Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by kingjatt, Mar 27, 2017.
....... as ours does. Come on guys, crawl back into the wood work and let something happen.
Why now? If you don't trust Vlade why let him make the Joerger hire and the Demarcus trade and completely change the direction of the team. Every time this team gets the smallest amount of positive momentum some story hits demonstrating more disarray; and from where I sit it is all on Vivek. Vlade may be in over his head and coach Joerger may not be the right guy for this team (although I really like him thus far), but I'm not sure Vivek will ever sit still long enough find out.
So you think Hinkie and Joerger would be two peas in a pod? And Vivek would not continue to act impulsively when he has his "I'm a genius" moments?
We DON'T need another change in direction!!!!!!!!!! No more cooks in the kitchen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS TEAM IS MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!!!!!!!!!! We WILL be in the playoffs very soon! Don't F%^& this up Vivek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hinkie pulled off an intentional 5-6 year tank job, only has 2 high lottery picks they intend to keep around(Embiid and Simmons) to show for it and they might just now win 30 games this year. It took no brains for his "process". Every message board on the internet has a few Sam Hinkies(just get rid of our good players, sit veterans, hoard cap space and load up on high lottery ) only he got the go ahead to basically do nothing but make sure his team didn't win games...and he even lost his job doing that.
lol Hield turned 23 in December. NBA season basically starts in November. Hield is a much much older rookie than Curry was. 2 years in fact. I think the older the rookie is, the more safe to assume that they're closer to their ceiling. Curry in his rookie year was a 17.5/5.9asts/4.5rebs/1.9stl player on 46.2/43.7/88.5
Easy there. Your argument might be better if you compared him to CJ McCollum maybe.
This is precisely the point I've been trying to get across to all these DeMarcus Cousins haters. It wasn't HIM. The team wasn't losing because of HIM. The problem has been and continues to be ownership and the front office situation. This newest mickey mouse maneuver is yet another example of it. As soon as the tsunami wave from the previous bad move finally starts to subside, they have to start another one. It's a true wash, rinse, repeat situation.
Stop focusing on players and focus on the real problem. THE GUYS that are actually drafting, acquiring and trading the players. They don't have the first damn clue. And it all begins with Vivek Ranadive.
I agree on Ken. I thought that was why he was brought in. I think after he was hired our moves improved and clearly had his fingerprints on them.He did work for the league, played, and when we grabbed him from Detroit he was well regarded. I had hoped he was/is going to take over as GM at some point.
Soooo, How many moves that we attribute to Vlade are actually made by Vivek and Vlade is just the front man?
We have just made a MAJOR move. The impact of that takes a while. We essentially zeroed out. Apparently it was Vlade's idea all along. I'm seeing there is a reason why he drafted two big men in the last draft. Let the man work.
It's also a version of the first mistake he made: hiring the coach before the GM.
You seem eager to try to desperately prove analytical superiority and end up figuratively staggering and stumbling like a drunken sailor trying to make it back to the dock. Easy there pal lets get you a cab! I said Curry was an "old rookie" not unlike Buddy. Do you want to continue to contend with all the 19 and 20 year olds and one-and downs and infrequency of upper class-men at the top of the draft he was NOT an "old rookie"?
The throwaway point I was making is inarguable yet you continue to to argue it woefully. I stated Buddy was 22 years 6 months when drafted and Curry was 21 years 3 months when drafted and you reply: "Hield is a much much older rookie than Curry was. 2 years in fact." which begs question why do you want to discredit yourself when basic math tells you the difference in ages when they came into the league was 1 year and 3 months?
When does 15 months equal 24 months "in fact"? This difference holds whether you cite their ages at time of draft or when seasons start. If you are going to take the unconventional liberty of citing age in November instead of June when referencing when a player "comes into the league" and ROUND UP then do the same with Curry, that is, if you are interested in logical and intellectual consistency. Curry was 21 years and 8 months when he played his first game so I will apply YOUR logic and call that 22 years old. A 22 year old rookie is an OLD rookie. Case closed.
So confusing and disheartening. At this point, as I said, I cannot even try and follow it any longer. I'm going to sit back, be thankful we have a team and continue to be a fan - hoping every day that they don't finally do the one thing that makes it impossible for me to even watch any longer. (They came close with Boogie, but this new group of kids has somewhat restored my faith.)
If Vivek is going to make any move, he AND Vlade should be looking for someone to work UNDER Vlade as his GM. Vlade should remain the President with final say.
Much like Larry Bird had with his GMs. The GM did all the leg work to hash out the components of the trade and Bird had the final say in the trade approval and players picked with the draft picks.
Vlade may not have a poker face when working on trades to obtain more assets, but he does have an eye for talent, which is something that Hinke clearly has not shown to have.
Has anyone pondered the thought that maybe this was Hinke or his people floating this rumor out there, to get teams talking about him?
Since the Kings are so dysfunctional, then if he threw anything out there, the media would just swallow it up and Hinke would be relevant again.
This would help him trying to drive up any his own asking price in any future negotiations with other teams.
I really hope we aren't moving toward what the Oakland A's are. They are the major leagues Triple AAA squad that gets young guys and gets them ready for the big time, elsewhere. The A's also revive careers or are a last stop for vets to get a paycheck. As soon as we get attached to our players, BOOM, they are traded. The A's even let go of their Isaiah Thomas (Josh Donaldson) to go put up MVP numbers for another team. It a revolving door that I just can't handle anymore.
I really hope vivek eventually removes his head from his a**.
Please tell me if I'm wrong but didn't multiple sources come out with the Hinkie story at the same time? Then after the kings denied Woj doubled down and said, yes, the kings are indeed looking for someone to "help out" vlade.
Point blank, I don't believe the kings FO anymore. They have zero credibility right now.
Great minds think alike.
I'm going to disagree about the report being refuted.
It was reported that they Kings requested permission to talk. The Kings did not deny requesting permission to talk. The Kings got word out that they aren't going to hire him. That's not refuting the story that Lowe and Stein put out. In fact, it's not even directly responsive to their point.
That's a big difference and it lines up with all of the other reporting from Woj that they are in the market and Amick who says Hinkie
ppl were asking for his head when he hired george karl. **** was going south bad and he brought in vlade to help take the heat off him now he's ready to push him off the boat at first chance. vivek is first class scum! why would ANYONE want to come knowing vivek could pivot and change directions at any moment
Anything else we want to publicly deny? We're on a roll here!
There is a move of a goal post here too time wise to the question that was about Philly trade.
Most of the stuff above is relying on the shift in strategy from February which is 18 months after the Philly trade, and things from before the trade.
On its own, trade made a lot of sense when strategy is to build playoff team around Cuz. Without trade there would be Landry-Thompson eating cap and roster space not leaving much flexibility to build anything.
Knowing that this January we were in a serious playoff hunt, and now that everybody knows that Kings were developing Skal/Malachi/Papa quite well, it is very realistic that in 2019 the pick given to Philly would be in high teens.
I do agree that the real bad thing is the shift in strategy combined with Philly trade, not the Philly trade on it's own.
What's wrong with denying that? Could be Hinkie and his agent
Zach Lowe was one of two original sources for the Hinkie leak. The link is basicaly what first got word out. I love how "other undisclosed" teams also sought permission. Notice we are always the team (or meme) that has their laundry out to see. Troubling.
Hinkie isnt only about tanking, its just the type cast stigma he has now. Im not saying I would be for or against him or anyone else bolstering the front office. After all it was said any dealings with our F.O. were "abnormal".
I just am opposed to upheaval of the roster already before we even know what we have. Even bigger for me is retaining Joerger and his staff. Losing R.A. was a huge disappointment for me and this is the first time since I have been happy with the coaching staff.
Barring that, if Vivek just wants to strengthen our negotiating acumen I would be at least open minded to that.
I can't believe people keep making excuses and/or keep giving Ranadive the benefit of the doubt. How many times have we seen/heard this kind of stuff and, for the most part, it's ended up being true? The Kings are AWFUL at covering their tracks and/or still have a very big leak within the organization. How often have Woj, Amick or Lowe been wrong about the Kings?? Woj even doubled down on what he reported even after the Kings denied it.
Kings ownership and FO don't get the benefit of the doubt from me anymore nor should they from anybody that's been paying attention for the past 4 years. If anybody is actually considering the idea that any of this is made up, it's wishful thinking IMO.
As former President Dub-ya once famously said: "“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”
Vivek really needs to take a deep breath, and calm down. I can understand getting some help for Vlade, particularly guys who have experience of accepting bad contracts for assets. You don't undermine your GM in public like this though. If anything, this will weaken his position to get the best deals.
I HATED the trade. DMC was our sole bright spot over so many years, and I hated to see him go. That said, I can understand the direction. You have a team struggling to make the playoffs, and you bring back essentially the same team next season. Sure, the guys added this year will likely get better, coach will have had a full year to implement the system, and so on. However, some other teams will also move up. Without the trade, we would have had no picks this year, a middling pick next year, a superstar we owe a ton of money, and we would still be struggling to make the playoffs.
Now, we get two top ten picks this year, a high pick next year, and a ton of cap space. The challenge will be to use this space to acquire assets. Just like we offloaded our bad contracts and gave up picks to facilitate it, we need other teams to play this game with us. There are already examples of using Afflalo's contract, and cap space to take back bad contracts (e.g. Turner from Portland), and get picks/prospects. I'm not sure Vlade is the guy for this job. His trade record doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. I think he gave too much in the trade with 6ers, got too little for DMC, and failed to trade guys that are not in our plan next season. That said, his draft day trades last year were pretty good.
I also accept that it's easy to sit and talk about this. We don't know what other offers, if any, were on the table, and if he was under some direction from Vivek to make trades wrt some players. However, given the patchy record, it may make sense to get some help for Vlade. Unless you plan to fire him or let him go, this is about the worst possible way to do it though. You seriously undermine him. Other GMs around the league don't know how much power and authority he has, and will be more hesitant to deal with him. He himself, loses confidence of the front office, the coaching staff, and the players. Just completely bad management from Vivek.
Just my guess but I think the leaks, along with pressure to make a F.O. move largely is coming from minority ownership.
While Petrie gets the credit for the great drafts during those years, we often overlook the coaching staff's role in their development. We got excellent players with late first rounders, turning virtually each of them into useful rotation players, or more. Since RA left, we have had tons of high draft picks, and (prior to this year), with the exception of DMC, IT, and to some extent Reke and much lesser extent JT, have blown them all. Can't be a coincidence that while we were able to turn late first rounders like Hedo, GW, and Kevin Martin into excellent players, we wasted so many high drafts subsequently.
I know you know this, but since you included him in this list -- IT was not a lottery pick. He was Mr. Irrelevant (in NBA terms) ie. the last pick in the draft #60.
So, in reality, Cousins and Tyreke are the only lottery hits they've had since Jason Williams in 1998. And we all know what became of Tyreke.