Players to watch: 2016/17 college season.

Discussion in 'Prospects' started by bajaden, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I'm looking at Monk and Isaac as disappointments. Monk is a 6'3" gunner, which doesn't work out too well in the NBA. Isaac is way too undeveloped in his game. I also think Tatum could have some issues going forward in the NBA because of his rebounding and lack of fluidity.
  2. roasthawg

    roasthawg Well-Known Member

    My take is Ball is a possible transcendent talent... I'd take him #1 and it's not close.

    Jackson has a chance at being great too... He's #2 for me.

    Fultz has all NBA talent but not sure if it'll translate to wins as easily as with the first two picks. I'd take him #3.

    That's it for the no brainers... The other guys are far less exciting.

    Fox is #4 for me, speed and athleticism are pretty elite. He's kinda in a tier of his own for me... Exciting but not a no brainer like the top three. He's the best prospect we have any chance of getting imo.

    From here it unfortunately falls off a cliff for me. I'd take Markkanen #5 but don't see all start potential in any of the guys outside the top four. Hoping Vlade can find some more diamonds in the rough.
  3. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Disagree in Issac I love him he played his heart out even though coaches/teammates did him no favors. He proved he can play in a system where he doesn't have to be featured that's huge, if he was our 2nd pick I think Smith Jr would be our 1 option.
    Also he projects to be a good defender the lefty he'd bring next to Skal/WCS would be an advantage
    Tetsujin likes this.
  4. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Just curious, have you looked around lately at the NBA. The teams that are winning a lot of games are loaded with so called gunners. The Warriors are loaded with gunners. I use that term loosely because I think it's a discredit to a lot of those players, who can also do other things. Monk is a very good passer, and on many nights, he actually leads Kentucky in assists. Monk may not be the best defender on the team, but he certainly puts out the effort, and has elite athleticism which should over time lead to being a good defender. Monk is good at getting to the basket, but needs to get stronger, which will help him finish better. But your right, the dude can score, and he can score in many different ways.

    Isaac is an outstanding defender, and, never mind, I already took the time to explain to you about Issac, and it didn't matter a tinkers damm, so I'm just wasting my breath on someone that's already made up his mind. There are times when I think I'm wasting my time on this forum. I sit and watch sometimes five games a day during the college season. I've seen every single game that Kentucky has played this year, some of them more than once, and yet, someone will show up late to the party, watch a couple of games, and then be an expert. Why should I even waste my time?
  5. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Love Isaac, but not sold on Smith. Funny you should mention defense, because that's my biggest area of concern with Smith. There are times when he didn't seem to care about playing defense. He's an elite athlete, and if we draft him, I hope comes with a renewed sense of purpose. His play seemed to drop off against lesser opponents, and at the end of the year, he pretty much threw in the towel in my opinion.

    I'm not denying his talent, but I question his desire a little. Or maybe a lot. Also, he doesn't have the size or length of the other top PG's in this class. Ntilikina has excellent size and lenght. He's a very good athlete with good handles and a very good outside shot. He does need to get stronger, but I really like this kid.
  6. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    I'm a little concerned about him as well but if he can make it I think he would be an all star and we shouldn't pass that up. He's very good in the pick and roll and wind be perfect with Skal. I'd take him over Fox and the kid from France and with NO pick get Brigdes or Issac.

    I get his weaknesses but I'm still taking him
  7. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Just curious, how many times have you seen these guys play. Especially Fultz? Washington was a really bad team. No one, other than Fultz could make a stinking shot. Opposing teams knew the only player on Washington they had to worry about was Fultz, so they planned their defense against him. Didn't matter! Fultz could have scored 30 pts a game if he had wanted to. He was a man among'st boys. Instead he tried his best to set up teammates. Get them open shots. If Fultz had a T.J. Leaf on his team, it would have been a different story. Hell, even a Bryce Alford would have helped. I think Fultz is the best player in this draft.
  8. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    Not everybody is always going to agree on every prospect, but I think it's far from wasting your time to give us your opinion. It's pretty clear you do more thorough evaluations than probably anybody else here; how much weight people give them is up to each individual.

    Besides, sometimes you are wrong. I'm pretty sure you told me once that Jimmer Fredette was the best PG out of the 2011 draft and that Kyrie was going to bust out of the league in a year tops. You did say that and I'm not just making it up, right? ;)
    Tetsujin and Kingster like this.
  9. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    :rolleyes::eek: Maybe if I was drunk at the time I might have said that. Hey, quit picking on an old guy that can't remember when he went to the bathroom last. Didn't think Jimmer was going to be that bad though... My biggest mistake was thinking that Jeff Green was going to be a better player than Kevin Durant. I was right about Donte Greene though....
  10. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Maybe I should have said: a gunner who is 6'3". The key term - 6'3". I guess "gunner" is a pejorative. So how about a 6'3" shooter? I don't really value very much smaller guards who don't have the ball handling skills to be point guards. And nobody is asking you to waste your time. Actually, I don't recall that you did spend a long time explaining to me about Isaac. Maybe I missed that post. I did get the Tetsujin post; not yours. We just disagree on Isaac. It's not the first time we've disagreed on a player. I see him as someone who at best will take a long time to make an impact on the NBA game.
  11. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    With that logic, it's almost like saying no one should be able to disagree with you since you watch more games than anyone else here. If someone doesn't agree, then that's their choice. I know myself and probably many others here enjoy reading your take on the college players so you aren't wasting your time here just because the one responding to you is in disagreement. There's a lot more who appreciate the information even though they aren't replying to the thread.
  12. roasthawg

    roasthawg Well-Known Member

    On the topic of how many games you need to watch to have a valid opinion on a player... Kings fans saw DeMarcus play in hundreds of games and there were huge variances in opinion of him as a player. A bit of an apples to oranges comparison there but still makes the point I think.

    As for college guys for some of the elite prospects it really doesn't take much game footage at all to get an idea of what they're about if you know what you're looking for. A game or two is normally enough to form an opinion at least.
  13. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Been watching some more Monk and man, the kid is absolutely dynamite. What do you guys think about transitioning him to PG? He'd have incredible size and length for the position defensively and I think he could step into the NBA right away and be an excellent scorer. I'd put his ability to create his own shot and score with anyone in this draft, and that's something we desperately need.

    The Ball-handling is more than fine, but the big question for me is how he would be able to create for others. Because Fox is such a good floor general, we haven't really gotten to see Monk in that lead-creator role.

    I'm starting to get really intrigued, about grabbing Fox and Monk and keeping them together. The more I watch Kentucky play, the more impressed I am with how they compliment each other's game. If we believe Monk can be a "McCollum" type too with his ability to move over to PG, there's still plenty of minutes for Buddy to run the 2nd unit as well. Tons of firepower potential with Fox/Monk/Buddy in the back-court.

    If we can get all the lucky stars to align and put a serious offer in for Porter, the future all of a sudden is looking pretty amazing:

    Monk || Buddy
    Porter || Bogdan || Malachi
    WCS || Papa
  14. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Keep dreaming about Porter, it just ain't gonna happen. There will be half a dozen teams out there that will offer him a max deal. Extremely small chance of him picking the Kings.

    On Monk, I would have have been all over that pick if Kings kept Boogie. Now that Boogie is in NO, I am not sure. Monk could play some PG in the system where bigs initiate a lot of the offense. Not sure he can be a PG where he is expected to run the team.

    I highly doubt Kings will have a shot at Fox. I think Fox will go in the top 5 and I am not sure that Kings will have a top 5 pick. I would love to see the Kings pick Fox and Tatum but that is an extremely long shot as I suspect both will go top 5. Magic would be all over Tatum and Fox will be 3rd PG taken in the draft. Knicks would be all over him as would Philly.
    King in England and 206Fan like this.
  15. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    In terms of Fox, I really can't see who would draft him in the top 5. The top 5 teams are 80% guaranteed to be Celts, Lakers, Suns, Magic, and Sixers.
    Celts: no interest
    Lakers: no interest(Ball)

    Suns: some interest. Fox could be drafted here to pair with Booker, while they trade Bledsoe. Would he really be the best option at #3 with Josh Jackson available?
    Orlando: no interest(no chance in hell they gamble on another non-shooting PG)
    Philly: probably no interest(Fox wouldn't fit Simmons due to his non-shooting, and Fox is more of a ball dom pg)

    If the Kings want Fox, I think that there's a good chance he's available when we pick. I don't see any top 5 teams scrambling to draft him. I think Fox will be the 4th or 5th PG taken. I just don't see how he beats out DSJ right now. His complete non 3pt shooting should scare people a lot more.
    biltalent likes this.
  16. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Why do you think Fox will go in the top 5? The top 3 are already pretty secure (Fultz, Ball, Jackson) and Tatum is likely to play himself into the top 5 too. I do think DSJ is higher on most teams boards anyway and then you still have really high upside prospects like Markkanen, Isaac and Monk who a team can fall in love with and are the type of prospects top 5 teams take all the time. Pretty sure we'll have our chance to take Fox.

    Also, what do you think limits Monk without a big like Boogie? The guy is pretty amazing at creating off the bounce and getting his shot up.
  17. roasthawg

    roasthawg Well-Known Member

    You didn't ask me but I think Fox is most likely to go at #4. Seems like a player in the mold of John Wall, tall, athletic, and fast. His athleticism is very apparent in the tourney similar to Wade and Westbrook who both shot up boards as well.
    Čarolija likes this.
  18. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Member

    Fox is actually perfect for Philly. He's an elite defender who can handle and push tempo when need be, but does not need the ball to make an impact. Also, while his %'s are lower than desired, he has no issues with shot form. It'll come with repitition over time. Bottom line, he only needs to maintain his current trajectory in order to be a highly effective player for Philly, and a potential All-Star in their system.
    roasthawg and Čarolija like this.
  19. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    As you said, the top 3 seems to be pretty set with the order only thing in question (i.e. who goes at 2 and 3). The other teams at 4 and 5 are at this stage Magic and Philadelphia. Magic will pick Tatum as he just seems to fit there like a glove. They lack a quality SF and a scorer. Tatum fits there nicely between Gordon and Fournier.

    Philly needs a PG and Fox seems to be the one that fits them better than Smith Jr, plus in the long run Fox might just be the better prospect, especially if his late shooting form is not a patch but start of the improvement in that jump shot.

    Knicks are also sucking lately and might just sneak up the draft board. If the order stays the same after the lottery as it currently stands, I can't see Fox lasting until pick 6. He could very well end up being the best PG from this draft in the long run.
  20. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    I don't see the fit in Philly. Fox is a guy you want running the team and distributing; they already have 3 of those guys (Simmons, Embiid, Saric) who they want running the show. They need shooting to surround those 3, not a sketchy shooter (although I think he'll be fine) who's best attributes is playmaking and getting to the rim (I.e, needing the ball)
  21. andjel

    andjel Well-Known Member

    Do not forget Knicks who are putting professional tank job already. Not easy to lose 2 against the Nets in a week or so.
    I would say that it is 50-50 chance they will end lower than either Philly or Magic.

    Do not know what would they want from the draft though.
  22. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    Jeff Hornacek recently said they are going full triangle next season. Whichever PG fits that mold best is likely who Knicks take.
  23. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Member

    Wouldn't that be Ntilikina?
  24. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    What are thoughts on Malik Monk? He looks a lot like Jamal Crawford to me in terms of getting his shot off and handling the ball (really good at both) but he seems to be a little more willing passer? Can he be a PG? If not he is undersized. He sure can score.
  25. roasthawg

    roasthawg Well-Known Member

    In my opinion you're looking at a guy in Fox who will be far and away BPA at #4... So if a team doesn't want him there I'll be expecting a trade.
  26. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Philly needs shooters which is why I don't see Fox as a good fit.

    If the Sixers land two picks outside the top 3 I could see them taking Smith Jr and Monk.
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Sorry, late to answer this, but after spending a couple of days watching precorded games of Arizona, the answer is no. I doubt Markkanen can guard NBA PF's right now, much less SF's .
  28. Hoovtrain

    Hoovtrain Well-Known Member

    I want Fox badly. But after last night he may have played himsel into top 3-4
  29. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    A year ago, I wasn't a fan of Justin Jackson. He bombed his freshmen year, and from that moment on, I had a bad taste in my mouth when I watched him play. But this year, and additionally, in the tournament, he has made a believer of me, and in my opinion, has re-entered the draft picture. Especially after I watched him chase Monk all over the court, and was able to keep up with him. No small feat! He showed me that not only could he guard SF's, he could guard SG's as well,a nd it's not often that you can find a 6'8" player capable of that.

    He came into this season about 15 or so pounds of muscle heavier, and as a result, he's played a more physical game. One of my knocks on him was that I thought he played soft at times. But not this year. He also improved his 3 pt. shot. After shooting around 30% from the three his first two years, this year he's shooting a very respectable 38%, while taking more shots overall from the three.

    He''s always been able to attack the basket, so the addition of the three point shot to his game moves him up a level. Lastly, he has a terrific motor. He never stops moving on offense or defense. My first choice is still Isaac and my second is Tatum, but if both those players are gone, I think Jackson would be a very good fit on the team. He's exactly what I would be looking for. He play's both ends of the court.
  30. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Not sure what's been up with some of the 5star Duke disappointments lately.

    Derryck Thornton, Chase Jeter, and now Marques Bolden.

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