Time to panic?

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by sterö, Nov 15, 2017.

?

Time to panic?

  1. Yes, trade everybody and start the rebuild again

    5 vote(s)
    9.6%
  2. No, just growing pains

    39 vote(s)
    75.0%
  3. Changing the coaching staff will fix many issues

    8 vote(s)
    15.4%
  1. sterö

    sterö Active Member

    Losing by 40 something to a 2-12 team is unacceptable. I was very positive on the youngsters of this team, but I'm starting to ask myself what is wrong? They show signs of taking a step forward, just to take 6 steps backwards afterwards.

    Is it coaching, is it heart, or is it skill? How is it possible that we get smashed in the mouth every single road game, no matter how good or bad our opponent is?
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  2. Vladizzle

    Vladizzle Well-Known Member

    We can't be running an offense that focuses solely on big men - on a guard heavy team, with poor big men. Especially it that focus is mainly going to be through Zach Randolph.

    There's plenty of issues with the team..young and inexperienced obviously being one, but when the players continue to get worse the more they learn the offense and the drop one by 40 to a 2-12 team has to fall plenty on the coaching staff.
  3. Iced Espresso

    Iced Espresso Well-Known Member

    Too early.

    Let me see how it goes with Denver & the Lakers coming up first.

    Still going to the game vs Portland, they won when I went to see OKC, maybe we'll scrap out something watchable.
  4. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Growing pains.

    Nevermind my tongue in cheek sig at the moment haha.

    If all our kids still look like poop by the end of the year, I might be on "team Joerger sucks", but for now I'm trying to be realistic about the rawness of some of our prospects (Fox, Skal), the mid to low ceilings of others (Buddy, Bogs), and the busts (WCSzingis).

    Fingers crossed for a healthy Giles and a high draft pick. We were never going to be anything but a cellar dweller this season.
    kingsfan1984, NewArena and k_dubb90 like this.
  5. k_dubb90

    k_dubb90 Well-Known Member

    Not time to panic cause I expect to suck, but it’s forsure time to not even get excited or look forward to a game
  6. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    But is it really? We're not talking 2 or 3 games here. We're talking 14. Just a couple short of 20% of the season.

    While the poor record isn't something to be concerned over, the consistent noncompetitiveness and losing by 46 to another awful team certainly is. How many games have they started out down 10-0 (or worse)?

    While every young team is different, we should at least be seeing some flashes here and there. And we really haven't.

    Part of the problem is, most of the youngins we're counting on are averaging 24 min or less per game. There's just too many players playing and not much of a chance to get in a rhythm or gel. But on the flip side, some of these guys aren't exactly earning extra time.

    The most disappointing thing to me, by far, has been the abysmal defense. Especially when the teams head coaches is supposed to be known more as a defensive coach. The offense is the worst in the league, but at least some of that can be excused by the young player excuse. A kid like Fox for example is only 19 and will certainly improve his shot and playmaking ability as he develops. But defense is largely about attitude, effort and desire. The fact that we're not seeing any of that is inexcusable.
  7. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    Oh, and before anyone mentions canning the coach .... let's not even go there. With all the coaching changes the franchise has made over the past decade and more so in recent years, they just can't afford to even consider doing it again any time soon. They're married to Joerger for at least a couple more seasons. They're just gonna have to figure it out with him.
    kingsfan1984 and KingsFanGER like this.
  8. QoooooQ

    QoooooQ Active Member

    Not panic, but I have the same long-term concerns that I expressed immediately after the Cousins trade. We're in year five under Ranadive's ownership and there has been no progress. The people in charge have not yet built anything, so it is misleading to call this a "rebuild". The last time a competitive team and culture was being built in Sacramento was 20 years ago. Our current front office traded away a top 15 player without receiving even a top 75 player in return. Their draft record and free agent record are mediocre at best, their trade record is terrible. They are due for a lucky draft eventually, but I am skeptical about their ability to build on that luck. The Wolves look set to make the playoffs this year, which will leave the Kings with the longest active playoff drought, 12 seasons after this one. In 2021 the Kings will tie the all-time record held by the Clippers (15). Every 30-40 point blowout loss will make it harder to find customers wanting to see the games. Voices will be raised for canning the coach, but each new coaching hire will delay team development by at least a year. I'm not familiar with the Kings' finances, but I am concerned about how long this "rebuilding" act can remain profitable.
    gunks and Larry David like this.
  9. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    It's still early, but if this platooning continues it's really squeezes the Kings path forward into a very small window of opportunity. If I'm Vlade I first go to Joerger and somehow say "cut the ****" in as nice a way possible. But if it proves to be so, correcting a damaging situation is never a bad thing. The Kings are rebuilding, you basically need someone who can identify his best horses and then ride them. "Great" coaches sometimes find ways to complicate that process because of the need to feel as if they are the catalyst. If that's your coach during your rebuild, they have to go, and the sooner the better. It's still too early to fully judge what's going on here, but Joerger already drew a bit of a line with his post games comments. Now the next shoe is how the players respond. I expect them to come out swinging the next game regardless because they are capable.

    I would hate to see Vlade not feel empowered to make a beneficial move for any reason or because of some outside pressure. There isn't time for that. This is where manufacturing assets is key because you have way too many young players, no real cap space to maneuver with in the interim, and no pick after next year.
  10. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    the Kings DESPERATELY need a franchise player. There's absolutely nothing to build off of right now. Fox's offense is a hit or miss right now. He struggles scoring in the 1/2 court because he has no reliable 3pt jumper. Skal's non-existent skills outside of his smooth jumpshot have landed him in the doghouse. He's a boom or bust player with no in-between.

    a lot is going to fall on this 2018 draft. we need to draft a franchise player. we need to find our own AD/KAT/Simmons. it's the only way this franchise can be saved.

    adding to this, if the Kings don't have at minimum, a top 5 pick, I'd be forever done with this franchise.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  11. Vladizzle

    Vladizzle Well-Known Member

    If we had a franchise player they would still be deferring to Zbo, Skal, and Koufos and be limited to 20 points max on his best night.
  12. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    It's time to bench guys who have shown no interest in playing. I would start with WCS who made Dedmon an All-Star. Give me a frakking break. I've had it with Stein. He doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. Bench him and have him watch. That's all he does anyway - watch. The Kings need to scour the G league or spend a 2nd rounder to get a big guy who actually has a passion for the game and who doesn't mind doing the dirty work in order to win. The 6th pick in the draft is an embarrassment to the entire organization.

    Joerger said in the post game that there are a lot of nice guys on the Kings, meaning that he needs more tough and not as much nice. Well, you better include yourself in that assessment, coach. Start being tough and not so nice. It all starts at the top. You've seen Stein prance around since the beginning of the season and have done nothing to remedy the situation. It's time to remedy the situation.
    John Galt, gunks, Kingsfan23 and 2 others like this.
  13. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    I need to see some semblance of an offense that is actually geared to our players' strengths. WCS in the high post is either stupid, experimentation, or both.
    Vladizzle likes this.
  14. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Forget the damned offense. They got destroyed by a bottom dweller not because of the offense - they got a TON of open shots. They lost because they soft and lazy on defense. No heart, no passion, just barely going through the motions. Stein is a joke and it has nothing whatsoever to do with how the coach is using him on offense. It doesn't matter whether he plays high post, low post or no post. He's lazy. He only really expends the calories in limited stints when he thinks he absolutely has to.
    dude12 and Nokidding like this.
  15. Vladizzle

    Vladizzle Well-Known Member

    Maybe we can send Dave on a permanent vacation and try having Vince and the assistants coach?
  16. k_dubb90

    k_dubb90 Well-Known Member

    Just throw papaG in there I don’t think he can be any worse than skal or willie
    John Galt, gunks, SLAB and 1 other person like this.
  17. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    I don’t know about panic, but fans should be very concerned that the team regularly gives very poor effort before Thanksgiving. That’s very abnormal this early. Abnormal even for teams in a tear down/ rebuild.

    When that happens for prolonged periods, you’ve mostly got losers playing loser basketball and that really impacts a team’s ability to develop players.

    Fans and media say these are the normal symptoms of a SUCCESSFUL rebuild are wrong.
  18. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I'm a PapaG defender and I don't mind being patient with the guy but he is most definitely worse than both of those guys. Remember John Collins getting alley oop after alley oop at the end of the game last night? That was because Papa couldn't defend the pick n roll to save his life. I want to see him get more minutes as well just for sheer development reasons but he isn't going to have a positive impact at the moment.
  19. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Were the OKC and Philly games really that long ago:) Seriously folks we knew this team was going to win very few games. The leap from NCAA to the NBA is a large chasm. The Young players need seasoning as in a couple of seasons before that can be judged.

    The Kings need to allow Joerger and Staff at least the rest of this season and the next before passing any judgements. The last thing the Kings need is another knee jerk replacement of the Coaching staff. The coaching carousel has to stop.

    Yes these last few games have been ugly. The Players shot 35% and were 6 for 28 from the three point line for 21%. The Kings were out rebounded 53 to 29. I do not think the offensive strategy or rotations is causing that. Players new to the NBA, new to the NBA travel schedule and new to each other is causing that.

    I am buckled up and prepare for more of this. Find the little things the team has done well and appreciate it. ZBo was balling in Atlanta.
    thingfish and parker like this.
  20. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I don't think it is time to PANIC yet.

    It is clear that Coach Joeger is still experimenting with his rotation, as he is basically still playing 11-13 players every night.

    The losses are going to mount, which is not necessarily a bad thing at this point of the season. I kinda see it as a cushion of losses, that will help us land a top 5 pick in next summer's draft.

    I fully expect the team to come around with a much tighter and set rotation come January. And I expect this team to be playing more competitive games and getting more wins come February through April.

    If by February, this team still looks like a dumpster fire, then I think it is time to PANIC. ;)
  21. fansinceday1

    fansinceday1 Well-Known Member

    I don't see people complaining about the loses. Its the way they lose. Its their penchant for laying down right from the get go and putting games out of reach before they have even broken a sweat.

    If we lost to golden state by 46 there wouldn't be this amount of hand wringing. The kings got rolled by a bad bad team. Dominated.
    ESP47 likes this.
  22. Sac.Kings

    Sac.Kings Well-Known Member

    Well we are complete trash and have a tough time scoring with an even tougher time defending. I would play the kids and send Zbo home. I haven't watched a game in the past 2 weeks or so, just can't stand watching us feed a 37 year old post player. Fox has been a bit of a disappointment at times too, as much as it pains me to say. Nothing really to be excited about.
    206Fan likes this.
  23. Larry89

    Larry89 Disgruntled Kings Fan

    No excuse for lack of effort, Kosta was beating everyone down the damn court last night
  24. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Active Member

    Don't we do this every year? It's not time to panic yet, and then it eventually comes time to panic?

    Anyway, the rotation may not be consistent, but the offense is. We may lose by 15 instead of 30 sometimes if the effort or rotation improve or become more consistent, but I'm fully expecting the same sets through February, and if that's the case it's not going to get better. I'd love to be wrong.
  25. pdxKingsFan

    pdxKingsFan Well-Known Member

    For nearly 10 years since the Musselman experiment we've had folks clamoring for a full rebuild. We got one. There was no reason to have any expectations above 20 wins this season yet some folks thought Hill and Zbo were going to push us into 30-40 win no-man's land and screamed their heads off about it. That apparently hasn't happened. And now the sky is falling.

    Oh, the life of a Kings fan.
    ppine and King Baller like this.
  26. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    All this talk of franchise players. We TRADED our franchise for the foreseeable future when we sent cousins off. What did everyone expect ?

    We are a project team with nice young pieces. This is going to take a few years people. Nab a high draft pick and add another high level piece and then 3 years from there...

    Dont worry we'll have MLS soccer in Sac soon and another up and coming young team to root for
    pdxKingsFan likes this.
  27. kingjatt

    kingjatt Well-Known Member

    I hate the idea of dumping another coach but Jeorger is losing me day by day. He does not come across as an innovative mind or someone who can actually design a system to a teams strengths. We basically run his same Memphis and 16 Kings sets (built for reading and reacting out of the high post for slower older rosters) with a young and fast roster. At least guys like Brett Brown and Brad Stevens designed systems around their losing teams to create some excitement while tanking.

    My strategy as an armchair coach for this already lost season: Instruct ZBO, Hill Kofous, Willie to almost never shoot (putbacks,lobs only) just rebound, pass constantly SPRINT to set screens and recreens to set up the young guns while playing extremely physical defense (ZBO, Hill, Temple play no more than 15 mins a game so make them count on defense.) Oh and put Carter in a suit.

    Fast break at every chance, give Jackson,Hield, Malachi, Fox even Skal an unlimited green light from 3. In fact tell them there minutes will be cut if they do not shoot. With so many shots going up Willie has a 10 rebound minimum or Papa gets all of his minutes the next game.

    Anyone who passes up a decent look for 3 or a jumper or doesnt push the ball on a miss or turnover gets punished.

    Half court offense is simple, high screen and roll with Willie/Skal/Papa rolling hard for lobs or popping out for jumpers if needed depending on the coverage. If the other team switches attack the matchup and break down the defense to finish or swing it out for a 3 (or a closeout attack) or get benched.

    Pick and Roll ball handlers will be a commitee of Fox/Buddy/Malachi/Mason/JJ.

    Shot attempt leaders should be: Fox,Buddy,Malachi,Skal in that order.

    Who disagrees that this would not be fun to watch even while we lose? Lots of 3s and hoop attacks/dunks instead of watching Zbo late clock iso or Lmao watching KK and Willie set up the offense from the high post.

    I do not buy the "these guys are not talented at all" excuse. These guys are very talented and work extremely hard!

    If you watch the games you can see how outdated Joergers system is. It just does not fit this new style of player who is not built or tought to play this way. On top of not being fun to watch.

    Set some rules but SIMPLIFY the system and let these young stalions run.

    In this lost season FORCE the young guys to play free and shoot as much as they want.

    So whose up for letting me be the coach? :D
    Joshoua and fansinceday1 like this.
  28. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    I don't think it's time to panic. I do think there is a very big issue of no one on the team knowing what their role is, how long their leash is with Coach Joerger, and a complete lack of confidence. Luckily, all of these issues are things that can be fixed, but Joerger needs to stop trying to get ZBo to the all star game and start running an actual NBA offense. This also means no more icing players by sticking to his wacky rotations. No more giving guys minutes that don't deserve it just because of how much they cost or how much you don't want them to be a bust (WCS/Hill). Encourage ball movement, encourage the perimeter offense, and please give Fox a green light. The only way he'll solve his shooting woe's is by encouraging him to take any shot he feels he can make.
    kingjatt likes this.
  29. fansinceday1

    fansinceday1 Well-Known Member

    Now that team would interest me. I won't hold out much hope for Joeger actually doing something like that.
  30. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Pick and roll offense isn’t much to ask for in this era watch gamesbto night it will be P&R after P&R

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