The Teams of the Great Centers Study #2 -- The '83 Sixers

If you swapped Boogie and Gay for '83 Moses and Dr. J, how many games would the Sixers have won?


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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Welcome to Study #2 of The Teams of the Great Centers series (Study #1 may be found here: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/the-teams-of-the-great-centers-study-1-the-96-spurs.60134/ ).

Study #2 is an ambitious comparison, and also the oldest team I will be looking at. Not only is it at the dawn of the modern NBA era (especially 3pt shooting etc.), but it is at the dawn of my own NBA awakening as well (one of my very first NBA debates was out on a playground jungle gym at recess with 5 or 6 other kids arguing over whether the Celtics, Sixers, or Lakers were going to win the title this year -- and no, none of us had a ****ing clue what we were talking about. I imagine it a lot like a Kings front office pow wow today -- lots of nuh uhs! and yeah huhs!).

Still the '83 Sixers were a great team (as in 65 win, won the title, considered one of the GOAT teams great) which AGAIN had a notably similar structure to the one we have right now. So let's break them down:

Study #2 -- The 1982-83 Sixers
Team Record: 65-17 (Won NBA Finals)
Coach: Billy Cunningham
Pace: 15th of 23
Off Rating: 5th of 23
Def Rating: 5th of 23

A) Roster and Roles
C - Moses Malone (#1 option)
PF - Mark Iavaroni (roleplaying spot starter) / Bobby Jones (defensive ace)
SF - Julius Erving (#2 option)
SG - Andrew Toney (shooter/#3 option)
PG - Maurice Cheeks (distributor/defender)

B) Frontcourt
Moses won the MVP that season, Dr. J was aging but still potent. Iavoroni was a short minute defensive type roleplayer, but the real defense came off the bench in the person of Bobby Jones as a Kirilenko type 6th man. The structure was eyepoppingly similar to our own, minus the Kirilenko type off the bench. Instead we've got a Derrick Williams or Carl Landry. But of all the legendary centers, Cuz might rememble a more skilled Moses more than any other. And Rudy is as close to a poor man's version of the gliding pterodactyl that was Dr. J as any player currently in the league. For purposes of the stats comparison I'm going to treat JT as our main starter this season:

Consider '83 Sixers starting frontcourt:
C - MMalone: 37.5min 24.5pts (.578TS%) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk 3.4TO
PF - Iavoroni: 20.2min 5.1pts (.502TS%) 4.1reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.7TO
SF - JErving: 33.6min 21.4pts (.566TS%) 6.8reb 3.7ast 1.6stl 1.8blk 2.7TO

Kings '15 starting frontcourt:
C - DeCousins: 33.9min 23.7pts (.551TS%) 12.3reb 3.2ast 1.4stl 1.6blk 4.2TO
PF - Thompsn: 24.4min 5.8pts (.506TS%) 6.3reb 0.9ast 0.4stl 0.7blk 1.0TO
SF - RudyGay: 35.5min 20.7pts (.552TS%) 5.9reb 3.7ast 1.0stl 0.6blk 2.7TO

I mean...the argument isn't that Cuz/Rudy/JT ARE the '83 Sixers frontcourt, but that's as close as you are going to find in the modern day. Not quite as efficient, but that team won 65 games and the title. Even a sloppier modern version should be able to reach half that many.

C) Backcourt
The huge gap comes in the backcourt, where the Sixers started two All Star caliber guards, and we...do not. Even there though Toney's role though was kind of an idealized version of what Ben's biggest supporters dream of for him. The designated shooter/spacer and #3 weapon. We absolutely do not have anything like Mo Cheeks, both a great defender and a pass first floor general...but if we had traded for Rondo we might have had something at least in the ballpark. The Sixers, like the Spurs team looked at last time, featured a backcourt who could both pass and create to help the frontcourt stars. Cheeks and Toney combined for 11.4 assists/gm. Ben and DC? 7.1.

D) Main Rotation Roster Comparison
C Moses Malone (Age: 27 Exp: 8yrs) = DeMarcus Cousins (Age: 24 Exp: 4yrs)
PF/SF Mike Iavaroni (Age: 26 Exp: R) = Jason Thompson (Age: 28 Exp: 6yrs)
SF Julius Erving (Age: 32 Exp: 11yrs) = Rudy Gay (Age: 28 Exp: 8yrs)
SG Andrew Toney (Age: 25 Exp: 2yrs) = Ben McLemore (Age: 21 Exp: 1yr)
PG Maurice Cheeks (Age: 26 Exp: 4yrs) = Darren Collison (Age: 27 Exp: 5yrs)
SF/PF Bobby Jones (Age: 31 Exp: 8yrs) = Derrick Williams (Age: 23 Exp: 3yrs)
C Clemon Johnson (Age: 26 Exp: 4yrs) = Carl Landry (Age: 31 Exp: 7yrs)
SG Clint Richardson (Age: 26 Exp: 3yrs) = Omri Casspi (Age: 26 Exp: 5yrs)
PG Franklin Edwards (Age: 23 Exp: 1yrs) = Sessions (Age:28) McCallum(Age:23) Miller (Age:38)

E) 1982-83 SixersMain Rotation Stats
Malone 78gms 37.5min 24.5pts (,501 .000 .767) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk 3.4TO
JErving 72gms 33.6min 21.4pts (.517 .286 .759) 6.8reb 3.7ast 1.6stl 1.8blk 2.7TO
AToney 81gms 30.5min 19.7pts (.501 .289 .788) 2.8reb 4.5ast 1.0stl 0.2blk 3.3TO
Cheeks 79gms 31.2min 12.5pts (.542 .167 .754) 2.6reb 6.9ast 2.3stl 0.4blk 2.3TO
BJones 74gms 23.6min 9.0pts (.543 .000 .793) 4.6reb 1.9ast 1.1stl 1.2blk 1.5TO
Richard 77gms 22.8min 7.6pts (.463 .000 .640) 3.2reb 2.2ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 1.3TO
Johnson 32gms 21.8min 6.8pts (.500 .000 .586) 6.4reb 0.8ast 0.5stl 0.9blk 1.1TO
Edwards 81gms 15.6min 6.7pts (.472 .000 .761) 1.0reb 2.7ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 1.4TO
Iavaroni 80gms 20.2min 5.1pts (.462 .000 .690) 4.1reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.7TO

Conclusion: So How Did They Win 65 While We'll Win Sub-30?
1) DEFENSE. DEFENSE! Do you hear me Vivek? D-E-F-E-N-S-E!!! Hey, look! A pattern! The Sixers were 5th in Def Rating that season. We, as always, are now down to 29th, with all of the damage being done in the past 3 months. So just take our roster, add a young Rondo and AK47 from his 6th man years, then sprinkle in some defensive minded roleplayers and a coach who cares about that stuff and you might begin to get into the same realm. Oh, and...

2) Paceliness is next to godliness...UNLESS you have the best post center in the game. Throughout this era the Sixers played at one of the slowest paces in the league, and amazingly enough still produced legendary teams slowing it down and pounding you to dust inside. Of course the league played faster overall in those days -- Gerbil really was born in the wrong era -- and so they were still playing faster than us this year.

3) Continuity. This was not the first rodeo for this Sixers team. It was the first one with their shiny new franchise center, but they had been battling with the Celtics for Conference supremacy for years by this time. They were not an old team, in fact beyond their great frontcourt, they were a young one. But the key guys were old vets, and everybody had been to the dance before.

4) Health: this too will become a consistent theme in these threads, it probably should almsot go wihtout saying. None of the 5 players that made them go missed more than 10 games.

5) The Talent Gap, Especially in The Backcourt. The Sixers were powered by 5 great players, we've got 2 1/2. Its why despite the real similarities in the frontcourt comparing these two teams can only point you at what you need to improve. The Sixers had everything we had up front, but as mentioned, it would be as if we went into the offseason and traded for young Rondo, 6th man Kirilenko, and maybe a young Ray Allen or pre-injury Eric Gordon or some such.

I chose this team to look at because of the nearly identical structure, or fantasized structure of the C/PF/SF/SG. All the roles are the same, many of the traits are the same. Just the talent (especially at SG) is different. But 35-40 games different? Again, we have all the details wrong though. There are no ace defenders to round that out. We have created a complete mess out of an entire season desperately fighting against a slower pace, etc. So I'll again ask in the poll, how would Boogie and Rudy do if they were swapped in in place of Moses and Dr. J that year. And if they would do well...what kind of indictment is that of the rest of our organization?
 
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#2
I like the concept of your articles, even though it's obviously impossible to compare different teams over different eras, etc.

The biggest points you bring up are:
* The guards on this team are the problem. Until the Kings get SERIOUS help (potentially a starting PG AND SG are needed to compare to these teams) there, they cannot be competitive in a guard-dominated league like today.

* How would the 76ers be with Cousins and Rudy?
Well, I'm a huge fan of Demarcus, but to be brutally honest about his shortcomings:
He's never proven he can be clutch in close, competitive games.
He's hardly ever even played in any competitive games.
He's taken one game-deciding shot in his career.
Who knows what he would do in a pressure-packed string of games for the championship? He could just as easily get himself thrown out as he is to bully people around and be dominant.

And Rudy? I have little faith in him in a clutch situation like the playoffs bring. He hasn't proven to me yet that he can step up and make critical plays in key games.

It'd sure be great to see them get a chance, someday.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
I like the concept of your articles, even though it's obviously impossible to compare different teams over different eras, etc.

The biggest points you bring up are:
* The guards on this team are the problem. Until the Kings get SERIOUS help (potentially a starting PG AND SG are needed to compare to these teams) there, they cannot be competitive in a guard-dominated league like today.

* How would the 76ers be with Cousins and Rudy?
Well, I'm a huge fan of Demarcus, but to be brutally honest about his shortcomings:
He's never proven he can be clutch in close, competitive games.
He's hardly ever even played in any competitive games.
He's taken one game-deciding shot in his career.
Who knows what he would do in a pressure-packed string of games for the championship? He could just as easily get himself thrown out as he is to bully people around and be dominant.

And Rudy? I have little faith in him in a clutch situation like the playoffs bring. He hasn't proven to me yet that he can step up and make critical plays in key games.

It'd sure be great to see them get a chance, someday.
As you said it's hard to compare the teams. One could argue that if Cousins had the same supporting cast around him that Malone had, he would look like a different player. No way to know. Wilt was known for throwing tantrums on occasion, although most of his came off the court. At the end of the day, teams win games, not individual players. But you need good to great players on your team. I guess a better way of putting it, is that talent wins games as long as the talent plays as a team.
 
#5
So if PDA kept Mbah Moute or Robin Lopez, signed Ed Davis, Drafted Elfrid Payton and traded for Affalo, then some defenders of substance would have been available for the other M. Malone. Hmmmm............
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#6
So if PDA kept Mbah Moute or Robin Lopez, signed Ed Davis, Drafted Elfrid Payton and traded for Affalo, then some defenders of substance would have been available for the other M. Malone. Hmmmm............
Hell, had we played our cards right, the Kings roster could have looked like this:

Boogie/JT/Reggie
Robin Lopez/JT/Luc/Reggie
Rudy/Luc/Omri
Ben/Anyone really, heck, Jason Terry
Darren/Elfrid Payton/Anyone not named Ramon Sessions

That is a whole lot of defensive nastyball out in the front court with JT and Lopez providing versatility 4/5 big men to play aside Boogie (or even together for stretches) and Luc providing a lockdown defender off the bench for the wings. With the solid defensive PG rotation of DC and Payton, that (Mike Malone-coached) roster is pretty much one SG away from nastyballing its way deep into the playoffs a la the Memphis Grizzlies two or three years ago.

But of course, none of this happened.