I like it. Finally things might change for the better.
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article59457426.html
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article59457426.html
Voisin: Vlade makes mature move dealing with Karl
- Thread starter Siranthony
- Start date
Feels like George's PR team wrote that. Probably because they basically did.
Cuz did not get smart fired. Sorry Ailene.
Ray Ratto wrote a more reasonable assessment of the situation where he put the blame exactly where it always is in bad dysfunctional organizations. The top. Vivek Ranadive.
He didn't even mention cousins. It's weird what comes from people without agendas.
People tend to forget or gloss over that the franchise was in a death spiral before Cuz even got here. And it'll remain if he leaves.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/karl-situation-proves-kings-locked-perpetual-state-confusion
Cuz did not get smart fired. Sorry Ailene.
Ray Ratto wrote a more reasonable assessment of the situation where he put the blame exactly where it always is in bad dysfunctional organizations. The top. Vivek Ranadive.
He didn't even mention cousins. It's weird what comes from people without agendas.
People tend to forget or gloss over that the franchise was in a death spiral before Cuz even got here. And it'll remain if he leaves.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/karl-situation-proves-kings-locked-perpetual-state-confusion
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I disagree. Yes the organization has had a lot of problems. But the biggest problem in the last 5 1/2 years is not dealing with Cousins in the right way. That is at the core of the current Kings dysfunction. How do you know Cousins did not get Smart fired? It's time to stop blaming and take responsibility. No one gets everything they want. Cousins will have to take pride and work even when he is not getting everything he wants. Even if he goes to another team he will have to learn to work with others. As will Karl. They are perfect for each other.
I like that you say it's time to stop blaming then you go ahead and blame Cuz for the last 5 1/2 years. Ah, irony. The biggest problem? Not the relocation and ownership drama?
THE PROBLEM IS VIVEK RANADIVE! I can guarantee you that's the opinion of all the minority owners. The previous problem was the Maloofs. The problem before that was Jim Thomas. Before that? Greg Luckenbill.
If you think you can remove Cuz then everyone is happy and the team starts winning you're just flat out delusional. It ignores the entire history of the Kings in sacramento.
I don't deny he has room for growth. It's a problem. It's not THE problem. It's a reaction to the larger issues. There's no doubt he wasn't ready for this. And maybe still isn't. But there are people who SHOULD be guiding him and they change once every few months.
THE PROBLEM IS VIVEK RANADIVE! I can guarantee you that's the opinion of all the minority owners. The previous problem was the Maloofs. The problem before that was Jim Thomas. Before that? Greg Luckenbill.
If you think you can remove Cuz then everyone is happy and the team starts winning you're just flat out delusional. It ignores the entire history of the Kings in sacramento.
I don't deny he has room for growth. It's a problem. It's not THE problem. It's a reaction to the larger issues. There's no doubt he wasn't ready for this. And maybe still isn't. But there are people who SHOULD be guiding him and they change once every few months.
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This is the kind of crap that's making me dissapointed in kings fans. Cuz is immature. He pouts. His effort wanes when he feels mistreated. He isn't close to the leader he needs to be and all of that likely costs us a few games every year.
But when you and others claim that's the biggest problem this clown car of a franchise has faced the past five years it demonstrates a misguided bias against the young man or a compete misunderstanding of how this game works. Maybe both.
His attitude isn't the worst problem in the franchise. It doesn't even register in the top 10. The biggest problem is the complete lack of talent and experience at every level surrounding him which has only compounded his immaturity.
Kings fans need to get off their effort and attitude high horses and look at this situation from a less emotional perspective.
But when you and others claim that's the biggest problem this clown car of a franchise has faced the past five years it demonstrates a misguided bias against the young man or a compete misunderstanding of how this game works. Maybe both.
His attitude isn't the worst problem in the franchise. It doesn't even register in the top 10. The biggest problem is the complete lack of talent and experience at every level surrounding him which has only compounded his immaturity.
Kings fans need to get off their effort and attitude high horses and look at this situation from a less emotional perspective.
On this message board it is dangerous to criticize DeMarcus - you will be crushed by a lot of articulate educated and passionate posters.
I've been a DeMarcus supporter because Brick tells us he is a hall of famer, a generational talent, the kind of big man you only get one shot at. And I get all that - I see how well he can play. I see the stats Brick shows us. And it is obvious that he's being tactically mis-used.
But, for Brick or anyone else... when you compare him to Hakeem and Wilt - you seem to disregard the professionalism aspect. I would rather have a dickhead put up 30-15 than a nice guy put up 18-9, just like most of us. but...
But... DeMarcus takes the ref whining and tantrums to a new level. You take Derrick Coleman's emotional maturity/mental health and put it in the superstar big man talent set - do you have a hall of famer/generational talent anymore? Or do you have Rasheed Wallace as a self-imposed ceiling?
This board does cartwheels to turn a blind eye toward DeMarcus' crazy antics. It is not objective. I've been fairly slow to grow weary of it - but I have become fed up, just fed the eff up, with DeMarcus' crybaby antics. It makes the game as "un-fun" to watch as Rondo's gambley passes & swagger make it "fun" to watch.
I want DeMarcus to succeed in Sacramento but if he goes, I will not stop being a Kings fan. We did not have a Pat Riley to keep him in line. We didn't draft well while we had our DeMarcus window. We had bozo coaches.
Only think that will make you get out your flame suit faster than criticizing DeMarcus is to say something nice about Aileen. But here goes.
I liked Aileen's article. If Vlade just shrugged and resigned us all to a dreary 30 game slide while the team quits on Karl - I really resent it as a paying customer. But, if he has "taken a side" with Karl here, in any way shape or form - then that is better. It may be wrong, but it isn't luke warm. If indeed Vlade/Peja and the minority owners have urged Karl to go down slugging - his way - and will back him if he benches or suspends Cuz for quitting or throwing fits... that is fine with me. It is better than swallowing hard and making the best of how things are now, because we don't want to write a $7M check (or however big the check is). I know Aileen is butthurt over past DMC slights and her article says some "coach-killer" stuff that does not stand up, but I still like the article.
Last thing... just to make sure I don't invest all this time without getting flamed a little... Vivek is easier to defend right now than DeMarcus. He has been a model owner this year, keeping his trap shut and letting the basketball people do the basketball. I'd send him a fruit basket and a thank you card. You can look at Vivek's learning curve a lot more favorably than DeMarcus' imo. Vivek did not lead a team-wide mutiny against the coach (this time). Rather he has learned from past mistakes and evolved. I wish DeMarcus would do the same - starting soon. Just shut the eff up, run back down the court and play d. Guarantee he will raise eyebrows the FIRST time he does this instead of sulking and glaring and loafing when there is a (perceived) bad call against him.
bring it
I've been a DeMarcus supporter because Brick tells us he is a hall of famer, a generational talent, the kind of big man you only get one shot at. And I get all that - I see how well he can play. I see the stats Brick shows us. And it is obvious that he's being tactically mis-used.
But, for Brick or anyone else... when you compare him to Hakeem and Wilt - you seem to disregard the professionalism aspect. I would rather have a dickhead put up 30-15 than a nice guy put up 18-9, just like most of us. but...
But... DeMarcus takes the ref whining and tantrums to a new level. You take Derrick Coleman's emotional maturity/mental health and put it in the superstar big man talent set - do you have a hall of famer/generational talent anymore? Or do you have Rasheed Wallace as a self-imposed ceiling?
This board does cartwheels to turn a blind eye toward DeMarcus' crazy antics. It is not objective. I've been fairly slow to grow weary of it - but I have become fed up, just fed the eff up, with DeMarcus' crybaby antics. It makes the game as "un-fun" to watch as Rondo's gambley passes & swagger make it "fun" to watch.
I want DeMarcus to succeed in Sacramento but if he goes, I will not stop being a Kings fan. We did not have a Pat Riley to keep him in line. We didn't draft well while we had our DeMarcus window. We had bozo coaches.
Only think that will make you get out your flame suit faster than criticizing DeMarcus is to say something nice about Aileen. But here goes.
I liked Aileen's article. If Vlade just shrugged and resigned us all to a dreary 30 game slide while the team quits on Karl - I really resent it as a paying customer. But, if he has "taken a side" with Karl here, in any way shape or form - then that is better. It may be wrong, but it isn't luke warm. If indeed Vlade/Peja and the minority owners have urged Karl to go down slugging - his way - and will back him if he benches or suspends Cuz for quitting or throwing fits... that is fine with me. It is better than swallowing hard and making the best of how things are now, because we don't want to write a $7M check (or however big the check is). I know Aileen is butthurt over past DMC slights and her article says some "coach-killer" stuff that does not stand up, but I still like the article.
Last thing... just to make sure I don't invest all this time without getting flamed a little... Vivek is easier to defend right now than DeMarcus. He has been a model owner this year, keeping his trap shut and letting the basketball people do the basketball. I'd send him a fruit basket and a thank you card. You can look at Vivek's learning curve a lot more favorably than DeMarcus' imo. Vivek did not lead a team-wide mutiny against the coach (this time). Rather he has learned from past mistakes and evolved. I wish DeMarcus would do the same - starting soon. Just shut the eff up, run back down the court and play d. Guarantee he will raise eyebrows the FIRST time he does this instead of sulking and glaring and loafing when there is a (perceived) bad call against him.
bring it
“We have some issues, but it’s not that we can’t win,” Divac said Tuesday. “We have to sit down, work together and figure out how to turn this around. The coach’s job is to figure out who is going to play, and how many minutes. Make a statement.”
If this is true and not just empty words, then the option of no more Cousins' coddling has been selected over the trade Cousins option. Essentially, Voison makes two points: 1) By lending his support to Karl, Divac is sending a signal to Cousins that Cousins is not the one in control, and 2) he gave Karl encouragement to discipline Cousins (and by implication everyone else) by reducing his minutes on the court.
The article does not address why all of this dirty laundry was aired in public for so long, or whether Vlade sincerely considered firing Karl, and if so for how long he considered it before finally clearing the air. The article is presented as if all this was just dropped on Vlade's desk and now he's making a decision. Of course, we know that not to be true.
If this is true and not just empty words, then the option of no more Cousins' coddling has been selected over the trade Cousins option. Essentially, Voison makes two points: 1) By lending his support to Karl, Divac is sending a signal to Cousins that Cousins is not the one in control, and 2) he gave Karl encouragement to discipline Cousins (and by implication everyone else) by reducing his minutes on the court.
The article does not address why all of this dirty laundry was aired in public for so long, or whether Vlade sincerely considered firing Karl, and if so for how long he considered it before finally clearing the air. The article is presented as if all this was just dropped on Vlade's desk and now he's making a decision. Of course, we know that not to be true.
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For the sake of argument lets say that DMC is the spoiled brat locker room cancer you folks want to make him out to be. So then your point essentially is that DMC has chased off coaches the quality of Keith Smart, Kenny Natt, Westfall etc, and teammates like T Robb, D. Will, and Jimmer... then I say give me 3 more of these spoiled brat cancers!
This article is one of the most blatant hit pieces I've ever read in local media about the Kings.
With every other sentence, Ailene drips invective about Demarcus, solely blaming him for all the troubles of the franchise.
This reads like a spurned elementary school student would write it.
It's an embarrassment to the Bee.
Ailene should be publicly reprimanded.
With every other sentence, Ailene drips invective about Demarcus, solely blaming him for all the troubles of the franchise.
This reads like a spurned elementary school student would write it.
It's an embarrassment to the Bee.
Ailene should be publicly reprimanded.
Oh please. If I was his agent, I'd LOVE for him to be fired, because he (and thus myself) still gets a check, and then Karl can go on TV or coach another team and make more money, all the while the exposure boosts his profile and since this team is such a mess, still comes out clean. Keeping Karl is arguably the worst thing that can happen from an agent's perspective.
Perhaps not, but he has had issues with just about all of the 5 coaches he's had in 6 years.
Only people with agendas would see this entire situation and feel that there are parties involved without blame.
The same can be said of Karl. It doesn't mean he hasn't contributed to the dysfunction.
Perhaps not, but he has had issues with just about all of the 5 coaches he's had in 6 years.
Only people with agendas would see this entire situation and feel that there are parties involved without blame.
The same can be said of Karl. It doesn't mean he hasn't contributed to the dysfunction.
What was wrong in that article? The point about his attitude issues? The point about the franchise coddling him without things improving? The point about him not winning (despite every other "superstar" being able to carry below average talent with poor coaching to .500 records)?
Does he deserve all the blame? No. A lot rests on the shoulders of the two ownership groups, mishaps by the front office, and coaching carousel. But much of her points about Cousins and how it negatively effects the franchise are correct.
Does he deserve all the blame? No. A lot rests on the shoulders of the two ownership groups, mishaps by the front office, and coaching carousel. But much of her points about Cousins and how it negatively effects the franchise are correct.
I take back anything positive I've ever said about George Karl. sheesh... he's crazy and has learned nothing 
Jason JonesVerified account@mr_jasonjones
Karl believes Kings are fine, thinks they've lost to good or hot teams: "I don’t think we’re in a bad spot other than we’re losing games."
Karl believes Kings are fine, thinks they've lost to good or hot teams: "I don’t think we’re in a bad spot other than we’re losing games."
I encourage you to find someone on this board who hasn't had the same problem. Sometimes we underestimate the importance of quality coaching.
Further, I maintain that we have yet to see quality coaching this year. Where Ailene (who does have a negative history with DMC - let's not gloss that over) fails is when she mentions that, essentially, players need to play Karl's way. She can't see that this team isn't built for Karl's system. Karl needs to man up as well and suit the system to the players, because Vlade assembled a roster that can play winning ball. Just not the way she wants to see it.
I'm amazed at how many people just look at the name Karl and think "gee, he's a HOF coach, he knows what he's doing", but fail to look at his current body of work, which leaves a lot to be desired.
Further, I maintain that we have yet to see quality coaching this year. Where Ailene (who does have a negative history with DMC - let's not gloss that over) fails is when she mentions that, essentially, players need to play Karl's way. She can't see that this team isn't built for Karl's system. Karl needs to man up as well and suit the system to the players, because Vlade assembled a roster that can play winning ball. Just not the way she wants to see it.
I'm amazed at how many people just look at the name Karl and think "gee, he's a HOF coach, he knows what he's doing", but fail to look at his current body of work, which leaves a lot to be desired.
I totally get Vivick's quick response on Karl. Dead Coach Walking is the last reminder of terrible decisions with dire consequences. Vivick wants quick change and lacks the history with the franchise to truly grasp how devastating the instability alone has been on the entire franchise. So a quick obvious firing that removes that reminder of the PDA nightmare is very attractive.
They've run the gamut of coaching types: experienced and respected assistants stepping up to HC role, former head coaches with success, and HOF upper echelon coaches of the modern era that have had nothing but success! They've had "players' coaches", hard-asses, uptempo offensive coaches, slower defensive coaches, etc etc. This excuse doesn't cut it anymore. EVERY OTHER SUPERSTAR CAN CARRY A SACK OF POTATOES TO .500!!! Hell, Lebron carried an inept Cavs team to .500 in his second year, and 50 wins in his third under Mike "should never have been a head coach" Brown! How many more coaches do we run through before you wake up and realize that perhaps, just maybe, personality conflicts with the team's franchise player and toxic locker rooms may be a contributing factor in why nobody has succeeded in that chair? Granted, even before Cousins, the team was a mess under the Maloofs, but that was because they didn't have the money to build a good team. However the teams Cousins has had were more talented than anything since Adelman's time, and this roster currently has enough talent to where that is no longer an excuse. And yet here we are in the exact same position despite EVERYTHING ELSE changing. Why can you not accept the possibility that Cousins is a contributing factor to this mess?
No, that's not it at all. People are giving plenty of blame to Karl, myself included. But what baffles me are the fans, such as yourself, that gloss over any legitimate criticism of Cousins and downplay his negative attributes that are contributing to this "radioactive" team. He's plutonium and people are wanting to replace the water in the cooling system thinking that will fix everything.
No, that's not it at all. People are giving plenty of blame to Karl, myself included. But what baffles me are the fans, such as yourself, that gloss over any legitimate criticism of Cousins and downplay his negative attributes that are contributing to this "radioactive" team. He's plutonium and people are wanting to replace the water in the cooling system thinking that will fix everything.
I take back anything positive I've ever said about George Karl. sheesh... he's crazy and has learned nothing
Jason JonesVerified account@mr_jasonjones
Karl believes Kings are fine, thinks they've lost to good or hot teams: "I don’t think we’re in a bad spot other than we’re losing games."
Karl believes Kings are fine, thinks they've lost to good or hot teams: "I don’t think we’re in a bad spot other than we’re losing games."
George Karl is not that guy to stabilize. I wanted him here and he's turning out to be rather disappointing. He's either delusional or so egotistical that he doesn't realize what is going on around him. By all accounts, the players want him to coach them up, make adjustments, but he's not.....has to be frustrating.
All I know is that it's another lost season.
You don't find stability by creating instability. No legit coach who can handle the personality on this team is going to come here. Even coaches like JVG will waste another year in the media rather than picking this job. Nobody here even knows if Vlade will be the GM next year, so why making a coaching change now? Karl is probably gone after this season, but they need a front office established first before bringing in another coach. One step at a time. Everybody here wants Karl gone, but they want the cart before the horse.
I think people underestimate the importance of the players, coaches and systems around a star.
Durant, curry, gasol, Irving are all current all-NBA's that couldn't get over the .500 mark until those things improved significantly.
Ewing was sub .500 4 of his first 6 years in the league.
Bryant, Barkley and Olajuwon all went through stretches in their prime where they were either below .500 or just on the cusp and it coincided when the talent around the diminished.
The major difference between cuz's career and theirs is that none of them experienced 5+ years of organizational incompetence. They all had major stars added along with systems that were tailored to their strengths.
Durant, curry, gasol, Irving are all current all-NBA's that couldn't get over the .500 mark until those things improved significantly.
Ewing was sub .500 4 of his first 6 years in the league.
Bryant, Barkley and Olajuwon all went through stretches in their prime where they were either below .500 or just on the cusp and it coincided when the talent around the diminished.
The major difference between cuz's career and theirs is that none of them experienced 5+ years of organizational incompetence. They all had major stars added along with systems that were tailored to their strengths.
The problem I have is that today's NBA is more star-friendly than ever, and we have seen franchise players like Kobe, Chris Paul, Dwight, and Lebron carry average teams on their backs to .500. I am willing to admit that Cousins needs more around him to be successful if other people are willing to admit that he may not be as good as people think he is. He isn't the only one at fault here, but he's a factor.