Preseason Grades v. Blazers 10/20/2013

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Bricklayer, Oct 20, 2013.


Aside from Cousins, who would your 4 other starters be (multiple choice poll, select 4)?

  1. Thompson

  2. Patterson

  3. Outlaw

  4. Mbah a Moute

  5. Salmons

  6. Thornton

  7. McLemore

  8. Fredette

  9. Vasquez

  10. Thomas

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    Sigh. Feel sorry for our new coach. This game was not a total disaster btw. Started out as a total disaster, but then we mass-subbed in the third and all of a sudden the bench crew went nuts and made a real game of it. But I say sigh, because what we have is a pile of mediocrities, any one of whom can have a big game on any night (tonight it was Patterson and McLemore), but none of whom can be counted to do so. Makes Malone's job of selecting starters here close to impossible. So I'm going to add a poll for who we all would select. Of course that only further illustrates the problem, since there are literally so many candidates I don't have enough poll options for all of them.

    Anyway, select 4, any 4.


    Stats: 20min 6pts (2-8, 1-4, 2-2) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Salmons ( D ) -- well, some meanie obviously jammed the fork firmly back into John's back before tipoff, and I would imagine, although its so hard to tell with our up and down non-Cousins play, that this damaged his starting chances for the regular season in the process. In short, he looked like the same passionless washed up guy we have been seeing for the last few years as once again a lineup he was part of was just dead flat. Was missing all his normal shots, threes, little drives for pullups, and having minimal impact on the other end of the floor. We finally began to use his size in the post on a couple of third quarter switches where Lillard ended up guarding him, but even that was an airball as often as a conversion.

    Stats: 41min 27pts (11-18, 3-5, 2-2) 8reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Patterson ( B+ ) -- 27pts 8reb for Patrick Patterson = you just have to give him an A of some sort right? Well...wrong. He was leading us in scoring at halftime and I was wondering if I could bring myself to give him a B-. By the mid third his defensive and boarding deficiencies had gotten so grotesque it was in the Cs. But after we made the big swap out, taking out all our flat starters except PPat, from that point on the things he wasn't doing became much less noticeable than the things he continued to do. In fact PPat was just about the only guy IT would pass to at all in the third quarter, and he responded with a flurry. Watching him today I was struck by how much he's barely a PF at all. He's about as physical as a powder puff. Thin and narrow and if he bangs into somebody its pure accident. While his grade was falling he was totally non-competitive blocking guys off the board, on switches onto Lopez. He was actually stepping out of the way of Blazers driving the ball. It was like watching Spencer Hawes' long lost sibling and I was thinking of photoshopping up a pic of him in a tutu if that had continued. But on the other hand he's very mobile, and being skinny, he repeatedly slipped in between Blazers to get open looks and dunks along the baseline, to sneak in for offensive boards, where most of his effectiveness seemed to be on the glass whatever the numbers say etc. And the result was he did nothing you want a PF to do, and it was killing us when nobody else was doing it either. But especially when Chuck was in there to provide some physical presence and boardwork, PPat's shooting ability and mobility was on full display. He got hot, kept getting open, and we kept finding him, and the Blazers never did figure out what to do about it. So the grade went up and up and it had to be good. I still wouldn't hesitate to kick sand in his face at the beach though.

    Stats: 15min 0pts (0-5, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
    Thompson ( D- ) -- oh lord, Boogie please stay healthy. Please PLEASE stay healthy. We rested Boogie tonight, and let JT start in his place, and JT was just flat bad. I've mentioned in the past his tendency to (sorry Jerry Reynolds, you are WRONG) better at PF than C, where he's not as strong as he looks. But this went beyond that. This was the erratic "off" Jason that crops up for no apparent reason from time to time. couldn't get anything going offensively against Lopez, wasn't on the boards. Got in quick foul trouble. Misses a flat F here because I think he was playing defense the way we drew it up, but the Blazers seemed to repeatedly take advantage of the way we were playing pick and rolls. Was gone for the last time by the mid 3rd in favor of a 6'6" center, and he should be embarrassed that that sentence ends "and not missed".

    Stats: 18min 10pts (4-9, 1-5, 1-1) 3reb 0ast 2stl 0blk 0TO
    Thornton ( C- ) -- scored 10pts in 18 minutes which is largely why the grade hovers at this level despite another uninspired effort. What's curious here is the degree to which shots were there for McLemore, because Thornton somehow remains uninvolved. Half his shots seemed spur of the moment, there was definitely no organized push. He got 10 pts basically just by being a talented scorer, but without any sort of sense of plan or purpose. And once his defensive issues fully manifested on the other side -- JTs foul trouble and our awful defense was largely due to the starting backcourt being completely unable to keep anybody out of the lane -- well, a C- is being a little generous. You again don't know, but he might well have lost the SG battle to M16 simply because Ben is dependable, even when he sucks. There is a plan and a function, and if he misses his shots or dribbles it off his toes at least you know the play is coming. Thornton on the other hand has just looked terribly uncomfortable and wandering around in a fog. I fear the concept of an organized offense where you can't just freelance up your own shot whenever you feel like it has left him unhinged. Sure am glad we're paying MT $8.4mil though instead of that other guy $11mil.

    Stats: 20min 4pts (1-8, 1-2, 1-2) 1reb 6ast 2stl 0blk 1TO
    Vasquez ( C- ) -- and here is maybe what you get when you put an offensively limited PG in a starting lineup tonight with nobody to pass to. He was setting people up solidly, but that was rarely enough to convince the snoozing starters to actually put it in the hoop. Meanwhile his own offense consisted mostly of slow drives ending in missed floater after missed floater. We even tried to use his size and post him on Lillard in the third, but that didn't work either. Finally hit a standstill three, but that would be his only hit on the night as Lillard started toasting him/us in the third, and we lost his 20minutes on the floor by 15pts. There's not a doubt in my mind he's the better PG to stick next to Cousins, because he'll feed Cousins rather than himself. But with no Cousins to feed, even IT at his most selfish was providing energy and a push that Grevis did not.



    Stats: 34min 6pts (3-5, 0-0, 0-1) 11reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Hayes ( B ) -- this was the sort of game that would make you respect the things that Chuck brings to the table. JT was just checked entirely out mentally, and PPat was squealing everytime anybody touched him, or would have if he ever allowed such a brutal invasion of his personal space to take place. And then there was Chuck. Chuck wasn't great, but he was just solid, and yes he did occasionally get physical under the glass. That thump you just heard was PPat fainting at the thought. In any case, Chuck provided almost all of the interior resistance we offered and provided solid boardwork amongst the trees (although its worth noting here that the height of the Blazers' bigs is all for show, as none of them are much on the glass). It wasn't until the final stretch run that we finally paid for having to use a 6'6" "big" man as Chuck wasn't able to close the lane, and Lopez suddenly picked up his boardwork and was able to tip several things over Chuck's head. With 3 minutes to play IT even mysteriously decided it was time to give Chuck a goto pass in the post. That went well. But for most of the night Chuck was basically it for us inside, and in subtle fashion was one of the reasons for our big run and the close game in the 4th.

    Stats: 30min 23pts (10-16, 3-7, 0-0) 4reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    McLemore ( A- ) -- was a bit reminscient of the two big games/halves he had in summer league. Did not have much impact in the first half, but when he returned as part of our mass substitution in the mid 3rd he quickly teamed with PPat and IT to bring us roaring back. The interesting thing here, and really through most of his preseason, has been the consistency of what he does and doesn't do. To whatever degree he has a chance to beat out Thornton for the SG spot its not because he has been brilliant, although tonight he had a brilliant streak, but because he's been dependable. When he returned to the game and got red hot it was a spot up 3ptr, a spot up 2ptr, and a dunk on the break. Then another spot up 3ptr, and another dunk on the break. When he went through a cool spell in the early 4th it was a series of missed spot up shots. When he got hot again it was on another open court breakaway and yes several sneaks along the baseline. I'm not sure he even tried to dribble it more than 3 times on any one play, which is a good thing given that our center has a better handle than he does. And so yeah he got hot, and therein comes this grade, but there continues to be this sense even when he's not hot that he's playing the game in a reliable fashion that you can predict and build around. He shoots, and he runs. That's it. At one point here he was shooting the ball far too much, almost every time down the floor, but he's so far from a ballhandler that you have full control over that -- i.e. just don't pass it to him -- and so there seems little danger of it becoming disruptive. In any case, he did not excel at anything else but shooting/scoring here, but he blew up in a big way in the second half until he was cooled late, whether it be due to teammates taking those shots, or Nicholas Batum suddenly appearing to guard him down the stretch. Throw in some athletic help running the floor and once or twice on the boards, and despite some more defensive misadventures (he can't guard PGs laterally) this was a real strong night. Maybe even the one that got him the starting SG spot, we'll see. P.S. One interesting little note: the combination of both what he does well (rise up high with a quick shooting motion) and not well (he has a SF's handle not a guard's) seems to be leading him to being a guy who is very rarely going to appear at the FT line. The jumper is too quick to foul, and he can't create anything off the bounce so nobody ever fouls him there. In 5 preseason games he has taken a total of 5 FTs.

    Stats: 28min 15pts (5-17, 0-3, 5-7) 4reb 10ast 2stl 0blk 2TO
    Thomas ( B- ) -- complex and messy grade here. Note 1: I ain't buying 10 assists. I watched the game. Note 2: I'm not sure what happened with IT, but the first couple of games with Grevis out you got the distinct impression of him trying to consciously dial it back and play like he had teammates rather than it being a 1 on 1 tournament. It was an awkward fit at times, but he was also PGing. Then things took a turn, and he all of a sudden seems to be going on a complete selfishness spiral the last 3 games, and I'm not sure if that is his normal way of trying to compete for a job, or if the coaching staff is encouraging it in his role off the bench. Anyway, those notes are important because what we had here tonight was a guy who was largely ineffective before half, but then came on in the third, and despite being outrageously selfish at times, gave us a huge shot in the arm and completely changed the pace/tone of the game. Only Patterson rivals IT's schizophrenic grade tonight. At one point he had chucked up 11 shots in 13 minutes and even J.R. Smith was covering his face in embarrassment. And yet the pressure he put on the defense revived a moribund team in the 3rd and got us back into the game. In some ways it was the Iverson principle. Iverson was a chucker supreme, fugly, selfish, inefficient...but damn if it didn't put pressure on your defense trying to deal with it. And so IT was forcing up shot after shot, many of them quite bad shots I might add on his way to a 5-17, but in the process things opened up for teammates, then for Isaiah himself. And he did hit some guys every third possession or so, and in particular kept on dribbling around in circles and dumping it off to Patterson stepping into open spots. Moreover it wasn't just a gunning push, he also entered the game and did a much better job than the starters had at staying in front of Lillard, who reacted foolishly as young players do and seemed to want to overpower him or beat him off the dribble rather than just doing the obvious thing and shoot over him. In fact Lillard should really consider himself lucky that the refs bailed him out late in the game with a couple of very questionable fouls on IT. Eventually the selfish stuff caught up to us as IT made furtive attempts to hero things late, but the game wouldn't have been as close as it was if he hadn't have come in and done his thing. So definitely do not want this sort of chucking anywhere near our franchise center in the starting lineup. But it was undeniably effective in bringing us back tonight, ugly or not.

    Stats: 21min 5pts (1-5, 0-1, 3-4) 4reb 0ast 3stl 0blk 0TO
    Outlaw ( C+ ) -- I moved this grade around several times looking for the right fit. basically Outlaw was quietly non existent for much of his time out there on offense, missing both the spot shots he needs to hit, as well as the Outlaw special (aka crap) blow the assist and dribble to a convenient spot to brick a midrange jumper stuff. But in the second half was making some impact helping on defense...right up until the point Malone went all Keith Smart on us and started playing Outlaw at PF, where amazingly enough he proceeded to get overpowered in the post and on the glass. Imagine that. I continue to wonder what makes people look at a 6'9" 210lb guy and think he can play a position with the word "power" in it. This might be a C, I don't know. But it is Travis Outlaw afterall, and I thought he was starting to help as a roleplayer until his coach threw him out of position again, so its hard to place the blame there on him particularly.

    Stats: 14min 9pts (3-6, 2-5, 1-1) 0reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
    Fredette ( C+ ) -- the statline here is a bit suspect, with almost all of it coming in the final 2 minutes of the game. Did not even enter the game for the first time until the late 3rd, effectively making Ben a SF. Did ok v. Mo Williams on defense for a few minutes, but for 10 minutes was just kind of out there, the other guy while IT dribbled around in circles, and PPat and BenMac handled all the gunning duties. But the difference was that normally having Jimmer Fredette on the floor without having him shoot the ball is a net negative for you. He's pretty bad at all the dirty work stuff. And yet tonight, he was unexceptional. Something suddenly changed in the last 3 minutes or so though. Jimmer finally got a shot, and bricked a long three. But then all of a sudden all those shots that had been going to McClemore seemed to go to Jimmer and he started doing the Smart era gunner thing from all angles. Two threes dropped in, and suddenly a remarkably quiet outing had some numbers next to it, but it didn't feel important. In fact most of the grade has nothing to do with hitting a couple of semi-garbagetime threes, and more to do with him staying in front of Williams for the most part and not being a liability during that long stretch when he barely touched it.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
    jalfa likes this.
  2. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call McLemore's pre season as a 20 year old rookie "mediocre", he has played great, especially tonight. I don't know whats wrong with Thornton and JT looks like he has regressed, at least offensively. Last year he looked much more composed on offense, this year he is back to looking like the Tazmanian Devil out there. Everyone else has played as expected.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  3. HereWeBoogie

    HereWeBoogie Well-Known Member

    by looking at the Poll it looks like im in the majority when i say i want to see this lineup on opening night:
    Mbah a Moute

    anyone know the extent of Luc's injury? will he play at all in preseason?
  4. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I'd start GV and Ben in the backcourt....big a little bit better defensively than having MT with GV. Like the idea of Luc in there but without seeing them together yet, not so sure. Like PPat as a stretch 4 next to Cuz.

    What I'd like to see off the bench with IT is Ray. I believe he's as big as MT and Jimmer and can play some defense and handle the ball. Not so sure about an IT and Jimmer backcourt off the bench as it would be fairly crappy defensively. I'd have MT out of the rotation as well as Salmons. Those 2 don't seem to fit.
  5. Dank

    Dank Member

    IMO we need Vasquez to start at the point to facilitate/ run an actual offense(Would be the first true point to run this team since Mike Bibby I believe), we need his playmaking to get everybody else going especially DeMarcus. At this point I think Marcus Thornton is the better player and therefore should be the starter by default but I think it should be Ben McLemore so that he can not only develop but develop at a faster rate. At small forward I want to say Luc should start for defensive purposes that this team really needs but he is injured and based off what I've read we don't know when he will be at 100% again so after him unfortunately its probably going to continue to be John Salmons but if Isiah/McLemore started in the back court Salmons' play making and ball handling would come in handy. Power forward I think is the biggest toss up, while Patterson would be great for the offense being able to stretch the floor and create more space for DeMarcus down low he would be a defensive liability and cannot rebound very well. with Jason Thompson we would have better rebounding and better defense and because of Demarcus' lack of defensive skills I think JT would just barley be the better fit for defensive purposes. And for center well im not even going to comment on that I think we all know who is starting there lol.
  6. HighFlyingMonkey

    HighFlyingMonkey Well-Known Member

    Well I think with Cousins in the lineup, Vasquez starts to distribute the ball and the offense runs through Demarcus.

    Next, you surround them with the best combination of defense, shooting, and movement off the ball. To me thats McLemore/Outlaw/Thompson.

    Off the bench, put the ball in Isaiah's hands, with Thornton off the ball. Moute brings some defense off the bench. Patterson and Hayes as the backup bigs.
  7. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    wow who would ever have predicted this landslide for McLemore after summer league! I voted with the majority, and I'm not stuck on Patterson over Thompson so if it goes that way I'm ok too.

    Funny Mbah a Moute gets so many votes (including mine) without having played. That's what its like having a VOID at a position I guess...
  8. CruzDude

    CruzDude Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden

    As to grades, well the team basically couldn't get their act together in the first half. No Cuz made life really, really tough. JT started at the 5 andPPat at the 4 but JT could not get it going and 3 fouls had him onthe bench. As a learning experience it was probably a good lesson as they had to start to dig out of their own hole. Certain combinations were not working so well while others worked better. From a 9 pt hole at the half they got to within 5 then suddenly it was 19 pts late in the 3rd. Jimmer came in for his first minutes and in the 4th the Kings took a lead. Seems from listening to Gerry on the web cast and team play that he had a steading influence. McLemore also got his rhythm and lit it up. Gonna b hard form him not to get large minutes very soon.
  9. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I thought the front office was shaping the roster and needlessly signing LAndry with the idea of supplanting Patterson?
  10. itzcoatl

    itzcoatl Well-Known Member

    Oooh. Tough poll. I voted for Vazquez (solid majority), Thompson (I like his work ethic and thinks he gets it for his long tenure here, even though his play has been very bad this preseason), and Outlaw (only because I haven't seen Mbah a Moute play). The one unconventional pick I had was Jimmer starting. Now, I have been a big Jimmer hater and I'm still upset that we passed on other players for him in the draft, but I'd like to see him matched up with Vazquez. Maybe that is too much of a defensive liability, but it seems to me that if we want Jimmer to grow into a poor-man's Mike Bibby, Vazquez could be his Doug Christie. I'll admit that I could be very wrong, though.
  11. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    BLAST! I hit the wrong little box thingy. I meant to vote for Outlaw and not Salmons.
  12. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    I used Brick's advice "to vote for anybody" and voted for V, McL, Pat, and Thompson. That won't be who does start but ........
  13. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    Based off of what we have seen in the pre season

    PG: Vasquez
    SG: McLemore
    SF: Outlaw
    PF: Patterson
    C: Cousins

    2nd unit
    PG: IT
    SG: Jimmer
    SF: Salmons
    PF: JT
    C: Hayes

    but based on hierarchy Thornton will at least get a chance to start and Mbah is on paper the best SF option based on need (defense). Whats the status on him?
  14. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Yikes Thornton at 1 vote??? IT has a goose egg:eek:

    Those two were favorites of Coach Smart and his run and chuck offense. Those two are both "better" than Freddette and Ray Mac. I can see one or both being in Coach Malone's dog house because they won't/can't run the team system he wants.


    PS I voted for Luc and PPat and it could just as easily have been Outlaw and JT. But GV, Ben and DMC are it at the 1,2 and 5.
  15. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    wow i'm suprised threres 0 votes for IT, Vasquez is clearly better as a starter for what he brings, but overall they are pretty close, i could see IT closing many games this season. IT is really the only guy that can create for himself other than Cousins.
  16. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    Thornton has dissapointed me so far, when you compare him to a 2o year old Ben, you see Ben knowing how he is going to get his points(coming off screens, 2 dribble pull ups, running the floor, occasional cut to the rim). On the other hand it seems Thornton is stuck in Keith Smart mode where every guy gets their own shot, all his points are off of broken plays leading to isolations, putbacks, etc. Why not treat Thornton like B-Mac? Don't know if it has been playcalling, or Thornton just having an identity crisis. Whatever it is, he looks disinterested out there, while Ben looks hungry to take that starting spot.
    dude12 likes this.
  17. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    He wasn't an opton, but i'm thinking Chuck might be the best "starter" next to Cousins. Of the 3 guys vying for the job, he's easily been the best defensive player and he's been the most consistent on the boards. Also, a lot of his value lies with his post defense which,a lot of the time gets wasted on back-up bigs. I think putting him on the other teams best offensive post player can help keep Boogie out of early foul trouble and let him focus on getting off to a good start offensively.

    In a sense, it's sort of the same logic OKC used with starting Thabo and having Harden+Martin come off the bench. Harden and Martin are obviously superior players, but it served OKC better to allow Thabo get 6-8 minutes of top-tier perimeter defense and let Westbrook+Durant find a rhythm early without having to involve another offensive minded player into the mix. Ppat and JT obviously aren't near the caliber of scorer/player as those guys but the idea is still similar. Let Chuck defend the Horford/Lee/Aldridge/Love type guys and get Boogie into an offensive rhythm early.

    The thing to question would be, especially if Mbah starts, is if a GV-McLemore-Cousins for example, could score enough to carry those 2 guys?
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  18. BLNINJA #81

    BLNINJA #81 Member

    I like your post, and having read it, I'd change my selections if possible. Doing something like that may actually work in terms of plugging up a deficiency. If we'd keep him in the high post on offense primarily, and on the best post player defensively, this may have more chemistry with the current group.
  19. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    To me as poor as Patterson has been on the boards and defence his high IQ, passing and shooting mean he has to start next to Cousins. JT does solid on the boards but is a awful passer and we really need his size when Cousins is not on the floor cause all our other PF's are 6'8 and below.

    Vasquez, M16, Outlaw, Patterson and Cousins imo is our best line up we have excellent length at 4 of the positions (PPat not being the one), we have two gun shooter and two solid (Outlaw when taking decent shots) shooters. Having JT in there just clogs the lane for everyone as does Chuck Hayes and it's not like either are that much better than Patterson on D to make up for the lack of shooting.
  20. jalfa

    jalfa Well-Known Member

    as terrible as he has looked in the preseason so far, it still has to be Thornton starting for me. a) I'd like to avoid playing him and IT together for extended stretches at all cost, b) there's still hope he gets it together, starts playing well and helps his trade value, c) as unhappy as he has seemed at times last season playing behind Tyreke, what is going to happen if he gets stuck behind a rookie? he might axe-murder Ben at some point. based on merit, Ben should be starting for sure, but for these other considerations I'd want MT to get the nod, with the caveat that, as soon as there's a decent trade offer for him, he needs to be gone and Ben needs to start.
  21. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Vasquez, McLemore, Outlaw, Patterson, Cousins.

    MT is a very talented guy, but it's between him or IT off the bench, and I do not want IT starting and not passing the ball to Cousins and McLemore. MT and IT can't coexist because neither will pass the ball to let the other score, and neither play D. Patterson does a terrible job on the boards and I hope to mitigate some of that by having him on the floor with Cousins. The second unit doesn't even need to have any other offensive threats that create for themselves because IT isn't passing the ball anyway, so you might as well let him go 1 on 5 chucking and have the other 4 guys be solid defenders/ spot up shooters in the event that he decides to pass the ball.

    Possible 2nd unit:
    IT, Salmons/Jimmer, Luc, JT, Chuck Hayes

    Trade MT for somebody because right now it's clear he doesn't fit in, and I don't think we can get much value for IT to allow Thornton to become the spark off the bench.
  22. Hadlowe

    Hadlowe Well-Known Member

    IT can play with either McLemore or Vasquez. If Vasquez can get healthy and handle 30+ minutes per night, you can effectively shrink the rotation down to three guards. Right now, those are the three best guards on the team, although team ball concept seems to be eluding IT at the moment. I'd like to move either Thornton, Jimmer, or both in an attempt to bring back a starting quality SF. Salmons is enough insurance for the 2-guard position if both of them were shipped out. McCallum can be ankle insurance for Vasquez with the idea of developing him as the defensive bench guard 2 years down the road.

    I really don't want to play McCallum at the 2. He is a natural point guard, and his outside shooting is suspect at best. It would be really nice if we could play players in their natural position for a change.
  23. Hadlowe

    Hadlowe Well-Known Member

    Really? I think IT is the most valuable trade chip on the team. You can package him with one of the albatross contracts o bring back a valuable piece. He is cheap and an immediate contributor.
  24. Sac.Kings

    Sac.Kings Well-Known Member

    Why is this so important? I don't understand the fascination with these types of players. I do not want IT to do this with Cousins on the court, its a detriment to the team. A PG shouldn't look to create for himself 3/5 times down the court, I literally cannot stand to watch that type of basketball anymore. I just want the ball to move and end up in Cousins' hands every single time down the court and if Cousins is not free or can't finish/double team, I want him to pass to the open man. It's really that simple. Cousins is unique he can run the offense in ways 98% of big men dream about; he is our trump card and I trust his decision making 10 times over IT's. We have seen enough of players that can "create their own shot." Not surprisingly, we have sucked every single year with those types... from IT to Thornton to Tyreke to John freakin Salmons. Let's play some team ball shall we? For once.

    Only a select few players have the capability to create their own shot and score consistently without it being a detriment to the team and even then it can still ruin a team's flow on offense. Look at Kobe. I have seen him play countless times and there have been times when they lost because he shot too much and didn't give it up enough. IT isn't 1/10 as gifted as Kobe, but yet manages to shoot 17 times in 28 minutes. That's ridiculous. If we had a Durant/Lebron type of player, I would sit back and say go to work and do what you want. Those are hall of fame players and they can win you the game doing that. IT cannot. Don't wanna stir up old memories, but thank god we got Vasquez when we lost Tyreke. He has his faults, but at least he knows when to pass the ball.
  25. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    That's the only way you get back a valuable piece though - if you package him with someone else. I'm not sure how the FA thing works with 2nd round picks but in any case him being an expiring also comes into play when trying to trade him as the main valuable piece. If you're trying to match salary to salary it's unlikely that you get anyone of value back in return.
  26. Fear the Putin

    Fear the Putin Well-Known Member

  27. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    I am suprised at the votes for mbah mute. he has played like 5 min.
  28. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Considering the other choices are underwhelming, I like the idea of him starting and playing defense. What happens in reality could be a different story.
  29. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Ray at t
    Ray at the PG spot with IT running the wing .....takes the ball out of his hand a little. Come to think of it, IT or Jimmer or MT paired with Ray off the bench.
  30. MassachusettsKingsFan

    MassachusettsKingsFan Well-Known Member

    After watching every preseason game we've played .. I can't figure out what is going on with Thornton. It's so strange.

    He's never open. That's the difference between what he is doing and what McLemore is doing. If you give Thornton the type of shots McLemore is getting he'd score just as many points and he'd be just as efficient, if not more efficient. The question is WHY isn't Thornton getting open? are we not running anything for him? or is his effort just terrible right now? We are clearly running plays for Ben, he's moving without the ball and finding his spots .. why isn't Thornton doing this? CAN Thornton do this? I don't know.

    And I'm a big Thornton fan, or I have been in the past. His play right now just doesn't make any sense.

    I voted for Cousins, Patterson, Salmons, Thornton, and Vasquez in the poll because that is who I think is going to start. If it was my decision I'd strongly consider starting McLemore, which I honestly thought would be near impossible after watching him in the summer league.

    Side note - How about Gerald Wallace and his massive deal, along with Humphries (big expiring) for Thornton, Hayes, and Salmons expiring. There is a deal to be made with Boston. They have almost 20 million dedicated to mediocre small forwards over the next 3 years with Wallace and Green.

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