Now that we know the draft order, who do we draft? (New thread)

I want Fox with pick 5 but I can't help but feel that someone will pick him before the Kings. Either Phoneix or someone will trade up with Philadelphia and draft him.

I would be devastated!
 
Tatum is just over 6'8 w/shoes, has a 6'10 wingspan, and an 8'10.5 standing reach. That is not small or average. That is big enough to slide over to PF w/o much problem.
If Kings trade up from 10 to 4 with Phoenix, I would want Fox and Tatum.

That would mean that Kings have good young talent at every position and enough scoring punch and some serious defensive potential.

WCS
Skal
Tatum
Hield
Fox

Bogdanović
Richardson
Papagiannis

A fair bit of flexibility there as well!
 
If Kings trade up from 10 to 4 with Phoenix, I would want Fox and Tatum.

That would mean that Kings have good young talent at every position and enough scoring punch and some serious defensive potential.

WCS
Skal
Tatum
Hield
Fox

Bogdanović
Richardson
Papagiannis

A fair bit of flexibility there as well!

hmmm that's a good thought, wonder how much it will take to trade up our #10 for Phoenix's #4 pick. A haul of Fox and Tatum would be nice.
 
If Jackson is there when the Suns are on the clock I think there's a near zero chance of the Kings trading up from 10 to 4.

By if Ball, Fultz & Jackson go 1-3 and Phoenix doesn't love Tatum they might want to trade down. I'm not sure (beyond the 10th pick) what the Kings have that they'd want though.

I think there's a chance that the Suns stand pat and take Isaac.
 
How about Afflalo , Richardson, 10th for Brandon Knight,4th?

kings pick Fox and Tatum

Why Phoenix does it? They get two cheap young Talents plus save 40 Mill on the afflalo/Knight

Don't think the cap space does it by itself, and we still could have Buddy and Bogs at the 2
Still not sure its enough - Maybe Buddy instead of Richardson? Hmmmm

Fox,Knight,Galloway
Buddy, Bogs or Bogs and Richardson
Tatum, Temple,2nd rounder
Skal,Tolliver
WCS,Koufos,Papa
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
I'd like to know why Fultz, the consensus #1 pick in this very strong draft, couldn't make his team good enough to go to the NCAAs. It just seems so incongruous to me. A record of 9-22 with a 13 game losing streak. Great players usually make their team a lot better, right?
Well, you'd have to watch the games. In general, Fultz spent the first half of many games dishing the ball to teammates, who couldn't convert. In the second half, he would put on his scoring hat, and start putting up points because no one else could. Many scouts argued that he should have been more selfish with the ball, and maybe Washington would have won more games. Of course Fultz would have had to score around 50 pts a game for that to happen. He just didn't have much talent around him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
This is what I noticed too - his stamina is excellent.....I would say the way he runs reminds me of Steve Nash - a soccer player converted to basketball - or Jason Kidd. He seems to have boundless energy. I watched clips of Fultz vs Ball recently, and though Fultz was smoother and more controlled player, Ball seemed to look his equal or better.

I watched Jason Kidd in High School at the Championship win against Mater Dei at Arco in 92 - that's the closest player I can compare. Kidd just kept running and running and ran Mater Dei off the floor That kind of running up and down, and tirelessly is why I compare Ball to soccer play. I saw a bit of the anticipation and stealing in clips of Ball. Later in Kidd's career he completely disrupted James, Wade and the Heat in the finals with his defense and although Nowitzki won MVP of the Finals deservedly, I though Kidd was the other man behind the curtain for Dallas. He disrupted James and Wade as well as others on the Heat's offense consistently that stymied the Heat. Kidd could do it all....and why he's third on triple doubles all-time. His game processing is at a different level. I agree that Ball would be outstanding to draft, and may get picked up by the Celtics even.
I think the reason the Celtics may lean harder toward Fultz than Ball, is because Fultz is very good at playing off the ball. They envision playing the two of them together. I think Ball is better with the ball in his hands, which would mean that it wouldn't be in IT's hands. Not saying that they couldn't make it work, but it's not a step back to take Fultz over Ball if you think he's the best fit for your team. Having said that, it wouldn't be a huge shock for them to take Ball. Just a tiny one.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Probably the main reason he's around 10 in the consensus draft is his lack of pt, making it harder to judge his consistency. I agree that he could be very good. In particular, I like his toughness as well as his athletic ability. You're going to see some guys taken around 10 that are going to be better than some in the top 5. Collins could be one of them. It's very nice to have two picks in the top 10 in this deep draft.
I think there are several reasons. One is what you stated. He didn't get the minutes because of playing behind the 7'2" senior, Przemek Karnowski. Because of Collins ability to hit the three point shot, you might ask, well then, why not play them together? Truth is, when there were on the court together, they were very effective with the inside out game and very hard to defend. However, Gonzaga only had two bigs on the team, Karnowski and Collins, and Mark Few didn't want to risk both getting in foul trouble at the same time, so he played it safe using Collins as the backup.

When you look at the amount of minutes Collins played, and the foul trouble he always seemed to be in, I think being in the top ten is a good result. One of the other reasons is because the traditional center has become a dinosaur. Used to be that if your were over 7 feet tall and could blow up a basketball, you were a 1st round pick. No more! If you can't shoot the three, and put the ball on the floor, you don't get a second look. Thing is, Collins can do all those things and that's why he's listed at 10 on most draft boards. I think he's a very talented kid, but he does have some things to work on. Not major things, but they are important.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I like Ball but I think the chances of him signing an extension here are very slim. Fox on the other hand, will be much more likely to stick around. I don't like these prima donnas that come out of college and try to force themselves onto a certain team. You have the opportunity of a lifetime no matter what the team is. Don't act like a spoiled little brat.
Well, to be fair to Ball, it's his dad that's causing the stir. By all accounts Lonzo is reported to be nothing like his dad. So it might not be appropriate to label him a prima donna just yet. What's sad is that his dad is giving everyone a false impression of his son.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I can't see how Phx would take a point guard at 4. They have three decent ones. I could see them trading back.
Well, they seem uninterested in using Knight. Ulis is only 5'9" tall, although one could argue that he was the best PG on the team that could play on a regular basis. And finally, Bledsoe is injured more than he's healthy. So I don't think selecting a PG is out of the question. I certainly hope that they don't.
 
I think the reason the Celtics may lean harder toward Fultz than Ball, is because Fultz is very good at playing off the ball. They envision playing the two of them together. I think Ball is better with the ball in his hands, which would mean that it wouldn't be in IT's hands. Not saying that they couldn't make it work, but it's not a step back to take Fultz over Ball if you think he's the best fit for your team. Having said that, it wouldn't be a huge shock for them to take Ball. Just a tiny one.
The other way of viewing things is that IT and Fultz would both be heavy usage scorers. Ball had a surprisingly low usage rate and might better balance Thomas by being a distributor. He's also got the size to guard SGs. In fact, Ball might be better off guarding SGs.

Honestly, as someone that likes Ball's game I think getting him out of LA and out from under his dad's watchful eye (and loud mouth) would be better for him long term.
 
Boston should trade their vets now (including IT) and stockpile for down the road. As long as LBJ is out there the waters are not safe in the eastern conference.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I can't stand what I perceive as vanity/arrogance/poor-sportsmanship in Sports - mostly why I couldn't stand Bryant. Used to dislike Rick Fox and to a lesser degree O'Neal (when on the Lakers). Green is a little bit much but I think he's just having fun and being fiery. And Durant pulled a Karl Malone, although I think they win this year. Everyone's looking forward to the Finals again as a foregone conclusion. The Celtics are punching above their weight, and the Spurs are too banged up. I still don't mind or am neutral about the Warriors (unless they play the Kings) - I think they're fun to watch.
I liked them better when they beat Dallas as an 8 seed quite a few years ago. When you're picking up Andre Igoudalas as a bench player, you know things are going well. Livingston is also big for them. He made the game winning play for the nail-biter WCF game 1 this year.

For example though with the NFL I still have hated teams (players). It just takes one particular player for me.
Seahawks with Sherman, or Brady on New England. Although the Superbowl with Seahawks and Patriots was a great game, it was horrible watching 2 teams I didn't want to win, highly irritating.

I understand Supersonics fans disappointment. Teams move away and allegiances fade. Some people like organizations for the home team, or once the home team. People themselves move and pick up the home team after they move.....anyway I'm blabbering....
Bandwagon fans are funny folks...Seahawks have a bunch of loyal fans, but the bandwagoners have come out of the woodwork too there. Fairweathers are Fickle and cannot stand watching teams fail to the point where they jump-ship. Or they love watching winning teams and jump from win to win to always "be" with a winner. Loyalty is a pretty big attribute imo. What fun is always cheering Goliath? If all things are neutral I often go underdog.
I literally hated the Lakers. It's hard to hate them now because of how pitiful they look. However, I don't feel sorry for them. The Lakers have some of the most arrogant fans in the world. Too many times when I was a season ticket holder I ended up with a Laker fan sitting near me, who was a loudmouth jerk. Don't feel that way about the Warriors. Probably because I was a Warrior fan before I was a Kings fan. But also, the Warriors have struggled in the league just like the Kings have. Right now, they're on top of the world, just like we were back in the Vlade/Webber days. But their glory days have been few and far between compared to the Lakers. So I can't begrudge them their moment in the sun. I just wish it was us.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I dont think anyone wants to be called a bandwagon fan - its a pejorative term. But I agree with you, one is inviting the comment if buying a Kevin Durant Warriors jersey of all things. Maybe not the savviest purchase. My opinion of Durant lowered a bit with his signing with the Warriors. Like I wrote earlier, I'm fairly neutral on the Warriors. My office-mate is a long-long time fan who grew up in San Fran and went to Berkeley. He likes discussing the Kings more than the Warriors probably because they're in more turmoil and flux than the Warriors.
One thing I would disagree with you on, was the Durant/Malone comparison, if I understood you correctly. Malone was at the end of his career and was obviously trying to hook on with a team he thought could win the whole thing. While I wouldn't have done that if I were him, I understand how he might feel. He came so close so many times with him and Stockton. Durant is a different story. He's at the top of his career, and could end up being the difference maker if they go one and win the whole banana. You couldn't say that about Malone at that point. I believe Mitch Richmond was another one that hooked on to that team as well.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
If Jackson is there when the Suns are on the clock I think there's a near zero chance of the Kings trading up from 10 to 4.

By if Ball, Fultz & Jackson go 1-3 and Phoenix doesn't love Tatum they might want to trade down. I'm not sure (beyond the 10th pick) what the Kings have that they'd want though.

I think there's a chance that the Suns stand pat and take Isaac.
Philly is the team that could totally change directions. . I don't think it's out of the question that they might just draft Monk. They need shooting, and the two best shooters are Monk and Markkanen. they don't need another big man, so Monk is the obvious choice. However he wouldn't seem like a big reach at 5 as he would at 3. So maybe we offer then the 5th pick and Malachi to switch with us. that way they walk away with two SG's that can shoot the ball. Just a thought.

As to what we can offer the Sun's other than the 10th pick. We can offer to take some bad salary off their hands. We can't do it on draft day, but after the draft we can relinquish our rights to Collison, Lawson, McLemore, etc. and just absorb a contract like Knights without having to send anyone back if that's what they want.
 
One thing I would disagree with you on, was the Durant/Malone comparison, if I understood you correctly. Malone was at the end of his career and was obviously trying to hook on with a team he thought could win the whole thing. While I wouldn't have done that if I were him, I understand how he might feel. He came so close so many times with him and Stockton. Durant is a different story. He's at the top of his career, and could end up being the difference maker if they go one and win the whole banana. You couldn't say that about Malone at that point. I believe Mitch Richmond was another one that hooked on to that team as well.
Yeah, different circumstances.

Durant is arguably the 2nd best player in the NBA (at the very least top 5), just entering his prime and he joined up with the team that had just set the NBA record for wins in a season. Not to mention the team that his previous team had on the ropes in the playoffs that postseason. He's free to sign with whatever team he likes but my view of him as a competitor dropped quite a few notches.

Payton and Malone wanted one last go at a ring. Didn't work out that way for them. Kobe was accused of sexual assault, the four of them only played in 20-25 games together and still made the finals only to lose to the Pistons. After that Phil Jackson left and Shaq was traded.

Mitch Richmond signed with LA in 2001 and actually got a ring as part of the 2002 Lakers championship team.
 
Philly is the team that could totally change directions. . I don't think it's out of the question that they might just draft Monk. They need shooting, and the two best shooters are Monk and Markkanen. they don't need another big man, so Monk is the obvious choice. However he wouldn't seem like a big reach at 5 as he would at 3. So maybe we offer then the 5th pick and Malachi to switch with us. that way they walk away with two SG's that can shoot the ball. Just a thought.

As to what we can offer the Sun's other than the 10th pick. We can offer to take some bad salary off their hands. We can't do it on draft day, but after the draft we can relinquish our rights to Collison, Lawson, McLemore, etc. and just absorb a contract like Knights without having to send anyone back if that's what they want.
That was my thought with the Sixers - send Malachi and #5 to sew up Monk and clear a bit of the logjam at SG. The Sixers do have Luwawu and theoretically Korkmaz in the pipeline so I don't know how interested they'd be but it's a solid offer to move up two slots, especially if Monk is their target. Two things jump out at me though. (1) they may well get better offers from a team looking to move up for Jackson, assuming Philly doesn't just take him themselves. It would depend on them really wanting Monk and not wanting to fall back too far and miss him as well as the Suns not making a more aggressive move and (2) I've always been of the feeling that if you love a guy at #3 that is projected to go #5 or #6 that unless you can make a trade and guarantee that your guy will still be there, you just draft him at 3. Who cares if writers covering the NBA think you reached? If that's your guy you go after him.

As for Phoenix, I don't see them wanting to dump salary enough to drop from #4 to #10 unless there's a couple guys they love that are projected to be in that range. I think it's much more likely that they package one of their later picks (20 or 26 I think) with a bad salary for an ending contract or player with a team option.

Leonard and #20 or #26 for Afflalo? Not an awful deal
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
For those nterested, the Kings are holding their second workout monday. The players invited are:

Corey Sanders: combo guard, 6'2", 181 lbs, 12.8 ppg, 382% fgp, 26.6% 3pp, 3.2 assists per game.
James Artis: SG/SF, 6'7", 215 lbs, 18.2 ppg, 47.5% fgp, 39.2% 3pp, 4.9 rpg, 3.3 assists per game.
Luke Kornet: Center, 7'1", 250 lbs, 13.2 ppg, 40.6% fgp, 32.7% 3pp, 6.2 rpg, 2.0 blocks per game.
Mangok Mathiang: PF, 6'10", 220 lbs, 7.8 ppg, 53.1% fgp, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 blocks per game.
J.J. Frazier: PG, 5'10", 155 lbs, 18.8 ppg, 49.0% fgp, 35.4% 3pp, 3.8 rpg, 4.1 assists per game.
Monte Morris: PG, 6'3", 175 lbs, 16.4 ppg, 46.5% fgp, 37.8% 3pp, 4.8 rpg, 1.5 spg, 6.2 assists per game.

Obviously the best player in this group is Monte Morris a PG that led his Iowa St. team to four consecutive NCAA tournament berths. He's the only player in this group that I could see the Kings using their 2nd round pick on. The rest are players that might fill out our summer league roster, or perhaps be a part of our G-League team. Morris would be a player you send to the G-League for a year and see if you can develop him. He played in a pro set at Iowa St. and is very good at running the P&R. He has an outstanding assist to turnover ratio of 5 to 1. He had 217 assists his senior year and only 42 turnovers. He's not flashy, but has a very high BBIQ and feel for the game.

He's not a great athlete and won't blow by you, but he has more shakes and bakes and hesitation moves, that he seems to get anywhere he wants on the court. If he can extend his range on his three point shot, and get stronger, I can see him being a solid backup PG down the road. While he's a senior, he's still only 21 years old.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That said, the team results at LSU were disappointing to say the least.
True, but LSU was a worse team than the Washington team. When your thing is passing, and you have no one to pass to, it's hard to make an impact. One thing I have no doubts about with Simmons, is his passing ability. One of the best passing in traffic big men I've ever seen. However, we've yet to see how that translates to the NBA.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That was my thought with the Sixers - send Malachi and #5 to sew up Monk and clear a bit of the logjam at SG. The Sixers do have Luwawu and theoretically Korkmaz in the pipeline so I don't know how interested they'd be but it's a solid offer to move up two slots, especially if Monk is their target. Two things jump out at me though. (1) they may well get better offers from a team looking to move up for Jackson, assuming Philly doesn't just take him themselves. It would depend on them really wanting Monk and not wanting to fall back too far and miss him as well as the Suns not making a more aggressive move and (2) I've always been of the feeling that if you love a guy at #3 that is projected to go #5 or #6 that unless you can make a trade and guarantee that your guy will still be there, you just draft him at 3. Who cares if writers covering the NBA think you reached? If that's your guy you go after him.

As for Phoenix, I don't see them wanting to dump salary enough to drop from #4 to #10 unless there's a couple guys they love that are projected to be in that range. I think it's much more likely that they package one of their later picks (20 or 26 I think) with a bad salary for an ending contract or player with a team option.

Leonard and #20 or #26 for Afflalo? Not an awful deal
When you mentioned Leonard, I assume you were referring to Portland, not the Sun's. Portland has the 15th, 20th, and 26th picks. I'd do that trade for the 15th pick. Leonard has three more years left. I suspect that Portland would counter with Turner instead of Leonard. Not sure I would do that deal. Anyway, there some room there to negotiate.
 
When you mentioned Leonard, I assume you were referring to Portland, not the Sun's. Portland has the 15th, 20th, and 26th picks. I'd do that trade for the 15th pick. Leonard has three more years left. I suspect that Portland would counter with Turner instead of Leonard. Not sure I would do that deal. Anyway, there some room there to negotiate.
You're right, I was mixing up the two. Phoenix may want to move Knight but it's Portland that will have the league's highest payroll next season.

The Suns aren't nearly in as bad a place and I can't believe they are that desperate to shed salary. I think they'd be happy to trade Knight but not enough to move from #4 to #10 in a strong draft.
 
Chad Ford is on record saying (or talking to an exec who said) they'd be surprised if a top 20 pick came by, lets see how right he is over the coming weeks
 
When you mentioned Leonard, I assume you were referring to Portland, not the Sun's. Portland has the 15th, 20th, and 26th picks. I'd do that trade for the 15th pick. Leonard has three more years left. I suspect that Portland would counter with Turner instead of Leonard. Not sure I would do that deal. Anyway, there some room there to negotiate.
A bit of recycling here from the Fox thread but instead of taking on bad contracts or players we don't need why not see if Portland would swap our 10th for their 15th and either one of the 20th or 26th. This might allow us to trade up , say the 5th and 20th, for Fox or Jackson, while maintaining another later 1st round pick.

I am starting to think there is more talent in this draft than just ten deep. Also, I would like to keep a Malachi around awhile to see how he fits.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Chad Ford is on record saying (or talking to an exec who said) they'd be surprised if a top 20 pick came by, lets see how right he is over the coming weeks
Well I've read this post ten times, and I still can't figure out what it means. Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I can't figure out what you mean when you say, "they's be surprised if a top 20 pick came by"? Am I missing something. You have my curiosity aroused.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Well I've read this post ten times, and I still can't figure out what it means. Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I can't figure out what you mean when you say, "they's be surprised if a top 20 pick came by"? Am I missing something. You have my curiosity aroused.
I think he's referring to the Chad Ford article suggesting that nobody in the first round will want to come to Sacramento for a workout. Considering we got a different article just a day later with quotes from agents saying Fox, Jackson, Collins and Ntilikina at least would all be coming to Sacramento for workouts if our pick is high enough (that was pre-lottery) and it's already been shown that Chad Ford lifted quotes from last year for his article, I'm not all that concerned about what Chad Ford is on record saying at this point.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
I think he's referring to the Chad Ford article suggesting that nobody in the first round will want to come to Sacramento for a workout. Considering we got a different article just a day later with quotes from agents saying Fox, Jackson, Collins and Ntilikina at least would all be coming to Sacramento for workouts if our pick is high enough (that was pre-lottery) and it's already been shown that Chad Ford lifted quotes from last year for his article, I'm not all that concerned about what Chad Ford is on record saying at this point.
Chad Ford's Inedible Crap Sandwich Rumors

1 terrible journalist
5-6 desperate media outlets
pinch salt

Coddle terrible journalist in lukewarm oven for 15 years. Allow TV budget to get bloated, use as excuse to fire terrible journalist. Be careful after firing terrible journalist to retain journalist's services for a few months after they are fired. Combine terrible journalist with desperate media outlets, mix well. Rumors will develop constantly. Form rumors into shape of crap sandwiches and transfer to greased internet. Take all rumors with pinch of salt.

Yield: 15 dozen crap sandwich rumors