Restart the rebuild around Boogie?

[Bosnian Diehard]

I think that despite improving the roster, we haven't surrounded him with the right type of players. With a big like Boogie, we need as many shooters/athletic bigs as we can get. Also, we need a coach who can play to his strengths and post him up more, obviously.

I'm still a believer that despite the way the game is now being played, we can win a title or at least become a contender with Cuz as our main guy. But I also believe that for that to happen, we also need a star guard to help light en the load. Someone who can also take over games when Boogie is frustrated, and preferably a guard that can DEFEND.

A few things I would do to rebuild around Boogie:

-- keep WCS! Perfect running mate in the frontcourt.

-- keep McLemore and actually give him minutes to develop next season. I think Karl has stunted his growth by playing Belinelli (who averages more pump fakes than 3 pointers made per game) way more than he should be.

-- trade Belinelli and Koufos for what we can get (Koufos just doesn't fit well with DeMarcus and he's become the 4th best big on the team; Beli has had a few good games all year)

-- prefer to keep Rudy but if also be open to trading him for 3&D roleplayers/picks

-- keep Collison/let Rondo walk (Rondo is already 29 and I don't wanna spend a lot of money on someone who forgot how to play defense and whose poor shooting helps defenses sag in to help on DMC)

-- try to develop Seth as backup PG

-- draft Buddy Hield, if lucky enough (I believe he could become the star guard we need next to Cousins). If he's not available, look for other SG's like LeVert, Korkmaz, etc.

----------------------------------------

With that being said, do you believe we should restart the rebuild around Boogie? If yes, how would you do it?

 

[kingsboi]

I don't know that Cousins wants to, nor should he, be around another rebuild. At this point, you have to continue to tweak the roster with fit rather than just talent. You can have all the talent in the world but if it doesn't mesh together, it's all for not. Bring in players that want to play defense, players that can shoot the ball on a consistent basis. It's something similar to what Orlando did back in the day with Dwight Howard manning the paint, even though Dwight was never the scorer Cousins is, it worked for that particular team and the players fit because Dwight had room to operate with all the shooters he had on the team.

 

[LPKingsFan]

What do you mean by "rebuild" versus "retool"? Given the impending arena opening, I don't think they go for a rebuild (which to me means trading players for future assets, looking to bottom out in the draft) just yet. You may lose one or two of the other core guys (Rondo may walk, after all, and they were supposedly entertaining trade ideas for Gay at the deadline) but you don't deal Cousins.

Now, if this summer's retooling doesn't work out, and we reach the trade deadline next February looking like we'll be outside the playoffs once more, then you have to start thinking seriously about trading Cousins, as his value starts to decline at that point with his remaining contract length getting shorter and shorter to rental/expiring status. Not because anything Cousins did or didn't do, but because it's becoming increasingly unlikely you can build a contender around him before he could (and should) walk in 2018. So, you have to bite the bullet and cash in your most valuable asset for the long term good of the franchise.

But, hopefully this summer's re-tool works out, and you don't have to go there.

Edit to add: I didn't vote, because what I'd do (somewhat similar to funkykingston's plan here) is more than "minor tweaks", but I wouldn't call it a "rebuild" either.

 

[Bricklayer]

I wouldn't classify them as minor tweaks, but I would say that the general parameters of the roster could work with a few moves and a new coach.

Just classified by a black (solid) grey (uncertain/need upgrading) red (big issue must be fixed):

C - Cousins
PF - Cauley-Stein
SF - Gay
SG- McLemore
PG - Rondo

PG/SG - Collison
SG - Belinelli
SF/PF - Casspi (could see this being less solid if Omri does not respond to the next coach as well, but friend of Cuz counts too for lockerroom)
C - Koufos
PF - Acy (although gets more solid the deeper down the rotation/bench he goes, again intangibles count here)

SG - Anderson
SF - Butler
PG/SG - Curry
PF/C Moreland
PF Dukan

Coach: Karl

 

[John Galt]

I wouldn't classify them as minor tweaks, but I would say that the general parameters of the roster could work with a few moves and a new coach.

Just classified by a black (solid) grey (uncertain/need upgrading) red (big issue must be fixed):

C - Cousins
PF - Cauley-Stein
SF - Gay
SG- McLemore
PG - Rondo

PG/SG - Collison
SG - Belinelli
SF/PF - Casspi (could see this being less solid if Omri does not respond to the next coach as well, but friend of Cuz counts too for lockerroom)
C - Koufos
PF - Acy (although gets more solid the deeper down the rotation/bench he goes, again intangibles count here)

SG - Anderson
SF - Butler
PG/SG - Curry
PF/C Moreland
PF Dukan

Coach: Karl

so.... if you're a Kentucky Wildcat, you're good. Otherwise, most likely not.

 

[Larry89]

He will not stay for another rebuild.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I wouldn't classify them as minor tweaks, but I would say that the general parameters of the roster could work with a few moves and a new coach.

Just classified by a black (solid) grey (uncertain/need upgrading) red (big issue must be fixed):

C - Cousins
PF - Cauley-Stein
SF - Gay
SG- McLemore
PG - Rondo

PG/SG - Collison
SG - Belinelli
SF/PF - Casspi (could see this being less solid if Omri does not respond to the next coach as well, but friend of Cuz counts too for lockerroom)
C - Koufos
PF - Acy (although gets more solid the deeper down the rotation/bench he goes, again intangibles count here)

SG - Anderson
SF - Butler
PG/SG - Curry
PF/C Moreland
PF Dukan

Coach: Karl

I don't know that the 11-15th men on the roster have (or should have) a big enough impact to be "big issues".

So, what you're saying is that we're a new starting SG and a new coach away from where we need to be. That's certainly possible, but I am starting to harbor significant doubts whether a Cousins/Gay/Rondo core can win. If you are committing to Cousins/Rondo, I think you need to move Gay for a 3 and D type, and likely Collison (to avoid the 2-PG lineups) for a bigger SG/PG off bench scorer (to replace Gay's secondary scoring).

Edit to add: Looking/thinking more, I think part of the problem is that our depth is redundant. Our three best players are Cousins, Gay, and Rondo, and our three best bench players are arguably Collison, Casspi, and Koufos, who play the same position as our three best players. We all harp on the two-PG lineups, but when your second best guard is also a PG, you need to find him minutes, so I get where Karl is coming from. Koufos is certainly solid (I was calling for him the minute the news broke of the Philly trade), but it turns out he can't play major minutes next to Cousins, so you aren't really making the most of your talent/assets there, either. The talent might be there for this team, but the fit isn't.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Trading Collison isn't required to prevent two-PG lineups, and we're probably not going to get a better backup point guard than Collison, anyway.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Option 1
Thibs or Coach of his ilk is hired. If this happens I try to build around Cousins, Rondo and Gay one more time. If this team is still below .500 at the trade deadline I trade Cousins, Gay, Rondo and Bmac to get a fresh start in the new arena. NO MORE EFFING EXCUSES. NONE. Maybe a young hungry roster that likes playing with each other.

Option 2
We end up with a young coach or retain Karl. I trade BMAC, Gay and choose not to resign Rondo. I sign, trade for or draft a scoring PG. Sign or trade for an upgrade at the 2. Get younger at every position.

 

[funkykingston]

Here's the thing about bringing back Rondo

It means that the Kings will likely have less than $9 million in cap room. That's not going to be enough for a starting quality SG in the new salary cap era.

Unless another player is essentially dealt with the Kings taking back no salary - for a future pick perhaps - then the Kings are going to need a trade to shore up the SG spot.

SOME kind of a shakeup is going to have to happen this summer.

I don't see any way that a minor deal for a SG (Ben + the lottery pick maybe?) and a new coach is going to get this team into contention.

I think instead of paying this roster $66 million for 33 wins I think you'd be paying $90 million for 39 wins without much hope of substantially improving from there.

 

[Kings_on_the_RiSE]

Perimeter defense. Smh. This begs the question. Do we keep Rondo? Does he help or hurt us?

 

[LPKingsFan]

Trading Collison isn't required to prevent two-PG lineups, and we're probably not going to get a better backup point guard than Collison, anyway.

Sure, but then you are either

1) replacing Rondo, which is fine, but you'll note I prefaced that sentence with "if you are committing to Rondo"

2) substantially cutting either Rondo's or Collison's minutes, since they are playing 35 and 29 minutes, respectively, which requires some amount of time together on the court. Having a very good point guard that only plays 13 minutes/game isn't a good use of talent/assets, especially when you have other holes to fill.

 

[twslam07]

I sound like a broken record but....

1. Belinelli for top 55 protected 2nd rounder (I'm sure some contending team will want Belinelli for free especially when they see the types of deals players will be getting in the offseason)
2. Koufos/McLemore for Gibson/Snell (Koufos is younger than Gibson and allow the bulls to move forward with Mirotic & Portis as their PFs of the future. Koufos also compliments both of them well. I would aslo say McLemore has more upside than Snell as well)
3. Gay for T. Evans (Pelicans want to move forward with Davis & Holiday leaving Evans as the odd man out. Gay strengthens their SF spot greatly and can act as that 2nd/3rd scorer behind Davis/Holiday letting him be more effective)
4. 2016 Top 10 Pick for Ariza (Houston regressed this year and will likely look to retool around Harden. Ariza will be 31 next year and might not be in their long term plans. Dangling a top 10 pick in front of them should be enough to pry him away)
5. Sign Kent Bazemore
6. Sign Cole Aldrich to MLE

And voila! You have a beast of a team next year.

PG - Collison (26 min)/Evans (22 min)/Curry
SG - Bazemore (30 min)/Evans (10 min)/Ariza (8 min)/Snell
SF - Ariza (24 min)/Casspi (24 min)/Anderson
PF - Cauley-Stein (18 min)/Gibson (30 min)/Acy
C - Cousins (36 min)/Cauley-Stein (12 min)/Aldrich

Cousins - 36 min
Evans - 32 min
Ariza - 32 min
Bazemore - 30 min
Cauley-Stein - 30 min
Gibson - 30 min
Collison - 26 min
Casspi - 24 min

 

[Jose]

My preferred option isn't there: Rebuild based on Boogie's preference

In other words, let him know we intend to rebuild and would love to do so around him. But, if he doesn't want to go thru that again, work out a trade to a destination where he would be happy and we would get good value in return. He has suffered enough and has earned the courtesy of being asked, rather than being forced to endure more of this garbage.

 

[funkykingston]

I DO know that the Kings need a guy like Bazemore.

Bazemore, Crowder, DeMarre Carroll the types of guys that flat out hustle and defend. The ones that are undrafted, 2nd rounders or very late 1st round picks and who had to fight and scrap to carve out their place in the NBA.

You want one in your starting lineup. Someone that picks up the energy and does the little things. The Kings don't really have that. It's why I'm okay with the idea of dealing Rudy. If the Kings get back a 3&D wing with that kind of motor then I think they'd be a better team.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Count me in on Bazemore.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

Live by Cousins. Die by Cousins.

 

[twslam07]

Count me in on Bazemore.

I'm all for Bazemore as well, but Kings fans should realistically expect to have to fork up $20 mil+ to bring him here. $20 mil under the new cap is about Rudy's contract now under the current cap. Add to the fact that everyone will have cap space this year (thus players will receive inflated contracts) and that the Kings are a non-desirable location to begin with, and it will take a hefty payday to bring him here.

Having said that, I'm optimistic that Bazemore will go with whoever pays him the most. Bazemore will be 27 next year, and he has only made $5.3 mil over his 4 year career. He's going to really be thinking about his future and looking for that big payday. I'm not so sure you'll see Bazemore take a paycut to play with a contender.

 

[randymoss1881]

Whoever voted for DMC trade needs to be publicly shamed!! Good thing we have a new arena coming this making DMC untradeable.

 

[lwc]

#BazemoreAtAllCosts...ExceptBoogie

 

[lwc]

Whoever voted for DMC trade needs to be publicly shamed!! Good thing we have a new arena coming this making DMC untradeable

 

[Glenn]

I wouldn't classify them as minor tweaks, but I would say that the general parameters of the roster could work with a few moves and a new coach.

Just classified by a black (solid) grey (uncertain/need upgrading) red (big issue must be fixed):

C - Cousins
PF - Cauley-Stein
SF - Gay
SG- McLemore
PG - Rondo

PG/SG - Collison
SG - Belinelli
SF/PF - Casspi (could see this being less solid if Omri does not respond to the next coach as well, but friend of Cuz counts too for lockerroom)
C - Koufos
PF - Acy (although gets more solid the deeper down the rotation/bench he goes, again intangibles count here)

SG - Anderson
SF - Butler
PG/SG - Curry
PF/C Moreland
PF Dukan

Coach: Karl

bricklayer doesn't need my backup for any of his opinions but this is exactly the way I see the team. As to the people who must go, there are only four. A couple are way at the end of the bench or not used (Butler).. At that we could survive with Koufos but I hope some combo of Collison and Ben could be traded for a lesser PG and a better SG. Who knows what the draft might bring but I have learned to count on nothing. This is not a rebuild in my way of viewing things. It is a tweak and not a huge one at that. The biggest change is at coach.

Hit the right buttons and we have a team in the playoffs and I would hope better than an 8th seed. I'm not going to go that far ahead in predicting. We have a great start thanks to Vlade.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't know that the 11-15th men on the roster have (or should have) a big enough impact to be "big issues".

So, what you're saying is that we're a new starting SG and a new coach away from where we need to be. That's certainly possible, but I am starting to harbor significant doubts whether a Cousins/Gay/Rondo core can win. If you are committing to Cousins/Rondo, I think you need to move Gay for a 3 and D type, and likely Collison (to avoid the 2-PG lineups) for a bigger SG/PG off bench scorer (to replace Gay's secondary scoring).

Edit to add: Looking/thinking more, I think part of the problem is that our depth is redundant. Our three best players are Cousins, Gay, and Rondo, and our three best bench players are arguably Collison, Casspi, and Koufos, who play the same position as our three best players. We all harp on the two-PG lineups, but when your second best guard is also a PG, you need to find him minutes, so I get where Karl is coming from. The talent might be there, but the fit isn't.

I think we're a correct starting SG and a correct coach from being a playoff team.

But I think all the greyed areas of rotation are things that need to be looked over carefully too for larger goals. Let's call that group 50/50ers. Adequate or talented enough, but either not perfect fits or underacheiving.

If
1) we hire the RIGHT coach (defensive or big man knowledge, has to be a leader) -- I seriously consider this to be half the battle

2) said coach plays WCS 28+ min up front next to Cuz (easy enough)

3) we add not 1, but TWO good perimeter defenders (tricky, and have to replace two of these pieces):

Rudy
Casspi
McLemore
Belinelli
Collison
Rondo

Then I think you have the makings of a good defensive team and a the remaining structure is reasonable and reasonably flexible.

 

[pshn80]

Lots of good alternatives in the posts so far. If Ranadive and Divak are still in charge what would they do? I'm sure they have sets of ideas right now and are open to what happens the rest of the season.

Their most pressing task, as Brick points out above, and the number one task is to decide Karl's fate and quickl move on it, particularly if they chose to replace him. If that is the decision, make a replacement decision quickl y so next year's coach can actively participate in the remaining big decisions - like players you go after and players you keep. With the new coach or a retained Karl, I happily leave the remaining decisions in coach's and the FO's good hands. It is true that there are a lot of ways to go making it not an easy task. Good luck and a lot f keen insight.

 

[gunks]

I picked minor tweaks.

We need a competent 2 guard. Maybe a wing defender. I actually like the CUZ/KK/WCS big rotation going forward.

Biggest tweak would be getting Karl the F out of here. Our current roster underachieved in a big way thanks to that washed up hack of an HOFer.

 

[funkykingston]

If the Kings decide that they are going to keep Rondo then I think Collison becomes an attractive trade piece.

He's one of the best backup PGs in the NBA but as an occasional spot starter and 12 mpg backup to Rondo I think he's better served being part of a trade package to bring back a SG, wing defender and/or stretch 4.

McLemore should be dealt. He won't net much but some team may still feel they can develop him and give the Kings back a piece they can use. Or he could thrown into a larger deal. Rudy should probably be dealt but only for a deal that makes sense.

Collison, McLemore, Gay and the 6th or 7th pick of the draft are decent pieces to dangle in order to reshape things.

Of course there's the distinct possibility that the Kings end up with a top 3 pick in the draft. In fact, the most Kangz thing I can imagine is finally winning the #1 overall pick and having to trade it with Philly. Still, if somehow the Kings did end up at #2 and #3 then maybe a guy like Ingram or Bender (who I haven't watched at all) become a bigger consideration than trading the pick for immediate help.

But if Rondo, Cauley-Stein and Cousins are three of the starters next year the team better have some wings that can shoot. And a SG who can defend, ideally both guard spots since Rajon seems allergic to defense these days.

And that still doesn't address who you turn to when you need a late game bucket. Cuz sure, but there better be a shooter who can get his own shot too.

Vlade's checklist is going to be pretty long this summer.

 

[Glenn]

If the Kings decide that they are going to keep Rondo then I think Collison becomes an attractive trade piece.

He's one of the best backup PGs in the NBA but as an occasional spot starter and 12 mpg backup to Rondo I think he's better served being part of a trade package to bring back a SG, wing defender and/or stretch 4.

McLemore should be dealt. He won't net much but some team may still feel they can develop him and give the Kings back a piece they can use. Or he could thrown into a larger deal. Rudy should probably be dealt but only for a deal that makes sense.

Collison, McLemore, Gay and the 6th or 7th pick of the draft are decent pieces to dangle in order to reshape things.

Of course there's the distinct possibility that the Kings end up with a top 3 pick in the draft. In fact, the most Kangz thing I can imagine is finally winning the #1 overall pick and having to trade it with Philly. Still, if somehow the Kings did end up at #2 and #3 then maybe a guy like Ingram or Bender (who I haven't watched at all) become a bigger consideration than trading the pick for immediate help.

But if Rondo, Cauley-Stein and Cousins are three of the starters next year the team better have some wings that can shoot. And a SG who can defend, ideally both guard spots since Rajon seems allergic to defense these days.

And that still doesn't address who you turn to when you need a late game bucket. Cuz sure, but there better be a shooter who can get his own shot too.

Vlade's checklist is going to be pretty long this summer.

Let us pull off a magic trade of Collison/McLemore for a backup PG and a much better SG. It must be possible.

I am not as excited about Rondo as some but that may just an old fart being foolish. Whatever the team decides.

Indeed we need someone who commands respect as a finisher at the end of games other than Cuz. It's getting predictable unless that is the dullness of Karl. Why not give the ball to Rondo and let him have the option of passing to Gay? I've always wondered about that. No imagination from the coach.

Up to addressing pshn80's note, let's get a GM who then will pick the coach. Let's do it in proper order. Anyway, it is urgent. Let's get the pick of the litter on both. This is no time to go cheap.

 

[funkykingston]

Let us pull off a magic trade of Collison/McLemore for a backup PG and a much better SG. It must be possible.

If Rondo is the guy going forward then the backup PG spot is just a guy playing 12 minutes a game and starting when Rondo is injured. There are lots of guys that can fill that role. Ideally you'd want someone who gives you something different than Rondo - an aggressive defender or an outside shooter for instance. I'd love to have Curry back as the 3rd PG but I don't know if he's ready to be the backup PG.

The team definitely needs a new SG, but McLemore, Collison, Belinelli, Gay, the lottery pick and even Koufos can be dangled as trade bait. But unless a guy or two is traded for capspace the team won't be signing a starting SG if they pony up to keep Rondo.

Indeed we need someone who commands respect as a finisher at the end of games other than Cuz. It's getting predictable unless that is the dullness of Karl. Why not give the ball to Rondo and let him have the option of passing to Gay? I've always wondered about that. No imagination from the coach.

This is another place where Rondo's limitations come into play. I think most teams would live with Rondo taking the final shot. Or if the team is three points down they'd gladly foul Rondo knowing there's a good chance he'd only hit one of two from the line.

Up to addressing pshn80's note, let's get a GM who then will pick the coach. Let's do it in proper order. Anyway, it is urgent. Let's get the pick of the litter on both. This is no time to go cheap.

The Kings need a defensive coach that will focus the offense on getting the ball to Boogie at the elbow and in the post.

 

[swisshh]

• Why do people want to trade Darren? He's an great backup PG who can start for you when needed.

 

[funkykingston]

• Why do people want to trade Darren? He's an great backup PG who can start for you when needed.

I don't. In fact, I think I'd rather keep him and let Rondo walk. But if Rondo is brought back the Kings have a big hole at SG and not much caproom left. Darren is one of the few good trade assets the team has.