Players to watch: 2016/17 college season.

Discussion in 'Prospects' started by bajaden, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Member

    Can Markkanen play as a SF? I tend to think he can. Obviously, he's not going to really guard anybody at that position, but he at least has the athleticism and length to be somewhat productive on defense. I am coming around to Markkanen, and would probably rate him above Isaac at this point. If Markkanen becomes the straw that stirs the drink, you retool the roster around his shortcomings, but I think the toung talent is pretty well distributed already.
  2. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    Jayson Tatum seems to playing his way out of the Kings reach. If he continues his current play through the tournament I think we'll have to look elsewhere.
  3. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I don't think he can. As you said, he'll have trouble guarding SFs. When you look at offense, he won't be able to go and attack against SFs. They're too quick for him. He can post up, but he still doesn't know how to use his size to his advantage yet.

    He can't play SF. Not quick enough for that position on either side of the floor.
  4. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    I like Isaacs upside better anyways, but I would be happy with either. To me Tatum will be a better version of Rudy Gay and Isaac could be a top 10 NBA player if it all comes together but still a elite defender and long term starter if it doesnt. The game comes easy to him, is the thing that stands out and even though he is skinny he doesnt play like a skinny guy, gets in the paint and mixes it up. I think he is only scratching the surface of what he can be while Tatum has kind of showed you all his cards, which is still damn good. I just think with potentially two top 10 picks and no clear star on the team we can afford to swing for the fences on Isaacs upside.
    Joshoua and Suicide King like this.
  5. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    Noooo. Its a stretch to even consider him a PF at this point. He isnt as mobile as someone like Porzingis. I think ideally you start him as a 4 and transition him to 5 as his body matures.
  6. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    He looks like a SF. Pretty good for a 7 footer.
  7. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    Oh now wait a minute. Turn a dead eye three pt shooter into a five? I'd rather pass on him.
    Čarolija likes this.
  8. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    Well to think you can make him a SF in todays game is a little crazy. To me he reminds me of Ryan Anderson in a Porzingis like body. He will be a weapon because nobody can really effectively challenge a man that tall out there and he has a pure stroke. Its just the rest of his game is the question mark.
  9. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    I would have no problem with Isaac. His upside is pretty ridiculous. I especially love Isaac if we draft one of the ball dominant guards like Smith or Monk or someone like that. I'm getting warmer on Isaac too. As I watch it just seems like he does so many things well and he's always in the right position. I just like Tatum because he has go-to guy potential that I think the Kings lack but I'm not sure he's going to be a better all around player than Isaac. This draft is going to be really important for the future of the franchise and I think Tatum has a higher floor.
  10. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    I think he is a very good stretch 4 as it is. Certainly he will have trouble on defense with SFs but the guy can hit 3's from all around the arc. He may have problems but he creates problems also. I am hoping we don't have to consider him as there are apparently several SFs available. I am not paying enough attention to get into details of a college player's game especially when he will play in the NBA. I'll let the REAL experts tell me what is right.
  11. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    No problem, Get on the bus and I'll pick you up the same day. Or, take the train, like Uncia03. Make it easier on me.
  12. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Could be. It all depends on where we end up picking, and what the needs are of the teams in front of us. One thing I'm sure of, we should get at least one player with star material, maybe two. I'm also not opposed to cashing in both our picks for the top pick in the draft. It is my firm belief that Fultz is going to be a star in the league, and maybe a superstar. The game is effortless to him.

    Remember, the Kings will have five young players on their team already if Bogdanovic comes over. You add at least two more, maybe three with the 2nd round pick, and that would make eight young and basically inexperienced players on the team. That's a lot of youth. I'm not opposed to it, but it will take some time for that youth to produce winning. We also have our 1st round pick the following year, so we would be adding even more youth. So moving up to grab a player like Fultz isn't as bad an idea as one might think. I'd even consider sweetening the pot with one of our SG's. We have to do something in that area, so why not in a trade.

    Fultz is quite capable of playing the SG position as well as the PG position. He's very good at playing off the ball, which in my opinion, he does too much of at Washington. Point being, that if you resign Collison, you could put Collison and Fultz on the floor together.
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  13. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think we need to remember that Isaac isn't a featured player in the offense at Florida St., where Tatum is. So Tatum is more likely to put up better offensive stats than Isaac. I like both players and would be happy with either. I think overall Tatum is the better offensive player, and Isaac is the better defensive player, but both players are capable at both ends of the court.
    funkykingston likes this.
  14. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    It's not as much about stats to me as it is about what I see. Now it's definitely true that I see Tatum more with the ball in his hands so he looks more like a go-to guy because of his role on his team. It's entirely possible that Isaac would look better as a go-to scorer if he was given more opportunity, I just can't say that for sure. I love both guys but I love Tatum's fit with the Kings a little better. To be fair everything can change depending on our draft position and what kind of other off-season personnel changes we see. Both guys are really talented.
  15. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Well, he does have the footwork to come around a pick and hit a shot. So in that respect he does have mobility. I think he's a better shooter than Porzingis and Porzingas is a better interior defender (he can just stand there in the paint and raise his arms to bother opponents' shooting), at least currently.
  16. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Ya I like Issac over Tatum as well he fits into a system and if we want we can play him at PF
  17. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Hey Baja, have you seen a lot of Devin Robinson?

    He had a bad game vs Kentucky but he looks to have good tools for a SF and a nice stroke from outside. I wonder if he'd be a good 2nd round pickup.
  18. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think down the road Isaac could play some PF. But right now he weighs about 110 pounds, so he has some muscle to add. Of course I exaggerate, but he is on the slender side. I like him at SF because of his size advantage at that position, and he has the athleticism, and ballhandling ability to play that position. I think we get too locked in with position terminology. Just stick him where he matches up the best. Doesn't matter what you call him.
  19. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think he would be someone to consider in the 2nd round, depending on who else is there at the time. You take the best player available for sure in the 2nd round, regardless of position. That said, yeah, I've seen him play quite a bit over the last three years. He's really improved his 3pt shot since his freshman year. I think he shot somewhere around 25% as a freshman and is shooting around 38% this year. However, he has proved to be a real hot and cold shooter. In one game he'll go 4 or 5 from deep, and in the next. go 0 for 5. So from game to game, your not really sure what your going to get.

    I saw both his games against Kentucky this season, and he was great in one, and terrible in the other. He certainly has good size for the position, and a big wingspan. He's a very good athlete as well. Defensively he's shown quite a bit of potential, but at times, like a lot of college players, it seems like his mind is somewhere else. It's not unusual to see the man he's guarding slip away for a back door. His ball handling needs some work, and he turns the ball over more than I would like for the minutes played.

    In short, yeah, he's a prototypical 2nd round pick. You draft him and stick him in D-League and hope he develops. If I'm the Kings, unless there's a player sitting there that I'm in love with, and I think isn't far away from contributing in the NBA, I draft a European player to stash in Europe for a year or two. Simply because of the lack of roster spots the Kings will have. Now of course all that can change by the time those decisions are necessary.
  20. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    You've seen him a lot more than I am but it looks like we're seeing about the same things.

    That said, I'm still hoping Juwan Evans or Caleb Swanigan falls to the Kings in the 2nd.
  21. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member


    This is severely limiting to what he actually is as an offensive player. He's not just a stretch 4 who camps at the 3pt line waiting to bomb. His stroke is amazing, yes, but he also has an off the dribble game and can get to anywhere he wants on the floor. Has done an excellent job at getting to the FT line. For some scale reference, Anthony Davis as a .437 FT rate and Markkanen is at .424. Pretty good no?

    He's been insanely effective with a 63% TS with 22.8% USG. Want to know how hard that is to do? Here's the current list of NBA players with at least a 60% TS and 22.8% USG rate:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&year_min=2017&year_max=2017&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force:pos_is=1&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=60&c2stat=usg_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=22.8&c6mult=1.0&order_by=ws


    He's been remarkably good in the Pick n Pop scenarios and even has run a lot of sets as the PnR ball-handler. His post-game started to develop towards the end of the year too and he became really effective at it.

    His rebounding was actually really good for a stretch 4 at 13.9% TRB. Basically the same as Porzingis in his rookie year and better than him this season. The defense does need work, but he has excellent lateral quickness and I see plenty of room for growth as he continues to develop. Name a 19 year old big man who's been "NBA ready" on the defensive end?

    I know we need to take college stats with a grain of salt, but these aren't numbers to discount for a 7'0 19 year old with his shooting ability. His offensive game is already pretty advanced and there's plenty of room for growth as he continues to mature. He just has offensive star upside to me, which we desperately lack as a franchise. He's already a good rebounder for a stretch 4 and I don't see anything in his defensive game that leads me to believe he won't be at least average on that end.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  22. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Probably more likely for Evans to be there, but you never know. Both players fall into that category of being players that could probably contribute sooner rather than later. I think there would be less adjustment for Swanigan because he just does what he does, but Evans might take a little while to adjust to the size and athleticism at the PG position in the NBA. He's one of those players though that seems to rise to the occasion.
  23. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    With Evans my assumption is that the Kings take a PG in the first round (Smith Jr, Fox, Ntilikina, maybe Ball if they get some real lottery luck) and resign either Lawson or Collison so Evans would start third string and ideally be groomed to be a backup PG or possibly a starter if the first round PG flames out.
    bajaden likes this.
  24. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    Considering where our PG depth is right now, a backup in the second round should have a very good shot at making the team and maybe even getting minutes by the end of the season. I'd be thrilled if we can get Juwon Evans there. He's got everything you want from a PG prospect but he's playing his best ball right at the end of the season when everyone is paying attention. The mocks still have him in the second round but I'd be surprised if he makes it past the first 30 picks. Pop will probably snap him up with that #30 pick if no one else does. Who doesn't want a 20 year old lead guard with terrific handling skills, a solid jumper, defensive potential, and great court vision? I could easily see him having a Darren Collison type of career which would be terrific value anywhere outside of the lottery.
  25. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I have a feeling Evans goes drafted in the late teens-20s. There's no reason why he should be a 2nd round pick right now. I think if he has a good tournament, it'll only enforce that. I could see him becoming a Darren Collison-type player.
  26. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Again, I don't like when we pigeon hole players into one position. Especially when their only 19 years old. I think the minute you see a player seven foot tall, you immediately think Center or PF. You get compared to Nowitski. I'm not saying he wouldn't have trouble guarding some of the SF's in the league, but turnaround is would be fair play at the other end. He's a very talented seven footer who is probably the best player on a very talented Arizona team. In short, I have no problem with the Kings drafting him. However, he's not my first choice, or second choice, or third, etc. etc. etc. Doesn't mean I don't like him.

    Drafting him in last years draft would have made he happy as a clam...
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Wow, Bryant McIntosh had a terrific game today against Vandy. He doesn't get a lot of press, but he's solid PG who could become a backup on a team. Another guy that we might consider in the 2nd round.
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    My guess is that Oklahoma St. doesn't get out of the 1st round. And for them to get out of the first round, Evans is going to have to step up. Evans isn't quite the athlete that Collison is. But then most aren't. I doubt he'll be drafted in the teens, but I could see a team at the bottom of the 1st round taking a flyer on him. I have him going bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd.

    I might add, that Evans started off the year playing like an all star, and then Oklahoma hit a stretch in the middle of the season where they lost something like 6 or 7 in a row, and Evans didn't play very well during that stretch. That's exactly when he started dropping in polls. In general, he tended to struggle against better teams, which also didn't help. Of course he finished the season strong, and apparently he likes playing against Iowa St.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  29. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    If the Sixers get a top two pick they have to take Fultz or Ball.

    But if they ended up with two picks in the 4-7 range (because the Lakers don't get a top three pick) then Monk and Markannen would make a ton of sense. Simmons is effectively the PG, so Monk can line up at the PG spot and guard guys his size while playing a SG game on offense and both he and Markannen spread the floor for Simmons and Embiid. If they can keep BS and JE healthy that could be a very effective squad.
  30. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Not sure they take Markkanen since they have Saric. Saric is the type of player a team would hope Markkanen could become, so I don't think they add another stretch 4. Markkanen is the better shooter, but Saric is more a talented and versatile offensive player. Since the month of Feb, Saric has been putting up 18pts 7.7rebs 3.4asts 1stl 0.4blk 3tos on 45.6/30.5/74.7

    Monk could be a very good fit for them. Let Simmons develop his PG skills, while letting Monk defend the PGs. Monk could also become a combo guard down the road.

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