Weird Kings stats - FG%

#1
Now this is weird.
I understand Kings had easier schedule post All-Star and that defense is not the strongest last couple weeks of april... but I did not expect this improvement in FG% from all 4 of our main guys:

(Games/Minutes/FGA/FGM/FG%)

Cousins:
Pre All-Star 32 29:30 6.1 14.1 43.6%
Post All-Star 32 31:30 7.9 17.2 45.9%

Reke:
Pre All-Star 33 36:23 6.4 15.1 42.1%
Post All-Star 30 32:00 6.6 13.4 49.4%

Thornton:
Pre All-Star 26 36:06 6.5 15.6 41.5%
Post All-Star 25 33:42 7.4 15.9 46.2%

IT:
Pre All-Star 32 19:36 3.0 7.2 41.3%
Post All-Star 33 31:11 4.9 10.3 47.2%

Should we expect 50%+ from most of them next year :p

Is it maybe possible that father time and uncle Smart actually made our youngins work better together (at least offensively for now).
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
#3
If you split up the season in thirds, you would see that the first 1/3 shooting was far worse than the stats called pre All Star game. The only consistent shooter all year was JT.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#4
Getting Salmons out of the lineup looks liked it helped everyone. Still have no idea why we picked him up. The shooting is impressive, but not sure what exactly to take from it as our Off Rating and Off Eff didn't budge much. We went up a few spots but still finished #20 or worse in both. Obviously some guys showed improvement but it's how guys were used which I question. Am also interested to see what everyone elses %'s looked like, and FGA's, as with such a jump in FG% you'd think we'd see a larger jump in Rating and Eff, unless we weren't getting these four enough shots and were getting other guys too many to counteract these %'s.

What also sticks out as it did before is Reke shooting damn near 50%, better than anyone else, yet had his mins cut by about 4.5 per game, and even with shooting close to 50% only averaged 15.5 ppg after the break. MT's mins also went down. It shows this team has some talented pieces but the use of those pieces was not impressive. With our top four shooting much better and a considerably easier schedule after the break with more home games and more games against sub .500 team than before the break, you'd think we would have had a bump in winning %, yet we didn't and if not for Char and the LAL 3rd string, we're basically winning at the same % as we did under Westy, who had considerably less talent.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
Now this is weird.
I understand Kings had easier schedule post All-Star and that defense is not the strongest last couple weeks of april... but I did not expect this improvement in FG% from all 4 of our main guys:

(Games/Minutes/FGA/FGM/FG%)

Cousins:
Pre All-Star 32 29:30 6.1 14.1 43.6%
Post All-Star 32 31:30 7.9 17.2 45.9%

Reke:
Pre All-Star 33 36:23 6.4 15.1 42.1%
Post All-Star 30 32:00 6.6 13.4 49.4%

Thornton:
Pre All-Star 26 36:06 6.5 15.6 41.5%
Post All-Star 25 33:42 7.4 15.9 46.2%

IT:
Pre All-Star 32 19:36 3.0 7.2 41.3%
Post All-Star 33 31:11 4.9 10.3 47.2%

Should we expect 50%+ from most of them next year :p

Is it maybe possible that father time and uncle Smart actually made our youngins work better together (at least offensively for now).
1) replacing John Salmons with Isaiah Thomas in the lineup obviously gave a big kick to ball movemnt.

2) Smart resorting to a duck and chuck offense meant a lot of easy fastbreak hoops...for both teams

3) before the break, our schedule was very very heavy on road games, and road games against elite teams. After the break our schedule was almost completey reversed. Home games all over the place. And on the season each of our players (young players it might be noted):

Cousins
H: .456
A: .441

Reke
H: .448
A: .458

Thornton
H: .458
A: .417

IT
H: .487
A: .414
 

Gary

All-Star
#6
A lot of it had to do with Reke vs IT at PG. You could totally tell the difference in offensive intensity. The only problem though is that our defense was even worse (if it could get worse than last).
 
#7
A lot of it had to do with Reke vs IT at PG. You could totally tell the difference in offensive intensity. The only problem though is that our defense was even worse (if it could get worse than last).
Instead of IT v Reke at PG it could also be... easier schedule, new coach system grasped, crappy Westfail system removed, less PT for Salmons, Cousins playing like an allstar and changing the pressure placed on perimeter guys, the loss of Hickson, different style of play (run run run run).

My opinion, while your statement could be true, it has too many variables to be definitive. I tend to disagree with you even, I want to see Reke play pg in a good system with some complimentary pieces around him. (This seems to be the hot debate though, doesnt it)
 

Gary

All-Star
#8
Instead of IT v Reke at PG it could also be... easier schedule, new coach system grasped, crappy Westfail system removed, less PT for Salmons, Cousins playing like an allstar and changing the pressure placed on perimeter guys, the loss of Hickson, different style of play (run run run run).

My opinion, while your statement could be true, it has too many variables to be definitive. I tend to disagree with you even, I want to see Reke play pg in a good system with some complimentary pieces around him. (This seems to be the hot debate though, doesnt it)
You don't go last (WAY last) in the league for the first half of the season to one of the top teams for the second half of the season just because you have more home games and such. It was night and day, and I feel it had to do with PG play. Being able to watch every game you could totally tell there was a lot less 1 on 1 play. Our assists went up by like 4 a game and turnovers went down by about 1 or so per game.

We went up about 10ppg

Our FG% was dead last in the league at 41% and in the second half of the season we were top 10 with 46%.

These stats are too drastic for just having more home games and a new coach.
 
#9
You don't go last (WAY last) in the league for the first half of the season to one of the top teams for the second half of the season just because you have more home games and such. It was night and day, and I feel it had to do with PG play. Being able to watch every game you could totally tell there was a lot less 1 on 1 play. Our assists went up by like 4 a game and turnovers went down by about 1 or so per game.

We went up about 10ppg

Our FG% was dead last in the league at 41% and in the second half of the season we were top 10 with 46%.

These stats are too drastic for just having more home games and a new coach.
I disagree. There are too many factors to be that definitive.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#10
You don't go last (WAY last) in the league for the first half of the season to one of the top teams for the second half of the season just because you have more home games and such. It was night and day, and I feel it had to do with PG play. Being able to watch every game you could totally tell there was a lot less 1 on 1 play. Our assists went up by like 4 a game and turnovers went down by about 1 or so per game.

We went up about 10ppg

Our FG% was dead last in the league at 41% and in the second half of the season we were top 10 with 46%.

These stats are too drastic for just having more home games and a new coach.
John Salmons, as starting forward last season: 31gms 29.7min 7.4pts (.372 .286 .643) 3.3reb 2.1ast 0.9stl 0.1blk 0.9TO
Isaiah Thomas as starting guard last season: 37gms 31.6min 14.8pts (.477 .406 .841) 3.1reb 5.4ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 2.0TO

odd what happens when you swap one in for the other
 
#11
I disagree. There are too many factors to be that definitive.
I am just pointing at the stats which all of a sudden flip-flopped once IT started. It's probably a multitude of things but I believe the majority reason for the turnaround is the PG play.
 
#12
John Salmons, as starting forward last season: 31gms 29.7min 7.4pts (.372 .286 .643) 3.3reb 2.1ast 0.9stl 0.1blk 0.9TO
Isaiah Thomas as starting guard last season: 37gms 31.6min 14.8pts (.477 .406 .841) 3.1reb 5.4ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 2.0TO

odd what happens when you swap one in for the other
Just saying our offense was top 10 in the second half of the season from dead last in the league for the first half. (Think we were #9).

I believe it had a lot to do with the PG play. That's at least how I analyzed the games.

Take a look at some of the game threads from before Westphail was fired and look at what was complained about most. Standing around, and taking contested shots. A lot of that had to do with the PG play. Passing to a covered man with little to no time left on the clock where he had to force a bad shot, or just not getting the ball to the open man. Those were my two biggest pet peeves at the start of the season along with a lot of other people in the game threads.
 
#13
I am just pointing at the stats which all of a sudden flip-flopped once IT started. It's probably a multitude of things but I believe the majority reason for the turnaround is the PG play.
You point out the stats that support your presupposition, but refuse to acknowledge the significant amount of other factors.
 
#14
Just saying our offense was top 10 in the second half of the season from dead last in the league for the first half. (Think we were #9).

I believe it had a lot to do with the PG play. That's at least how I analyzed the games.

Take a look at some of the game threads from before Westphail was fired and look at what was complained about most. Standing around, and taking contested shots. A lot of that had to do with the PG play. Passing to a covered man with little to no time left on the clock where he had to force a bad shot, or just not getting the ball to the open man. Those were my two biggest pet peeves at the start of the season along with a lot of other people in the game threads.
I was complaining that John Salmons missed 26 or something consecutive 3s.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#15
You point out the stats that support your presupposition, but refuse to acknowledge the significant amount of other factors.
He still won't acknowledge to Salmons factor, or really anything besides IT is great and Reke was a complete failure, never mind Reke at point the previous two seasons with considerably less talent around him and Westy as coach had a pretty similar record to what IT was able to do with better talent and a better coach.

When Reke doesn't do well with crap around him, it's his fault.

When IT didn't do any better with more talent around him, it's because the roster doesn't fit and Smart didn't have a full training camp, but no way his fault.

I can't be the only one seeing the crazy double standard.
 
#16
He still won't acknowledge to Salmons factor, or really anything besides IT is great and Reke was a complete failure, never mind Reke at point the previous two seasons with considerably less talent around him and Westy as coach had a pretty similar record to what IT was able to do with better talent and a better coach.

When Reke doesn't do well with crap around him, it's his fault.

When IT didn't do any better with more talent around him, it's because the roster doesn't fit and Smart didn't have a full training camp, but no way his fault.

I can't be the only one seeing the crazy double standard.
He likes Reke, but he is deadset on driving home the point that he is not a point guard. In my opinion he does this at all cost, forsaking even considering the other legitimate factors.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#17
He likes Reke, but he is deadset on driving home the point that he is not a point guard. In my opinion he does this at all cost, forsaking even considering the other legitimate factors.
If we were winning and knocking off good teams I'd feel differently, but we weren't. Not including the last game against the LAL 3rd string, we finished the year 4-15, with the only wins against Char, Por(who had crashed and burned), Minn and Utah. Sure the passing looked better, but beyond that? Maybe I'm wrong but if Reke were handling the ball more and a larger part of the game plan centered around he and Cuz, I think we wouldn't have finished that poorly.
 
#18
If we were winning and knocking off good teams I'd feel differently, but we weren't. Not including the last game against the LAL 3rd string, we finished the year 4-15, with the only wins against Char, Por(who had crashed and burned), Minn and Utah. Sure the passing looked better, but beyond that? Maybe I'm wrong but if Reke were handling the ball more and a larger part of the game plan centered around he and Cuz, I think we wouldn't have finished that poorly.
We were beating playoff teams when we were showcasing Tyreke and Big Cuz as our main centerpieces. You fit the team around your great talents not the other way around.
 
#19
http://www.82games.com/1112/11SAC14.HTM

This is DMC's 82 games. I used him due to being a main offensive weapon and being able to be featured in lineups consisting of Evans or IT.

If you look at the lineups where Evans was effectively the PG, the eff FG% was on the low end of the scale for the team. Granted, Salmons was in a lot of those lineups, but even if you compare similar Salmons lineups with just IT at PG instead of Evans, the FG% difference is very noticeable.

Thornton-Evans-Salmons-Thompson-Cousins .409 .488
Thomas-Thornton-Salmons-Thompson-Cousins .524 .493
 
#21
He still won't acknowledge to Salmons factor, or really anything besides IT is great and Reke was a complete failure, never mind Reke at point the previous two seasons with considerably less talent around him and Westy as coach had a pretty similar record to what IT was able to do with better talent and a better coach.

When Reke doesn't do well with crap around him, it's his fault.

When IT didn't do any better with more talent around him, it's because the roster doesn't fit and Smart didn't have a full training camp, but no way his fault.

I can't be the only one seeing the crazy double standard.

When Reke doesn't do well with crap around him, it's his fault. When IT does a lot better with that same crap around him it's still not Reke's fault.

I am not saying Salmons didn't have anything to do with that, but I believe that the main ball handler is the player that is the most responsible for the offense and we went from one to another with a drastic change. Try to twist it however you want, in the end it had the most to do with the PG position.

Again.... Salmons did have something to do with it. Just not as much as the PG change. IT was the new player in the lineup and Reke moved to SF so basically we subbed Salmons for IT in the starting lineup and moved a couple players around. So was the change because IT subbed for Salmons or because IT played PG for Reke when he moved to SF?
 
#22
/yawn

We tend to lineup throwing the same arguments at each other over and over. People see it different. Some would rather we place more emphasis on defense some on getting up and down the court as much as possible. Some want to have reke continue at PG were he was when we had started winning last season and others want him in the corner shooting 3s. Truth of the matter is we were a bad team with Reke at PG and a bad team with IT starting at point guard but you can't put the blame only on either. There is plenty to go around and we have argued what and where the blame should go since the first couple games of the season.

The primary ball handler isn't the most responsible for the offense. The coach is. When Smart said run run run and don't worry about defense we ran and we didn't worry about defense. And we lost more games then before but they were closer in scoring... Because when the game came down to the end real teams play defense. Any team can run layup drills but it seems last year we were unable to play defense at the end of games even if that's the style of ball we wanted to play.

And there is another line in the sand some of us like running and scoring and running some more and others of us like half court offense and sets and discipline and a defensive balance to the game.

We are a bad team right now and we are splitting hairs about player efficiency when we should be talking big picture about the offensive and defensive system because that is what changed along with the bricks from Salmons :)
 
#23
/yawn

We tend to lineup throwing the same arguments at each other over and over. People see it different. Some would rather we place more emphasis on defense some on getting up and down the court as much as possible. Some want to have reke continue at PG were he was when we had started winning last season and others want him in the corner shooting 3s. Truth of the matter is we were a bad team with Reke at PG and a bad team with IT starting at point guard but you can't put the blame only on either. There is plenty to go around and we have argued what and where the blame should go since the first couple games of the season.

The primary ball handler isn't the most responsible for the offense. The coach is. When Smart said run run run and don't worry about defense we ran and we didn't worry about defense. And we lost more games then before but they were closer in scoring... Because when the game came down to the end real teams play defense. Any team can run layup drills but it seems last year we were unable to play defense at the end of games even if that's the style of ball we wanted to play.

And there is another line in the sand some of us like running and scoring and running some more and others of us like half court offense and sets and discipline and a defensive balance to the game.

We are a bad team right now and we are splitting hairs about player efficiency when we should be talking big picture about the offensive and defensive system because that is what changed along with the bricks from Salmons :)
I am pretty sure no one wants that.
 
#24
Play any real SF
Bench Thornton
Proceed to win.

Every lineup with Reke/Cousins or Thornton/Cousins with role players was incredibly successful offensively. Every lineup with a real SF and IT-Reke or IT-Thornton guard lineup was passable defensively. It's not rocket science people. This lineup:

IT
Reke
T-Will
Trob
Cousins

with
Thornton
JT
Hayes
Jimmer

would absolutely compete for an 8th seed next season with an insane amount of youth to improve. Add in an AK47 or Nick Batum? Now we're cooking with fire with a strong 9 man rotation and Jimmer as a specialist
 
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M

Mal

Guest
#26
As much was you want to argue about point guard, the real weakness is that Cousins shoots for a very poor percentage for an inside player. He should be nearly .10 higher or at least exceed .500.