Vlade's Brilliant Trade

#1
Lost in the commotion of taking a 7"2 18 year old with 27 syllables to his name was the timely dismissal of the Italian Stallion whose performance last season resembled glue more than Nyquist.

I cannot emphasize the glee that infused my soul and every fiber of my being when announced Marco had been dispatched for the 22nd pick in the 2016 draft. It is NOT an exaggeration to say his play resembled two of the worst performing SGs in Kings history:

- Jimmer
- Stauskas

What do the aforementioned trio have in common? A propensity to miss wide open shots, to betray their reputation, AND get abused on defense on the perimeter, in screen and roll and anywhere or anytime else resistance is required.

In fairness to Marco, he did experience a mini-resurgence towards respectability when Karl belatedly inserted him in the starting line-up. But this uptick in play was short-lived, until the team and front office declared "NO MAS! NO MAS!" and sent him to the bench with FAKE injury so remainder of meaningless games could be used to see if Seth was a real NBA player.

To add insult to injury, Marco wanted to blame his sorry performance on system and locker room drama. In 25 years of following NBA basketball, never have I heard a player declare he doesn't like plays called for him, as if attempting to exploit his skill set was an affront to his sensibilities.

Then there is the contention he was misused. That the pass-and-cut system in San Antonio was misaligned with the pound-the-ball preference of Rondo until an assist could be had. There might be merit to this perspective until realization that Rondo and Marco spent very minutes on the court together, and his horrible stretch for the first five months of the season were in reserve capacity with DC running the point.

Then there is the notion that Marco is a spot-up shooter and the Kings did not ask him to play a spot-up role. I have yet to hear a viable argument in this regard since even if you are a spot-up shooter, you are still required to move without the ball, and work yourself off screens and cut back door to make yourself open in spots to receive the ball.

The bottom line is the guy had a bad year and it did not work out. Kudos to Vlade for realizing this and parting ways instead of suffering more of the same incompetence in 2016-17!

Now onto the brilliance of Vlade:

462 players are ranked for real plus/minus, a statistic that measures the effectiveness of a player adjusted for teammates and opponents. Marco ranked 450 out of 462 players, sharing company with mega-scrubs like Nik Stauskas, Ty Lawson, Nik Young and Andrea Barganini....

AND VLADE DUMPED HIS CONTRACT WITH $13M DUE AND GOT A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR HIM.

But it gets better than this, my fellow Kings fans, with a hat tip to James Ham and Inside Kings Podcast for this insight I am about to share....

The Kings are going to be targeting free agents SGs in less than one week. I can say with 100% certainty ONE of the guys we will be pursuing aggressively is:

  • Kent Bazemore
  • Allen Crabbe
  • Evan Fournier
  • Courtney Lee

My first choice would be Allen Crabbe....because I think he has ALL-STAR potential, but I want to focus on the last guy, Lee.

The Hornets have a bunch of cap space and a bunch of free agents they want to resign, namely, Al Jefferson, Batum, Marvin Williams AND Courtney Lee (not to mention Jeremy Lin and Tyler Hansborough).

Because the Kings DUMPED a $6 million contract onto the Hornets payroll at a position Lee plays, he becomes LESS of a priority in their re-signing efforts. This means if and when the Kings do target Lee as a their new starting SG, a guy Joerger coached and knows well, they are more apt to steal him away with minimal resistance.

A 3 year 24 million contract offer ought to get 'er done!!!

The first three names are more appealing to me than Lee, but Lee is a legit baller who defends, fights through screens (something Marco never did and Rondo rarely does) and plays the game the right way, and will a significant upgrade over Ben.

The bottom line is Vlade did well....strategic and timely and setting to steer the Titanic away from the iceberg. My eyes and ears could not have taken another year of Marco flailing and bailing and excuse making.

Share your comments on this trade below....agree or disagree.
 
#3
Great post...

I absolutely want Crabbe. He'd fit in great here. Then ship Koufos to Houston for Beverley and call it a day (deal works btw).

Bev
Crabbe
Rudy
Cuz
WCS

Playoffs.
Where are the assists going to come from? We would have a hell of a time getting open shots with that lineup. No ball handlers that can break the defense down off the dribble.
 
#4
Where are the assists going to come from? We would have a hell of a time getting open shots with that lineup. No ball handlers that can break the defense down off the dribble.

Cousins is one of the best passing big men in the game. His assists would've been through the roof last season if Ben and Marco could hit an open shot.

Also, Beverley might be a decent passer we just wouldn't know because he played along side Harden.
 
#6
Cousins is one of the best passing big men in the game. His assists would've been through the roof last season if Ben and Marco could hit an open shot.

Also, Beverley might be a decent passer we just wouldn't know because he played along side Harden.
Cousins is extremely turnover prone. If we are relying on him to be Vlade Divac then we are in trouble. He can pass but he's not a guy you want trying to get 5 assists a night.

If Beverley could pass at least as well as Collison I'd be all for it but we simply don't know. It's a pretty big gamble to take when there are basically no SG's or SF's on the team that can properly handle the ball.
 
#7
I simply do not believe that Marco forgot how to shoot as soon as he got to Sacramento.

So there are two possibilities:
1) He lost his shot, and won't do anything the rest of his career and Vlade absolutely FLEECED CHA by making them pay for a husk of a shooter and give us a #22 pick for the privilege of watching him rot on the bench for 2 years.

2) Marco can still shoot, didn;t like Sacramento and/or the coaches, FO, and players, and he will start making his 3s at a pace that resembles his career averages.
If he does, then Marco will join the number of players who blatantly tanked as soon as they got here and showed they could still play as soon as we got rid of them (JJ Hickson, Ramon Sessions, etc)

Blob, this was probably one of your best posts on this entire board.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#10
I simply do not believe that Marco forgot how to shoot as soon as he got to Sacramento.

So there are two possibilities:
1) He lost his shot, and won't do anything the rest of his career and Vlade absolutely FLEECED CHA by making them pay for a husk of a shooter and give us a #22 pick for the privilege of watching him rot on the bench for 2 years.

2) Marco can still shoot, didn;t like Sacramento and/or the coaches, FO, and players, and he will start making his 3s at a pace that resembles his career averages.
If he does, then Marco will join the number of players who blatantly tanked as soon as they got here and showed they could still play as soon as we got rid of them (JJ Hickson, Ramon Sessions, etc)

Blob, this was probably one of your best posts on this entire board.
I'm going to say it's going to be option number two...his shot will all of a sudden be resurrected and then posters on here are going to claim how he wasn't given a chance to do the same thing here while your 22nd pick sits at the end of the bench, rotting. I can see it now :eek:
 
#13
I agree with most everything in the OP. Except I think Lee is going to get closer to 10 million a year. I prefer Bazemore from the group listed but he really likes ATL. I read some Bazemore comments about leading a balanced life and how he has gotten engaged since being in ATL.

Really any of the four SG's listed would be a solid upgrade.

In Vlade we trust:)
 
#14
I'm ready to max out Fournier. Anyone else want to jump on the Fournier bandwagon?
I would rather max out Batum and play him as a SG with some minutes at SF.

Gives us LOADS of flexibility. Great length, good shooter, good defender, can handle and pass. Can play SG and SF. It also gives us flexibility of trading Rudy to address other needs and still have a player who can play at and defend SFs of the league.

For example, trade Rudy for Bledsoe, sign Batum and Lee (with some $33 million under cap we should be able to do that). Sign and trade Anderson and use Kosta as the trade bait given that NO need a center since Asik is shot.

All of a sudden the line up is good defensively and offensively.

C: Cousins / WCS / Papagiannis
PF: WCS / Anderson / Labissiere
SF: Batum / Casspi / Butler
SG: Lee / McLemore / Richardson
PG: Bledsoe / Collison / I. Cousins

Still have an option of bringing back Acy and/or Curry.
 
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#16
I would rather max out Batum and play him as a SG with some minutes at SF.

Gives us LOADS of flexibility. Great length, good shooter, good defender, can handle and pass. Can play SG and SF. It also gives us flexibility of trading Rudy to address other needs and still have a player who can play at and defend SFs of the league.

For example, trade Rudy for Bledsoe, sign Batum and Lee (with some $33 million under cap we should be able to do that). Sign and trade Anderson and use Kosta as the trade bait given that NO need a center since Asik is shot.

All of a sudden the line up is good defensively and offensively.

C: Cousins / WCS / Papagiannis
PF: WCS / Anderson / Labissiere
SF: Batum / Casspi / Butler
SG: Lee / McLemore / Richardson
PG: Bledsoe / Collison / I. Cousins

Still have an option of brining back Acy and/or Curry.
I agree with everything on this post. I LOVE this line up. It would be a dream come true if the summer actually ends up like this.
 
#17
I would rather max out Batum and play him as a SG with some minutes at SF.

Gives us LOADS of flexibility. Great length, good shooter, good defender, can handle and pass. Can play SG and SF. It also gives us flexibility of trading Rudy to address other needs and still have a player who can play at and defend SFs of the league.

For example, trade Rudy for Bledsoe, sign Batum and Lee (with some $33 million under cap we should be able to do that). Sign and trade Anderson and use Kosta as the trade bait given that NO need a center since Asik is shot.

All of a sudden the line up is good defensively and offensively.

C: Cousins / WCS / Papagiannis
PF: WCS / Anderson / Labissiere
SF: Batum / Casspi / Butler
SG: Lee / McLemore / Richardson
PG: Bledsoe / Collison / I. Cousins

Still have an option of bringing back Acy and/or Curry.

It's a great lineup, but even if Phoenix was willing to trade Bledsoe for Gay and Batum, Lee and Anderson all wanted to sign in Sacramento it's just not going to be possible in terms of the salary cap.

Bledsoe makes slightly more than Gay so the caproom drops to a little over $32 million or so. Maxing out Batum costs around $22 million and Lee would eat up the remaining $10 million. Koufos is signed for $8 million and Anderson will likely commmand $15 or $16 million which the Kings couldn't absorb in a sign-and-trade.

I like Batum a lot but I'm not sure he deserves to be one of the highest paid players in the league but beyond that he seems committed to staying in Charlotte even with teams like the Knicks sniffing around.

That said, if the Suns WOULD trade Bledsoe for Gay I'd be all over that. Then the Kings could sign Anderson and Lee with caproom while still having enough cash to resign Curry and with Koufos as trade bait to address the SF spot if they wanted.
 
#18
I would rather max out Batum and play him as a SG with some minutes at SF.

Gives us LOADS of flexibility. Great length, good shooter, good defender, can handle and pass. Can play SG and SF. It also gives us flexibility of trading Rudy to address other needs and still have a player who can play at and defend SFs of the league.

For example, trade Rudy for Bledsoe, sign Batum and Lee (with some $33 million under cap we should be able to do that). Sign and trade Anderson and use Kosta as the trade bait given that NO need a center since Asik is shot.

All of a sudden the line up is good defensively and offensively.

C: Cousins / WCS / Papagiannis
PF: WCS / Anderson / Labissiere
SF: Batum / Casspi / Butler
SG: Lee / McLemore / Richardson
PG: Bledsoe / Collison / I. Cousins

Still have an option of bringing back Acy and/or Curry.
I think Batum's max is around 30m... not 100% sure though.. Fournier is much better than Batum/Lee. His ceiling is extremely high and he can be a real #2 piece who can actually run an offense.

We're not going to get Bledsoe unless we give up Willie. The Suns would have much better offers out there. He's a top 10 PG when healthy, and they didn't draft Dunn. They're moving forward with him as their franchise PG. If Kings fans wouldn't want Brandon Knight as their starting PG, why would the Suns?
 
#19
It's a great lineup, but even if Phoenix was willing to trade Bledsoe for Gay and Batum, Lee and Anderson all wanted to sign in Sacramento it's just not going to be possible in terms of the salary cap.

Bledsoe makes slightly more than Gay so the caproom drops to a little over $32 million or so. Maxing out Batum costs around $22 million and Lee would eat up the remaining $10 million. Koufos is signed for $8 million and Anderson will likely commmand $15 or $16 million which the Kings couldn't absorb in a sign-and-trade.

I like Batum a lot but I'm not sure he deserves to be one of the highest paid players in the league but beyond that he seems committed to staying in Charlotte even with teams like the Knicks sniffing around.

That said, if the Suns WOULD trade Bledsoe for Gay I'd be all over that. Then the Kings could sign Anderson and Lee with caproom while still having enough cash to resign Curry and with Koufos as trade bait to address the SF spot if they wanted.
How many years remaining under contract do Gay and Bledsoe have? That could be a difference too.
 
#20
I would rather max out Batum and play him as a SG with some minutes at SF.

Gives us LOADS of flexibility. Great length, good shooter, good defender, can handle and pass. Can play SG and SF. It also gives us flexibility of trading Rudy to address other needs and still have a player who can play at and defend SFs of the league.

For example, trade Rudy for Bledsoe, sign Batum and Lee (with some $33 million under cap we should be able to do that). Sign and trade Anderson and use Kosta as the trade bait given that NO need a center since Asik is shot.

All of a sudden the line up is good defensively and offensively.

C: Cousins / WCS / Papagiannis
PF: WCS / Anderson / Labissiere
SF: Batum / Casspi / Butler
SG: Lee / McLemore / Richardson
PG: Bledsoe / Collison / I. Cousins

Still have an option of bringing back Acy and/or Curry.
I like this squad. If the Batum contract would not fit in the Cap I would roll with Casspi, Matt Barnes and Butler at SF without changing anything else that is also a good squad.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#21
Lost in the commotion of taking a 7"2 18 year old with 27 syllables to his name was the timely dismissal of the Italian Stallion whose performance last season resembled glue more than Nyquist.

I cannot emphasize the glee that infused my soul and every fiber of my being when announced Marco had been dispatched for the 22nd pick in the 2016 draft. It is NOT an exaggeration to say his play resembled two of the worst performing SGs in Kings history:

- Jimmer
- Stauskas

What do the aforementioned trio have in common? A propensity to miss wide open shots, to betray their reputation, AND get abused on defense on the perimeter, in screen and roll and anywhere or anytime else resistance is required.

In fairness to Marco, he did experience a mini-resurgence towards respectability when Karl belatedly inserted him in the starting line-up. But this uptick in play was short-lived, until the team and front office declared "NO MAS! NO MAS!" and sent him to the bench with FAKE injury so remainder of meaningless games could be used to see if Seth was a real NBA player.

To add insult to injury, Marco wanted to blame his sorry performance on system and locker room drama. In 25 years of following NBA basketball, never have I heard a player declare he doesn't like plays called for him, as if attempting to exploit his skill set was an affront to his sensibilities.

Then there is the contention he was misused. That the pass-and-cut system in San Antonio was misaligned with the pound-the-ball preference of Rondo until an assist could be had. There might be merit to this perspective until realization that Rondo and Marco spent very minutes on the court together, and his horrible stretch for the first five months of the season were in reserve capacity with DC running the point.

Then there is the notion that Marco is a spot-up shooter and the Kings did not ask him to play a spot-up role. I have yet to hear a viable argument in this regard since even if you are a spot-up shooter, you are still required to move without the ball, and work yourself off screens and cut back door to make yourself open in spots to receive the ball.

The bottom line is the guy had a bad year and it did not work out. Kudos to Vlade for realizing this and parting ways instead of suffering more of the same incompetence in 2016-17!

Now onto the brilliance of Vlade:

462 players are ranked for real plus/minus, a statistic that measures the effectiveness of a player adjusted for teammates and opponents. Marco ranked 450 out of 462 players, sharing company with mega-scrubs like Nik Stauskas, Ty Lawson, Nik Young and Andrea Barganini....

AND VLADE DUMPED HIS CONTRACT WITH $13M DUE AND GOT A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR HIM.

But it gets better than this, my fellow Kings fans, with a hat tip to James Ham and Inside Kings Podcast for this insight I am about to share....

The Kings are going to be targeting free agents SGs in less than one week. I can say with 100% certainty ONE of the guys we will be pursuing aggressively is:

  • Kent Bazemore
  • Allen Crabbe
  • Evan Fournier
  • Courtney Lee

My first choice would be Allen Crabbe....because I think he has ALL-STAR potential, but I want to focus on the last guy, Lee.

The Hornets have a bunch of cap space and a bunch of free agents they want to resign, namely, Al Jefferson, Batum, Marvin Williams AND Courtney Lee (not to mention Jeremy Lin and Tyler Hansborough).

Because the Kings DUMPED a $6 million contract onto the Hornets payroll at a position Lee plays, he becomes LESS of a priority in their re-signing efforts. This means if and when the Kings do target Lee as a their new starting SG, a guy Joerger coached and knows well, they are more apt to steal him away with minimal resistance.

A 3 year 24 million contract offer ought to get 'er done!!!

The first three names are more appealing to me than Lee, but Lee is a legit baller who defends, fights through screens (something Marco never did and Rondo rarely does) and plays the game the right way, and will a significant upgrade over Ben.

The bottom line is Vlade did well....strategic and timely and setting to steer the Titanic away from the iceberg. My eyes and ears could not have taken another year of Marco flailing and bailing and excuse making.

Share your comments on this trade below....agree or disagree.
The trade wasn't the issue. He did make a great move to trade Marco for the 22nd pick. Then trading Chriss for the 13 and 28 wasn't a bad move either. Everything was going great until the 13th pick. TERRIBLE pick. Hopefully 22nd and 28 picks end up being good.
 
#22
The trade wasn't the issue. He did make a great move to trade Marco for the 22nd pick. Then trading Chriss for the 13 and 28 wasn't a bad move either. Everything was going great until the 13th pick. TERRIBLE pick. Hopefully 22nd and 28 picks end up being good.
I didn't have Papagiannis on my draft board but that's because I didn't know anything about him. Few of the draft sites actually had much info either. He's 18, played in a low profile league and only did NBA workouts two weeks before the draft. We're all associating hype with talent.

I'm not saying Papagiannis will be a good pick but it's impossible right now to say he's a bad one.

And just as a minor point Vlade traded Chriss for #13, #28 AND Bogdan Bogdanovic who (if he comes over) sure looks to be an NBA contributor at SG.
 
#23
I like this squad. If the Batum contract would not fit in the Cap I would roll with Casspi, Matt Barnes and Butler at SF without changing anything else that is also a good squad.
I'd really like that team but I seriously doubt that the Suns deal Bledsoe for Gay straight up, even if Bledsoe is trying to force his way out and/or the Suns really want to move him this offseason. I think they'd get better offers.
 
#24
The trade wasn't the issue. He did make a great move to trade Marco for the 22nd pick. Then trading Chriss for the 13 and 28 wasn't a bad move either. Everything was going great until the 13th pick. TERRIBLE pick. Hopefully 22nd and 28 picks end up being good.
Except you don't have enough data or insight to come to this conclusion. Vlade has said Papa will contribute MORE in Year One than both Chriss (the 4th pick) and Bender (the 8th pick), that the 13th pick is more NBA ready than guys taken 5 and 9 spots ahead of him respectively. Who would you rather believe? The consensus analysis of guys that run mock draft web sites who got waived from their high school JV squad or actual former NBA player who played the center position to near All-Star level for over a decade? I am not saying Vlade is certain to be right, but I'd put my faith and confidence in him before Chad Ford and Jonathon Givony.
 
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#25
Great post...

I absolutely want Crabbe. He'd fit in great here. Then ship Koufos to Houston for Beverley and call it a day (deal works btw).

Bev
Crabbe
Rudy
Cuz
WCS

Playoffs.
I like that backcourt a lot, feisty and smart, but I also like stretching the floor with Ryan Anderson. I don't like two non-scorers in my starting lineup in Bev and WCS, though Willie showed a little more comfort level looking for his offense towards the last quarter of the season.

Regardless, this team would make a playoff run, 45-50 win potential:

PG: Beverly
SG: Crabbe
SF: Rudy
PF: Anderson
C: Cuz

Bench:
PG: DC
SG: Ben
SF: Omri
PF: Willie
C: Papa

Pretty pretty good.
 
#26
I really do think Marco was misused. Rondo called for so many floppy plays. But Marco is getting older. I like where we are at right now.
 
#27
Cousins is extremely turnover prone. If we are relying on him to be Vlade Divac then we are in trouble. He can pass but he's not a guy you want trying to get 5 assists a night.

If Beverley could pass at least as well as Collison I'd be all for it but we simply don't know. It's a pretty big gamble to take when there are basically no SG's or SF's on the team that can properly handle the ball.
Could be style of play

Cousins in the paint or at the high post making quick decisions, could reduce turnovers immediately. No reason for him to face up on every possession, trying to get by defenders as if he's Westbrook.
 
#28
Batum just closed a max deal with the Hornets (120/5 yr) so he is not available anymore. Beverley is not a fantastic PG in my opinion. He can defend and sometimes shoot the 3-pointer, but he is not a play maker. Therefore, I am less hot on him. I'm not too high on Anderson either. He will be too expensive for a bench player. I expect Willie to start. I think Casspi can fill the function of Anderson well enough with basically zero money. The money would be better spent on a top level PG. Fournier is interesting though. I wonder what his going price is?
 
#29
Fournier's FA price tag is infinity, since Magic are matching no matter what. Of course, they hope, no matter what doesn't equal his max, but it wouldn't deter them.