Players to watch: 2016/17 college season.

Discussion in 'Prospects' started by bajaden, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Isaac is all about potential at this point. But he has great size and is a very good athlete. They don't go to him very often on offense, and in a couple of the games I watched, he got into early foul trouble. I really wish college would go to six fouls like the NBA. Very irritating when your watching to see one particular player, and he sits the whole first half because he has two fouls. Arrrgh!
  2. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Watched the Duke/Georgia Tech game, which wasn't much of a game, but Harry Giles is starting to shake off the rust. He's a player that if we end up with our pick, that I would be very interested in if he slid down to the 9th or 10th spot due to his previous injuries. You can see him trying to do all the things he used to do before surgery, but his body hasn't yet caught up with his mind. He looks frustrated at times, but then you see the occasional flash of his previous self. Someone to keep your eye on the rest of the way.

    Jayson Tatum is still trying to find his way, but he's going to be a stud. He has an NBA body and is very skilled. He doesn't get the touches he would get on a team where he was the best player, but you can see the talent dripping off of him. Bolden is like an animal on the court. Still a bit raw in the post, trying to use his athleticism as his main weapon. A player that's being overlooked, is Luke Kennard. The dude can shoot, handle, pass, and defend. Allen gets all the press in the backcourt, but Kennard is a very good, fundamentally sound basketball player.
  3. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Watched Harry Giles again today, and he's shaking the rust off very quickly. Becoming more aggressive, and starting to impact the game. Duke starting both him and Tatum together. Both are going to be solid to extremely good NBA players. I expect to see Giles start climbing up the draft boards.
  4. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Took in the Creighton/Providence game. Justin Patton is the real deal. Kid is improving every game. He's a very good passer for a seven footer and has excellent handles as well. He's following a similar path as Anthony Davis, in that he played guard through most of highschool, and then suddenly shot up to seven foot, bringing his guard skills with him. Still learning how to play like a big man, but he's definitely a talent. Creighton also has a senior PG named Maurice Watson who is very good. Undersized at 5'11", but definitely a pass first PG who is impossible to keep out of the lane. Fun player to watch. He and Patton have good chemistry together.

    Also watched the Illinois/Indiana game. O.G. Anonoby has to be one of the best defensive SF's in college. He reminds me of a young Ron Artest. Great instincts combined with terrific lateral quickness. Kid has a huge wingspan. He's almost cat like with his movements. He can definitely defend two positions, maybe three. Great prospect.

    This is a great year for college basketball. There's talent everywhere you look.
    Suicide King likes this.
  5. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I think draft sites are missing out on PF John Collins out of Wake Forest.
    He's a 19 year old Sophomore from Florida. 6'10 235lbs.

    Stats in his freshman year:
    14.4 minutes: 7.3pts----3.9rebs----0.7blks----1.0tos----2.6fouls----0.3stl----0.2ast
    • 54.7% FG (4.8 FGA)
    • 69.1% FT (3FTA)
    Stats so far in sophomore year:
    23.9minutes: 16.4pts----9.5rebs----1.6blks----1.7tos----2.9fouls----0.6stl----0.4ast
    • 59.6% FG (10.4FGA)
    • 70.6% FT (5.7FTA)

    Getting stats out of the way, Collins is an extremely young sophomore who turned 19 in September, which is on par with freshman prospects like Lonzo Ball, DeAaron Fox, Jonathan Isaac, Dennis Smith Jr, and even younger than Josh Jackson and Lauri Markkanen. He made tremendous strides in his 2nd year, and they were mostly due to the fact that he was able to play more disciplined on defense. He was in much less foul trouble in his rookie year.
    Collins is an extremely athletic PF who can finish above the rim, run in transition, and finish around the rim. He plays with a very high motor on both ends which allows him to be a great offensive rebounder, while also being a good rim protector.

    Offense: On offense, Collins does have a back to the basket game. He's more on the lighter side at 235, but he has the ability to back his opponents down to his spots, then use his quick footwork to turn around and score at the rim. He's showing improvements as a post player, but will need to bulk up for the NBA. He seems to always get into great position down low on his man(his guards miss him a lot). While he can post up, he seems to be more of a face up PF. He has the ability to face up, and settle for a short jumper, OR he drives and finishes all the way...OR, even more uniquely, he faces up, drives, gets to his spot on the floor, then plays with his back to the basket. The 3rd move is very interesting, because I think he knows he does have some limitations against stronger players, so he uses his quickness in the face up game to pick his spots. Around the rim, he has great touch. Displays a lot of patience under the rim, and doesn't always go for the home-run dunk. On top of being a decent back to the basket player, as well as a good face up player, he's also a nice mid range shooter. He shows consistent mechanics and it gives some promise that he could extend it out to the 3pt range. He's much more of an inside scorer than a perimeter threat. As of right now, he's not a threat from deep at all. He's a poor passer as indicated by his poor ast rate. He needs to get better as a passer from the post. Sometimes he'll force shots instead of passing it out. I don't think this is indicative of poor bball IQ, but more about the scoring mentality that he has(27pts per40). He has no problem with fitting in the flow of offenses.

    With his entire offensive skillset, he can be an amazing PnR, PnP threat. Right now, his screen setting has been poor. He's not patient enough in letting them develop.

    Defense: On defense, he's good at boxing out. Always seems to have good inside position even when he's not able to grab the rebound. Collins does need to continue his defensive IQ. Sometimes, he leaves his man too much in trying to help. On 1v1 scenarios, he does a good job in maintaining his upper-body while getting his hands up when needed. He has the quickness to recover if they do get by him with post moves. He'll need to add more strength to his lower body. On the perimeter, he's decent at defending guards. His lateral quickness and footspeed help him a lot. When switched, he does a good job keeping up with guards and contesting at the hoop. Sometimes he does get into foul trouble when tries to reach in. Collins is a good rim protector. He uses his wingspan and affects a lot of shots. I think he's more than a weak-side shot blocker because he does display the understanding of when he should go for a block, or when he just should jump straight up. Even with all of this being said, he's not a polished defensive prospect. He'll need to keep working on his fundamentals and stay out of foul trouble.

    He's such a unique prospect because of his physical tools. I think he deserves to have his name in the 1st round. Definitely an underrated player who I've seen no one talk about. I'm not saying Collins is a perfect prospect, or even that he should be a in the lotto, but I think at least late 1st round would be good landing spot. Something interesting...I was looking at a Wake Forest fan forum, and there was a fan bashing Collins because he's not able to average 20 and 10. lol.
  6. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think Collins has to stay in school at least one more year, maybe two. He has virtually no game away from the basket. He's a dunking machine, but at his size, he needs to be able to step out and hit a jumpshot, which he seldom takes. He as no three point shot at all, which doesn't bode well for an undersized PF, who played center his entire time in highschool. He's also a foul magnet, which put him on the bench far too often. I'm sure scouts will be very interested in how he measures out. The only measurements that I could find were from the Nike game where he measured out at 6'7" without shoes, but more concerning was that his wingspan was only 6'8". Visually, his wingspan appears longer than that. We'll see!

    Now to be fair, he could have grown since those measurements, but if not, your talking a 6'9" player in shoes, maybe, with a T Rex wingspan and no outside shot. Which would explain why he's not being mentioned nationally by any of the draft pundits. He has SF athleticism, but no SF skills. Not saying he couldn't play in the NBA, but Iám saying that he's not ready right now.
  7. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Have to disagree with you somewhat. I've only watched about 4 full WF games this season, and from those, Collins did flash potential in the perimeter. I know hoop-math isn't the most reliable, but according to their stats, Collins attempts 43.6% 2pt jumpers. He makes them at 41.2%. Currently, he only "attempts" 10 FGs(that aren't fouled), so that's a rough estimate of 4 2pt jumpers/game?
    Even if you think their stats are a little off, he does show a really promising FT% at 70%.
    I think if he continues this steady improvement of 15pts 9rebs 1blk with good shooting stats at the end of the year, his draft stock will ultimately come down to his measurements. I'll admit, last year, I thought Chriss was 6'9, max with shoes. Was really surprised to see him measure out at 6'8.75 w/o shoes.
    sidenote: had no idea that DX actually did bump Collins since I started his writeup.. he's currently at 35.

    Hopefully bringing up a PF prospect breaks the ice for others PFs and Cs. Some have labeled the PF and Cs as a weaker position in this draft, but I think it's really good. There's no KAT this year, but there are fair some of other amazing prospects. Giles would be a close KAT if not for the injuries.

    Isaiah Hartenstein, Bam Adebayo, Ivan Rabb, Tyler Lydon, TJ Leaf, Robert Williams, and Thomas Bryant to name a decent start list.
  8. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Don't have anything against Collins, but I don't think he's first round material. Maybe next year he might be, but in this draft, there's so much talent at the top that he's going to be pushed down. Personally, if I had to choose between him and Patton, I'd take Patton ten times out of ten, and I d0n't think Patton is even listed on most draft boards. I do expect that to change. Patton is really talented but still trying to figure out how to do the same things at seven foot that he did at 6'4".

    Keep your eye on Giles. He's coming along quicker than I thought he would. He is KAT like in ability, but is more of a PF than a Center. Players like KAT come along once every ten or so years. Not a good year for polished centers. But a good crop of PF's with guys like Leaf, Rabb, Williams, Jarrett Allen, Lauri Markkanen, Jonathan Motley, Caleb Swanigan, Sebastian Saiz, and some would include Isasc and Anunoby in that group. A couple of guys that I think can play both PF and SF. Actually, I think Motley can also play both positions. Saiz is more of rebounding machine and energy bunny right now, but he's a good athlete and does excel at rebounding and defending.
  9. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    Anyone knows what happens to the 2017 NBA draft pick if we finish in the top ten and Philly doesn't? Sixers have been playing well recently :(. Do the Bulls get the pick?
  10. gil renard

    gil renard Active Member

    I would think we would swap picks with Philly and retain their pick outside of the top 10 if that scenario happened, since it's our original pick that is owed to Chicago and not the Philly swap. I don't know, it's been explained so many times and I still find it confusing...it would totally be a Kangz thing to happen if we did end up tanking for a top 10 pick and then lose it to Chicago via the Philly swap.
  11. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    If our pick (NOT Philly's pick) is #11 or worse, Chicago gets it. If our pick is #10 or better, Chicago gets our second-round pick, and Philly gets the option to swap.
    Suicide King likes this.
  12. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    No, that cannot happen.
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  13. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Whether or not the Bulls get our pick is based on where the Kings end up.
  14. gil renard

    gil renard Active Member

    Good to know, I wasn't sure either.
  15. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm glad that's settled.... I believe we're currently in the 10th spot right now.
  16. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I'm glad to hear it. With the lengthy road trip coming up, that ought to solidify them deeper in the standings I'd imagine.
  17. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well, the way we've been playing, I'd say the odds are that yep, well have a firm grip on the 10th spot, or perhaps even the 9th spot. But you never know. Stranger things have happened. Read a nice article on the Toronto Raptors today about how they realize their on the cusp of winning the East, but need that one piece to complete the picture if their going to defeat the Cav's. However, they're not willing to sacrifice the future for the now. Especially when there are no guarantee's of success.

    The implication was that they would love to have Milsap, but know the cost would be high, and affect the team going forward. So no deal is likely unless something falls into their lap. You can agree or disagree with that approach, but at least they have a plan and they're sticking to it. They're currently in second place in the East, so they're in good position to make a move if something presents itself. They have some young talent, and draft picks to offer if and when the right deal comes along. Personally, I like their approach, but one could argue that they have a window of opportunity right now, and therefore, should make a big move. I can see both sides.
  18. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    Well, we've got an expiring SF/PF that would come MUCH cheaper than Millsap. Think the Raptors would be interested? :rolleyes:
  19. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Masai Ujiri is a man with a plan and has built this roster as we see it today. He is a quality GM. I like his approach of not gutting his youth for the present, even if Kyle & DeMar are in their prime right now.
  20. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Anyone have thoughts on Mississippi St. SG Quinndary Weatherspoon?

    6'4 205lb Sophomore out of Miss. It's assumed that he has a long wingspan, but there's no official numbers. He's not listed on any draft sites. DX has him as their #36 ranked Sophomore and #28 ranked SEC prospect.

    Weatherspoon looks to have a decent size for SG. I know he's slightly shorter, but he makes it up with his frame and bulk. He's really athletic and agile. His biggest trait is his ability to shoot 3pters. Currently for the season, he's attempting 4.9 3s, and making them at a 45.2%. He's an off-ball player, but does display some ball handling. On defense, he seems to be good on that end. 2.1stls reflect on his ability to get in the passing lanes.
  21. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    LOL! Sure, why not? Whats that definition of insanity?
  22. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, he's done a good job there. Knows something about fitting pieces together. I'm hopeful that Vlade has a long term plan for the Kings. I'm also hopeful that Kings fans realize that long term, means that sometimes it's not obvious in the present.
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  23. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Interesting player! Anyone who just watched the Miss. St./Kentucky game got a good look at him. One thing is apparent. He can play defense. He made Monk's life miserable all game long and caused one of Monks rare poor shooting games. Don't know his genuine spec's but he's athletic and he can shoot the ball. He also got to the basket and finished fairly well. Best player on the Miss St. team in my opinion. Definitely someone to keep your eye on going forward. One of those guys that could end up being a steal in the 2nd round.
    206Fan likes this.
  24. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    His name first came up to me when I was watching the Baldwin-Newman matchup last year. None of those guys impressed, but Weatherspoon really stood out. Was watching the UK-MSU game, and I saw him doing a great job on Monk.. looked up his stats, and saw: 17pts 4rebs 2asts 2stl on 49/45/78.

    Ended up watching MSU vs. Boise St, and he did a great job that game too.

    I really hope his name starts to pick up when the draft comes closer. He's a really good player, and is a round 1 talent. He's also playing a wrist injury. Apparently it's a few ligaments in his non-shooting hand that will require surgery after the season. Initially, they decided he would the surgery now(4 games into the season), but he'll do it after the season. I think this will hurt his stock because he probably won't be able to participate in the combine. On the other side, he has had an amazing season. If he's playing this good with that injury, I wonder how good he is without it?
  25. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Actually it might help his stock. He had the option of having surgery or playing through the pain, and he opted to play with the pain. That has a tendency to impress scouts and GM's. By the time the combine rolls around the scouts and GM's already know what he can do. All the combine does is confirm some of the physical attributes of the players. Not being able to compete in some three on three's isn't going to affect his draft stock a bit.
  26. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Justin Patton
    I hate to keep beating this horse, but I've watched this kid play about 6 or 7 times now, and he's going to be a very good player. His potential is high, and if he continues to work hard, he'll achieve it. I've included a couple of videos for those that haven't had a chance to see him play.




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  27. Bibby10AZ

    Bibby10AZ Member

    Trier will be back today against UCLA. Should be a great game
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Already set to record. Now if I can get the weather to cooperate and stop screwing up my satellite signal.
    Bibby10AZ likes this.
  29. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Marcus Keene scores 50 points and also leads Division I basketball in scoring...never heard of this dude before
    206Fan likes this.
  30. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Keene is really underrated. I know it's dumb to compare short players to other short players, but he truly reminds me of a non-as-athletic Isaiah Thomas out of Washington. He's at least, a 2nd rounder. Great 3pt shooter. Knows how to create his own shots. Has the handles and quickness to get all the way to the rim. Does an amazing job at getting to the line. Only true negative is his defense and lack of size. He's not a great playmaker, but I don't know that you have to be one in 2017...

    I could see why draft sites would over-look him. They might see him as an extremely undersized PG with a green light at a small school, who thinks he can get away with not playing defense.

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