Summer League Impressions (other than Kings)

Discussion in 'NBA' started by Blob, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    I am creating this thread for those who have access to NBA TV to see Orlando and Utah games ahead of our first game this Friday!

    Here's my impressions watching a few games so far:

    Donovan Mitchell (aka Lillard 2.o) looks great tonight.....definite All-Star potential! For those questioning if he could play PG, question no longer! This guy has the instincts and handles like I anticipated. He is strong and relentless. Coach Pitino was right all along. He's a PG and the Jazz got a steal. He is a shadow defender and his shot is beautiful with quick release. He sheds contact when he drive the lane to create space to finish or dish.

    I wonder if he would have slipped to #15 if we would have nabbed him? I certainly hope so for the credibility of our FO. On other hand not impressed with Fultz or Tatum. Fultz in particular....ugh. NaPG! Fultz is a combination of Mudiay and D'Angelo and I don't mean that as a compliment. He has good size and spring in his step but that shot is mediocre and there is zero PG instincts. He also has this aloof nature I don't like.

    Donovan is more ready to play NBA PG than the #1 pick in the draft! Fultz wants to score. And because he is so athletic he is capable of getting a shot anytime he wants. This is where discretion and judgement has to come into play and I don't think he has it. This was actually an issue with Boogie for a lot of years. Actually it is an issue to this day.

    When a player can get any shot anytime and thinks he can make any shot anytime, it is up to that player to have discipline and judgement to pass up below average shots for above average shots. How often did Boogie drive into waiting defenders early in his career then beg for call? How often did he force the issue when the simple play was the smart play? This is what I see from Fultz. He's going to jack shots and his efficiency is not going to be pretty.

    Danny Ainge did good to trade down. But then he screwed up taking Tatum over Jackson! Tatum looks more like a late lottery pick than the #3 pick. He does have decent instincts for the game and patience to the way he plays but his combination of skills and athleticism scream role player. His shot is jacked too.

    Jonathan Isaac was shaky in his first game but he is a transcendent talent. Super active. DOPY potential with potential to be a 20 PPG scorer. Isaac is who I thought he was. He would have been a great pick for us at #5. Isaac needs polish but he's not as far off as fans think. This bust or boom assessment is ridiculous. Isaac is a sure thing.

    But overall the player that stands out in the first few summer leagues I watched is Mitchell. He has all the makings of a special player. Fultz may be have better success playing off the ball but I don't know. I see a low efficiency player who may be able to defend if he decides to engage. This will be fun development with the many of the 76er fans obnoxious and arrogant wanting to mock the Kings. Fultz is NOT ready to take the league by storm. That rookie PG is named Donovan Mitchell. ;)

    Lastly Jaylen Brown can be an all-star. He has tremendous size, handles and body control. And his shot is smooth and effortless. There is actually a lot of LeBron to his game when he gets a head of steam. He is what they call a "downhill" driver. The only problem I anticipate for him is getting the touches and the usage he needs to turn into the player he can become. If he was on a lesser team he would put up monster numbers next year. That said, I still expect him to make a big jump in Year Two.
    Jimbob and MizzouKing like this.
  2. Kingz19

    Kingz19 Well-Known Member

    I watched the games and I agree. Mitchell, Brown, and Tatum looked strong. Fultz looked meh but it's just summer league. It doesn't matter until the Kings start playing.
  3. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    So it was the first night of Summer League, right?:)
  4. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Summer league started on Saturday. Today was 3rd day in Orlando and Day 1 in Utah.
  5. lwc

    lwc Well-Known Member

    Great insights Blob
    Blob likes this.
  6. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Saying Tatum looked like a late lottery pick while you overly gush about Mitchell and Isaac is hilarious. Tatum was very good....way better than Isaac.
  7. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Tatum looked fine but not worthy of the #3. Isaac is going to make impact right away. I don't know yet about his offense just yet but there is something there. Like I said pre-draft he has a jab step and body balance when he puts the ball on the floor.

    Now if you didn't see Donovan then I think you need to reserve your opinion of my opinion! The guy was spectacular! ;)
  8. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Active Member

    I didn't see Mitchell nor did I care to, so I'll take people's words for it.

    I saw a little bit of Isaac. Raw but very active, good rebounder.

    Fultz was mediocre in his first game but I liked what I saw in spurts and think he will be fine.

    I don't get why people are gushing so much over Tatum. He filled up the box score with the 5 steals in particular being intriguing, and he scored down in crunch time, but... his offensive moves are ugly as sin. Janky shot, contested iso fadeaways, on this one game sample size alone his offensive game isn't as polished as people say it is. If that ends up being the extent of it, I think he'll struggle his rookie year.
    Blob likes this.
  9. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    The problem with Tatum is his offensive consists of jab step step back. I said before the draft stepping away from the defense is not an impressive way to get a quality shot. That's the 32 year old Melo Special. It can work to about 25% to 30% accuracy. He would need less moves if he had a pure shot but his mechanics are jacked (and janky :)) . He doesn't use speed or power enough to my liking to gain an advantage on a defender. He did have few moves to the hoop when there were clear lanes on switches. He made a lefty lay-up and a dunk against Fultz. Of course he will to exploit that. I didn't see the 5 steals. I think that was a box score error.

    So then you say well shot is not great, one-on-one moves are not great, maybe he will be okay as dominant athlete. But he's dominant in that area either! All this was apparent before the draft and on display tonight. This will all be exposed in due time. Danny Ainge taking Tatum over Isaac and Jackson is going to be one of the mistakes of this draft. Donovan slipping to #13 over PGs like Smith and Ntlinkina may be another.
  10. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    lol disagree with your entire assessment of Jayson Tatum. How can you say Isaac looks like a transcendent talent putting up the mediocre numbers, while showing no real scoring instinct(biggest problem at FSU)...but on the other hand, Tatum put up 21pts 7rebs 3asts 5stls 0TOs in his 1st SL, yet he looks like a role player to you?

    lol but ok.

    Skal takes contested ISO fadeaways too.. wonder how you feel about that. Not sure with the dislike towards Tatum. He had a really good game. Much much much better than Isaac. If anything, Isaac has looked like a role player in these SL games.
    Folsomkingsfan and Tetsujin like this.
  11. beb0p

    beb0p Well-Known Member

    Mitchell can ball, but if he is a PG then it wasn't evident. He is a trigger happy guard who thinks shoot first. He does have good vision and passing skill for a SG but I wouldn't go that far to say he is a PG. He looks like a SG, and a good one at that.

    In limited minutes, I've been impressed with Isaac. He is so unique - like someone combined AK-47, Darius Miles, and then stretched the limps. He looks like he can fill up a stat sheet. Can he consistently knock down the jump shots?

    Tatum gets ugly baskets. I've never really liked him but if he improves his 3-pt shot, I can see him putting up very good numbers on a team that tolerates his iso ball.

    I don't think Fultz played that badly. His shots didn't fall but he had no problem creating good looks. With his size, skill, and athleticism; he should be able to do the same against NBA defense.

    Brown hit 3 of 4 treys. We knew all along that if he can shoot consistently from outside, it's game over. Let's see if he can keep this up.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  12. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Uhm I didn't watch any draft prospects or draft express vids this year before SL, but speaking of this particular game I don't understand the criticism of Tatum.
    To me he looked pretty advanced on the offensive side of the ball. First pro game of his career and he was able to create offense, Did he take some ill advised shots or made poor decisions? Of course, but so did Jaylen Brown, who has 1 year of NBA basketball under his belt. It's SL, guys want to prove themselves, there is not much of a system involved and the game is very fast paced. Both rookies were eager to make plays and it was enjoyable to watch.
    Btw. why are step backs and escape moves suddenly a thing to criticise? When we drafted Richardson people were hyped, that he had this kind of moves. Now with Tatum it's a bad thing?

    Even though he had a rather poor shot selection, Tatum shot a decent percentage. And he played against guys like Luwawu or Poythress, who are advanced defenders by SL standards. The game winner was a thing of beauty. Quick, explosive escape move, even though it looked like he messed up his footwork a bit he kept balance and made the rainbow over a pretty big guy. And maybe we should give him some credit for actually bothering Poythress just enough on the potential game winning tip in.

    With Stevens Tatum won't be the guy the Celtics throw the ball to. He will be taught to score within the system. It's a positive thing he has those kind of isolation moves to get a shot off, when the clock winds down, but this won't be the norm for him, when he actually plays in the NBA. The much bigger question than his potential as an isolation scorer is, if he is able to knock down shots when open, cut to the basket and finish in traffic and most of all, if he is able to defend.

    To me it looked like he has all the tools necessary. A pretty good athlete (although pretty slender for a SF), very explosive, with a quick first step and with a good motor on D. I honestly didn't see much I don't like.
    Wether he is a worthy #3 pick or not, is not a question I fell like I can answer by any means right now.
  13. Dime Dropper

    Dime Dropper Well-Known Member

    The issue here is you're assuming that a sizable amount of people woukd agree with Blob's frankly embarrassing summary of Tatum and his first game.

    Blob came out with a series of horrible predictions about prospects prior to the draft and is merely sticking to his guns in the face of all contrasting evidence. How someone could watch Tatum's first game and come out with that sort of analysis is pretty hilarious. It's confirmation bias, seeing what they want to see. Nothing more.

    I think most people on this board can recognise that Tatum is a very talented young player with a lot of potential.

    The fact is, Tatum could go on to be a 10x All-Star and Blob's imagination will still create a world where he is, at best, a role player.
  14. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Because some people are more interested in pushing an agenda than an actual unbiased calls into question their credibility. Tatum showed good footwork, he's going to be good. Isaac has also showed why people liked him. Mitchell was good but not a PG, but was very good, the guy in the Jazz and Spurs game that really stood out was Exxum. At least for this game, his shooting looked much improved.
  15. Sac.Kings

    Sac.Kings Well-Known Member

    You remind me of Bricklayer in a lot of ways, very focused on their particular point of view with difficulty accepting any other opinion/point of view. I really don't know what game you were watching, but Tatum is clearly a baller and a smooth one at that. At the very least, he's gonna be a perennial all-star, assuming/hoping for no injuries or major issues off the court. He's got some post game, a solid mid-range game, and a decent understanding of the game. I don't think he's even 20!

    Not everyone can be Lebron and be a freak of nature physically. Tatum is like a blend of Rudy Gay and Paul Pierce. That's his potential and that's pretty darn good for a #3. I am not making this personal, but Tatum had a very good game and I feel like you are just nitpicking at little things for no particular reason other than to complete your viewpoint on him as not worthy of a #3 selection. He's played 1 summer league game. 1.
    Tetsujin, roasthawg and King Baller like this.
  16. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I don't even need to see the highlights. Just one look at Donovan's summer league box score line and I already know he's HOF material.
    roasthawg, Blob and SLAB like this.
  17. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I wonder if Hayward is watching the summer league games? If so, he's got to be impressed with both Exum, who has regained his quickness, and Mitchell. These are complementary pieces to Hayward and could influence his FA decision going forward. I know that if I'm Hayward I'm thinking that these two guys could be big factors in Utah's future success. Brown and Tatum looked very good for the Celtics, but they seem to be somewhat redundant to what Hayward would bring to the table. If I'm just looking at the current roster of the Jazz and the Celtics, I'd choose Utah if I were Hayward.
  18. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Regarding Tatum, the guy is going to be very good. What do you want for a rookie - a guy that gets his shot solely from others (moving without the ball), or a guy that can get his own shot? I say the latter. He's a rookie for gawd's sake. He can learn to move without the ball over the next three or four years. The guy can pass - I saw him do an outstanding bounce pass while he was running on the the fast break; he has good hands - he made some excellent steals. He obviously can shoot. He's probably going to be a mid-level rebound guy. He can play D. What's not to like?
    King Baller likes this.
  19. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    I am extremely receptive to opinions if they are compelling, data-supported and rooted in substance. That's how I became so smart. ;) You just drew the conclusion watching him he is a smooth baller and so at the least he is going to be a perennial all-star. That's not compelling or persuasive. That's an opinion. When I watch these players I am NOT looking first and foremost whether their shots go in, though of course that matters. I am looking at quality of shots they get, their ability to command space on the floor, their ability to physically impose their will on the game with speed or strength. This is what counts. This what translates.

    To be a good to great pro, you need reaction time, agility, body balance, speed and/or power. You need to be a relentless competitor. You need to instinctively be the right place on the floor. You need to be resilient and focused. You need to first to the ball more often than not. I measure players under this lens. This type of assessment is not superficial. It is a high qualitative standard based on watching NBA over 30 years. It is a standard a lot more credible and trustworthy to rate players than checking box score and say "he got 21 /7.....future all-star!" I have said repeatedly why I am not high on this kid....

    Tatum is a scorer without an impressive array of scoring moves. His mechanics are jacked. He is not an elite athlete. He steps away from the defense to create space instead of attacking with speed or power. This is a red flag if not addressed or improved upon. Of course he is talented. But I say definitively Tatum was the wrong choice over Isaac and Jackson and like I say Donovan was the right choice over Ntlinkika and Dennis Smith Jr.... and I will throw Monk in there too! Donovan is a great player. I was telling anyone before the draft. It was only Fox at #5 that excluded his possibility at #10.

    When you see a future star he jumps off the screen. There is an ease to which they make plays. They look good even when they miss. One play Tatum drove the lane go an angle and threw a layup off the backboard. Another play he got a mid post clear out with plenty of room to operate and totally rejected by a future G-Leaguer! His limited array of moves would not be so concerning if he was an explosive athlete or sweet money shooter. He's neither! This is an easy assessment. My analysis will prove prescient soon enough.

    One last point is Ainge would have picked Jackson IMHO but he blew off the workout. Then the Suns take Isaac, we take Fox and Tatum falls to #6. And the fans not bowing down at the altar of Ainge (not you necessarily but the Celtics homers) are not so quick to run to the defense is this guy. Ainge took his snub and rejection personal. That's hardly a way to run a team! I think he was correct to not be high on Fultz, another guy not worthy of the hype. But he screwed up with Tatum. This is hardly an outlandish assertion for a guy with a spotty drafting record. In fact it would be far more outlandish to blindly trust his judgement.

    Happy Fourth to ALL the Kings Fans......(even those one my ignore list ;) )..... and contingent happy wishes to Otto :)
  20. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    PS There seem to be contradictory reports about Hayward going to the Celtics. I reported within the last few minutes that he was going to the Celtics, but then another very recent report (within 3 minutes) that he was still making up his mind.
  21. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    "Explosive" and "advanced" are subjective terms. I don't assign those terms to him. Jackson and Isaac are explosive. Donovan Mitchell is explosive. If you want to say Tatum has advanced footwork for a 19 year old I guess I can go along with that. I have said my piece on Tatum. I don't have anything against the guy I am just not impressed....

    I look forward to comparing him to Justin Jackson later this week.
  22. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member


    Per Jazz President:

    Chris Mannixā€¸Verified account@ChrisMannixYS 17m17 minutes ago

    Jazz president.
    Steve Starks@StevenStarks
    We trust Gordon and his agent that no decision has been made. Good communication all day and a great relationship.
    Kingster likes this.
  23. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Donovan is not a PG? Fultz looked much less like a PG than Donovan. You can take this to the bank! Fultz looks like a SG in the mold of a D'Angelo Russell who bring the ball up the floor but really wants to score. Donovan has better court vision and selflessness needed to be a successful PG who can also slide to the SG....just like a Chris Paul, Isaiah and all the greats ;)
  24. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Fultz didn't look much like a PG as much as a SG but it doesn't make Mitchell a PG. Fultz with Ben Simmons is,a good match. Mitchell and Exxum and Rubio is going to be a heck of a defensive backcourt
  25. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Uhm despite your effort to claim otherwise actually all of our postings here are subjective.
    But obviously you put in way more time than myself to form an opinion about this years draftees.
    I personally won't claim, that I can predict the development of a prospect. That's way too advanced for me. I have my opinions on certain players, but I have been wrong often enough to realize, that I'm not an expert.
    You know smart people realize, when they are in over their head. ;)

    In this particular game I never had the impression, that Tatums athleticism is going to be a problem. He beat his man with his first step and he finished strong and with some finesse if necessary. And Luwawu is a pretty solid athlete from my understanding, therefore I used the subjective term "explosive" for Tatum. :p
    There may be better athletes in his draft class, but if he is able to beat NBA caliber athletes to the basket, I would guess he is at least not subpar in that category.
    Advanced footwork is probably the better term to describe what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up!
  26. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    A PG maintains his dribble in traffic and under pressure. He uses quickness or strength to get where he wants. He gets into the lane and causes defenders to collapse with head up and ability to see open teammate and execute the bounce pass flip or lob pass. This is what Donovan did last night. He made a couple of nice lobs to the big. You must have missed these plays. I didn't see Fultz do this. I didn't see Lonzo do this enough to my liking. It is less important to label a guy PG or SG in the NBA of today. And this is actually the beauty of a player like Donovan. He looks more capable of playing SG than Fultz too!
  27. LoungeLizard

    LoungeLizard Well-Known Member

    Anyone know why Dennis Smith Jr not playing SL?
  28. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    MOD NOTE: I revised the title of this thread. I think we're gonna want a brand new shiny thread to talk about the Kings in Summer League. You know, brandy new shiny thread for brand new shiny vision and all that.

  29. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    He's healthy. They are just holding him out until Vegas.
  30. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Very odd. I wonder why?

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