletic enough. BUT it was never lack of speed or lateral quickness. He always had the quickness, it was just a matter of how much hops he had. He was actually improving tremendously on defense and was solidifying his role on that end of the floor as you can see by his stats.
Klay came out of college as someone who was unafraid to shoot anything that came into his direction. Both are very different players. Both are different in terms of aggressiveness, physicality, athleticsm, and defense. The numbers stand out for themselves.
Nik has always been more passive than Klay in college. That's another difference.
Please stop comparing players just based on the fact that they were SGs.... I can name a ton of things that are similar about Ben and Klay too.
They are not similar players.
If you feel differently, please tell me why because I'm tired of their comparisons. Klay was a much more dominate scorer than Nik in college.
If you compare Nik to Klay, there's no reason why someone can't compare Nik to Kapono. I've said it up there though. I think his highest ceiling is Manu Ginoboli if he continues to improve on his ball handling. He has good shot creating ability. If he adds more strengths to his frame, he'll be a much better attacker and finisher. If he doesn't improve on those skills, his lowest of the low ceiling is a spot up 3 shooter which isn't a bad thing, but it's not a good thing.