So, what if we where in a position to draft D'Angelo Russel?
- Thread starter Siranthony
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I really like Russell, who for the most part played off the ball about 50% of the time. I would have like to see him as the lead guard 100% of the time on the floor, but they had Shannon Scott at the point, and to be fair, he's a pretty good player who averaged over 5 assists a game. Scott's problem was that he couldn't shoot a pea into the ocean from beyond the arc, while Russell shot over 40% from there. In general you had to watch a lot of Ohio St. games to see what made Russell special. Once or hopefully twice a game, he would make a pass that made you sit and take notice. Mind you, Russell wasn't surrounded by good players. I doubt Ohio St. would have made the tournament without Russell on the team. It wouldn't surprise me that 10 years from now he's considered the best player from this draft. He's not an elite athlete, but he's an above average athlete. He makes the game look easy at times.
However, I still want Willie Cauley-Stein. I feel he would have a greater impact on the team. I know as much about Mudiay as the next person. Without watching a player play a minimum of 5 or 6 games, and hopefully 10 or more, its difficult to feel confident about one's knowledge of said player.
However, I still want Willie Cauley-Stein. I feel he would have a greater impact on the team. I know as much about Mudiay as the next person. Without watching a player play a minimum of 5 or 6 games, and hopefully 10 or more, its difficult to feel confident about one's knowledge of said player.
I've been thinking about this lately. If we get the third pick, I wonder if our FO is exploring a trade with Denver. Something around the lines of Lawson & #7 for #3.
I'm not sure I would do that. I've been so against bringing Lawson to this team, but the idea of trading a rookie who likely won't help contribute much right away for a good PG should only make us more competitive today. Not to mention we'd still be in position to grab Cauley-Stein at #7 if he falls that far.
PG - Lawson/Collison/McCallum/Miller (vet min)
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Casspi (room exception)/Turkoglu (vet min)
PF - Thompson/Cauley-Stein/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich (vet min)
Again, I'm not even sure if I would do it. I would have to think about it some more, but I still think I say no and take Russell. He would immediately be our combo guard off the bench and we would bring him along slowly into the starting rotation (moving Collison to the bench). He also has the size and length to play SG, so he would be able to play with Collison at times preventing a log jam for PG minutes.
The issue would be having a guard rotation of Collison/Russell/McLemore/Stauskas. Someone will have to go to give the others ample time to play, and since Collison is the vet and Russell has the most talent, it will be one of McLemore or Stauskas. Considering everyone's play styles, I think Stauskas would be the one to ship out. Russell struggles a bit on defense and needs the ball in his hands more to be effective. That gives us Collison and Russell as the main ballhandlers in the guard rotation with McLemore as the off-ball player who has shown flashes of decent defense.
Ideally we move both McLemore and Stauskas and bring back a veteran SG (Middleton sign and trade maybe? McLemore, Stauskas, Thompson, McCallum, & Moreland are all be pieces we could send over) and veteran PF to solidify the starting lineup while we have our top 3 pick developing behind the scenes waiting for his time to crack the starting lineup and help push our team over the top. Yeah, I think I definitely like that scenario more than Lawson...
I'm not sure I would do that. I've been so against bringing Lawson to this team, but the idea of trading a rookie who likely won't help contribute much right away for a good PG should only make us more competitive today. Not to mention we'd still be in position to grab Cauley-Stein at #7 if he falls that far.
PG - Lawson/Collison/McCallum/Miller (vet min)
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Casspi (room exception)/Turkoglu (vet min)
PF - Thompson/Cauley-Stein/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich (vet min)
Again, I'm not even sure if I would do it. I would have to think about it some more, but I still think I say no and take Russell. He would immediately be our combo guard off the bench and we would bring him along slowly into the starting rotation (moving Collison to the bench). He also has the size and length to play SG, so he would be able to play with Collison at times preventing a log jam for PG minutes.
The issue would be having a guard rotation of Collison/Russell/McLemore/Stauskas. Someone will have to go to give the others ample time to play, and since Collison is the vet and Russell has the most talent, it will be one of McLemore or Stauskas. Considering everyone's play styles, I think Stauskas would be the one to ship out. Russell struggles a bit on defense and needs the ball in his hands more to be effective. That gives us Collison and Russell as the main ballhandlers in the guard rotation with McLemore as the off-ball player who has shown flashes of decent defense.
Ideally we move both McLemore and Stauskas and bring back a veteran SG (Middleton sign and trade maybe? McLemore, Stauskas, Thompson, McCallum, & Moreland are all be pieces we could send over) and veteran PF to solidify the starting lineup while we have our top 3 pick developing behind the scenes waiting for his time to crack the starting lineup and help push our team over the top. Yeah, I think I definitely like that scenario more than Lawson...
Wouldn't pass on him for a second, should Russell drops to us.
Here's a guy that as a freshman, shoots the lights out from 3P land and has great court vision for two guard - sporting a nice 1.73 A/TO ratio - which can only improve if placed in the right system.
The minuses are obvious: he'll struggle to score inside, get to the free throw line and defend stronger/more athletic players in his first few years.
However, if he is dedicated to gaining strength, embracing contact and developing body control around his average athleticism, he could have a James Harden-like career arc (where Harden struggled his first two years in both scoring inside and defending but ended up being pretty A-OK). And out of the gate, he should definitely help our passing and shooting, a pressing team need. Draft him!
Here's a guy that as a freshman, shoots the lights out from 3P land and has great court vision for two guard - sporting a nice 1.73 A/TO ratio - which can only improve if placed in the right system.
The minuses are obvious: he'll struggle to score inside, get to the free throw line and defend stronger/more athletic players in his first few years.
However, if he is dedicated to gaining strength, embracing contact and developing body control around his average athleticism, he could have a James Harden-like career arc (where Harden struggled his first two years in both scoring inside and defending but ended up being pretty A-OK). And out of the gate, he should definitely help our passing and shooting, a pressing team need. Draft him!
Here's the thing about Russell. You're essentially hoping he's what PDA and Vivek hoped Stauskas would be: great shooting guard with the ball handling, passing and court awareness to play both guard spots. I have a lot more faith in Russell than I ever did in Nik, but it essentially means three straight top 8 picks used on SGs since I don't think D'Angelo plays a ton of PG right off the bat.
I like Russell. A lot. But if the Kings are picking third and as expected KAT is off the board I'd be looking to trade down a few spots to get WCS, dump Landry's contract and pick up another role player.
That said, I'm already gearing up for the Kings to end up with the 7th pick, draft Porzingas or Kaminsky and trade Cousins for Lawson and Faried.
After all, what would a Kings offseason be without terrible luck and poor decisions?
I like Russell. A lot. But if the Kings are picking third and as expected KAT is off the board I'd be looking to trade down a few spots to get WCS, dump Landry's contract and pick up another role player.
That said, I'm already gearing up for the Kings to end up with the 7th pick, draft Porzingas or Kaminsky and trade Cousins for Lawson and Faried.
After all, what would a Kings offseason be without terrible luck and poor decisions?
I have never felt lucky going into the lottery, but this year, for some reason, I feel like were going to move up. My hope is to move into the number one spot, and have another team also jump up into the top three, which, as you pointed out in another thread, would move the Lakers into the sixth spot, and cause them to lose their pick. I would like to bask in the warmth of that scenario for a while. We'd be in the drivers seat, able to pick whomever we wanted, and we'd be able to sit and listen to countless offers for the first pick in the draft. It would be nice just once to be in control, and not waiting for what's left over.
Worse case scenario is that we move down a spot or two. Not what I want, but there will be some good choices left in Turner, Kaminsky, Johnson and perhaps, even Cauley-Stein. All depends on what the other teams are looking for.
Worse case scenario is that we move down a spot or two. Not what I want, but there will be some good choices left in Turner, Kaminsky, Johnson and perhaps, even Cauley-Stein. All depends on what the other teams are looking for.
I haven't seen enough of Porzingis to have an opinion on him, but holy crap he is skinny. Lots of alarm bells going off for me if he is supposed to contribute next year.
I would be very happy with a Cauley-Stein pick. I wanted him last year if he had declared. His defense and hustle should be valuable immediately.
I would be very happy with a Cauley-Stein pick. I wanted him last year if he had declared. His defense and hustle should be valuable immediately.
My bigger concern with Porzingis isn't that he's skinny (WCS is still skinny and Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler, Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel all came in skinny after all) but that he's got very narrow shoulders. I'm not sure he has the frame to pack on the muscle he needs to survive in the NBA. His ceiling is a rich man's Andrei Kirilenko or Dirk's offense meets Chris Anderson's defense but his floor is scrawny Channing Frye IMO. And that's a pretty enormous gap.
I don't think Russell is a SG at all in the NBA. People said Curry was a SG and there were even some that said Lillard might be a SG because they all could score.
I think Russell will be a combo guard in the NBA. Curry, Lillard, Irving, and Bledsoe are all combo guards. It's the new trend, and I believe he can be an elite player in the NBA.
I think Russell will be a combo guard in the NBA. Curry, Lillard, Irving, and Bledsoe are all combo guards. It's the new trend, and I believe he can be an elite player in the NBA.
Damien Lillard was a scoring PG in college but he was always a PG. Curry was a SG his first two college seasons but moved to point full time his junior year. Russell has only played one college season where he split time between PG and SG. Can he be a PG? Sure. And for a team like the 76ers if you think PG is his best spot you plant him there and let him go from day 1 just like the Kings did with Tyreke. But if you're the Kings you can't play Russell heavy minutes at the point early on. Not if you want to win games. I think he'd start off as the backup SG (perhaps even the starter depending on his camp performance) and get minutes at PG when the team can afford it.
And I say that as a big fan of Russell's. He's got a sense for the game that is uncanny but he's still a college freshman with only half a season's experience playing PG on a high level.
And I say that as a big fan of Russell's. He's got a sense for the game that is uncanny but he's still a college freshman with only half a season's experience playing PG on a high level.
Both of those guys are solid choices, though I have them ranked a little lower than most. I like D'Angelo Russell too though I have some concern about his ability to defend in the NBA which is always a big issue for me. I don't put a lot of stock into consensus opinion. There are players that get drafted in the 6-15 range every year who we look back 3 or 4 years later and wonder why they didn't go top 5. I hope someone else drafts Okafor for instance. I have him ranked #7 on my wishlist and I'd take him if everyone in my top 6 is off the board but I know that won't be the case. In the likely event we end up picking 6 or 7, I'm hoping for Emmanuel Mudiay, Stanley Johnson or Myles Turner.
IMO, Russell is an excellent fit on the Kings. Mind you there are holes in his game but it seems to me his strength/weakness mesh well with the Kings' weakness/strength.
- Russell is a good 3 pt shooter. The Kings need 3 pt shooting
- He does not get to the line often. The Kings is already an outstanding FT shooting team and doesn't need that from Russell.
- He is unselfish and a willing passer. The Kings can use more of that.
- He shoots a lot of jumpers and his game is very perimeter oriented. On some teams, that could be a turnoff; on the Kings it's welcome. Take as many open looks as you want, Rook; you will get plenty of that on the Kings. Don't worry, if you miss our bigs will get the rebound.
- He is a combo guard. What do you know! The Kings need help at both guard spots! (Even if Miller returns, I'm nervous about his 60 yr old legs.).
Furthermore, I think Russell IS a PG. He can handle the ball, run pick n roll, a willing passer, and read defense. To me, that's a PG. Now, he also can play SG but I think he's one of those rare breed who can truly plays both guards instead of someone like Douby who is really a SG but tagged combo guard just because.
If Russell ends up on the Kings, I predict he'll take someone's starting job by Jan (either at PG or SG). Moving forward you'd have a big three of Cousins/Gay/Russell, with Russell at PG and super Sixth Man Collison off the bench. That's a deep bench if you can have Collison coming off it; and either BMac/Stauskas/or vet via FA/trade starting at SG. You can then have a starting backcourt each potentially shoots around 40% from deep; which would give opposing team nightmares trying to double team Cousins.
With that said, I like Mudiay too. If the Kings move into the #2/#3 spot, the Russell vs Mudiay debate is going to be interesting.
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- Russell is a good 3 pt shooter. The Kings need 3 pt shooting
- He does not get to the line often. The Kings is already an outstanding FT shooting team and doesn't need that from Russell.
- He is unselfish and a willing passer. The Kings can use more of that.
- He shoots a lot of jumpers and his game is very perimeter oriented. On some teams, that could be a turnoff; on the Kings it's welcome. Take as many open looks as you want, Rook; you will get plenty of that on the Kings. Don't worry, if you miss our bigs will get the rebound.
- He is a combo guard. What do you know! The Kings need help at both guard spots! (Even if Miller returns, I'm nervous about his 60 yr old legs.).
Furthermore, I think Russell IS a PG. He can handle the ball, run pick n roll, a willing passer, and read defense. To me, that's a PG. Now, he also can play SG but I think he's one of those rare breed who can truly plays both guards instead of someone like Douby who is really a SG but tagged combo guard just because.
If Russell ends up on the Kings, I predict he'll take someone's starting job by Jan (either at PG or SG). Moving forward you'd have a big three of Cousins/Gay/Russell, with Russell at PG and super Sixth Man Collison off the bench. That's a deep bench if you can have Collison coming off it; and either BMac/Stauskas/or vet via FA/trade starting at SG. You can then have a starting backcourt each potentially shoots around 40% from deep; which would give opposing team nightmares trying to double team Cousins.
With that said, I like Mudiay too. If the Kings move into the #2/#3 spot, the Russell vs Mudiay debate is going to be interesting.
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If we draft Russell, we need to trade both Nik AND Ben.
We need some vets in the back court. There will be a real minute crunch for our SG prospects if we get a starting caliber guard this offseason (as we should).
Now, if we can ship off both Nik and Ben and get something worthwhile in return, I'm all for drafting Russell. But at that point it might be easier to just trade down for WCS + bonus.
We need some vets in the back court. There will be a real minute crunch for our SG prospects if we get a starting caliber guard this offseason (as we should).
Now, if we can ship off both Nik and Ben and get something worthwhile in return, I'm all for drafting Russell. But at that point it might be easier to just trade down for WCS + bonus.
Hmmm, why Porzingis? If its their intent to win sooner than later, then logic tells you to go with WCS. He's more NBA ready. If its to look long term, then perhaps your right. I don't really know a lot about Porzingis other than he's young, skinny, but skilled. I better light another candle on my draft altar.
At some point you have to start keeping your talented players. And both Nik and Ben are talented. Trade them away and five years from now we'll have some other young player and we'll be trying to trade him for either Nik or Ben. This revolving door thing has to stop at some point. You want to bring in a veteran SG while they come up to speed, fine. But its possible to do that without getting rid of Nik and Ben. Doesn't mean I'm opposed to trading one of them for the right price. But I'm not out there waving them in the wind hoping someone wants them.
Just guesses but for Vivek another international player fits into his NBA 3.0 vision, for Vlade he's a prospect I'm guessing Divac is very familiar with, probably more so than NCAA kids, for PDA I think Porzingis is the type of player that wows in individual workouts and for Karl he's a big who can thrive in transition or as an outside shooter.
And here I thought I was the only one. Still hoping/feeling we might move up for once ala Bricklayer, but also have a feeling that Denver's going to be the lucky team in the top 3.
Porzingis will definitely wow in workouts - he's tall, mobile, athletic, can shoot and block shots, these "workout wonder" guys always rise (see Bismack Biyombo, Alexis Ajinca, Joe Alexander, Jan Vesely). But can he get stronger/gain weight? That's been the knock on him for a while and he hasn't improved in that department a lick. Can he play team basketball? Looking at his assist rate and preference to stay on the perimeter, lacking post moves and avoiding contact, he screams more of a bench specialist than a starter. Does he meet Vivek's Basketball 3.0 vision? Absolutely, and all that jazz. Kaminsky fulfills this misguided vision as well, but looks a step too slow for the NBA and can't defend a lick, hence everyone's concern for Vivek/Vlade's selfie at the Wisconsin game.
But then again, Russell fulfills this vision as well - here we have a guy that can play the 2 or combo right away, albeit will stink in the paint his first couple of years at best - and play secondary ballhandler w/ great court vision. One can hope we finally move up in the draft and save ourselves from our front office. Yikes.
Porzingis will definitely wow in workouts - he's tall, mobile, athletic, can shoot and block shots, these "workout wonder" guys always rise (see Bismack Biyombo, Alexis Ajinca, Joe Alexander, Jan Vesely). But can he get stronger/gain weight? That's been the knock on him for a while and he hasn't improved in that department a lick. Can he play team basketball? Looking at his assist rate and preference to stay on the perimeter, lacking post moves and avoiding contact, he screams more of a bench specialist than a starter. Does he meet Vivek's Basketball 3.0 vision? Absolutely, and all that jazz. Kaminsky fulfills this misguided vision as well, but looks a step too slow for the NBA and can't defend a lick, hence everyone's concern for Vivek/Vlade's selfie at the Wisconsin game.
But then again, Russell fulfills this vision as well - here we have a guy that can play the 2 or combo right away, albeit will stink in the paint his first couple of years at best - and play secondary ballhandler w/ great court vision. One can hope we finally move up in the draft and save ourselves from our front office. Yikes.
I wasn't talking about just bleeding talent (PDA's speciality), I just think we need a vet at the 2. If we have 3 SG prospects playing behind said vet, there is going to be a huge minute crunch. That hurts development and trade value...
...which is why drafting Nik over Payton was so dumb. Hard to develop multiple prospects if they play the same position.
Now, if we kept all 3, we could maaaaaybe get away with giving Nik and Russell some minutes at the point, and maaaaybe go small occasionally with Ben at the 3, but I'd rather just spread the young talent out so everyone can grow into their natural roles.
Heck, maybe Ben will be starter quality by next season (he certainly was under Malone), in which case we can keep all three. But otherwise, for the sake of roster balance, at least one has to go.
...which is why drafting Nik over Payton was so dumb. Hard to develop multiple prospects if they play the same position.
Now, if we kept all 3, we could maaaaaybe get away with giving Nik and Russell some minutes at the point, and maaaaybe go small occasionally with Ben at the 3, but I'd rather just spread the young talent out so everyone can grow into their natural roles.
Heck, maybe Ben will be starter quality by next season (he certainly was under Malone), in which case we can keep all three. But otherwise, for the sake of roster balance, at least one has to go.