Portland/Denver Trade

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#9
Yeargh... Portland might have "gotten" them, but that trade is bad news for us: the frontcourt combination of Jokic and FIBA World Champion Mason Plumlee is a tough matchup for us.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#10
Yes, this was the good brother from that Nets team. The other Plumlee was horrible. He got paid 12.5million by the Bucks in the offseason and he barely played in like 5 games.. they ended up trading him to the Hornets for Hawes and Hibbert... :rolleyes:
I wasn't talking about the Plumlees.
 
#11
Yeargh... Portland might have "gotten" them, but that trade is bad news for us: the frontcourt combination of Jokic and FIBA World Champion Mason Plumlee is a tough matchup for us.
This trade points to Portland tanking right? However, it means that the Blazers have 3 1st rounders now. Their own pick (12), Grizz's pick (21), and another team's pick (28). I could see them packaging all of those picks+Crabbe for an above average starter.
Nurkic makes their defense worse.... but they do get an extra 1st round pick from it. Especially in a draft many consider elite.

Despite giving up a 1st round pick(Grizz's), this trade makes Denver better.. I think they're clear-cut favorites for 8th seed now. It's really interesting to see if Portland does anything to counter it. Are they planning on tanking? Or they trying to up the ante and go after another player? This trade clearly helped boost the Nuggets up one.

So what kind of +/- wins effect for each team does this trade have?
I'm really not sure, but it makes the Nuggets better. They add a really good rebounder and solid defender. Plumlee is also an amazing passer.. so expect some high-low action.

It makes the Blazers worse. They have terrible perimeter defense, and now, they have terrible interior defense. Either the Blazers are tanking, or they have another trade waiting to happen.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
This trade points to Portland tanking right? However, it means that the Blazers have 3 1st rounders now. Their own pick (12), Grizz's pick (21), and another team's pick (28). I could see them packaging all of those picks+Crabbe for an above average starter.
Nurkic makes their defense worse.... but they do get an extra 1st round pick from it. Especially in a draft many consider elite.

Despite giving up a 1st round pick(Grizz's), this trade makes Denver better.. I think they're clear-cut favorites for 8th seed now. It's really interesting to see if Portland does anything to counter it. Are they planning on tanking? Or they trying to up the ante and go after another player? This trade clearly helped boost the Nuggets up one.


I'm really not sure, but it makes the Nuggets better. They add a really good rebounder and solid defender. Plumlee is also an amazing passer.. so expect some high-low action.

It makes the Blazers worse. They have terrible perimeter defense, and now, they have terrible interior defense. Either the Blazers are tanking, or they have another trade waiting to happen.
Nurkic may have real potential. Nasty defender and competitor. Just undisciplined, and the nasty may not always be focused in the right direction.

Not sure if he's ready to realize it this year, but he's a guy who long term could make Plumlee look like gum on your shoe. Or not. Its a good gamble though for a completely middle/sub middle of the road guy like Plumlee.
 
#13
Wow. What a deal. I do wonder however if Portland is not finished with their C spot yet. While I think they win this trade, they still have to replace Plumlees 28 minutes per game. Considering that Nurkic usually does not play more than 20 min per game and that Portlands weakness is defense, could they be in the hunt for another defensive minded C like Koufos? Aminu/Harkless would be a awesome but they are probably too valuable. Maybe Ezeli + first rounder?

Edit: Indeed, they are still open regarding new Cs :p

Keith Smith‏ @KeithSmithNBA
Sources say that this trade does not take POR out of the Okafor running. Could pair him with Nurkic long term at C. Extra picks to deal now.
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#14
Not sure if he's ready to realize it this year, but he's a guy who long term could make Plumlee look like gum on your shoe. Or not. Its a good gamble though for a completely middle/sub middle of the road guy like Plumlee.
I would suggest that it's more than a good gamble for Denver: it's a great gamble for them. What difference doesn't make if Nurkić is more talented, if Plumlee is a better fit? I mean, Denver appears to have decided that Jokic is their guy, and they appear to have also decided that Jokic and Nurkić can't play together. And what's the best-case scenario for a team with two ball-dominant guards, and a stud center as the third option? Toronto? That's the closest that's come in the NBA to that actually working, right?

Meanwhile, FIBA World Champion Mason Plumlee is the quintessential role playing power forward to play alongside a dominant center; win-win trade, IYAM.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
Wow. What a deal. I do wonder however if Portland is not finished with their C spot yet. While I think they win this trade, they still have to replace Plumlees 28 minutes per game. Considering that Nurkic usually does not play more than 20 min per game and that Portlands weakness is defense, could they be in the hunt for another defensive minded C like Koufos? Aminu/Harkless would be a awesome but they are probably too valuable. Maybe Ezeli + first rounder?

Edit: Indeed, they are still open regarding new Cs :p

Keith Smith‏ @KeithSmithNBA
Sources say that this trade does not take POR out of the Okafor running. Could pair him with Nurkic long term at C. Extra picks to deal now.

Nurkic playing 20min a game is not written in stone. Two years ago it looked like the guy might be a potential star. Certainly has a lot more talent than Plumlee, and they were playing him nearly 30.

On the other hand Nurkic's strength's are his weaknesses. He fouls too much, and his focus is all over he place. When he's good you think he might be a new Andrew Bogut. When he's bad...he's very very bad and unplayable. Pretty sure he wanted his own team/starting spot however, so seeing what he does with it will be interesting.
 
#16
Nurkic playing 20min a game is not written in stone. Two years ago it looked like the guy might be a potential star. Certainly has a lot more talent than Plumlee, and they were playing him nearly 30.

On the other hand Nurkic's strength's are his weaknesses. He fouls too much, and his focus is all over he place. When he's good you think he might be a new Andrew Bogut. When he's bad...he's very very bad and unplayable. Pretty sure he wanted his own team/starting spot however, so seeing what he does with it will be interesting.
Thats true. I actually like Nurkic, the NBA should have more guys like him. But for the sake of our playoffs chances I hope he's not a game changer for them :p So we will have to wait and see what Portland does next.
 
#20
look for Mike Malone to kill someone upstairs
why though? Jokic is the future of that team. He's already better than Cousins at the same age. It's like if we had a young Cousins and Greg Monroe. We decided to trade Monroe because he's a lot less talented, and doesn't fit alongside our franchise player. They get better through this trade
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#21
why though? Jokic is the future of that team. He's already better than Cousins at the same age. It's like if we had a young Cousins and Greg Monroe. We decided to trade Monroe because he's a lot less talented, and doesn't fit alongside our franchise player. They get better through this trade
Jokic, age 21: 16.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 4.3 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.8 bpg
Boogie, age 21: 18.1 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.2 bpg

While Jokic has played out of his mind this season and is steadily getting better, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
 
#22
Jokic, age 21: 16.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 4.3 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.8 bpg
Boogie, age 21: 18.1 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.2 bpg

While Jokic has played out of his mind this season and is steadily getting better, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
Uhm you forgot the most important stats lol

Jokic: 26.8mins 16.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 4.4apg, 0.8bpg, 0.8spg, 2.1tos
59% FG, 36.4% 3pt, 82% FT

Cousins: 30.5mins 18.1ppg, 11rpg, 1.6apg, 1.5spg, 1.2bpg, 2.7tos
44.8% FG, 0% 3pt, 70.2% FT
Jokic isn't the rebounder or defender Cousins is yet, but all of those things will improve with strength. At the same age, he's already a more talented scorer. He can score from all levels of the floor, including the 3pt line. Cousins was mainly just a post scorer. On top of this, Jokic is A LOT more efficient than 21 yearold Cousins.. FG% tells the story. Jokic is already an amazing passer. At 21yearsold, he's already better than Cousins currently is now.

per36 numbers:
Jokic: 21.9ppg, 11.9rpg, 5.8apg, 1bpg, 1spg
Cousins: 21.4ppg, 13rpg, 1.9apg, 1.4bpg, 1.6spg

I didn't buy the Jokic hype at first, but after watching him play, he's been amazing. He's such a polarizing player because he can do almost everything. In my eyes, I think he's better than Porzingis, and already on KAT's level. There's an argument that he's more talented than KAT, but that's not an argument I'd make.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#23
Uhm you forgot the most important stats lol

Jokic: 26.8mins 16.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 4.4apg, 0.8bpg, 0.8spg, 2.1tos
59% FG, 36.4% 3pt, 82% FT

Cousins: 30.5mins 18.1ppg, 11rpg, 1.6apg, 1.5spg, 1.2bpg, 2.7tos
44.8% FG, 0% 3pt, 70.2% FT
Jokic isn't the rebounder or defender Cousins is yet, but all of those things will improve with strength. At the same age, he's already a more talented scorer. He can score from all levels of the floor, including the 3pt line. Cousins was mainly just a post scorer. On top of this, Jokic is A LOT more efficient than 21 yearold Cousins.. FG% tells the story. Jokic is already an amazing passer. At 21yearsold, he's already better than Cousins currently is now.

per36 numbers:
Jokic: 21.9ppg, 11.9rpg, 5.8apg, 1bpg, 1spg
Cousins: 21.4ppg, 13rpg, 1.9apg, 1.4bpg, 1.6spg

I didn't buy the Jokic hype at first, but after watching him play, he's been amazing. He's such a polarizing player because he can do almost everything. In my eyes, I think he's better than Porzingis, and already on KAT's level. There's an argument that he's more talented than KAT, but that's not an argument I'd make.
No, I mean, more than anything, it's probably a wash. Jokic gets the benefit of having a better supporting cast than Boogie did in his age 21 season and definitely a better coaching situation (Mike Malone vs. Westphal and Keith Smart) but you'll have no arguments from me about the man being a stud and possibly being the best young big in the league as of this moment.
 
#24
Uhm you forgot the most important stats lol

Jokic: 26.8mins 16.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 4.4apg, 0.8bpg, 0.8spg, 2.1tos
59% FG, 36.4% 3pt, 82% FT

Cousins: 30.5mins 18.1ppg, 11rpg, 1.6apg, 1.5spg, 1.2bpg, 2.7tos
44.8% FG, 0% 3pt, 70.2% FT
Jokic isn't the rebounder or defender Cousins is yet, but all of those things will improve with strength. At the same age, he's already a more talented scorer. He can score from all levels of the floor, including the 3pt line. Cousins was mainly just a post scorer. On top of this, Jokic is A LOT more efficient than 21 yearold Cousins.. FG% tells the story. Jokic is already an amazing passer. At 21yearsold, he's already better than Cousins currently is now.

per36 numbers:
Jokic: 21.9ppg, 11.9rpg, 5.8apg, 1bpg, 1spg
Cousins: 21.4ppg, 13rpg, 1.9apg, 1.4bpg, 1.6spg

I didn't buy the Jokic hype at first, but after watching him play, he's been amazing. He's such a polarizing player because he can do almost everything. In my eyes, I think he's better than Porzingis, and already on KAT's level. There's an argument that he's more talented than KAT, but that's not an argument I'd make.
He's going to be great, no doubt, but I am looking forward to see how he responds when teams zero in on him from the get-go. Right now, he's playing at an elite level at the age of 21 and he's largely responsible for the Nuggets being in the 8th spot. I attribute some of his great games because teams are not yet "focused in" on him. If he can keep this up when he is being double or triple teamed nightly, then I am really going to be impressed.

There is no denying the talent though. Sometimes I wonder if he's even interested in basketball, that's how easy he makes everything look on the court. Like a walk in the park....