Players to watch: 2016/17 college season.

Discussion in 'Prospects' started by bajaden, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I'm a results guy, and right now, Monk is getting results, and I would put his skill level up against Bradley's at the same point in time. Now I grant you that Monk can't go to a school and increase his wingspan. It is what it is, but he's a very, good defender right now. I think his defense gets overlooked because he's such a good offensive player. Would I love it if he had a seven foot wingspan? Of course, but I look at players for what they have and how their using it, not what they don't have. There are a lot of 6'5" guards with nice wingspans that failed in the NBA. Monk doesn't look like a player that will fail. You can nic pic any player to death to the point where you talk yourself out of him. Right now, Monk is an impact player on a top college team playing against other top players. Lets see where he is a couple of months from now.

    If you don't think that Fox's athleticism isn't in the same ballpark with Wall's when he was at Kentucky, then your in disagreement with me, and just about every scout in the NBA. It's not even worth discussing. Also, how can you in the same breath praise Marcus Smarts skill level, and then criticize Fox's three point shot. Smart can't shoot a pea into the ocean consistently. Fox can at least hit the three point shot, and he's smart enough to know he's not good off the dribble with it, so he doesn't take it. Smart just kept launching three after three despite shooting around 25% or less for his career. By the way, Fox is a terrific defender as well.
  2. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I was comparing Smart to Monk because both were considered undersized SGs for the NBA. Yes, I nitpicked the "midget" SGs because I thought it would only be fair for Monk. We haven't seen a lot of short SGs enter the NBA in the last few years, let alone successful defensive ones except Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley. The thing that worried me about Fox is his lack of size for defense. When you compare him to the short SGs that have recently entered the league, both Smart and Bradley were considered elite defensive stoppers out of college. They made up their lack of height with their wingspan, something that Monk can't. So it gets interesting when you try to figure out how Monk will project as a defensive SG.
    Not trying to talk myself out of Monk, but just worried about his lack of size for the SG position in general. Especially when you're talking about spending something like a top 5 pick on him. You can always teach things like shooting, schemes, etc, but you can't teach height and wingspan. 6'3 with a 6'3.5 wingspan raises a lot of questions.

    I was talking about Smart's skill level in terms of defense. I wasn't comparing Smart to Fox. Arguing about who's better athletic between him and Wall are moot-point. Both are good athletes, but I just happen to think John Wall is still the most athletic PG we've seen since 2010. In terms of Fox's shooting, he's only been 2-15 so far. Wall finished his college season at 32.5%. I think Fox is extremely young, and he has lots of time to improve on his 3pt shot through the years. He's already a good FT shooter.

    Fox is a really good PG prospect. I think if he were in last year's draft class, he'd be the #1 PG drafted. This is a really rich draft class for PGs in general. This is the draft class that the Kings should definitely be tuning in on. We need a franchise PG, and there's 4 of them just sitting there in this draft. I really don't think we can afford to have a 35W season and end up picking at 9....just slightly missing out on elite prospects..again. Certainly seems like we're heading that way though.
  3. Joshoua

    Joshoua New Member

    Well if we pick 9 doesn't that mean we'd have to trade dmc in fear of loosing him?! Meaning we'd pick up a top 5 pick from Boston, Miami, Dallas or Phoenix.

    Also at 9 we'd still be able to get Fox.
  4. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Look, we don't disagree on that much, but one thing I would correct you on is that Smart played PG in college, and was drafted as a PG. The last position I would have drafted him for is SG, because he can't shoot a lick. And I really wouldn't have that much of a problem with that, except he doesn't seem to know it. Just the other night he went 2 for 8 from the three. That's a typical night for him. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want a player that's shooting 25% for his career taking 8 three's a game.

    Now so far, Fox hasn't proven to be any better at the three than Smart, but at least he seems to know it, and to be honest, he has better form on his shot than Smart does. There's no doubt that Wall was a better three point shooter at Kentucky than Fox is, but even Wall was only a 32% shooter there, and it wasn't until the last two years that Wall became a credible three point shooter in the NBA averaging around 36%. Still not great, but good enough that you have to guard him. And with his quickness, that's all he needs.

    Now you also said that the thing that worried you about Fox, was his lack of size defensively, and you had that following a sentence about undersized SG's mentioning Bradley and Smart. I think you meant Monk instead of Fox, because of course Fox is a PG, and at 6'3" certainly isn't undersized for that position. Monk at 6'3.5" is a little undersized for the SG position. But then so is C. J. McCullom and Bradley Beal. Not saying it's ideal, just that I think people tend to make more out of it than necessary. At the end of the day, it's all about effort, instincts, and ability. I like to go back to Aaron Craft as an example. Only 6'1", an average athlete with short arms, and he was one of the best defensive PG's I've ever seen. Unfortunately the rest of his game didn't match up. It's all about results.
  5. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I have no idea where the draft boards have Fox right now, but my advice is to pay little attention to them. Trust me, all that will change significantly by the time the draft rolls around, and it's possible that Fox will be a top five pick by then. Of course that means someone will move down in the pecking order as well. I can't tell you how many players I fell in love with that were originally projected as being picked in the 20's that by draft time ended up being picked top 5 or 6. Look where Marquez Chriss started last year and where he ended up being picked. Coming out of highschool Chriss was an afterthought to most schools and I believe he was ranked somewhere around 56th or 57th.

    Right now, this draft appears to be a very good and deep one, especially deep at the top. By that I mean, the quality of the players goes deep before falling off to those perceived to be future rotational players. So, if the proper homework is done, we should be able to get a very good player at 9. Very possibly, it could be our future PG. I can almost guarantee you that Fultz and Ball will go in the top five. That still leaves Fox, Smith, and Evans as possibilities, and every team isn't going to be looking for a PG. There are some very good players in this draft, some of which will be stars in the league, and if one is staring us in the face, then you take him regardless of position. All you need is a crystal ball....o_O
  6. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    what are your thoughts on Khadeen Carrington out of Seton Hall?
  7. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Yes, completely mixed up the 2 names. I meant Monk, not Fox about the defensive concerns. I think Fox has good size overall size for a PG.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
  8. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    (BASED ON 3 GAMES THIS SEASON)
    Obi Enechionyia from Temple.
    Junior
    PF/SF 6'10 220lbs. Lacks good athleticism for a SF, but also lacks strength for a PF (average athlete). On offense, he can play inside the paint. He has decent touch at the rim. He can also play out in the perimeter. He's a very good mid range and 3pt shooter. He takes a lot of 3pters, and most of his jumpshots come from spot-ups. He also does a good job on offensive rebounds. He's a high IQ player, and does a good job as an off-ball player. The only thing I think he needs to work on more is his screen setting. He gets a little sloppy and impatient.
    On defense, his average tools make him a little limited, but he has the smarts and length to defend out in the perimeter. Despite his average athletcism, he's been a good shotblocker. His timing is good. As a defensive rebounder, he's just ok. Does a decent job boxing out. Needs to strengthen up if he wants to defend PFs. NBA COMP: I think he can become a very solid role player for the NBA. High IQ player who can shoot from 3pt, and understands his role. He reminds me a little bit of Tim Thomas.
    Stats from this year:
    36mins: 21pts 8.4rebs 0.9asts 2.7blks 1.3tos
    • 51.4% FG (15.6 FGA)
    • 54.5% 3pt (6.3 3PA)
    • 68% FT (2.3 FTA)
    If I'm talking about Temple, I should also add his teammate.

    Quinton Rose, TEMPLE
    Freshman
    PG/SG 6'8 185lbs.
    Extremely extremely raw, but is extremely talented with amazing physical tools. He's a sleeper in this class, so I don't think he'll declare for the NBA this year. He played PG coming out of highschool, and comes off the bench for Temple. He plays both positions for Temple. He excels with the ball in his hands, and is a great athlete. He does a good overall job scoring in a variety of ways: from the perimeter, attacking, drawing fouls, etc. Promising skillsets: Can stop on a dime, get to the basket at ease, handle the ball, is an above average finisher, is a decent shooter, and pass the ball. Negatives: inconsistent shooter, plays too erratic/too fast sometimes, and turnover prone. Imo, I think he projects as a PG at the next level. If he's a legit 6'8, there's no reason why any teams should be looking over him. Lots of raw talent, hence the reason why I think he stays in college for a few more years...unless his name starts to pick up.

    27mins: 13pts 4.3rebs 2.1asts 2.9tos 1.1blks 0.7stls
    • 51.7% FG (8.3)
    • 36.8% 3pt (2.7)
    • 80% FT (4.3)
    Has anyone watched more of of Rose? He's such an intriguing player. I don't think he's anywhere ready for the NBA yet, but it's hard to deny a guy with those types of tools. If anyone wants to watch a game of Rose, I'd suggest Temple vs. FSU which is on Youtube..... in that game, I feel like he shows his entire arsenal of both good and bad.
    Some clips of Rose #13:
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8636745 (layup)
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8636749 (layup)
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8636753 (pull up mid range, yes he made it, edit error)
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8636756 (3pt)
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8636763 (driving layup, tough finish)
    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8636774 (driving layup, tough finish)
  9. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well I would start with a question. Can he continue to shoot the ball from the three as well as he has so far this season. I'm not sure what he is, a PG or a SG, and if it's a SG, he's a little undersized for the position and he has never shot the ball very well from the three, until this year. So is he for real this year, or is he an aberration. Only time will tell, and to be fair, he's shooting over 50% from the three, so I won't hold him to that standard. To be honest, I haven't seen Seton Hall play yet this year. Like it or not, I'm a victim of the networks and I can't watch what they don't televise. He's a junior, so we have some history to go on.

    He's a southpaw, and he'll remind you of I. Thomas with his tendency to go left when he attacks the basket. He has good handles and a nice crossover stepback that he uses to get open. In short, up until this year, his most effective offense was his midrange shot and attacking the basket. If I were to guess about his draft prospects, my guess is that he would be a 2nd round pick at best, and possibly go undrafted. Of course if he continues to tear it up all that will change. It's also likely that he'll be a four year player.
  10. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    For those interested, the biggest match up of the year is tomorrow morning at 9:30 am on CBS. Kentucky against UCLA. Should be something to watch, Ball up against Fox, and Kentucky's great defense...
  11. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Surprising that a match up of that magnitude wouldn't be slated more for a prime time game for Saturday night or afternoon rather than early morning.
  12. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    Kentucky is trying to mess with UCLA's circadian clocks after losing the matchup last year (to a team that ultimately missed the tournament). That's the way I see it.
  13. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the heads up Baja! I'm slowly getting acclimated to this season and that's a matchup I don't want to miss. Do you have any big suprises so far this season? It looks like Fultz and Ball are off to the quickest starts out of the Freshman class but everybody has been playing well. I'm probably jinxing it, but my Trojans are actually looking pretty good so far. This De'Anthony Melton kid is fun to watch! SC is generally pretty far off the radar in basketball, but check them out when you get the chance.
  14. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    ouch. Rough offensive game for Lonzo Ball.
  15. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Nice game for UCLA winning at Kentucky. A lot of nervous moments for the young team, but the talent is undeniable. Incredible offensive firepower for such a young team at the beginning of the season.
  16. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    I don't know if it was a "rough" game in the sense that he played poorly. He ended up with 14-7-6 going against basically the toughest defense in the country. Sure, there were 6 TOs for Ball (I think at least one was bogus - the loose ball that he desperately tried to save from going into the backcourt looked like a clear kicked ball to me) but aside from a shaky start where the level of competition was obviously better than he's ever seen, he was solid all game.

    I think the one thing we should learn from the last two years is that Kentucky should never schedule a game against UCLA on December 3rd, especially if they plan on being ranked #1 at the time.
  17. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, UCLA has been leading college in scoring, so the question was, how would they perform against arguably the best defense in college this year. I wouldn't judge Ball to harshly for his turnovers. Kentucky causes more turnovers than any other college team. A win is a win, and it's a good loss in some respects for Kentucky. They have been just blowing out teams, so it's always good to get a wake up call.
  18. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Of course both you and I know that neither team knows how good the other team is going to be when these games are schedules. These games are money makers for both schools. But UCLA seems to have Kentucky's number of late. Tough being ranked number one.
  19. lwc

    lwc Well-Known Member

    Does that stat line include the 6-7 turnovers?
  20. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    No, but if you read ONE SENTENCE further...

    lwc likes this.
  21. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    anybody worth watching on Gonzaga? I don't know any players that are projected to be in the top 20 from Gonzaga come June.
  22. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Eh, honestly, no. Nigel Williams-Goss might be a 2nd round player? Gonzaga not worth watching in general if you're looking for NBA prospects.

    However, should add.. Markelle Fultz vs. Gonzaga is coming up. It'll be his 2nd real test. The first one was vs. TCU where he 21pts 6asts 14rebs 2tls 6tos
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  23. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Regardless of whether or not anyone on the Gonzaga team is top 20 draftable, they are a very very good team, and Washington will have its hands full trying to beat them. I think Karnowski could have scored 50 points today if they had kept going to him.
  24. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    One final thought on the UCLA/Kentucky game. I think anyone that watched that game had to admit that it was one entertaining game. The speed that both teams played at, especially Kentucky made the game a lot of fun to watch, not to mention the talent level on both teams. I went back and rewatched parts of the game to focus on certain players, and it struck me that I was enjoying the game more than I have most of the Kings games this season.

    I could live with either Ball or Fox as the Kings PG of the future. Both players are unselfish, and while both have very good court vision, they both have their way of getting the job done. No right or wrong there, just different. Both are fun to watch.. I've also been very impressed with Leaf so far. Not flashy, but always around the ball grabbing rebounds and getting putbacks. Capable of hitting the 15 to 18 foot shot. Very smart player.

    Monk had another typical game for him scoring either from the three, or at the basket. Monk is a good defender as well.

    Another player to watch for Kentucky is Gabriel. Good rebounder and shotblocker who can step out and hit the three. Also good man to man defender.

    I think Derek Willis will find himself a spot in the NBA with his ability to hit the three. The NBA seems to be in love with PF's that can shoot from the outside.

    Did anyone notice Bam Adebayo's lateral quickness. He can really move his feet for a 6'10", 255 lb big man.
    biltalent and lwc like this.
  25. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    SF Justin Jackson had a really good shooting night. 7-13 from 3pt land vs. Davidson. 9-19 from the field total. Still really conflicted when it comes down to Jackson. His 3pt shooting is getting better, but he's still widely inconsistent. I'd compare it to a younger Omri Casspi. You know the guy can shoot the 3, but there are nights where he'll flat-out miss everything.
    Jackson still doesn't look all that much bigger from last year. Maybe 5lbs? He seems like he could be a solid NBA role player just based on his high IQ alone. He had lots of untapped potential after H.S, but seems like he was never able to break through. Still a NBA caliber player, but not a potential star some people saw.

    SF Malik Pope is extremely frustrating prospect to watch. He's a 6'10 sharpshooter with a gifted profile, but he doesn't know how to take control of his skills. I know he's coming back from an injury, but he's just not assertive enough imo. The way Jonathan Isaac plays is the way Junior Malik Pope should play. He hasn't improved much since his freshman year..and I'm pretty close to taking him off my NBA prospects board. As some point, you have to start producing, especially against a school like Grand Canyon.

    Lorenzo Romar needs to be fired. He does so little with so much talent.
    Extremely rough game for Markelle Fultz. Was 10-26 from the field, but did end up with 10rebs, but only 1ast. Teammates weren't helping out tonight, and he forced way too many shots. This was another one of those games where Washington went down big within the first 5 mins, and Fultz tried to come from behind and bring Washington back. I think Fultz just needs to let the game come to him. Reminds me of when Ben Simmons was on LSU last year. Constant losing and games where he's just ok, and can't do enough to bring home the W.
  26. lwc

    lwc Well-Known Member

    Bam from UK had a good game against Alec from Valparaiso. Alec is a potential Top 10 pick this year.
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    By Alec, I assume you mean Alec Peters. I certainly don't have him in my top 10 at the moment, and I doubt seriously he'll end up there this season. Maybe in a different year with weaker talent. He's not a bad rebounder, but not much of a shotblocker. Definitely has some upside, but Bam is the better player if we're comparing the two. Bam is still figuring things out, and being fairly effective while doing so.
    lwc likes this.
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    First, I've never been a big Romar fan. His teams always seem to underachieve. Good recruiter and that's about it. The Simmons comparison is a good one. Both talented players with no one to pass to. I've haven't been a Pope fan up to now. Nothing against him, but he does nothing to wow me. He has obvious physical abilities, but has yet to figure out how to put them to use. Tough to use the term sharpshooter on him when he's shooting 17% from the three. If Pope is smart, he'll stay in school. Isaac is far ahead of him. There are times when Pope looks as though he has no feel for the game of basketball.
  29. lwc

    lwc Well-Known Member

    Yes. Alec Peters. I thought that same after watching him. However, there were more scouts at the UK-Valparaiso game than at the UK-UCLA game. It is probably because it is the only big matchup Peters will play this season against future NBA competition.
  30. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well he is the best player on the Valparaiso team. I'd say he has potential as a stretch four in the NBA, and that's the rage right now, thus the scouts. He's not shooting the ball from the three very well so far this season, but he shot it very well his first three years there. So your right, it gave the scouts a chance to see him up against good talent.
    lwc likes this.

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