This is all really quite simple:
I have HOPE. That's not the part of sanity's post I was so vehemently objecting to. It's the other stuff...the part about the three all-stars, the idea that just bringing in a couple of "team players" will make it all better, etc. I won't even be dragged into the discussion of how good Webber was because he apparently is defining "superstar" differently than most of the rest of us. No problem.
Very good points, chelle. And again, it's not the "Hope" part of his post I'm objecting to. It's his rationale that sounds more like blind faith than hope...and I can't help but be puzzled by statements like:
Never good enough? That's insulting to the guys who played their hearts out in 2001-2002 and 2002-2003. It's a slap on the face, IMHO. It's saying, "Hey, you guys are losers."
Sorry, but I do not view my Kings that way.
I have HOPE. That's not the part of sanity's post I was so vehemently objecting to. It's the other stuff...the part about the three all-stars, the idea that just bringing in a couple of "team players" will make it all better, etc. I won't even be dragged into the discussion of how good Webber was because he apparently is defining "superstar" differently than most of the rest of us. No problem.
Very good points, chelle. And again, it's not the "Hope" part of his post I'm objecting to. It's his rationale that sounds more like blind faith than hope...and I can't help but be puzzled by statements like:
Never good enough? That's insulting to the guys who played their hearts out in 2001-2002 and 2002-2003. It's a slap on the face, IMHO. It's saying, "Hey, you guys are losers."
Sorry, but I do not view my Kings that way.
You do? I've been here nearly as long as you have, and I don't remember any such thing; what I remember was "Pollyanna" types being browbeat into hiding by a vocal minority... And then they went into hiding themselves... and now the once-positive posters have become negative/realistic... In fact, I'm a little surprised that they haven't returned to admire their handiwork; aside from the fact that we still hate Voisin around here, and many of us would like to see her dragged into the street and shot on the six o'clock news, this board has more or less turned into exactly what they said they wanted it to be.
As far as the thread topic... the Kings, as currently constructed, are about as close to being a title contender as the Hornets are to being a playoff team.
As far as the thread topic... the Kings, as currently constructed, are about as close to being a title contender as the Hornets are to being a playoff team.
See this is something that I don't get.
People think that if we somehow got KG we would be a contender immidiately. What a load of crap. KG alone can't do it. If you add KG to the current roster without losing any of the big 4 then you would be correct but to think that a combo or KG/Bibby or KG/Peja or KG/Miller is a contender is being ridicilous.
KG is NO saviour. He can't do it alone. He had a decent group around him this past season and couldn't even get them to the play offs.
Are we going to be contenders next year? NO. Are we going to be a good team but not a threat? Probably yes. Is that a good place to start rebuilding from? Hell yeah.
Yes I have hope that we will be a good team that on their night can beat anyone and also lose to anyone on any given night.
Someone asked why bother watching if we are not contenders, well because we are TRUE fans. If people follow us when we are contenders and not when we are not then they are not supporters they are BANDWAGONERS. Every true fan will support this team through thick and thin.
For all of you without hope, would you rather we are a basket case and NO hope of making the playoffs or being a good team that can make the play offs and maybe upset a team or two??????
People think that if we somehow got KG we would be a contender immidiately. What a load of crap. KG alone can't do it. If you add KG to the current roster without losing any of the big 4 then you would be correct but to think that a combo or KG/Bibby or KG/Peja or KG/Miller is a contender is being ridicilous.
KG is NO saviour. He can't do it alone. He had a decent group around him this past season and couldn't even get them to the play offs.
Are we going to be contenders next year? NO. Are we going to be a good team but not a threat? Probably yes. Is that a good place to start rebuilding from? Hell yeah.
Yes I have hope that we will be a good team that on their night can beat anyone and also lose to anyone on any given night.
Someone asked why bother watching if we are not contenders, well because we are TRUE fans. If people follow us when we are contenders and not when we are not then they are not supporters they are BANDWAGONERS. Every true fan will support this team through thick and thin.
For all of you without hope, would you rather we are a basket case and NO hope of making the playoffs or being a good team that can make the play offs and maybe upset a team or two??????
Man. Lotta b*thin going on here. What's wrong with a 50win playoff team. I know the team had a better record with Webber, but given a training camp and some time together I think the team as is(with MO and Darius) is about a 50win team. That's not bad. Maybe things click the right way and we make it to the 2nd round.
The thing that gets me down is injuries, other than that each and every Kings team since 99 has been entertaining. When Skinner was a defensive force the Kings were great to watch. It's not a sustainable thing, so what. They still trounced the Lakers and that always feels good.
I don't expect Petrie to stand pat, but this isn't a championship team. There's really only about 4 teams in the league that have that capacity. We used to be one, we aren't now. Maybe we'll luck into a great draft pick. Ben Wallace, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker(overrated), Gilbert Arenas, Brad Miller etc. They're all late picks. Maybe we'll luck out. If we don't, I'll be ok. I just want the team to play with some heart. Bring doug back for cap room next year, maybe we can get a 2nd round pick for it.
The thing that gets me down is injuries, other than that each and every Kings team since 99 has been entertaining. When Skinner was a defensive force the Kings were great to watch. It's not a sustainable thing, so what. They still trounced the Lakers and that always feels good.
I don't expect Petrie to stand pat, but this isn't a championship team. There's really only about 4 teams in the league that have that capacity. We used to be one, we aren't now. Maybe we'll luck into a great draft pick. Ben Wallace, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker(overrated), Gilbert Arenas, Brad Miller etc. They're all late picks. Maybe we'll luck out. If we don't, I'll be ok. I just want the team to play with some heart. Bring doug back for cap room next year, maybe we can get a 2nd round pick for it.
I miss the homer VF21, Willing to defend every King until her last breath, admitting realism only when forced, defender of newbies, banner of trolls, etc etc etc.
I'm all for realism and admitting that we are a borderline playoff team with 3 marginal all-stars and a couple oft-injured veterans with some unproven young guys thrown in but my favorite team is still the Sacramento Kings and sometimes its feels good to be a homer.
I'm all for realism and admitting that we are a borderline playoff team with 3 marginal all-stars and a couple oft-injured veterans with some unproven young guys thrown in but my favorite team is still the Sacramento Kings and sometimes its feels good to be a homer.
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T
Just trying to look at it realistically as you've advised me too. Realistically, only one team wins, so that makes every other team not good enough at that time. It is not a slap in the face, it is stating the obvious. Should I call them winners for losing....no. Did they play with heart...yes. Can I still HOPE for a better next season...yes. I find these futile attempts to change MY feelings of hope ludicrous.
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Brick, I'd like you to show me half the teams that have three players at their level. I'll do you the courtesy of showing you the teams/players that made it to their conference finals this years stats.
Spurs (manu, duncan, parker) ppg:52.9 rpg:19.2 apg:12.7
Pistons (wallace, billups, hamilton) ppg:44.9 rpg:19.5 apg:12.4
Suns (johnson, stoudamire, nash) ppg:58.6 rpg:17.3 apg:16.6
Miami (wade, e.jones, o'neal) ppg:59.7 rpg:20.7 apg: 12.2
Kings (bibby, stojackovic, miller) ppg:55.3 rpg 17.8, apg: 12.8
These three guys look just as solid on paper as any top team. I know you can't show defense on paper, which we all know they lack, but they do stack up pretty evenly. So in defense of my first post, this is why I have hope on building around this core.
Spurs (manu, duncan, parker) ppg:52.9 rpg:19.2 apg:12.7
Pistons (wallace, billups, hamilton) ppg:44.9 rpg:19.5 apg:12.4
Suns (johnson, stoudamire, nash) ppg:58.6 rpg:17.3 apg:16.6
Miami (wade, e.jones, o'neal) ppg:59.7 rpg:20.7 apg: 12.2
Kings (bibby, stojackovic, miller) ppg:55.3 rpg 17.8, apg: 12.8
These three guys look just as solid on paper as any top team. I know you can't show defense on paper, which we all know they lack, but they do stack up pretty evenly. So in defense of my first post, this is why I have hope on building around this core.
What he said. No one enjoys being on the decline, getting better is the key if you want to eventually win it all. And a team can stay at the plateau for awhile, as evidenced by repeat championships with little to no change in major personnel. We didn't get there and now it's time to revamp. Maybe it takes a year or two, but most of you have been around long enough to know it will happen again.
Faith: The evidence of things not yet seen and the HOPE of things yet to come. That's what makes Petrie so great, he acquired Brad and Bibby to our complete and total surprise, why not believe in something that has already happened once or twice? It's hard enough to believe in those things that have not yet happened!
Faith: The evidence of things not yet seen and the HOPE of things yet to come. That's what makes Petrie so great, he acquired Brad and Bibby to our complete and total surprise, why not believe in something that has already happened once or twice? It's hard enough to believe in those things that have not yet happened!
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You know? I actually thought about this post for quite a while.
My favorite team is still the Sacramento Kings. And it's precisely for that reason that I'm trying to be realistic. Geoff Petrie has his work cut out for him to get us a team that will be able to compete with the elite in the West. Can he do it? God, I hope so. The past couple of years have been trying - not because of the record of the team or the results in the playoffs but because of all the drama that has swirled around us like a dead goldfish in a toilet bowl on its way to its final resting place.
If I sound cynical, I guess it's because I'm just a little leery of having my heart ripped out again. I'd rather be just a little aloof, at least for now. And then, as TDOS progresses and Petrie is able to work even a little magic, I may actually begin to regain some of my optimism.
Two years ago some of the things about the Kings that I liked the most were:
1. Vlade Divac
2. Peja Stojakovic
3. Doug Christie
4. Chris Webber
5. Rick Adelman
6. team chemistry and camraderie
•Watching Vlade choose to go back to LA hurt, even though I knew it was most likely for the best.
•Reading - in a VOISIN article, for God's sake - that Peja wanted to be traded away from the Kings, the team that had brought him here and given him his chance in the NBA, was also painful. My honest heart-felt opinion was that he was stabbing all the fans in the back - those fans who had made it so obvious they would forgive him almost anything both for what he was capable of doing on any given night and for the thrills he brought to us with his magical, majestic threes from somewhere out near the popcorn stand.
•Seeing Doug tossed aside like an old shoe really hurt. That might have been close to a mortal blow. Christie - the ultimate King IMHO and the true core of any warrior mentality we might have had - was traded away for a shooter who couldn't defend and seemed more suited to Hollywood than Sacramento.
•Webber's trade - and this is just MY PERSONAL FEELING and not meant to imply anyone else has to feel the same - ripped my heart out.
•Seeing how often Rick Adelman has been belittled, underappreciated, etc. also just about broke my heart. The big target put on his back by a certain local sports columnist was so blatant it became almost embarrassing.
•The one thing that had always been there before - the feeling of "family" about our beloved Kings - disappeared. They were struggling for an identity and lost their unity in the process.
So, dear C Diddy and everyone else who thinks I've lost my passion for the team and my optimism, I can only say this:
No, it's not gone. It was dealt a crippling series of blows but I'm pretty sure it will be back. Now that the NBA Finals are over, I'm actually starting to look forward to seeing what GP can do... who he can bring to the team to get us pointed back in the right direction. If I've disappointed some of you with my less-than-Pollyana opinions, bear with me. I'll try to do better.
Because, bottom line...
I LOVE THIS TEAM!
My favorite team is still the Sacramento Kings. And it's precisely for that reason that I'm trying to be realistic. Geoff Petrie has his work cut out for him to get us a team that will be able to compete with the elite in the West. Can he do it? God, I hope so. The past couple of years have been trying - not because of the record of the team or the results in the playoffs but because of all the drama that has swirled around us like a dead goldfish in a toilet bowl on its way to its final resting place.
If I sound cynical, I guess it's because I'm just a little leery of having my heart ripped out again. I'd rather be just a little aloof, at least for now. And then, as TDOS progresses and Petrie is able to work even a little magic, I may actually begin to regain some of my optimism.
Two years ago some of the things about the Kings that I liked the most were:
1. Vlade Divac
2. Peja Stojakovic
3. Doug Christie
4. Chris Webber
5. Rick Adelman
6. team chemistry and camraderie
•Watching Vlade choose to go back to LA hurt, even though I knew it was most likely for the best.
•Reading - in a VOISIN article, for God's sake - that Peja wanted to be traded away from the Kings, the team that had brought him here and given him his chance in the NBA, was also painful. My honest heart-felt opinion was that he was stabbing all the fans in the back - those fans who had made it so obvious they would forgive him almost anything both for what he was capable of doing on any given night and for the thrills he brought to us with his magical, majestic threes from somewhere out near the popcorn stand.
•Seeing Doug tossed aside like an old shoe really hurt. That might have been close to a mortal blow. Christie - the ultimate King IMHO and the true core of any warrior mentality we might have had - was traded away for a shooter who couldn't defend and seemed more suited to Hollywood than Sacramento.
•Webber's trade - and this is just MY PERSONAL FEELING and not meant to imply anyone else has to feel the same - ripped my heart out.
•Seeing how often Rick Adelman has been belittled, underappreciated, etc. also just about broke my heart. The big target put on his back by a certain local sports columnist was so blatant it became almost embarrassing.
•The one thing that had always been there before - the feeling of "family" about our beloved Kings - disappeared. They were struggling for an identity and lost their unity in the process.
So, dear C Diddy and everyone else who thinks I've lost my passion for the team and my optimism, I can only say this:
No, it's not gone. It was dealt a crippling series of blows but I'm pretty sure it will be back. Now that the NBA Finals are over, I'm actually starting to look forward to seeing what GP can do... who he can bring to the team to get us pointed back in the right direction. If I've disappointed some of you with my less-than-Pollyana opinions, bear with me. I'll try to do better.
Because, bottom line...
I LOVE THIS TEAM!
I owe you an apology for not making my objections clearer. Of course you have the right to have hope...
What I find fault with sometimes is your justifications for some things. Like above, for example.
To you it's just about winning or losing. To me it's also about how you played the game. As an example, if I was a Piston fan right now I would, of course, be very disappointed that my team hadn't won it all for the second time in a row. I would not be calling them losers however. They fought the good fight. At the end, they were simply out-played by a better team. To me, there's no shame in that whatsoever and I would still be very proud of them for what they DID accomplish...
We're both Kings fans... luckily we can disagree about the details while still agreeing with the bottom line.
What I find fault with sometimes is your justifications for some things. Like above, for example.
To you it's just about winning or losing. To me it's also about how you played the game. As an example, if I was a Piston fan right now I would, of course, be very disappointed that my team hadn't won it all for the second time in a row. I would not be calling them losers however. They fought the good fight. At the end, they were simply out-played by a better team. To me, there's no shame in that whatsoever and I would still be very proud of them for what they DID accomplish...
We're both Kings fans... luckily we can disagree about the details while still agreeing with the bottom line.
T
This may sound weird but I could actually care less if they win or lose. More than anything, I enjoy just watching them play. I have a life after the Kings. I've watched them when they were terrible and I've watched them when they were stellar, and I watched them with the same passion. It's hardly about winning titles, if it were, I wouldn't be a Kings fan. I was drawn to the style of ball they play. The comment you quoted was just stating the obvious, I never called them losers, but they did lose. I have blind optimism, not blind faith, when it comes to the Kings, and I enjoy it. After all, its only a game.
I think the one thing we all lvoed about this team was the fact they were a TEAM above all else. That has been lost with all the changes but we can get it back. That is my hope. It really hit me in the playoffs when our "team" hadn't even played together as a unit. It may take time, all good things do and there are many pieces of the puzzle that need to be put together and despite some questionable decisions by Petrie(IMO) I have faith and hope that he can put this puzzle back together, with different pieces of course. He's done it before, he can do it again and hopefully he can bring us a ring also. If not, I'll still be here, laughing and crying, that's what this "team" is all about.