[WBB] Comments that don't warrant their own thread

Discussion in 'WNBA' started by StevenHW, May 20, 2011.

  1. StevenHW

    StevenHW Active Member

    This thread is for news/opinions for 2011 WNBA season. Even though the Sacramento Monarchs franchise is no more :mad:, we can still keep up with what's going on with the former Monarchs players/staffers and in the world of women's b-ball.

    Regretfully, I'm going to start off with a bit of tragic news...

    Former WNBA player Margo Dydek is (as of this writing) in a medically induced coma after suffering a heart attack in Australia. She was also three months pregnant when this happened.

    Thoughts and prayers go to Margo and her family (she has two young boys).

  2. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

  3. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    1. I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with seeing Penicheiro in a Sparks uniform.

    2. Krista Blunk? WTF?
  4. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    A well-deserved All-Star selection for former Monarch Rebekkah Brunson. Should have gotten the start, though.
  5. StevenHW

    StevenHW Active Member

  6. StevenHW

    StevenHW Active Member

    Several recent moves by the Tulsa Shock.

    (1.) Nolan Richardson is gone as the team's GM/Head Coach. He will be replaced by Teresa Edwards as the interim for the rest of the season.


    (2.) They have re-signed Betty Lennox, even though they had previously waived her just before the start of this season.


    (3.) They have hired Kathy McConnell-Miller as an assistant coach. This is her first WNBA-related coaching gig. She is the sister of former WNBA player and coach Suzie McConnell-Serio.


    (4.) They have released Marion Jones. The Shock also signs former Univ. of Oklahoma standout Abi Olajuwon, the daughter of former NBA star Hakeem Olajuwon.

  7. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Great game in Atlanta today: Rebekkah Brunson represented the Monarchs with pride, putting up a 16/14/4/1/2 statline, and Atlanta still got the win, which was as good an outcome as I could have hoped for. Damned shame nobody showed up.

    Trivia time: this was Minnesota's first loss to Atlanta since acquiring Brunson in the dispersal draft.
  8. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Watching IND/CON on LiveAccess; Sun coach Anne Donovan was just interviewed at the half by my Big Girl. I don't imagine that there's too many women that Donovan can look in the eye.
  9. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Atlanta Dream win the Eastern Conference for the third time in four years, defeating the defending WNBA Champion Indiana Fever. Sayeth Angel McCoughtry:

  10. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    So, I'm going to go ahead and post this here, not really expecting anyone to actually read it. But, I don't really have anywhere else to post it*, so here goes:

    I was reading a discussion about the upcoming WNBA Finals earlier today, and someone made the statement that Atlanta's Angel McCoughtry is a better player than Minnesota's Maya Moore. This, not surprisingly, led to a discussion of who, in fact, is the better player. The discussion then further descended into a misguided debate on what defines a superstar, and who qualifies, relative to the WNBA. The most vocal person on one side was trying to make the case that McCoughtry is a superstar, based on her raw numbers, and that it's not possible for a player like Moore to be a superstar, on the basis of playing on a team where she has so much talent around her. Whereas the most vocal person on the other side seemed to be making the argument that post-season accomplishments should be the biggest determining factor in whether or not a player is a superstar.

    I happen to think that they're both wrong.

    First of All™, relative to the superstar argument in sports, it really has less to do with either raw numbers or postseason accolades, and more to do with how big your footprint is outside of your sport. Tamika Catchings, when her career is over and done with, may well be the greatest player in the history of the WNBA (hell, as of today, she's a 7-time All-Star, 11-time All-WNBA, 9-time First Team All-Defense, 5-time DPOY, 1-time MVP, 1-time Finals MVP, the all-time steals leader [surpassing Sacramento's Ticha Penicheiro a couple of years back], and the only player in league history ranked in the Top Ten in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks), but she's not a superstar. In fact, if you could find ten non-WNBA fans who've ever heard of her, I'd be astonished. McCoughtry is second among active players in career scoring average, she's led the league in scoring two years in a row now, and last season became the first player since Sheryl Swoopes to lead the league in scoring and steals in the same season. She's not a superstar, either; she's literally got no cache outside of WNBA fandom.

    There are only about eight true superstars in the WNBA today: Brittany Griner, Elena Delle Donne, Skylar Diggins, Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Becky Hammon, Candace Parker and Maya Moore. There are going to be some WNBA fans who, if they ever actually read this, will cringe at some of those names, but the fact of the matter is that those are the only players whose recognition transcend their sport. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't bet anything I'd lament losing on any of these young women being recognized by sight, with the exception of Griner... but, at least if Taurasi were walking down the street, wearing a shirt that read, "I'm Diana Taurasi" on it, I'd bet lunch that at least one in twenty non-WNBA fans would recognize the name. The same doesn't hold true for Catchings, or McCoughtry, or Lindsay Whelan, or Penny Taylor, or Seimone Augustus, or Cappie Pondexter, or Tina Charles, or any host of other supremely talented women in the WNBA.

    Now, as far as the discussion between McCoughtry and Moore goes, I tend to side with McCoughtry. Granted, the evidence certainly seems to indicate that Moore is a more "efficient" player than McCoughtry, but the evidence also seems to indicate that Moore plays with a much better supporting cast than McCoughtry. Maybe I'm being unfair to Miss Moore, but I don't actually believe that, if the two of them swapped teams, that she would still continue to shoot 51 percent. I don't actually believe that she would continue to have an assist-to-turnover ratio of just under 2:1.

    I was looking at their respective careers, amateur and pro, and I can't help but notice how incredibly fortunate Moore has been her whole life: she won three high school state championships, as well as a high school national championship, playing for Collins Hill, but during that same stretch of time, she also played with four other girls who ended up playing in Division I. Do you know how many girls who ended up playing in Division I that McCoughtry played with in any one year during her four at St. Francis? I'll give you a hint: it was less than four. McCoughtry played exactly one year with a stacked lineup, during her one year at The Patterson School, while she was trying to earn Division I eligibility and, guess what? She won a prep national championship, too.

    Moore won two NCAA National Championships in her four years at Connecticut, but she also never played a single season there with fewer than four other WNBA players. McCoughtry, by comparison, didn't reach the Final Four until her senior year at Louisville, and lost in the final game to one of those two UConn teams. The year that Connecticut beat Louisville, Moore played on a team with four other WNBA players. How many WNBA players, besides McCoughtry, do you think were on that Louisville team? I'll give you a hint: it was way less than four. I'd be interested in seeing how many trips to the Final Four Moore would have made if she'd played on a team in college whose second-best player was Candyce Bingham?

    McCoughtry has, by and large, been an inefficient chucker in her WNBA career. It is noteworthy, I think, that during her rookie season, the one season in her pro career where she wasn't expected to carry the team offensively (coincidentally, also the only season in her career where she played with another star player), she shot just under 48 percent, which is way above her career .428 average. She was drafted by an expansion team and, in two years, they went from the worst record in the history of the league, to the Finals.; they are about to make their third trip to the Finals in four years. Moore was drafted by a team that already had a Number One overall pick, and four players who had already been to the Finals on different teams (three of which had won championships). She won a championship her first season, and is about to make her third straight trip to the Finals. Now, I'm not going to lie and say that Moore had nothing to do with that championship, but I'd like to see her get to the Finals on a team where the starting point guard is Shalee Lehning, and not Lindsay Whelan, and the second-best player on the team is Erika deSouza, and not, well... Maya Moore.

    I think it's also worth noting that, the one occasion that she played with other players on her level (Team USA), she led the team in field goal percentage and steals, and was second on the team in scoring, despite not starting a single game, so my inclination is to believe that McCoughtry's lack of efficiency has more to do with the demands placed on her by her club team.

    Let's suppose, for argument's sake, that Atlanta upsets Minnesota in the Finals, and then Griner and Delle Done end up dominating the league for the next decade, and Maya Moore never wins another championship. If Moore and McCoughtry end up with the same number of championships, who's going to be thought of as the better player? I may be biased, but I lean towards the latter.

    Oh, and just so that I'm keeping in with the spirit of the board, MONARCHS IN 2015

    *- (there is one message board that is pretty much the go-to site for WNBA discussion, but I decline to register there, on account of I don't feel like my posting style is compatible with their board culture; I might last a whole week before I got myself banned)
  11. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    I read the first half, but as a non-WNBA fan I skimmed over the career accomplishments for McCoughtry and Moore to get to my reply.

    From the point of view of a non-WNBA fan, I'm not sure you've gauged the recognition factors of these players correctly. I have absolutely heard of Tamika Catchings and understand that she is one of the best players in the WNBA, though I do not know what she looks like. I am well familiar with Bird, Taurasi, and Parker, and could identify them by sight. Griner I know of, but is a step below Catchings in my consciousness. But out of Donne, Diggins, Hammon, Moore, and McCoughtry, I could not have accurately picked out a single one on a multiple choice test. So if nothing else you might be selling Catchings' recognition factor short.
  12. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    My response to that would be to suggest that you're the "exception," rather than the "rule." I wouldn't bet that more than one in a hundred non-fans would consider Tamika Catchings more recognizable than Elena Delle Donne. I'm also not clear on what you're getting at about the multiple choice test?

    When I talk about recognition, I mean that more non-fans would know that Maya Moore was a basketball player, if they heard the name in a casual conversation, than would know the same thing about Angel McCoughtry. As a fan, I definitely appreciate that you consider Tamika Catchings to be more recognizable than Skylar Diggins. And, in terms of what they've contributed to the game, that's as it should be. But, I bet you lunch that more non-fans have heard the name Skylar Diggins than have ever heard the name Tamika Catchings. Diggins, just as an example, has been on 106 and Park, on BET. Catchings has never had anything close to approaching that level of media exposure.
  13. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    By "multiple choice test", I mean if you asked me...
    Which one of the following people is a WNBA player?
    A. Lisa Rhodes
    B. Elena Delle Donne
    C. Kristi Johnson
    D. Malina George
    ...that I'd be guessing at chance.

    I suppose you could go the other way:
    Elena Delle Donne is most recognizable as a...
    A. WNBA player
    B. TV Weatherperson
    C. Model
    D. Member of the U.S. House of Representatives
    I couldn't guess better than chance at that one, either, not knowing the discussion was about the WNBA.

    As far as Catchings goes, I think the media exposure that leads me to understand that she is one of the best WNBA players has come if not exclusively, then almost so from ESPN. For whatever that's worth.
  14. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Yeah, well, when I refer to media exposure, I'm not talking about ESPN. The sort of people who watch BET, or TMZ, or the E! Network, or OWN, or the WE channel are far more likely to have heard of Delle Donne.

    And, with respect to your multiple choice hypothetical, I'm going to stand by what I said earlier: there's no way that you're typical of non-fans in that regard.
  15. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Congratulations to Rebekkah Brunson, on winning her third WNBA championship. The rest of the Lynx can go straight to hell, though. #Monarchs4Life
    Warhawk and VF21 like this.
  16. 6th

    6th Homer Fan Since 1985

    Congrats to Bekka! Once a Monarch, always a Monarch in our hearts. Remember, her 1st WNBA Championship will always be as a Sacramento Monarch.
    Prophetess and VF21 like this.
  17. StevenHW

    StevenHW Active Member

  18. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

  19. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Magic Johnson bought the Sparks? Does this mean they're going to stay in LA?
  20. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    :: checks Magic's 8-ball ::

    VF21 likes this.
  21. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Been watching the Women's World Championships all day. I think it's amazing, in a kind of hilarious way, how the Chinese national team is the only one which assigns uniform numbers according to height.
  22. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    You know what would make opening night really special for me? An announcement by the Kings that the Monarchs are returning for the 2015 season. :)
    Glenn likes this.
  23. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    I'm down for that, one hundred percent.
  24. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Me, too.
  25. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I remember a time where I thought the Monarchs could actually beat the Kings...
    Glenn likes this.
  26. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Former Monarch Kim Smith (now Kim Gaucher) had her best game of the tournament today, leading Team Canada in scoring with 17, as well as rebounds and blocks, and helping them blow out Czech Republic, to stave off elimination, and advance to the quarterfinals. Their reward, of course, is Australia, who is merely the #2 ranked team in the world.

    With Miao Lijie having retired from Team China, and Rebekkah Brunson continuing to be inexplicably snubbed by Team USA, Gaucher is the only former Monarch competing in the 2014 Women's World Championship.
  27. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Despite finishing well out of medal contention, Canada made a good showing of themselves, finishing the tournament in fifth place, their best finish at the WC since 1986. Former Monarch Kim Gaucher, after a few terrible outings, led Team Canada in scoring with 16 points in the 5th place classification game against China. Coming into the game only averaging 7.7ppg on the tournament, Gaucher scored Canada's first nine points, to get them off to a strong start.

    The Gold Medal game between United States and Spain can be seen on ESPN2 today, at 1400 EST, just in case anybody besides me was planning to watch it. As previously mentioned, Gaucher was the only former Monarch competing in the tournament.
    VF21 likes this.
  28. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    UMMC is going to pay Diana Taurasi to sit out the 2015 WNBA season.

    I think that this sets a very dangerous precedent for the W. Overseas leagues have been trying for years to get the top WNBA players to sit out the WNBA season, and focus on playing for their leagues. Some players have taken them up on their offers, but these have typically been players who were unrestricted free agents and/or players on the downside of their careers. Recently, Australian-born Tulsa Shock center Liz Cambage has come under criticism for her decision to take the money to play in China and take the WNBA season off, rather than come here. But Taurasi is the first American-born superstar to accept the money to not play, while still under contract with her WNBA team.

    This puts the WNBA in a horrible spot: as an eleven-year veteran, Taurasi's WNBA salary is capped at $107K; her UMMC salary is fifteen times that. And they're willing to pay her her full WNBA salary and then some, on top of her UMMC salary, just to not show up this summer. How is the WNBA supposed to compete with that?
  29. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    Very interesting. Of course the WNBA cannot compete.
  30. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor


    I already posted that link in the NBA forum, of course, but I feel like I should take the time to give a special recognition to Lisa Leslie here. She was one of the WNBA's first true stars, and an integral part to the early survival of the league. She is one of six women (Nancy Lieberman, Lynette Woodard, Teresa Edwards, Cynthia Cooper, Dawn Staley) with WNBA experience in the Hall of Fame. And, with all of the firsts that she achieved in the WNBA, it is appropriate that she becomes the first woman in history to be elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame who played her entire professional career in the WNBA.
    VF21 likes this.

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