Rebuild...ahead of schedule?

#1
I know it's a bit early to say such a thing. We are young and none of our kiddos have proven anything outside of Buddy. I just have a feeling we may be a much better team this year than a lot of folks are predicting. Sure we won't make the playoffs, but IMO we will win more games than expected for the following reasons.

Buddy Hield- After 4 years of college and a solid rookie campaign, I expect him to be one of the top two scorers on the team and maintain solid percentages. Fewer turnovers and more confidence to take open shots.

George Hill- Don't underestimate this guy. Only one time in his career did he play on a team with less than 45 wins. He is an impact guy IMO. Does the little things not seen in the box score and provides leadership.

Fox/Mason- With Hill as the starter and mentor, Fox will not have the weight on his shoulders his first couple years. He can just come in and do what he does best- fly up and down the court and make plays. Mason is a baller and can contribute right away as the 3rd guard. He has no fear and will succeed at the NBA level. When was the last time the Kings had 3 really good players at the point?

WCS- Gotta admit I wasn't a huge fan of him his rookie year. He seemed like a baby in interviews and didn't seem to give 100 percent effort but I grew to like him the last half of his second year. He did the little things and turns out he can rebound, you just have to ask! He is coming into his 3rd year and played 3 years of college so I like his chance of making a really nice leap this year.

Randolph- Need points when the young guys can't score? Put this guy in and he will put an end to a run. Is there a better guy out there to mentor Skal and the rest? Came off the bench last year, so you know he is willing to do what the coach asks of him.

Bogs- rookie who has been playing professional ball for a long time. I expect him to provide outside shooting and hustle right away.

Chemistry- good to great teams generally have on court chemistry. You like each other, you respect each other, you know each others habits. It sure seems like this team has it. They are generally around the same age trying to build something together. Time will tell but the signs are there.

We have solid depth at every position aside from SF, we have veterans who not only provide mentorship but can still play, we have a great coach who has won everywhere he has been and we have some semblance of organization and unity in our front office.

So yeh we are young, but it's a mix of international professionals, 3/4 year college guys and those who have maturity beyond their years.

I like their chances.
 
#2
The biggest goal of a rebuild is to land the star or star players that will eventually allow your team to contend.

By that measure it's too early to tell if Vlade has been successful.

Are there guys with star potential? Possibly.

Of the 9 guys on rookie deals I'd say the guys with the potential to be stars are:

Fox
Labissiere
Giles
with Hield having an outside shot.
 
#5
The biggest goal of a rebuild is to land the star or star players that will eventually allow your team to contend.

By that measure it's too early to tell if Vlade has been successful.

Are there guys with star potential? Possibly.

Of the 9 guys on rookie deals I'd say the guys with the potential to be stars are:

Fox
Labissiere
Giles
with Hield having an outside shot.
Contend? After watching this for the last decade I'd settle for the run the Grizzlies have had of perennial semi-conference. I just want to see good basketball again, and there are enough players to accomplish that now eventually IMO. Game changing talents that lead to perennial contention are hard to come by even with tanking
 
#6
Contend? After watching this for the last decade I'd settle for the run the Grizzlies have had of perennial semi-conference. I just want to see good basketball again, and there are enough players to accomplish that now eventually IMO. Game changing talents that lead to perennial contention are hard to come by even with tanking
Yes exactly... My hope for the team is a perennial playoff team like the grizzlies. If instead we manage to become the Spurs who are perennial contenders then even better. But I'm fine with the former.
 
#7
The biggest goal of a rebuild is to land the star or star players that will eventually allow your team to contend.

By that measure it's too early to tell if Vlade has been successful.

Are there guys with star potential? Possibly.

Of the 9 guys on rookie deals I'd say the guys with the potential to be stars are:

Fox
Labissiere
Giles
with Hield having an outside shot.
And this is precisely it. The success of a rebuild is absolutely dependent on getting those stars (and more than one). The more of them you get, the better the team you are going it be. That is what differentiates the Golden State rebuild and the Orlando Magic rebuild. One team got a superstar and two all-stars while the other got a bunch of good NBA players and some solid players. There is a massive difference.

I like that we have tried to speed up the process (i.e not complete it) but making sure we have more picks, increasing our chances of getting good players, some we hope will turn into those stars.

Way too early to tell if its done or not but I like the approach that the Kings are taking on this. Load up on picks and see what happens but ensure you have good professional veterans to teach these kids what is required.
 
#8
I agree with those four being our chance at a star(s)

Hield of dreams seems more like 17/game solid starter who plays within himself than a future star but I could see him being a major part of a winning team.
I think Hield could be a star his shot is automatic just being on the floor he's an impact. Now he's gonna have to be a average defender and playmaker he can easily be Bradley Beal that's a great player.
 
#9
Contend? After watching this for the last decade I'd settle for the run the Grizzlies have had of perennial semi-conference. I just want to see good basketball again, and there are enough players to accomplish that now eventually IMO. Game changing talents that lead to perennial contention are hard to come by even with tanking
To me contending means being a perennial playoff team that isn't just squeaking into the 8th spot to get swept.
 
#10
Of the 9 guys on rookie deals I'd say the guys with the potential to be stars are:

Fox
Labissiere
Giles
with Hield having an outside shot.
Fran Fraschilla believes Bogdanovic has a chance too. In fact, he only names Fox and Bogdan as players with star potential on the current roster.

As far as I'm concerned, they all have a shot. I mean, who ever would have thought Steph Curry would be a 2-time MVP or that Isaiah Thomas would be doing what he's been doing? You just never know.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#11
I could see us being in that Utah mold of not really having a star (unless you want to count Gobert, who is a stud on defense) but still being able to hang with defense and smart team play.

It'll take awhile to get there with how young the roster is, but I think we'll see a lot of flashes next season.

Then again, we also have guys with pretty high ceilings on the roster. If Fox gets his shot back he's a stud. Skal has some beastly potential. Buddy will be a 20ppg scorer. Then we have wildcards like Bogs and Giles.

Vlade has really done a great job with the rebuild. No bad contracts, a great coach who's in it for the long haul, and a ton of intriguing prospects. All the vets on the roster are perfect for bringing the youth along too! Gosh, now I'm just gushing.

When we traded Cuz, I figured we were back to being 5 years away.

Now I'm thinking maybe 2 or 3.
 
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#13
Fran Fraschilla believes Bogdanovic has a chance too. In fact, he only names Fox and Bogdan as players with star potential on the current roster.

As far as I'm concerned, they all have a shot. I mean, who ever would have thought Steph Curry would be a 2-time MVP or that Isaiah Thomas would be doing what he's been doing? You just never know.
I agree. I think you would need to look at players who can get their own shots.. it would narrow our lists down to Fox, Malachi, and Skal. However, if an outsider like Buddy can add huge improvements to his game, there's no reason why he can't become a franchise player.

To be entirely 100% realistic, the Kings don't have anyone who is guaranteed to be a franchise player like a Markelle Fultz, Ben Simmons, or KAT. We'll need to see who among the guys can take over..if they can. Assuming everyone gets their fair share of PT, I could see Malachi stepping up into that role. Plays with a similar fire we'd see in a franchise player.
 
#14
There is just too much overly positive predicitons about our future. We will have a great future if we draft our franchise player next year. If not, we have absolutely zero odds to become a contender and we would be locked in a situation where getting the 8th seed would be likely our ceiling. We are at the point where our core is cheap so for a small market team like Kings, this is the perfect opportunity to build a real playoff team. All it would take is playing the young guys so much that we would be in the best possible position to draft Porter or whoever seems to be the guy. Looking at next years free agency there are simply ZERO free agents that Kings could sign that would elevate this team to the next level so we would need to draft that player. Since we dont have a pick in '19 we would have to do that '18.

If we dont have a real star franchise player at the time when we would need to extend our current young guys, we are doomed. Players like Skal, Buddy, Malachi, WCS will become expensive so we need to have our core locked down before that. If not then we either extend our young guys, lose the flexibility and settle for a mediocerity or let them go and rebuild again wich would take longer since we wouldnt have player like Cuz to cash in.

So the Kings rebuild is abdolutely not in ahead of schedule. The rebuild is done when we have one or two potential superstars with a solid core. At the moment we have the core and depending on if Fox will develope a pull up three pointer, one possible star. We dont have the pieces neccesary to build a winner. We can become a team that fights for the playoff spot for the next 3-4 years but without adding a real franchise talent, that will be our ceiling. And that is excactly the spot where you should not be multiple years in a row. We traded away the best talent we've had since Chris Webber, we cant throw that opportunity away for a pointles "fight" for the 8th seed. We absolutely need to add a possible all star level talent either via draft or trade next year or otherwise we are not going anywhere
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#15
There is just too much overly positive predicitons about our future. We will have a great future if we draft our franchise player next year. If not, we have absolutely zero odds to become a contender and we would be locked in a situation where getting the 8th seed would be likely our ceiling. We are at the point where our core is cheap so for a small market team like Kings, this is the perfect opportunity to build a real playoff team. All it would take is playing the young guys so much that we would be in the best possible position to draft Porter or whoever seems to be the guy. Looking at next years free agency there are simply ZERO free agents that Kings could sign that would elevate this team to the next level so we would need to draft that player. Since we dont have a pick in '19 we would have to do that '18.
If people want to be positive, they can be positive. Lots of us have been around for eons and if we see something to be hopeful about, all I can say is it's about time. Once you've been here longer, I suspect you may come to understand how long it's been since we felt that way. I mean no offense, but I think you're missing the point on what being a Kings fan means. The roller coaster ride we've been on since 2002 has made us more than a little bipolar.

Right now, there is more reason to be positive in our outlook than there has been in a very, very, very long time.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
I agree. I think you would need to look at players who can get their own shots.. it would narrow our lists down to Fox, Malachi, and Skal. However, if an outsider like Buddy can add huge improvements to his game, there's no reason why he can't become a franchise player.

To be entirely 100% realistic, the Kings don't have anyone who is guaranteed to be a franchise player like a Markelle Fultz, Ben Simmons, or KAT. We'll need to see who among the guys can take over..if they can. Assuming everyone gets their fair share of PT, I could see Malachi stepping up into that role. Plays with a similar fire we'd see in a franchise player.
Oddly enough (or not ;) ) I agree with you about Malachi. He's got that "lean and hungry look" about him. I suspect there's a lot more potential there than has even been hinted at.
 
#17
I advise you guys not to get ahead of yourselves. You are relying on a rookie PG to be part of the rebuild and PGs take time to develop. That's why you got Hill. The team also lacks a primary scorer and has to hope one of the young guys develops into a star.

So be patient, because your organization rarely is patient.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
I advise you guys not to get ahead of yourselves. You are relying on a rookie PG to be part of the rebuild and PGs take time to develop. That's why you got Hill. The team also lacks a primary scorer and has to hope one of the young guys develops into a star.

So be patient, because your organization rarely is patient.
Oh please. If people want to be excited and optimistic, what difference does it make? It's been such a damned long time around here that I would think the positive outlook would be a breath of fresh air.
 
#20
I advise you guys not to get ahead of yourselves. You are relying on a rookie PG to be part of the rebuild and PGs take time to develop. That's why you got Hill. The team also lacks a primary scorer and has to hope one of the young guys develops into a star.

So be patient, because your organization rarely is patient.
Really Vlade seems very patient. In fact I'd even say other Kings FO were too patient w cousins
 
#22
I advise you guys not to get ahead of yourselves. You are relying on a rookie PG to be part of the rebuild and PGs take time to develop. That's why you got Hill. The team also lacks a primary scorer and has to hope one of the young guys develops into a star.

So be patient, because your organization rarely is patient.
I like how you just refuted your own point about our PGs.

Also, the only reason we don't have a primary scorer is because we aren't playing games right now.

Also, we're not "hoping" they turn into a star. Our coaching staff is turning them into stars.

We have created the ideal star making factory. Nine young players all with good to great potential. Great young coach. Superb vet leadership. A new group forming bonds with common goals.

And we STILL have some cap space.
 
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#23
There is just too much overly positive predicitons about our future. We will have a great future if we draft our franchise player next year. If not, we have absolutely zero odds to become a contender and we would be locked in a situation where getting the 8th seed would be likely our ceiling. We are at the point where our core is cheap so for a small market team like Kings, this is the perfect opportunity to build a real playoff team. All it would take is playing the young guys so much that we would be in the best possible position to draft Porter or whoever seems to be the guy. Looking at next years free agency there are simply ZERO free agents that Kings could sign that would elevate this team to the next level so we would need to draft that player. Since we dont have a pick in '19 we would have to do that '18.

If we dont have a real star franchise player at the time when we would need to extend our current young guys, we are doomed. Players like Skal, Buddy, Malachi, WCS will become expensive so we need to have our core locked down before that. If not then we either extend our young guys, lose the flexibility and settle for a mediocerity or let them go and rebuild again wich would take longer since we wouldnt have player like Cuz to cash in.

So the Kings rebuild is abdolutely not in ahead of schedule. The rebuild is done when we have one or two potential superstars with a solid core. At the moment we have the core and depending on if Fox will develope a pull up three pointer, one possible star. We dont have the pieces neccesary to build a winner. We can become a team that fights for the playoff spot for the next 3-4 years but without adding a real franchise talent, that will be our ceiling. And that is excactly the spot where you should not be multiple years in a row. We traded away the best talent we've had since Chris Webber, we cant throw that opportunity away for a pointles "fight" for the 8th seed. We absolutely need to add a possible all star level talent either via draft or trade next year or otherwise we are not going anywhere
You don't know if we have future star or stars on the team currently. I think that we are going to have two 20 PPG guards in our backcourt. Fox is going to be a dynamic scorer. How do you know Skal won't turn into a big time scorer and an all-star? How do you know what Buddy or Papa G will become? Just based on early returns Buddy is a 20 PPG scorer in our league with high efficiency. Papa G is a 7'1" X factor who has transformed his body in less than one year . Giles is granted a long shot but if all goes well could be the best player in the draft. He has wingspan of Willie and better shot and handles than Skal. Bogdan is one of the fundamentally sound players I have ever watched.

With all of these variables, why do we need to pin all of our hopes on the 2018 draft? We should be nurturing these assets and yesterday signings show exactly the front office intention. Fox has a better chance to become a star watching and learning under Hill. In two years at advanced age of 21, the team will be turned over to him. That's better than letting him "take his lumps" at 35 MPG so we can draft another 19 year old in 2018 draft.

Not all these players are going to pan out but I think we are ahead of schedule in in two consecutive drafts we parlayed 1 asset into three and 1 asset and two.... in former case all 3 assets are showing promise.

2016 summer: Marco --- > Malachi
2016 draft: # 8 pick ---> Papa G Bogdan Skal
2017 deadline: Boogie ---> Buddy Jackson (Giles + Fox)
2017 Draft: #10 pick ----> Jackson Giles
2017 Free Agency: Cleared cap space ----> Hill Z-Bo

Look at the "rebuild" based on what Vlade started with, what is to the left of the arrows. I took liberty with the assumption we would have conveyed our pick (#5 - Fox) if the Boogie trade does not go down since we would have likely finished outside the Bottom 10. So this amounts to our best asset (Boogie), the 2016 lottery pick, the 2017 NO pick and Marco turned into:
  • Malachi
  • Papa G
  • Bogdan
  • Skal
  • Buddy
  • Jackson
  • Giles
  • Fox
  • Hill
  • Z-Bo
This is fairly impressive "rebuild". Personally I would have been happy if we could have drafted Isaac then Donovan at #5 and #10 but I am hardly disappointed. The remaking of team starting with last years draft to now would not include yesterday's free agents because if we do not make Boogie trade the money that goes to Hill and Z-Bo goes to Boogie. Though we do not get maximum value in his trade (i.e. 2019 unprotected pick included) this is impressive turnover of a team going nowhere with Boogie at its centerpiece. How impressive it turns out to be depends on individual and collective development and emergence of a star caliber players Of course it would be great to have #1 pick in 2018. But betting on luck guarantees nothing, and you would be potentially neglecting everything you have done above by jeopardizing their development and confidence by throwing to them to the wolves. Besides fortune favors the bold. Vlade was bold at deadline and moved up to #5 and got his franchise PG. The focus should being bold and aggressive and developing what we have not plotting to win 15 games in 2018.
 
#24
I like how you just refuted your own point about out PGs.

Also, the only reason we don't have a primary scorer is because we aren't playing games right now.

Also, we're not "hoping" they turn into a star. Our coaching staff is turning them into stars.

We have created the ideal star making factory. Nine young players all with good to great potential. Great young coach. Superb vet leadership. A new group forming bonds with common goals.

And we STILL have some cap space.
Love the optimism!

It's so catchy I could almost share it,
but I need to see some hoops played...
 
#25
There is just too much overly positive predicitons about our future. We will have a great future if we draft our franchise player next year. If not, we have absolutely zero odds to become a contender and we would be locked in a situation where getting the 8th seed would be likely our ceiling. We are at the point where our core is cheap so for a small market team like Kings, this is the perfect opportunity to build a real playoff team. All it would take is playing the young guys so much that we would be in the best possible position to draft Porter or whoever seems to be the guy. Looking at next years free agency there are simply ZERO free agents that Kings could sign that would elevate this team to the next level so we would need to draft that player. Since we dont have a pick in '19 we would have to do that '18.

If we dont have a real star franchise player at the time when we would need to extend our current young guys, we are doomed. Players like Skal, Buddy, Malachi, WCS will become expensive so we need to have our core locked down before that. If not then we either extend our young guys, lose the flexibility and settle for a mediocerity or let them go and rebuild again wich would take longer since we wouldnt have player like Cuz to cash in.

So the Kings rebuild is abdolutely not in ahead of schedule. The rebuild is done when we have one or two potential superstars with a solid core. At the moment we have the core and depending on if Fox will develope a pull up three pointer, one possible star. We dont have the pieces neccesary to build a winner. We can become a team that fights for the playoff spot for the next 3-4 years but without adding a real franchise talent, that will be our ceiling. And that is excactly the spot where you should not be multiple years in a row. We traded away the best talent we've had since Chris Webber, we cant throw that opportunity away for a pointles "fight" for the 8th seed. We absolutely need to add a possible all star level talent either via draft or trade next year or otherwise we are not going anywhere
It's hilarious to me how negative people try to bring down positive people, like it's some sort of problem or threat or as if they are "concerned" for the optimists.

Just so you know you provide entertainment for me.
 
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#26
I think there is plenty good reason to be optimistic. I know it feels like everything hinges on where we pick next year. I am well aware of next years draft importance relative to not having our pick in 2019.

This whole time constraint is a bit false and misses the whole reason a lot of fans are optimistic. For the first time since Geoff Petrie roamed the halls there is evidence that every move is serving a purpose, rather than the carousel of executives and coaches throwing noodles at the wall to see what will stick that season.

No matter where we pick next season, we have direction now. Vlade, Scott, Ken, Coach Joeger and more, seem to be on the same page and always making progress towards a goal. We have not had that for quite a long time.

The year we currently don't have a pick, our vets will be off the books. We will have Willie to pay a new contract to. Then hit the free agent pool. As evidenced already, we have made strides in relevancy with regards to free agents. The next two seasons, with continued stability and progress from our youth, will serve to improve how attractive we are to free agents even more. The 2019 free agency class looks fantastic.

We have direction. We are not painted into a corner. We have options looking ahead several years. The two year self imposed timeline is a mirage. Kings fans have paid their dues and then some. When it is time to cash in and make a run for a championship, we want to make it count for all the suffering endured to be worth it, and I feel we will. Our time is coming, just not yet.
 
#27
We're winning 50 games this year. Mark it down.

Greatest rebuild in NBA history.

Bogdonavich will win ROY.

Vlade will win GMOY.

Joerger *could* win COY too but that might be a step too far.
Told ya -
Catchy as hell... :D

Unfortunately I'm aware of how tricky it could be for a young player to develop into this league and find his game.

Then I multiply that complexity by 10 (young ones).

Then I factor in the fact that they must develop simultanuously, with each individual development phase, by any one of them, effecting the team chemistry and the development of the rest of them...

Then I add the lack of franchise-winning-culture-tradition (in the last decade) to draw upon.

And then I still feel optimistic,
but it's more in the sense of
"Yes, I DO believe in miracles" :)
 
#28
I'm excited and optimistic as well. Its a lot of fun watching the acquisition of so many young faces. But ahead of schedule? Haven't we been working on this rebuild for like 12 years. Or is this rebuild number 10? Lol
 
#29
Buddy Hield will lead Kings in scoring for next couple years probably - maybe a bunch of seasons. Has such rising up fluid touch, can get his own shot, effectively slash inside, unlike the failed McLemore. Hield's D is work in progress (not terrible) but should improve a lot with the right coaching going to be getting from Joerger. I predict BB (Buddy Buckets / Bahamian Buckets) will average 20ppg this coming season or very close to it.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#30
I'm excited and optimistic as well. Its a lot of fun watching the acquisition of so many young faces. But ahead of schedule? Haven't we been working on this rebuild for like 12 years. Or is this rebuild number 10? Lol

The difference this time is that it's a real rebuild. :)