Rebuilding Around Cousins

[hrdboild]

THE PROBLEM: Barring some miraculous turnaround, it seems that we've settled into another season where we're just not talented enough to compete for a playoff spot. Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Omri Casspi, and Ben McLemore are all set to become free agents at the end of the year. McLemore will have Restricted status but he's the player we're least likely to re-sign given how many needs we have at other positions. When the dust settles, we'll have DeMarcus Cousins (under contract for 1 more year) plus WCS, Garrett Temple, Kosta Koufos and a fleet of rookies.

If we're not planning to trade Cousins, then we need to start unloading all of our expiring assets ASAP while it's still early enough in the season for them to be worth something. So that's the plan. There's only one way for this to work for me: I'm looking for young players I can slot into the starting rotation who will compliment Cousins. I want to create the best defensive starting lineup I can around him and I'm going to be targeting specific players who I think are obtainable and super-talented. Anyone who's familiar with my comments can probably guess who those players are going to be...

TARGET #1: Stanley Johnson (or, draft regrets vol. 1)

Rudy Gay (13.3M + 14.2M Player Option)
Ben McLemore (4M Restricted FA)

for

Stanley Johnson (3M + 3.1M + 4M)
Aron Baynes (6.5M + 6.5M Player Option)
Boban Marjanovic (7M + 7M + 7M)

The writing is on the wall regarding Rudy Gay -- he will not be a part of this team in the future. I don't know if he has much trade value though because he's an expiring contract (95% chance he opts out of that player option for a long-term deal) and has a reputation for putting up numbers without helping a team win. The only teams that might be interested are playoff teams who can use an additional scorer and SF/PF depth.

I think most Pistons fans would scoff at trading Stanley Johnson for half a year of Gay and McLemore but look at it from Stan Van Gundy's point of view: his team is clinging to the last playoff spot in the East right now and he's got nobody who can give him solid SG minutes off the bench. Baynes is mediocre roster filler and he's probably gone at the end of the year anyway. Marjanovic is a long-term project who isn't contributing this season. Stanley Johnson has played himself out of the rotation completely. So he's trading 3 guys who are barely contributing at all right now for a proven 20ppg scorer and a competent bench SG who can both slot into the rotation right away. There's no long-term risk as he can cut ties with both of them at the end of the season if he prefers and he's just cleared as much as 16.6 million off the salary cap. McLemore is still only 23 and he'll be a Restricted Free Agent at the end of the year which partially offsets the loss of the two development projects he's giving up.

For the Kings -- this should be obvious. Neither of these players is likely to come back next season. Temple, Bogdanovic, and Richardson are all going to be fighting for roster spots and Ben, as a free agent, is likely to be the odd man out. We need to replace Rudy Gay somehow and while Johnson is a mess offensively right now, his defense is still consistently strong. It'd be a different look for us, losing our second scorer and two of the most consistent shooters on a roster that already has problems in that area. If we're committed to becoming a defensive team though, we need to develop someone who can give us strong defense on the wing every night. Baynes is salary filler. He could potentially replace Kosta though if we want to trade him mid-season too. Marjanovic is a huge Serbian center who's in the NBA mostly because he's 7'3". We already have Vlade and Peja with Bogdanovic expected to come over next year, why not add another Serbian player to the gang? We could always use another big body on the bench.

Updated rotations:

DETROIT
Reggie Jackson/Ish Smith/Beno Udrih
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope/Ben McLemore
Tobias Harris/Rudy Gay
Marcus Morris/Jon Leuer
Andre Drummond/Henry Ellenson

SACRAMENTO
Darren Collison/Ty Lawson
Garrett Temple/Arron Afflalo
Stanley Johnson/Omri Casspi
Anthony Tolliver/Willie Cauley-Stein
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos

TARGET #2: Nerlens Noel (or, draft regrets vol. 2)

Darren Collison (5.2M)
Omri Casspi (3M)
Willie Cauley-Stein (3.5M + 3.7M + 4.7M)

for

Nerlens Noel (4.3M Restricted FA)
Trade Exceptions for Omri and Darren

Philadelphia is in an awkward position with Nerlens Noel. He's about to become a Restricted FA and he's not happy sharing minutes with Embiid, Okafor, and Saric. When Noel has been healthy, he's been one of the best defenders in the league so they're going to have to decide if they want to match a very big offer sheet for a player who's often injured, wants to be traded, and won't be playing big minutes anymore anyway with Embiid, Saric, and Okafor sharing the PF/C positions. It really just comes down to what other teams are willing to offer...

Is this a strong enough offer to get it done? I'm not sure. They still need help at PG and Collison is a pretty good one but his contract is expiring. The Omri Casspi who shot 40% from three the last two years would be a solid addition for any team but he's struggled this season so far and he's also going to be a free agent at the end of the year. The main get here would be Cauley-Stein who's a bit of a poor man's Noel but has 2 more years left on his rookie deal. He makes more sense for them than Noel does as a defensive 7 footer off the bench because he isn't going to command a huge salary and he doesn't have the same injury concerns.

Basically this comes down to what Bryan (and Jerry) Colangelo want to do next with the Sixers. Hinkie only deals Noel for picks but the Colangelos have said that they want to make the team competitive. Collison and Casspi help them this season -- which hurts their draft stock but may help with ticket sales. Cauley-Stein is a long-term asset to replace Noel but he's not showing us a lot right now so it's a gamble on future development. The one wrinkle in our favor, ironically, is the pick swap we already owe to Philadelphia this year. Trading three for one into their excess cap space probably guarantees a high draft pick for Sacramento (we'd be losing our starting PG and backup SF not to mention losing Rudy and Ben in the previous trade) and that means more ping pong balls for the Sixers.

Updated rotations:

PHILADELPHIA
Darren Collison/Sergio Rodriguez
Gerald Henderson/Nik Stauskas
(Ben Simmons)/Omri Casspi
Ersan Ilyasova/Dario Saric/Richaun Holmes
Joel Embiid/Jahlil Okafor/Willie Cauley-Stein

SACRAMENTO
Ty Lawson/Jordan Farmar?
Garrett Temple/Arron Afflalo
Stanley Johnson/Malachi Richardson
Nerlens Noel/Anthony Tolliver
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos

The PG position looks pretty bleak as does the bench production but we're not going to be able to make enough moves mid-season with this roster to make the playoffs anyway. So if we can't position ourselves to win right now, we can at least position ourselves to win in the future. Lawson, Tolliver, and Afflalo are all gone at the end of the season. Aron Baynes is probably going to opt out of his player option. I would also try to trade Kosta Koufos somewhere before the trade deadline to clear his salary off the books and open up playing time for the two huge foreign born centers enforcers we just acquired.

We're probably targeting a PG in the draft -- somewhere in the 5-10 range most likely -- and we should also be looking to sign a veteran in free agency to help to ease the rookie along slowly or give us good bench minutes if they're ready to start right away.

Updated roster before 2017 Draft and Free Agency:

PG:
SG:....G. Temple, B. Bogdanovic
SF:....S. Johnson, M. Richardson
PF:....N. Noel, S. Labissiere
C:......D. Cousins, B. Marjanovic, G. Papagiannis

[My Rough Estimate of available cap space: 22.8 million]*

*Includes buyouts for Tolliver (2), Afflalo (1.5), and Butler (.5) plus 4 million dollar starting rookie salary for first round pick, plus 18 million dollar estimated starting salary for Noel's new contract, plus 12 million dollar estimated starting salary for Bogdanovic's contract. I don't know what to do about Matt Barnes (6.4 player option) so I'm just ignoring him for now. Salary cap figure used was 102 million.)

Remarkably, everyone is gone now from last year's George Karl coached team except for DeMarcus. The draft is a whole other topic which is going to be beaten to death throughout the season so I'll just say here that Dennis Smith (NC State), Markelle Fultz (Wash), Lonzo Ball (UCLA), and De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky) look like possible targets at PG so those are guys to watch this year. There's also the French PG Frank Ntilikina who's getting limited minutes off the bench right now in the French League as an 18 year old.

A lot depends on who we get to fill out that PG position obviously, but that's a starting lineup that I can see dominating games defensively. If you get a strong defender at the PG position too then there are no weak links on the court. How good can they be offensively though? There's a lot of factors to consider. Noel is good for about 10 points per game off of hustle plays and ugly post-ups but Cousins as a top 5 scorer more than makes up for him. You can potentially move Bogdanovic or Richardson into the starting lineup at SG if you need more offense. Stanley Johnson has to develop into more of a go-to scorer for this to work but he's been able to do that at every other level (HS, college, summer league, D-League) so I think it's mostly a matter of being patient with him until he adjusts to the NBA.

I know you all just skipped to the bottom to look at the roster and shook your heads no when you saw Nerlens "No Knees" Noel and Stanley "The Bricklayer" Johnson in my starting lineup but I think that's going to be a very strong group of players for Dave Joerger to mold into a defensive juggernaut. They may not score a lot of points but they'll sure make the other team miserable for 48 minutes. And you know I'm all for making others miserable!

 

[Hoovtrain]

Not bad. I'd do both trades

 

[Jimbob]

I actually like it a lot, an all defensive team. Do you think Vlade has the savvy to contruct such a trade.?

Someone also posted a 3 team scenario that brings us Wall, however it guts most this team, not necessarly a bad thing, and Im not convinced Washinton would be interested.

I would also be happy to see us trade for Payne or Rozier.

 

[KingMilz]

I have never seen a player of Stanley Johnson's ability go through such a confidence crisis like the guy in the 5-10 games l watched literally can't pass or dribble I really hope he gets it together soon and would do those trades.

 

[dude12]

THE PROBLEM: Barring some miraculous turnaround, it seems that we've settled into another season where we're just not talented enough to compete for a playoff spot. Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Omri Casspi, and Ben McLemore are all set to become free agents at the end of the year. McLemore will have Restricted status but he's the player we're least likely to re-sign given how many needs we have at other positions. When the dust settles, we'll have DeMarcus Cousins (under contract for 1 more year) plus WCS, Garrett Temple, Kosta Koufos and a fleet of rookies.

If we're not planning to trade Cousins, then we need to start unloading all of our expiring assets ASAP while it's still early enough in the season for them to be worth something. So that's the plan. There's only one way for this to work for me: I'm looking for young players I can slot into the starting rotation who will compliment Cousins. I want to create the best defensive starting lineup I can around him and I'm going to be targeting specific players who I think are obtainable and super-talented. Anyone who's familiar with my comments can probably guess who those players are going to be...

TARGET #1: Stanley Johnson (or, draft regrets vol. 1)

Rudy Gay (13.3M + 14.2M Player Option)
Ben McLemore (4M Restricted FA)

for

Stanley Johnson (3M + 3.1M + 4M)
Aron Baynes (6.5M + 6.5M Player Option)
Boban Marjanovic (7M + 7M + 7M)

The writing is on the wall regarding Rudy Gay -- he will not be a part of this team in the future. I don't know if he has much trade value though because he's an expiring contract (95% chance he opts out of that player option for a long-term deal) and has a reputation for putting up numbers without helping a team win. The only teams that might be interested are playoff teams who can use an additional scorer and SF/PF depth.

I think most Pistons fans would scoff at trading Stanley Johnson for half a year of Gay and McLemore but look at it from Stan Van Gundy's point of view: his team is clinging to the last playoff spot in the East right now and he's got nobody who can give him solid SG minutes off the bench. Baynes is mediocre roster filler and he's probably gone at the end of the year anyway. Marjanovic is a long-term project who isn't contributing this season. Stanley Johnson has played himself out of the rotation completely. So he's trading 3 guys who are barely contributing at all right now for a proven 20ppg scorer and a competent bench SG who can both slot into the rotation right away. There's no long-term risk as he can cut ties with both of them at the end of the season if he prefers and he's just cleared as much as 16.6 million off the salary cap. McLemore is still only 23 and he'll be a Restricted Free Agent at the end of the year which partially offsets the loss of the two development projects he's giving up.

For the Kings -- this should be obvious. Neither of these players is likely to come back next season. Temple, Bogdanovic, and Richardson are all going to be fighting for roster spots and Ben, as a free agent, is likely to be the odd man out. We need to replace Rudy Gay somehow and while Johnson is a mess offensively right now, his defense is still consistently strong. It'd be a different look for us, losing our second scorer and two of the most consistent shooters on a roster that already has problems in that area. If we're committed to becoming a defensive team though, we need to develop someone who can give us strong defense on the wing every night. Baynes is salary filler. He could potentially replace Kosta though if we want to trade him mid-season too. Marjanovic is a huge Serbian center who's in the NBA mostly because he's 7'3". We already have Vlade and Peja with Bogdanovic expected to come over next year, why not add another Serbian player to the gang? We could always use another big body on the bench.

Updated rotations:

DETROIT
Reggie Jackson/Ish Smith/Beno Udrih
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope/Ben McLemore
Tobias Harris/Rudy Gay
Marcus Morris/Jon Leuer
Andre Drummond/Henry Ellenson

SACRAMENTO
Darren Collison/Ty Lawson
Garrett Temple/Arron Afflalo
Stanley Johnson/Omri Casspi
Anthony Tolliver/Willie Cauley-Stein
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos

TARGET #2: Nerlens Noel (or, draft regrets vol. 2)

Darren Collison (5.2M)
Omri Casspi (3M)
Willie Cauley-Stein (3.5M + 3.7M + 4.7M)

for

Nerlens Noel (4.3M Restricted FA)
Trade Exceptions for Omri and Darren

Philadelphia is in an awkward position with Nerlens Noel. He's about to become a Restricted FA and he's not happy sharing minutes with Embiid, Okafor, and Saric. When Noel has been healthy, he's been one of the best defenders in the league so they're going to have to decide if they want to match a very big offer sheet for a player who's often injured, wants to be traded, and won't be playing big minutes anymore anyway with Embiid, Saric, and Okafor sharing the PF/C positions. It really just comes down to what other teams are willing to offer...

Is this a strong enough offer to get it done? I'm not sure. They still need help at PG and Collison is a pretty good one but his contract is expiring. The Omri Casspi who shot 40% from three the last two years would be a solid addition for any team but he's struggled this season so far and he's also going to be a free agent at the end of the year. The main get here would be Cauley-Stein who's a bit of a poor man's Noel but has 2 more years left on his rookie deal. He makes more sense for them than Noel does as a defensive 7 footer off the bench because he isn't going to command a huge salary and he doesn't have the same injury concerns.

Basically this comes down to what Bryan (and Jerry) Colangelo want to do next with the Sixers. Hinkie only deals Noel for picks but the Colangelos have said that they want to make the team competitive. Collison and Casspi help them this season -- which hurts their draft stock but may help with ticket sales. Cauley-Stein is a long-term asset to replace Noel but he's not showing us a lot right now so it's a gamble on future development. The one wrinkle in our favor, ironically, is the pick swap we already owe to Philadelphia this year. Trading three for one into their excess cap space probably guarantees a high draft pick for Sacramento (we'd be losing our starting PG and backup SF not to mention losing Rudy and Ben in the previous trade) and that means more ping pong balls for the Sixers.

Updated rotations:

PHILADELPHIA
Darren Collison/Sergio Rodriguez
Gerald Henderson/Nik Stauskas
(Ben Simmons)/Omri Casspi
Ersan Ilyasova/Dario Saric/Richaun Holmes
Joel Embiid/Jahlil Okafor/Willie Cauley-Stein

SACRAMENTO
Ty Lawson/Jordan Farmar?
Garrett Temple/Arron Afflalo
Stanley Johnson/Malachi Richardson
Nerlens Noel/Anthony Tolliver
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos

The PG position looks pretty bleak as does the bench production but we're not going to be able to make enough moves mid-season with this roster to make the playoffs anyway. So if we can't position ourselves to win right now, we can at least position ourselves to win in the future. Lawson, Tolliver, and Afflalo are all gone at the end of the season. Aron Baynes is probably going to opt out of his player option. I would also try to trade Kosta Koufos somewhere before the trade deadline to clear his salary off the books and open up playing time for the two huge foreign born centers enforcers we just acquired.

We're probably targeting a PG in the draft -- somewhere in the 5-10 range most likely -- and we should also be looking to sign a veteran in free agency to help to ease the rookie along slowly or give us good bench minutes if they're ready to start right away.

Updated roster before 2017 Draft and Free Agency:

PG:
SG:....G. Temple, B. Bogdanovic
SF:....S. Johnson, M. Richardson
PF:....N. Noel, S. Labissiere
C:......D. Cousins, B. Marjanovic, G. Papagiannis

[My Rough Estimate of available cap space: 22.8 million]*

*Includes buyouts for Tolliver (2), Afflalo (1.5), and Butler (.5) plus 4 million dollar starting rookie salary for first round pick, plus 18 million dollar estimated starting salary for Noel's new contract, plus 12 million dollar estimated starting salary for Bogdanovic's contract. I don't know what to do about Matt Barnes (6.4 player option) so I'm just ignoring him for now. Salary cap figure used was 102 million.)

Remarkably, everyone is gone now from last year's George Karl coached team except for DeMarcus. The draft is a whole other topic which is going to be beaten to death throughout the season so I'll just say here that Dennis Smith (NC State), Markelle Fultz (Wash), Lonzo Ball (UCLA), and De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky) look like possible targets at PG so those are guys to watch this year. There's also the French PG Frank Ntilikina who's getting limited minutes off the bench right now in the French League as an 18 year old.

A lot depends on who we get to fill out that PG position obviously, but that's a starting lineup that I can see dominating games defensively. If you get a strong defender at the PG position too then there are no weak links on the court. How good can they be offensively though? There's a lot of factors to consider. Noel is good for about 10 points per game off of hustle plays and ugly post-ups but Cousins as a top 5 scorer more than makes up for him. You can potentially move Bogdanovic or Richardson into the starting lineup at SG if you need more offense. Stanley Johnson has to develop into more of a go-to scorer for this to work but he's been able to do that at every other level (HS, college, summer league, D-League) so I think it's mostly a matter of being patient with him until he adjusts to the NBA.

I know you all just skipped to the bottom to look at the roster and shook your heads no when you saw Nerlens "No Knees" Noel and Stanley "The Bricklayer" Johnson in my starting lineup but I think that's going to be a very strong group of players for Dave Joerger to mold into a defensive juggernaut. They may not score a lot of points but they'll sure make the other team miserable for 48 minutes. And you know I'm all for making others miserable!

I know you have been a big Stanley Johnson supporter since the draft. Why do you think he's lost playing time this year? I don't watch Detroit, so am curious.

 

[hrdboild]

I know you have been a big Stanley Johnson supporter since the draft. Why do you think he's lost playing time this year? I don't watch Detroit, so am curious.

Good question!

I think it's just a classic case of a coach and a player not being on the same page. We've seen it so many times here with different players over the years. Jason Thompson had some crazy streak of like 6 straight seasons starting out in the coach's doghouse and yet he still managed to play himself into the rotation every year. Johnson was a big part of that team last season. He played more minutes than anyone else off the bench and actually did a good job guarding Lebron in their playoff series. He probably expected to pick up where he left off this season but Van Gundy asked him to work on his shooting and his ball-handling and wasn't satisfied with his progress in the off-season so he got his minutes cut. He was also playing through some injury issues early in the year. To a certain extent you'll take whatever you can get from a rookie and his defense kept him on the floor last year, but year 2 there's a little more accountability and he's struggled trying to figure out what Van Gundy wants him to do (which is to contribute more offensively without losing the defensive energy -- easier said than done). Also if you look at the team situation, Detroit is only allowing 96 points per game which is second best in the league. They're having trouble scoring though which means Johnson's defense isn't going to keep him on the floor right now if he can't make a shot. Ish Smith got a head start on the bench minutes because of Reggie Jackson's injury and Jon Leuer is a 5 year veteran they signed to a $40 million dollar deal in the off-season to take over as de-facto sixth man so Stanley just got squeezed out.

Listen to what Van Gundy has to say about him:

Reading between the lines a bit... I think you have a case of a young player who really wants a bigger role but the shots aren't dropping for him so he's frustrated. Also, his coach/GM brought in Tobias Harris last season at the trade-deadline so he's already seen his path into the starting lineup cut off for the next 3 years. He was a bit of an irrational confidence guy last year at Arizona and during the draft process and that rubbed some people the wrong way. There's been some back and forth in the media between Stan and Stanley about his work-ethic or coach-ability which is never a good sign, but I think that points back to the same issue. Stanley Johnson wants to be the next Lebron and his coach just wants a solid role-player to give him some consistent minutes off the bench. At this point I think he's trying too hard to play himself back into a heavy minutes role and that's resulting in a lot of mental mistakes. They sent him down to the D-League this week and he scored 26 points in his first game there so he didn't forget how to play. I like Stanley's game so much that's its difficult for me to see this as anything more than a bump in the road, but I'm not in the locker room or on the practice court seeing what goes on between the games so I can't definitively say that my take on it is accurate. I still think he can be a 20ppg scorer as he develops if he gets enough touches though. He's got a big strong body and he can create his own shots and get to the line. Generally that's what you need to reach that level.

 

[hrdboild]

I actually like it a lot, an all defensive team. Do you think Vlade has the savvy to contruct such a trade.?

The savvy? Yes. He's got good people working for him too. But I don't know that he values Stanley Johnson and Nerlens Noel as highly as I do. I would give up everyone on the roster not named DeMarcus Cousins to get those two players because I think Johnson is going to be a 2-way star at SF and I think Noel is going to win multiple DPOY awards if he ever ends up on a winning team. Vlade already had a shot at drafting Stanley Johnson just a year and a half ago and passed on him so I don't know. We were on the same page with the Rondo/Butler/Belinelli signings last year and also dumping Belinelli for a draft pick after he failed to fulfill his role as a three-point specialist. I'm definitely not on the same page with his signings this off-season, but 2 of them are smart opt-out deals so there's no long-term damage. Matt Barnes and Ty Lawson are the only ones I'm actually mad about. And the 2016 draft could actually end up being a big win for him.

Also it's important to point out that Stan Van Gundy hasn't said anything yet to indicate that he'd even consider a Stanley Johnson trade right now. I'm just sensing an opportunity to snatch him now while there appears to be a little bit of doubt creeping into his mind about Stanley's future. Hit him hard with Rudy Gay's positives -- another proven scorer, another big bodied SF/PF to match up against Lebron in the playoffs. Try to tempt him with a Ben McLemore reclamation project while his SG play off the bench is non-existent and none of his vets can hit a three. He could easily say no to this offer. I know Philly fans still think they can get a proven player in exchange for Nerlens Noel but he's had so many injuries and his contract is up at the end of the year so he's not going to be cheap any longer. That pushes his current trade value pretty low even though he's lived up to expectations on the court. You know some team in the league is going to look at his per36 numbers and go hog-wild on an offer next summer. My estimate of $18 million per year may be on the low end of what he's worth. That's a big commitment and it carries a fair amount of risk (he hasn't even played yet this season) so I can understand why no deal has materialized so far. But it's hard to give up on talent so it wouldn't surprise me if Colangelo ultimately does nothing and tries to put together a meager sign-and-trade scenario during free agency instead. Or heck, maybe he matches any offer and you end up with a situation where nobody is happy.

 

[pshn80]

Rebuild around Cuz without a trade and right now. Existing roster.

Staters:
C - Cuz
PF- Casspi
SF- Gay
SG- Tolliver
PG- Lawson

Backups:
C - Koufos
PF- Carly-Stein
SF- Barnes
SG- Temple
PG- Collison

Bench:
McLemore
Afflalo

The more I ponder it the more I like it.

 

[Jimbob]

Reasons I like your trade idea. The Kings need a major overhaul with a solid plan in mind. This is a defensive first move yet it preserves all the current pieces that I would like to keep, Joerger should love this group. Your targeting potentially very good players while their value is low. We should show promise and direction this year while still remaining bad enough to keep our pick in a very deep draft.

It may lack scoring punch. but we are looking at Bogdan next year and our draft pick should be a PG that is capable of scoring.

As far as FA's not being interested in Sacramento, I recon a lot of that has to do with being a directionless ship. Its been years of throwing pieces together, none of which has worked. The day it looks like we are putting something decent and coherent together I recon Sacramento will become a desirable destination.

 

[funkykingston]

Rebuild around Cuz without a trade and right now. Existing roster.

Staters:
C - Cuz
PF- Casspi
SF- Gay
SG- Tolliver
PG- Lawson

Backups:
C - Koufos
PF- Carly-Stein
SF- Barnes
SG- Temple
PG- Collison

Bench:
McLemore
Afflalo

The more I ponder it the more I like it.

Tolliver is a PF, not a SG.

That said, I'd like to see the Kings start Cousins, Gay, Temple and Collison. The fourth starter in my mind should be either Casspi or Cauley-Stein.

Omri gives more offense and spacing, WCS provides more defense. Plus Willie's rebounding has been anemic and he doesn't provide much offense which are two things that can be much more easily covered if he's playing alongside Cousins instead of replacing Boogie off the bench.

 

[pshn80]

Tolliver is a PF, not a SG.

That said, I'd like to see the Kings start Cousins, Gay, Temple and Collison. The fourth starter in my mind should be either Casspi or Cauley-Stein.

Omri gives more offense and spacing, WCS provides more defense. Plus Willie's rebounding has been anemic and he doesn't provide much offense which are two things that can be much more easily covered if he's playing alongside Cousins instead of replacing Boogie off the bench.

I know Tolliver is a PF. Then use the same lineup and let either Gay or Casspi play SG. Try it. Like Lawson with them because he doesn't shoot much and has the edge on getting the ball to 3 (Tolliver, Gay and Casspi) 3p shooters and the lineup allows Cuz to play more down low.

 

[dude12]

Rebuild around Cuz without a trade and right now. Existing roster.

Staters:
C - Cuz
PF- Casspi
SF- Gay
SG- Tolliver
PG- Lawson

Backups:
C - Koufos
PF- Carly-Stein
SF- Barnes
SG- Temple
PG- Collison

Bench:
McLemore
Afflalo

The more I ponder it the more I like it.

He used a version of that in the second half at NY but with Barnes and DC instead of Tolliver and Lawson. It was very successful.

 

[funkykingston]

I know Tolliver is a PF. Then use the same lineup and let either Gay or Casspi play SG. Try it. Like Lawson with them because he doesn't shoot much and has the edge on getting the ball to 3 (Tolliver, Gay and Casspi) 3p shooters and the lineup allows Cuz to play more down low.

Gay would be the only one of the three who would have much of a chance of guarding opposing SGs.

I did like that lineup with Collison against the Knicks.

 

[kupman]

Tolliver is a PF, not a SG.

That said, I'd like to see the Kings start Cousins, Gay, Temple and Collison. The fourth starter in my mind should be either Casspi or Cauley-Stein.

Omri gives more offense and spacing, WCS provides more defense. Plus Willie's rebounding has been anemic and he doesn't provide much offense which are two things that can be much more easily covered if he's playing alongside Cousins instead of replacing Boogie off the bench.

Anyway you shake it 1) our guard court stinks and 2) DMC and Gay have no idea how to play with each other.

 

[kingsboi]

Stanley Johnson has gone from playing 23 minutes a game last season, to nearly 13 minutes this season. He showed nice flashes last season and I would be on board with making a call to Detroit to see if they can attain his services. I like the Noel deal even more though, he is a defensive menace at times, I love his motor and shot blocking ability, even if he can't score much. I feel however that the asking price is way too high for a lot of teams so I don't see the Kings pulling the trigger on that.

 

[206Fan]

THE PROBLEM: Barring some miraculous turnaround, it seems that we've settled into another season where we're just not talented enough to compete for a playoff spot. Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Omri Casspi, and Ben McLemore are all set to become free agents at the end of the year. McLemore will have Restricted status but he's the player we're least likely to re-sign given how many needs we have at other positions. When the dust settles, we'll have DeMarcus Cousins (under contract for 1 more year) plus WCS, Garrett Temple, Kosta Koufos and a fleet of rookies.

If we're not planning to trade Cousins, then we need to start unloading all of our expiring assets ASAP while it's still early enough in the season for them to be worth something. So that's the plan. There's only one way for this to work for me: I'm looking for young players I can slot into the starting rotation who will compliment Cousins. I want to create the best defensive starting lineup I can around him and I'm going to be targeting specific players who I think are obtainable and super-talented. Anyone who's familiar with my comments can probably guess who those players are going to be...

TARGET #1: Stanley Johnson (or, draft regrets vol. 1)

Rudy Gay (13.3M + 14.2M Player Option)
Ben McLemore (4M Restricted FA)

for

Stanley Johnson (3M + 3.1M + 4M)
Aron Baynes (6.5M + 6.5M Player Option)
Boban Marjanovic (7M + 7M + 7M)

The writing is on the wall regarding Rudy Gay -- he will not be a part of this team in the future. I don't know if he has much trade value though because he's an expiring contract (95% chance he opts out of that player option for a long-term deal) and has a reputation for putting up numbers without helping a team win. The only teams that might be interested are playoff teams who can use an additional scorer and SF/PF depth.

I think most Pistons fans would scoff at trading Stanley Johnson for half a year of Gay and McLemore but look at it from Stan Van Gundy's point of view: his team is clinging to the last playoff spot in the East right now and he's got nobody who can give him solid SG minutes off the bench. Baynes is mediocre roster filler and he's probably gone at the end of the year anyway. Marjanovic is a long-term project who isn't contributing this season. Stanley Johnson has played himself out of the rotation completely. So he's trading 3 guys who are barely contributing at all right now for a proven 20ppg scorer and a competent bench SG who can both slot into the rotation right away. There's no long-term risk as he can cut ties with both of them at the end of the season if he prefers and he's just cleared as much as 16.6 million off the salary cap. McLemore is still only 23 and he'll be a Restricted Free Agent at the end of the year which partially offsets the loss of the two development projects he's giving up.

For the Kings -- this should be obvious. Neither of these players is likely to come back next season. Temple, Bogdanovic, and Richardson are all going to be fighting for roster spots and Ben, as a free agent, is likely to be the odd man out. We need to replace Rudy Gay somehow and while Johnson is a mess offensively right now, his defense is still consistently strong. It'd be a different look for us, losing our second scorer and two of the most consistent shooters on a roster that already has problems in that area. If we're committed to becoming a defensive team though, we need to develop someone who can give us strong defense on the wing every night. Baynes is salary filler. He could potentially replace Kosta though if we want to trade him mid-season too. Marjanovic is a huge Serbian center who's in the NBA mostly because he's 7'3". We already have Vlade and Peja with Bogdanovic expected to come over next year, why not add another Serbian player to the gang? We could always use another big body on the bench.

Updated rotations:

DETROIT
Reggie Jackson/Ish Smith/Beno Udrih
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope/Ben McLemore
Tobias Harris/Rudy Gay
Marcus Morris/Jon Leuer
Andre Drummond/Henry Ellenson

SACRAMENTO
Darren Collison/Ty Lawson
Garrett Temple/Arron Afflalo
Stanley Johnson/Omri Casspi
Anthony Tolliver/Willie Cauley-Stein
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos

TARGET #2: Nerlens Noel (or, draft regrets vol. 2)

Darren Collison (5.2M)
Omri Casspi (3M)
Willie Cauley-Stein (3.5M + 3.7M + 4.7M)

for

Nerlens Noel (4.3M Restricted FA)
Trade Exceptions for Omri and Darren

Philadelphia is in an awkward position with Nerlens Noel. He's about to become a Restricted FA and he's not happy sharing minutes with Embiid, Okafor, and Saric. When Noel has been healthy, he's been one of the best defenders in the league so they're going to have to decide if they want to match a very big offer sheet for a player who's often injured, wants to be traded, and won't be playing big minutes anymore anyway with Embiid, Saric, and Okafor sharing the PF/C positions. It really just comes down to what other teams are willing to offer...

Is this a strong enough offer to get it done? I'm not sure. They still need help at PG and Collison is a pretty good one but his contract is expiring. The Omri Casspi who shot 40% from three the last two years would be a solid addition for any team but he's struggled this season so far and he's also going to be a free agent at the end of the year. The main get here would be Cauley-Stein who's a bit of a poor man's Noel but has 2 more years left on his rookie deal. He makes more sense for them than Noel does as a defensive 7 footer off the bench because he isn't going to command a huge salary and he doesn't have the same injury concerns.

Basically this comes down to what Bryan (and Jerry) Colangelo want to do next with the Sixers. Hinkie only deals Noel for picks but the Colangelos have said that they want to make the team competitive. Collison and Casspi help them this season -- which hurts their draft stock but may help with ticket sales. Cauley-Stein is a long-term asset to replace Noel but he's not showing us a lot right now so it's a gamble on future development. The one wrinkle in our favor, ironically, is the pick swap we already owe to Philadelphia this year. Trading three for one into their excess cap space probably guarantees a high draft pick for Sacramento (we'd be losing our starting PG and backup SF not to mention losing Rudy and Ben in the previous trade) and that means more ping pong balls for the Sixers.

Updated rotations:

PHILADELPHIA
Darren Collison/Sergio Rodriguez
Gerald Henderson/Nik Stauskas
(Ben Simmons)/Omri Casspi
Ersan Ilyasova/Dario Saric/Richaun Holmes
Joel Embiid/Jahlil Okafor/Willie Cauley-Stein

SACRAMENTO
Ty Lawson/Jordan Farmar?
Garrett Temple/Arron Afflalo
Stanley Johnson/Malachi Richardson
Nerlens Noel/Anthony Tolliver
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos

The PG position looks pretty bleak as does the bench production but we're not going to be able to make enough moves mid-season with this roster to make the playoffs anyway. So if we can't position ourselves to win right now, we can at least position ourselves to win in the future. Lawson, Tolliver, and Afflalo are all gone at the end of the season. Aron Baynes is probably going to opt out of his player option. I would also try to trade Kosta Koufos somewhere before the trade deadline to clear his salary off the books and open up playing time for the two huge foreign born centers enforcers we just acquired.

We're probably targeting a PG in the draft -- somewhere in the 5-10 range most likely -- and we should also be looking to sign a veteran in free agency to help to ease the rookie along slowly or give us good bench minutes if they're ready to start right away.

Updated roster before 2017 Draft and Free Agency:

PG:
SG:....G. Temple, B. Bogdanovic
SF:....S. Johnson, M. Richardson
PF:....N. Noel, S. Labissiere
C:......D. Cousins, B. Marjanovic, G. Papagiannis

[My Rough Estimate of available cap space: 22.8 million]*

*Includes buyouts for Tolliver (2), Afflalo (1.5), and Butler (.5) plus 4 million dollar starting rookie salary for first round pick, plus 18 million dollar estimated starting salary for Noel's new contract, plus 12 million dollar estimated starting salary for Bogdanovic's contract. I don't know what to do about Matt Barnes (6.4 player option) so I'm just ignoring him for now. Salary cap figure used was 102 million.)

Remarkably, everyone is gone now from last year's George Karl coached team except for DeMarcus. The draft is a whole other topic which is going to be beaten to death throughout the season so I'll just say here that Dennis Smith (NC State), Markelle Fultz (Wash), Lonzo Ball (UCLA), and De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky) look like possible targets at PG so those are guys to watch this year. There's also the French PG Frank Ntilikina who's getting limited minutes off the bench right now in the French League as an 18 year old.

A lot depends on who we get to fill out that PG position obviously, but that's a starting lineup that I can see dominating games defensively. If you get a strong defender at the PG position too then there are no weak links on the court. How good can they be offensively though? There's a lot of factors to consider. Noel is good for about 10 points per game off of hustle plays and ugly post-ups but Cousins as a top 5 scorer more than makes up for him. You can potentially move Bogdanovic or Richardson into the starting lineup at SG if you need more offense. Stanley Johnson has to develop into more of a go-to scorer for this to work but he's been able to do that at every other level (HS, college, summer league, D-League) so I think it's mostly a matter of being patient with him until he adjusts to the NBA.

I know you all just skipped to the bottom to look at the roster and shook your heads no when you saw Nerlens "No Knees" Noel and Stanley "The Bricklayer" Johnson in my starting lineup but I think that's going to be a very strong group of players for Dave Joerger to mold into a defensive juggernaut. They may not score a lot of points but they'll sure make the other team miserable for 48 minutes. And you know I'm all for making others miserable!

"BOGDANOVIC FOR 12 MILLION".... Vlade should be fired if Bogdanovic managed to tie him up. I was thinking more along the lines of 3 years $18million with the 3rd year being a PO. Tomas Satoransky got a 3 year $9million deal. I think 5mpy for Bogdanovic is more than fair...considering the 3rd year is a PO anyways.
I really don't mind any of your trades at all. I actually really like them.

However, my biggest problem with this is that with your projected starting lineup would already have 2/5 guys who can't shoot the 3ball. Stanley Johnson just isn't an ideal fit alongside Cuz. Noel can't stretch the floor at all. Noel also struggled a lot at PF, so he'll force Cuz to play the 4. It means whoever we add at PG, needs to be an elite 3pt shooter to balance everything out. We continue this cancerous cycle of not being able to surround Cuz with enough shooters...which is why I don't like these trades because I don't feel like they're catered to Cuz at all. It seems to be a little bit more about stock-piling assets while having Cuz on the roster.

I'd love these trades if we were going to rebuild without Cousins though.

But, let's just pull away with your hypothetical. We'd have 22million in cap space.
If we decided we wanted to strengthen up our SF in FA, we could send that money towards Danilo Gallinari who isn't young, but he's in his prime. This forces us to focus on the draft for a PG.
Let's continue with your assumption that the Kings pick between 5-10. I think this means the Kings miss out on both Fultz and Ball because they're both top 3 prospects as of right now. We'd be left with Dennis Smith Jr, Frank Ntilinka, and DeAaron Fox. Out of this list, the only true shooter is Ntilinka. Dennis Smith Jr struggles with the 3 ball, but he's a really good scorer. Kings decide on DSJ since he's a better overall scorer. Let's say we add a vet PG, let's just go with Lawson.

PG: Smith Jr, Lawson, Temple
SG: Bogdanovic, Richardson
SF: Gallinari, Johnson
PF: Noel, Labissiere
C: Cousins, Marjanovic, Papagiannis

I think this would be a very good core to build on. Gallo is 28 and would be a good mentor for Stanley Johnson. Richardson does get bumped by Bogdanovic, but I'd personally let the two of them duel it out for starting SG position. I think Bogdanovic will win out due to his versatility on offense. Maybe it'll be enough for 8th?

However, the Kings could decide to sign a PG through FA instead, and groom a franchise PG with the draft pick, or draft another position.
Lots of endless possibilities.

 

[kingsboi]

Let's steal TJ McConnell away from Philadelphia...he is slowly getting better and better the more I watch him.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

KINGS 109
LAKERS 105

 

[KingsFanGER]

Stanley Johnson? If he is indeed available, we have to make any deal not involving DMC to get him. If he ever get a consistent jumpshot, he is the kind of player this team needs.
Noel? Noel is a Center and is best used when playing close to the rim on D, where he can make use of his shotblocking skills and disrupte interior passing lanes. With the common 1 big, 4 stretch guys setup in this league, that means Cousins needs to guard someone out at the 3 pt line. That's simply not a good idea. As long as the defensive 7ft on your team is cost controlled like Willie, this isn't that much of a problem. But for a Cousins+Noel combo you need to pay big bucks, meaning that you need to play Noel for the majority of minutes every night. We need the money elsewhere - wing and PG position are way more important, than a second center.

 

[hrdboild]

"BOGDANOVIC FOR 12 MILLION".... Vlade should be fired if Bogdanovic managed to tie him up. I was thinking more along the lines of 3 years $18million with the 3rd year being a PO. Tomas Satoransky got a 3 year $9million deal. I think 5mpy for Bogdanovic is more than fair...considering the 3rd year is a PO anyways.
I really don't mind any of your trades at all. I actually really like them.

However, my biggest problem with this is that with your projected starting lineup would already have 2/5 guys who can't shoot the 3ball. Stanley Johnson just isn't an ideal fit alongside Cuz. Noel can't stretch the floor at all. Noel also struggled a lot at PF, so he'll force Cuz to play the 4. It means whoever we add at PG, needs to be an elite 3pt shooter to balance everything out. We continue this cancerous cycle of not being able to surround Cuz with enough shooters...which is why I don't like these trades because I don't feel like they're catered to Cuz at all. It seems to be a little bit more about stock-piling assets while having Cuz on the roster.

I'd love these trades if we were going to rebuild without Cousins though.

But, let's just pull away with your hypothetical. We'd have 22million in cap space.
If we decided we wanted to strengthen up our SF in FA, we could send that money towards Danilo Gallinari who isn't young, but he's in his prime. This forces us to focus on the draft for a PG.
Let's continue with your assumption that the Kings pick between 5-10. I think this means the Kings miss out on both Fultz and Ball because they're both top 3 prospects as of right now. We'd be left with Dennis Smith Jr, Frank Ntilinka, and DeAaron Fox. Out of this list, the only true shooter is Ntilinka. Dennis Smith Jr struggles with the 3 ball, but he's a really good scorer. Kings decide on DSJ since he's a better overall scorer. Let's say we add a vet PG, let's just go with Lawson.

PG: Smith Jr, Lawson, Temple
SG: Bogdanovic, Richardson
SF: Gallinari, Johnson
PF: Noel, Labissiere
C: Cousins, Marjanovic, Papagiannis

I think this would be a very good core to build on. Gallo is 28 and would be a good mentor for Stanley Johnson. Richardson does get bumped by Bogdanovic, but I'd personally let the two of them duel it out for starting SG position. I think Bogdanovic will win out due to his versatility on offense. Maybe it'll be enough for 8th?

However, the Kings could decide to sign a PG through FA instead, and groom a franchise PG with the draft pick, or draft another position.
Lots of endless possibilities.

That was pure spit-balling on the 12 million dollar figure (but I'm happy you actually read that far ) -- I have no idea what kind of contract Bogdanovic will command. That seems awfully high for a rookie but the salary cap is going up over 100 million next year. Guys like Mike Conley are getting almost 30 million a year. A competent starting shooting guard in the NBA can command 12+ million a year now easy and I know that's what Bogdanovic's agent will see him as. Since he has no track record in the NBA maybe he only gets half that but I wanted to make my estimates high so it didn't look like I was cheating. 22-28 million is enough to add one big piece which is how I would prefer to spend it. We're probably getting passed over by anyone worth spending that on though and I hate overpaying for mediocre talent so I may only spend half that.

In the short-term, it's a team built only for defense. All the shooting is on the bench. That's not ideal, but I'm fine with it because I actually like grit and grind and I think it's a better system for DeMarcus' skillset. I wanted to have people judge this plan only on the mid-season moves because the draft and free agency are impossible to predict this early. If I had to fully spell this out though, De'Aaron Fox is the guy I would try to draft. He's a terrific defender on the ball and he's almost impossible to stay in front of on the other end. He doesn't have the same superstar potential that Smith, Fultz and Ball have but he's the better fit for me for what I'd like at that position and more realistic for our draft range (with the shooting percentages suppressing his draft stock a bit). I'd also consider Ntilikina -- he's a big PG who can shoot and defend both guard positions. Temple starting at SG could be a stopgap until Bogdanovic or Richardson take over or he could be the long-term answer. I don't really care about 3pt shooting. Noel can't space the floor but he can find openings and he can pass intelligently so I don't see this as a serious problem. Stanley Johnson ideally develops into a reliable shooter from outside and I wouldn't want to block him by signing a free agent to start at SF. In Free Agency I'm targeting Brandon Jennings as the PG depth and thinking somewhere in the $10-14 million a year range should be realistic for him. He's not a shooter either but he's great at finding shots for other players. The big guys would love playing with him for sure.

Stanley Johnson? If he is indeed available, we have to make any deal not involving DMC to get him. If he ever get a consistent jumpshot, he is the kind of player this team needs.
Noel? Noel is a Center and is best used when playing close to the rim on D, where he can make use of his shotblocking skills and disrupte interior passing lanes. With the common 1 big, 4 stretch guys setup in this league, that means Cousins needs to guard someone out at the 3 pt line. That's simply not a good idea. As long as the defensive 7ft on your team is cost controlled like Willie, this isn't that much of a problem. But for a Cousins+Noel combo you need to pay big bucks, meaning that you need to play Noel for the majority of minutes every night. We need the money elsewhere - wing and PG position are way more important, than a second center.

I think some of the "Noel can only play center" stuff is overstated. He can certainly move well enough to defend stretch 4's at the three point line. I've seen him guard all 5 positions on the floor. I think you'd see a lot of switching with Noel and Johnson in the lineup together. Both of those guys are really smart defenders and they can cover up a lot of mistakes working together. Cousins remains the man on the inside controlling the boards for us. Get me Fox as the point man in the draft and keep Temple out there on the wing and that defense is flawless. Like I said before, the offense will figure itself out. If Johnson is the 20ppg scorer I think he is and Bogdanovic/Richardson/Labissiere all knock down shots reliably, we'll have enough offense to grind out wins on the back of our defense. We'd be a long ways from the Golden State shot-making machine, but that's fine with me. Nobody is ever going to be able to outshoot that team. They got that covered. There are other ways to win.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I think some of the "Noel can only play center" stuff is overstated. He can certainly move well enough to defend stretch 4's at the three point line. I've seen him guard all 5 positions on the floor. I think you'd see a lot of switching with Noel and Johnson in the lineup together. Both of those guys are really smart defenders and they can cover up a lot of mistakes working together. Cousins remains the man on the inside controlling the boards for us. Get me Fox as the point man in the draft and keep Temple out there on the wing and that defense is flawless. Like I said before, the offense will figure itself out. If Johnson is the 20ppg scorer I think he is and Bogdanovic/Richardson/Labissiere all knock down shots reliably, we'll have enough offense to grind out wins on the back of our defense. We'd be a long ways from the Golden State shot-making machine, but that's fine with me. Nobody is ever going to be able to outshoot that team. They got that covered. There are other ways to win.

Ok maybe Noel can play PF. Maybe he is mobile enough to guard someone like Green, Durant or Harris. But is he best used like that? When guarding a perimeter player Noel does, what the opposing team wants. The main shotblocker is drawn away from the rim and it's very difficult to play help defense, when it forces you to leave a solid spot up shooter out on the 3pt line. What good provides someone like Noel in that role, which can be easily fulfilled by a strong wing player? What good does a second 7 footer on the floor, when he is used like that? From my point of view he isn't necessary on the floor, when he is not the main defensive anchor. Even Philly opted for not playing Okafor and Noel at the same time.

Now I give you that Cousins is more versatile than Okafor on offense and could work around someone like Noel using his strong perimeter game. But again we have to ask, if this is the best way to use a 6'11 260 lbs player. Is Cousins at his best, when playing with a second big, who is limited to the paint on offense, taking away space for Cousins to work in? I personally think, this is not the case. Most teams today walk down the way of one single big with every other player providing spacing. Even Memphis, known for their slow paced grit and grind ball, brings Zbo off the bench nowadays. And unlike Noel Zbo can really punish smaller players on offense, giving his team a real benefit on offense for going big. The only advantage Noel has over a smaller, more skilled player on offense is his rebounding. And on defense he is wasted to a certain extent, when stuck on the perimeter. What's even worse is, that when the opponent shoots lot's of 3's, there is no real benefit to playing Noel on the perimeter, when it comes to rebounding. Most of the rebounds will be long rebounds. And to gather long rebounds, you need to be fast and mobile and not necessarily bigger and longer, than your opponent.
All in all I personally think, that the idea of playing two 7 footers alongside each other is not a good one in todays league. I know the Spurs still do that, but Gasol and LMA are both very skilled bigs, who will eat smaller defenders alive. That's not, who Noel is.

I would focus on getting guys like Johnson around DMC and use big money to sign a good PG to make things work.

 

[Ron]

KINGS 109
LAKERS 105

Wrong thread...!

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Wrong thread...!

LOL.

I dunno how the hell I did that. LAME.

 

[Jimbob]

I would be great to see Johnson a King, however I see no indication Detroit wants to trade him other than sending him to the d league. Regardless I hope Rudy is traded in the next couple days.

Its not earth shattering but again assuming OKC has interest I think Payne will be a good PG, and I know its a small sample size with his injury and limited NBA experience. This draft looks easily 10 deep and its not just PG's. If Payne looks solid there is also a nice group of SF's and PF's. Jackson, Tatum, Isaac, Rabb and Giles. who's leading the pack,? I don't know. With Payne we can go BPA, get it right Vlade, this team is not that far off.

 

[funkykingston]

If Vlade wants to build around Cousins he's going to HAVE to make some really clever/savvy moves.

The Kings have never been players in free agency and the team is on the cusp of losing its 1st rounder to the Bulls this year and WILL lose their 1st rounder to the 76ers in two years. So it would almost have to be via trade and there's not much to work with.

Personally I think it's time to trade Cousins (and anybody else that can bring back something worthwhile), go into tank mode and do the serious rebuild this team has avoided for years.

But if Divac can somehow retool around Boogie and give this team hope and an identity moving forward I'd be hugely impressed.

Gay for Stanley Johnson (I know you proposed a bigger trade to balance salaries etc but that's the crux of it) would be a great gamble to make.

We'll see if this front office has anything up it's collective sleeve soon enough.

 

[fansinceday1]

Grant has said more than once today that something different has to be done because he is taking more and more calls from people and hearing on social media that season ticket holders have had it. People aren't going to renew because the years and years of mediocrity have really taken their toll. It's time for bold moves to be made. It's time to show the fans that we are moving in the right direction.

 

[Bricklayer]

Grant has said more than once today that something different has to be done because he is taking more and more calls from people and hearing on social media that season ticket holders have had it. People aren't going to renew because the years and years of mediocrity have really taken their toll. It's time for bold moves to be made. It's time to show the fans that we are moving in the right direction.

Last thing that's needed now is the fan's hopping in to provide their own muddled GMing after we finally seem to have a power structure on the same page.

Let me say main power structure, because of course there are minority partners who don't seem to understand their own irrelevance, semi-shuttered SacBee writers with agendas etc.

 

[twslam07]

I do your Stanley Johnson trade in a heartbeat. However, I don't think Detroit does it. I understand they are close in the playoff hunt, but they aren't in a position to compete deep in the playoffs. I don't think it make sense for them to mortgage a future piece that can help them compete down the road for a half year of Gay. Perhaps I'm wrong. I'd be interested to hear what Detroit fans think.

As for Noel, I do not like him at all. He's fools gold in my book:

2016-2017
1 game played

2015-2016
RAPM = -2.51
RPM = -1.19
On/Off = -1.5

2014-2015
RAPM = ?
RPM = -1.50
On/Off = +0.3

2013-2014
No games played

On top of him being incredibly injury prone (has only played in 50% of his games), he's going to be a RFA this coming year. Are we willing to risk bleeding an asset or paying $16-$22 mil on a guy who may never amount to being a positive impact player? I sure as hell am not.

And then there is the question of fit with Cousins. Sure, Noel's athleticism is good enough to guard opposing PFs making the defensive pairing work, but then you're making a player (Noel) who's been either a negative or neutral impact player worse by taking away what he contributes most in (rim protection). If you're going to take the risk of bringing on a negative impact player who you think has potential to one day be a player, you better be utilizing him in a way that will allow him to be most successful. Otherwise, you're working against him. Pairing him with Cousins long term does just that.

If we're going to be trading for a guy who's a RFA, we better make sure he's going to help contribute to winning and fit with our team long term. A guy like O. Porter is who I would much rather target. Then use the other assets to trade for a player at another position (rather than S. Johnson since he's a SF as well). Some of Porter's advanced stats are below:

2016-2017
RAPM = ?
RPM = +3.64 (21st in the league; 7th among SFs)
On/Off = +13.0
TS% = 62.0%
3PT% = 41.0%
Per100 PPG = 19.7
Per100 RPG = 10.4
Per100 SPG = 2.7
AST/TO = 1.52

2015-2016
RAPM = +0.81 (103rd in the league)
RPM = +1.51 (78th in the league; 15th among SFs)
On/Off = +2.7
TS% = 56.4%
3PT% = 36.7%
Per100 PPG = 18.7
Per100 RPG = 8.4
Per100 SPG = 2.2
AST/TO = 1.71

2014-2015
RAPM = ?
RPM = +1.23 (101st in the league; 20th among SFs)
On/Off = -1.6
TS% = 52.3%
3PT% = 33.7%
Per100 PPG = 15.9
Per100 RPG = 7.9
Per100 SPG = 1.6
AST/TO = 1.25

2013-2014
RAPM = ?
RPM = -3.49 (41st among SFs)
On/Off = -4.9
TS% = 40.5%
3PT% = 19.0%
Per100 PPG = 12.6
Per100 RPG = 9.2
Per100 SPG = 1.3
AST/TO = 0.71

Now that's the type of guy I would be totally fine with investing $20+ mil this offseason. Especially considering he has good athleticism & good size (6'7.5" w/0 shoes, 7'1.5" wingspan, & 8'9.5" standing reach), is not a ball stopper, plays hard, plays good defense, fits with our team long term, and won't turn 24 until next summer.

PG - 2017 Pick
SG - Richardson / Bogdanovic
SF - Porter
PF - Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis

That's a much more attractive "lineup of the future" to me. If the pick turns out to be a star PG, you have Cousins as #1, 2017 pick as #2, & Porter as #3 with Richardson or Bogdanovic potentially being a sixth man scoring type player of the future. Not to mention if Labissiere hits his ceiling, you may just have another star or Ibaka type player to use. Then at the same time you have 3pt shooters all around Cousins (Richardson, Bogdanovic, Porter, Labissiere , & potentially the 2017 pick depending on who we'd take/how he'd develop).

 

[hrdboild]

Well...

Detroit has slipped down to the #9 spot now in what has become a very competitive Eastern Conference so there ought to be some urgency for SVG to make changes. They already have a ton of salary committed to their core group of Jackson, Harris, and Drummond with Caldwell-Pope's rookie contract ending at the end of the year. And if they do miss the playoffs this year they'll have no cap space left to improve in the off-season and that's before they give Caldwell-Pope his next contract. I just don't see how they expect to improve without trading somebody. They have a young core that's ready to compete right now and if you look at the teams above them, one big piece could push them right up there into a top 4 spot if it's the right piece. They actually have the third best point differential in the East so far, they just can't score enough points when it counts. There's an opportunity for somebody to make a trade with them right now, I just don't know if we have anything they would want.

Also, this happened:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/s...t-of-the-rotation-for-the-foreseeable-future/

Nerlens Noel came back, played limited minutes in two games, complained about it to the media ("figure this crap out"), begged the coach for more playing time, then got a DNP-CD in their win over Brooklyn today with grumblings that he might be out of the rotation entirely for the foreseeable future. This situation has all the hallmarks of a sell-low salary dump. He's right that he's too good to be getting 8 minutes off the bench but then he's been combative with the organization ever since they drafted Jahlil Okafor so he's more or less trying to force his way out of there. The trade I'm proposing here really just amounts to swapping Willie Cauley-Stein for Nerlens Noel. The other guys we're going to lose anyway. The risk is in paying his next contract despite all of his injury issues, but we needed to be taking some risks to get out of the hopeless situation we're in now.

 

[hrdboild]

I do your Stanley Johnson trade in a heartbeat. However, I don't think Detroit does it. I understand they are close in the playoff hunt, but they aren't in a position to compete deep in the playoffs. I don't think it make sense for them to mortgage a future piece that can help them compete down the road for a half year of Gay. Perhaps I'm wrong. I'd be interested to hear what Detroit fans think.

As for Noel, I do not like him at all. He's fools gold in my book:

2016-2017
1 game played
2015-2016
RAPM = -2.51
RPM = -1.19
On/Off = -1.5

2014-2015
RAPM = ?
RPM = -1.50
On/Off = +0.3

2013-2014
No games played

On top of him being incredibly injury prone (has only played in 50% of his games), he's going to be a RFA this coming year. Are we willing to risk bleeding an asset or paying $16-$22 mil on a guy who may never amount to being a positive impact player? I sure as hell am not.

And then there is the question of fit with Cousins. Sure, Noel's athleticism is good enough to guard opposing PFs making the defensive pairing work, but then you're making a player (Noel) who's been either a negative or neutral impact player worse by taking away what he contributes most in (rim protection). If you're going to take the risk of bringing on a negative impact player who you think has potential to one day be a player, you better be utilizing him in a way that will allow him to be most successful. Otherwise, you're working against him. Pairing him with Cousins long term does just that.

If we're going to be trading for a guy who's a RFA, we better make sure he's going to help contribute to winning and fit with our team long term. A guy like O. Porter is who I would much rather target. Then use the other assets to trade for a player at another position (rather than S. Johnson since he's a SF as well). Some of Porter's advanced stats are below:

2016-2017
RAPM = ?
RPM = +3.64 (21st in the league; 7th among SFs)
On/Off = +13.0
TS% = 62.0%
3PT% = 41.0%
Per100 PPG = 19.7
Per100 RPG = 10.4
Per100 SPG = 2.7
AST/TO = 1.52
2015-2016
RAPM = +0.81 (103rd in the league)
RPM = +1.51 (78th in the league; 15th among SFs)
On/Off = +2.7
TS% = 56.4%
3PT% = 36.7%
Per100 PPG = 18.7
Per100 RPG = 8.4
Per100 SPG = 2.2
AST/TO = 1.71

2014-2015
RAPM = ?
RPM = +1.23 (101st in the league; 20th among SFs)
On/Off = -1.6
TS% = 52.3%
3PT% = 33.7%
Per100 PPG = 15.9
Per100 RPG = 7.9
Per100 SPG = 1.6
AST/TO = 1.25

2013-2014
RAPM = ?
RPM = -3.49 (41st among SFs)
On/Off = -4.9
TS% = 40.5%
3PT% = 19.0%
Per100 PPG = 12.6
Per100 RPG = 9.2
Per100 SPG = 1.3
AST/TO = 0.71

Now that's the type of guy I would be totally fine with investing $20+ mil this offseason. Especially considering he has good athleticism & good size (6'7.5" w/0 shoes, 7'1.5" wingspan, & 8'9.5" standing reach), is not a ball stopper, plays hard, plays good defense, fits with our team long term, and won't turn 24 until next summer.

PG - 2017 Pick
SG - Richardson / Bogdanovic
SF - Porter
PF - Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis

That's a much more attractive "lineup of the future" to me. If the pick turns out to be a star PG, you have Cousins as #1, 2017 pick as #2, & Porter as #3 with Richardson or Bogdanovic potentially being a sixth man scoring type player of the future. Not to mention if Labissiere hits his ceiling, you may just have another star or Ibaka type player to use. Then at the same time you have 3pt shooters all around Cousins (Richardson, Bogdanovic, Porter, Labissiere , & potentially the 2017 pick depending on who we'd take/how he'd develop).

Do you have anything other than RPM to indicate Noel is a negative impact player? He's played only two seasons so far and basketball-reference has him in the top 10 in Defensive Box Plus/Minus for both seasons:

2014-2015:
1.Andrew Bogut • GSW5.5
2.Rudy Gobert • UTA5.1
3.Tim Duncan • SAS4.7
4.Nerlens Noel • PHI4.5
5.Draymond Green • GSW4.0
6.Tony Allen • MEM3.7
7.Joakim Noah • CHI3.6
8.Marc Gasol • MEM3.5
9.Kawhi Leonard • SAS3.5
10.DeMarcus Cousins • SAC3.3

2015-2016:
1.Tim Duncan • SAS5.0
2.Rudy Gobert • UTA4.8
3.Paul Millsap • ATL4.2
4.Draymond Green • GSW3.9
5.DeAndre Jordan • LAC3.8
6.Pau Gasol • CHI3.5
7.Hassan Whiteside • MIA3.4
8.Nerlens Noel • PHI3.4
9.Ian Mahinmi • IND3.3
10.Amir Johnson • BOS3.2

The injury concerns are fair, but when he has been on the court he's already an impact player. His value is entirely on the defensive end, which is why you see unimpressive stats which average overall performance, but the difference between playing on a Philadelphia team for two years which had no scorers (now they have Embiid...) and sharing a Sacramento front court with the #4 scorer in the league couldn't be more extreme. The situations are so different that I don't think RPM is going to tell you anything useful at all. We don't need him to make more than 2 or 3 baskets per game so his offensive limitations should be put into context.

On this team he'd contribute as a defensive swiss army knife and short of Draymond Green, I don't think there's a more versatile defender in the league. For the most part basketball's top defenders are divided into two groups: athletic wings who harass guards and forwards on the perimeter and imposing big men who lock down the paint. Draymond Green is capable of both because of his strength/quickness combo. Nerlens Noel plays defense like an athletic wing but he's got the body type of a shotblocker. There are better shotblockers in the league but none with the footspeed to chase guards off of picks, the quick hands to strip ball handlers on the floor, and the anticipation skills to intercept passes before they even get to the post. No other big guy has been in the top 10 in steal percentage the last 2 years. It's like he's been genetically engineered to wreck pick and rolls. His defensive floor game (away from the basket) is the best I've seen of any Center since Ben Wallace. So yeah I wouldn't want to take him away from the paint all the time but if you're suggesting that rim protection is his biggest strength on defense I think you just haven't watched him play very much.