To tank or not to tank (split from game thread)

[VF21]

If we followed that self-righteous stuff we wouldn't have Skal/Bogdan now

Teams "tank" in professional sports if we are talking generally not playing the rotation that will maximize victory chances or alter their roster for losses in professional sports, because it's the prudent thing to do asset wise

It's also more prudent for your future to get your youth reps

1. We don't have Bogdan yet.

2. Skal isn't exactly Lebron James.

3. People are acting like it's the playoffs or tank. I guess I'm in the minority who thinks play the best you can and let the chips (or ping pong balls) fall where they may. Intentionally losing is cheating in my eyes. Either play to win or don't play. (And yes, I'm well aware that's a minority viewpoint.) The exception might be when circumstances beyond your control (such as injuries) have decimated your team to the point where you're not really competitive but you still play to win.

 

[VF21]

I don't think that necessarily means he is not coming.

I think it was a precautionary signing for Bogdan, in case he can't come to contract terms with the Kings this summer, he doesn't want to go without a 2017-18 job. It actually gives him more negotiating power when he talks to the Kings.

A $1 million buyout seems like a move to make sure he has a reasonable buyout come summer time.

I'm sure if the Kings throws 3 years at $7 or $8 million per year, he probably comes to the Kings.

Think about it. Would you be excited about to coming to this dumpster fire of a team right now? I think Bogdan signed that new agreement for 2017-18 with the definitely idea that unless the Kings come up with something really substantial, he's going to stay where he is. Also he doesn't have to commit to the Kings until after this year's draft. If he doesn't like what he sees, the Kings can hold his draft rights forever...it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[VF21]

Statement from Bogdan:

“I want to comment on a recent media report regarding me and the Sacramento Kings as I am receiving many questions from fans about my future. It is humbling and an honor for Vlade Divac to speak so highly of me as a basketball player. He is a Serbian basketball legend. To be clear though, I will not discuss the NBA or make a decision on my future until after my season with Fenerbahce is finished. I always live in the present day and love playing for Fenerbahce. I am only focused on doing everything I can to help Fenerbahce achieve the goals we set together as a team. Now let’s focus on our game against Zalgiris today!”

http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/bog...e-kings?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[ockingsfan]

Think about it. Would you be excited about to coming to this dumpster fire of a team right now? I think Bogdan signed that new agreement for 2017-18 with the definitely idea that unless the Kings come up with something really substantial, he's going to stay where he is. Also he doesn't have to commit to the Kings until after this year's draft. If he doesn't like what he sees, the Kings can hold his draft rights forever...it wouldn't be the first time.

How much do you think it will take to get him here? Does anyone know his European contract details?

 

[ockingsfan]

Statement from Bogdan:

“I want to comment on a recent media report regarding me and the Sacramento Kings as I am receiving many questions from fans about my future. It is humbling and an honor for Vlade Divac to speak so highly of me as a basketball player. He is a Serbian basketball legend. To be clear though, I will not discuss the NBA or make a decision on my future until after my season with Fenerbahce is finished. I always live in the present day and love playing for Fenerbahce. I am only focused on doing everything I can to help Fenerbahce achieve the goals we set together as a team. Now let’s focus on our game against Zalgiris today!”

http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/bog...e-kings?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Does anyone know when his season ends there?

He was quoted as saying he wants to win a Euro Championship before he leaves for the NBA a few months back. Any chance his team is in position to win the Euro Championship this season, so he can move on with his NBA career?

 

[MizzouKing]

Par for the course, though, don't you think? The front office can't even take a dive properly.

Who'dve thought Vlade would be in charge of a "poor flopping" organization?!?!?!?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Who'dve thought Vlade would be in charge of a "poor flopping" organization?!?!?!?

 

[VF21]

How much do you think it will take to get him here? Does anyone know his European contract details?

I don't think it's about the money. At this point, I think it's about worrying about how he might be treated once he gets here. Why would he want to sign with an organization that is being called a dumpster fire? If he has any hesitation at all, he can just wait and continue to play in Europe until things get settled here - if they ever do.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Actually, more likely our reward is that we end up out of the playoffs, but in the 11th or 12th spot where we also lose our pick. If your about results, then at this point in time, the team only benefits by keeping it's pick. The reward for anything else is zippo!

Exactly. I'm all for winning games if our young guys are the ones doing that. But there is absolutely no benefit from having vets who won't be here in 2018 winning us games.

 

[ockingsfan]

I don't think it's about the money. At this point, I think it's about worrying about how he might be treated once he gets here. Why would he want to sign with an organization that is being called a dumpster fire? If he has any hesitation at all, he can just wait and continue to play in Europe until things get settled here - if they ever do.

This is where Vlade needs to sell him that the DMC trade opens up an "opportunity" for him to come over and really establish himself as a top player in the NBA.

He needs to sell him on the fact that the DMC trade will open up the offense and allow him to shine, that the Kings will become Golden State Warriors East with him.

 

[VF21]

This is where Vlade needs to sell him that the DMC trade opens up an "opportunity" for him to come over and really establish himself as a top player in the NBA.

He needs to sell him on the fact that the DMC trade will open up the offense and allow him to shine, that the Kings will become Golden State Warriors East with him.

According to a PHXSUNSFAN in the Bogdan thread in the Personnel Moves forum, Bogdan has toyed with NBA teams since his right were first drafted by Phoenix. This could all be another case of a player using the Kings to bolster their contract elsewhere. He may not have any real desire to ever come to the NBA. He's seen what it's like to play against NBA players - and he didn't look that spectacular. Big fish in a little pond vs. little fish in a really big pond?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

According to a PHXSUNSFAN in the Bogdan thread in the Personnel Moves forum, Bogdan has toyed with NBA teams since his right were first drafted by Phoenix. This could all be another case of a player using the Kings to bolster their contract elsewhere. He may not have any real desire to ever come to the NBA. He's seen what it's like to play against NBA players - and he didn't look that spectacular. Big fish in a little pond vs. little fish in a really big pond?

The Kings have been through this before. :: coughbodirogacough ::

 

[ockingsfan]

According to a PHXSUNSFAN in the Bogdan thread in the Personnel Moves forum, Bogdan has toyed with NBA teams since his right were first drafted by Phoenix. This could all be another case of a player using the Kings to bolster their contract elsewhere. He may not have any real desire to ever come to the NBA. He's seen what it's like to play against NBA players - and he didn't look that spectacular. Big fish in a little pond vs. little fish in a really big pond?

That doesn't seem to be true if his recently signed contract info is correct.

If that was the case, he would have signed a big money, long term contract (i.e. 3 or 4 years) with a big buyout to stay with his team.

But the news coming out is that he signed a one year deal (2017-2018) with a reasonable buyout. It would be like an NBA star in his prime giving up a multi-year contract for a one year deal, doesn't seem likely.

If he truly wasn't coming over and was using the Kings to get a better deal in Europe, a one year extension, doesn't seem like leverage versus the Kings potential 3-4 year deal.

Just for financial security reasons alone, he would have signed a 3-4 year contract to safe guard him from injury, if he didn't really want to come to the NBA.

It looks to me like he is opening the door to the Kings, and saying, look, you need to make the deal worth it for me to come, otherwise, I can stay in Europe. Without a Europe deal in place, the Kings would try and low ball him.

 

[ockingsfan]

The Kings have been through this before. :: coughbodirogacough ::

To be honest. Bodiroga never had any intention of coming to the NBA and everyone knew it. That is why he slipped so far in the draft. He was always a pipe dream to the Kings

 

[VF21]

The Kings have been through this before. :: coughbodirogacough ::

See post #92.

 

[andjel]

Don't underestimate the suck-titude of the teams below us in the draft.

No underestimation
Besides Nets, Suns and Lakers, and lets toss in Sixers just due to their tanking experience, the rest of the teams would have to put an earnest effort to what will come natural to our team - race to the bottom.
Which one of the other teams would you say has worse talent than us right now?

 

[ockingsfan]

No underestimation
Besides Nets, Suns and Lakers, and lets toss in Sixers just due to their tanking experience, the rest of the teams would have to put an earnest effort to what will come natural to our team - race to the bottom.
Which one of the other teams would you say has worse talent on the roster for the rest of the season?

It's not just talent. Tanking has really become an art and the ways that some of the teams are finding ways to lose, you can never be too comfortable that you can land in the bottom 8, come draft lotto time.

I am hoping that some of the more veteran teams, like Portland, Dallas, and even Minnesota will surpass us in the draft ladder.

But one can never be too sure, so we must take it upon ourselves and play the Kids a lot more and make sure we keep our Lottery pick this year.

 

[andjel]

It's not just talent. Tanking has really become an art and the ways that some of the teams are finding ways to lose, you can never be too comfortable that you can land in the bottom 8, come draft lotto time.

I am hoping that some of the more veteran teams, like Portland, Dallas, and even Minnesota will surpass us in the draft ladder.

But one can never be too sure, so we must take it upon ourselves and play the Kids a lot more and make sure we keep our Lottery pick this year.

Tanking is art if you have talent. Not applicable here.
It is not that we have veterans that would bring us over the top either.

One Kings loss and one other teams win (out of 20+ remaining games) and not only Portland/Dallas/Minny but also Pelicans and Knicks will be ahead of us. That would make us 6th from the bottom. I expect us to be bottom 7 by the end of next week (we play Jazz, Spurs, Wizards and Nuggets twice).

 

[VF21]

Tanking is art if you have talent. Not applicable here.
It is not that we have veterans that would bring us over the top either.

One Kings loss and one other teams win (out of 20+ remaining games) and not only Portland/Dallas/Minny but also Pelicans and Knicks will be ahead of us. That would make us 6th from the bottom. I expect us to be bottom 7 by the end of next week (we play Jazz, Spurs, Wizards and Nuggets twice).

Be still, my heart.

 

[ParniValjak]

I don't think that necessarily means he is not coming.

I think it was a precautionary signing for Bogdan, in case he can't come to contract terms with the Kings this summer, he doesn't want to go without a 2017-18 job. It actually gives him more negotiating power when he talks to the Kings.

A $1 million buyout seems like a move to make sure he has a reasonable buyout come summer time.

I'm sure if the Kings throws 3 years at $7 or $8 million per year, he probably comes to the Kings.

That logic makes no sense to me. He signs with the team to have a better leverage? What if Fener turns around and says we are not releasing him from his contract? Not far fetched given he is one of their key players.

Even if what you are saying has some merit, why would Bogdan agree to a contract that has a $1 million buy out given that the NBA teams are only allowed to pay up to $500K for a buyout and the player pays the rest? Why would he put himself up for a $500K to come out of his pocket?

I think this is a clear indication where Bogdan wants to be next year. I know he wants to win a Euroleague title and if Fener doesn't get it this year, he has another change next year.

 

[ParniValjak]

I don't think it's about the money. At this point, I think it's about worrying about how he might be treated once he gets here. Why would he want to sign with an organization that is being called a dumpster fire? If he has any hesitation at all, he can just wait and continue to play in Europe until things get settled here - if they ever do.

Or his rights get traded to another team.

 

[ockingsfan]

That logic makes no sense to me. He signs with the team to have a better leverage? What if Fener turns around and says we are not releasing him from his contract? Not far fetched given he is one of their key players.

Even if what you are saying has some merit, why would Bogdan agree to a contract that has a $1 million buy out given that the NBA teams are only allowed to pay up to $500K for a buyout and the player pays the rest? Why would he put himself up for a $500K to come out of his pocket?

I think this is a clear indication where Bogdan wants to be next year. I know he wants to win a Euroleague title and if Fener doesn't get it this year, he has another change next year.

If he has a buyout clause, the euro team cannot just take it away if he decides it's time to try the NBA. Once it's in the contract, it's in the contract.

Secondly, of course the team demanded a buyout clause to protect themselves if he decides to leave.

If he gets 4 years and $28 mil contract from the kings, a $500K buyout out of his own pocket is nothing. He would gain that much back by demanding a higher annual salary to come over.

Look, if he has no contract, he has no leverage in negotiations with the Kings. With a contract in hand in Europe, he has a lot more leverage to get a better deal from the Kings. He will easily make back the money he loses in the buyout. Agents are smart, they know how to work the system to get the most for their clients.

 

[ockingsfan]

That logic makes no sense to me. He signs with the team to have a better leverage? What if Fener turns around and says we are not releasing him from his contract? Not far fetched given he is one of their key players.

Even if what you are saying has some merit, why would Bogdan agree to a contract that has a $1 million buy out given that the NBA teams are only allowed to pay up to $500K for a buyout and the player pays the rest? Why would he put himself up for a $500K to come out of his pocket?

I think this is a clear indication where Bogdan wants to be next year. I know he wants to win a Euroleague title and if Fener doesn't get it this year, he has another change next year.

Another thing about having a contract for next year is that he at least has some security, in case of injury. They are still in mid season right now and if he gets injured, he would have no salary for next year.

He won't be able to sign a contract in the NBA until the new CBA goes into effect in July.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

he saw that we have 6 shooting guards and no boogie

https://twitter.com/boogiecousins/status/767492058718187520

 

[jcassio]

What a depressing thread!
"We're so bad!"
"No, were terrible!"
"But we might not be bad enough!"
"We're not even good enough to be really bad!"
"We should be better at being bad!"
"Can't we do anything right?"
"Guess not. Because we're so bad!"

 

[Jimbob]

Portland beat OKC today which bodes well for the tank mode. nbadraft.net has updated having us take Tatum with our own 6th pick and Ntilikina with NO's 9th pick. I could live with that, and it might even save Vlades arse.

 

[Krunker]

We don't have to try to tank, the guys should play to win and we'll probably lose a majority of the games anyway. I know that sounds negative but it's really a win! With guys trying and hopefully improving the games are watchable and we hopefully end up in a good draft position.

 

[ockingsfan]

That logic makes no sense to me. He signs with the team to have a better leverage? What if Fener turns around and says we are not releasing him from his contract? Not far fetched given he is one of their key players.

Even if what you are saying has some merit, why would Bogdan agree to a contract that has a $1 million buy out given that the NBA teams are only allowed to pay up to $500K for a buyout and the player pays the rest? Why would he put himself up for a $500K to come out of his pocket?

I think this is a clear indication where Bogdan wants to be next year. I know he wants to win a Euroleague title and if Fener doesn't get it this year, he has another change next year.

Here is an article on the salaries for the top Euro basketball players. Bodgan made about 1.3 mil in 2015. The top player made 3.4 mil per year:

https://www.talkbasket.net/salaries

You can not honestly tell me that if Vlade gave Bodgan a 4 year, $24-28 million contract, that would give him and his family financial security for the rest of their lives, he wouldn't come to the NBA? It would take him playing for 15 years in Europe, to make what he could make in 4 years in the NBA.

If he passes up now, he would be 26 years old before the start of the 2018 season and he would go from potential star player, to rotation player in the eyes of teams. That could cost him $100 million in the long run.

Personally, I think there is no way he passes the opportunity to play in the NBA this year, with the contracts being passed out and rookie scale no longer holding back his salary. If he comes here and fails, he can always go back to Europe to finish his career.

 

[andjel]

Here is an article on the salaries for the top Euro basketball players. Bodgan made about 1.3 mil in 2015. The top player made 3.4 mil per year:

https://www.talkbasket.net/salaries

You can not honestly tell me that if Vlade gave Bodgan a 4 year, $24-28 million contract, that would give him and his family financial security for the rest of their lives, he wouldn't come to the NBA? It would take him playing for 15 years in Europe, to make what he could make in 4 years in the NBA.

If he passes up now, he would be 26 years old before the start of the 2018 season and he would go from potential star player, to rotation player in the eyes of teams. That could cost him $100 million in the long run.

Personally, I think there is no way he passes the opportunity to play in the NBA this year, with the contracts being passed out and rookie scale no longer holding back his salary. If he comes here and fails, he can always go back to Europe to finish his career.

I always wanted to know how things go with salaries in NBA.

6mil/year looks much more than 1.3 mil/year.

However...
Take half off the top for all taxes involved... 3mil/year. European tag already took that into the account.
This is still double, but getting closer.

1.3 mil is in Euros signed 2 years ago, at that time it was 1.7 mil USD. Probably next contract (in a year) will be adjusted accordingly and higher anyway.

And then- the expenses
Do the NBA players pay for trainer/health/facilities...? I would really like to know if there are other expenses they have.
Of course, there is also moving across the world, cost of living, provided housing/car....

He would still make more money, but maybe not that much more to be a major incentive.

 

[ockingsfan]

I always wanted to know how things go with salaries in NBA.

6mil/year looks much more than 1.3 mil/year.

However...
Take half off the top for all taxes involved... 3mil/year. European tag already took that into the account.
This is still double, but getting closer.

1.3 mil is in Euros signed 2 years ago, at that time it was 1.7 mil USD. Probably next contract (in a year) will be adjusted accordingly and higher anyway.

And then- the expenses
Do the NBA players pay for trainer/health/facilities...? I would really like to know if there are other expenses they have.
Of course, there is also moving across the world, cost of living, provided housing/car....

He would still make more money, but maybe not that much more to be a major incentive.

Here is an article on income tax rates in European countries. They are pretty high too, if not higher than the USA.

https://qz.com/743249/guess-which-country-pays-the-highest-taxes-in-europe/