[NBA] Comments that don't warrant their own thread: TDOS Edition
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
- Status
LeBron to opt out. I see him re-signing with MIA, but interesting that the Decision 2 is here again.
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/11127329/lebron-james-opt-contract-miami-heat
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/11127329/lebron-james-opt-contract-miami-heat
why's lebron going back to cleveland, a team that actually tried to make the playoffs last season in a pathetic eastern conference and failed? does he desperately want to play with kyrie irving, anderson varejao, and spencer hawes? is he just itching to play for a former european basketball head coach who has a lot to prove in the nba? does lebron just long to play again for an owner who very famously shredded him to pieces after he skipped town for miami? i know the golden-boy-returns-home storyline represents an attractive kind of sports mythology, but other than that, why does lebron go back? i just don't see it...
cleveland may be able to trade the #1 pick for an impact player, but if i'm lebron, i just got to the nba finals four years in a row playing for one of the most well-regarded owners in the league, one of the most well-regarded executives in the league, one of the most well-regarded coaches in the league, and one of the most attractive cities in the league. i opt out, take a pay cut, ask bosh and wade to do the same, and watch as pat riley does his thing. they can retool that roster back into a championship team in a heartbeat, especially if riles convinces dwayne wade to take a pay cut and accept a sixth man role (no easy task, i'm sure)...
cleveland may be able to trade the #1 pick for an impact player, but if i'm lebron, i just got to the nba finals four years in a row playing for one of the most well-regarded owners in the league, one of the most well-regarded executives in the league, one of the most well-regarded coaches in the league, and one of the most attractive cities in the league. i opt out, take a pay cut, ask bosh and wade to do the same, and watch as pat riley does his thing. they can retool that roster back into a championship team in a heartbeat, especially if riles convinces dwayne wade to take a pay cut and accept a sixth man role (no easy task, i'm sure)...
Here's my reasoning... he's from Cleveland, his wife just posted "home sweet home #330" on instagram regarding Akron. They stay there every off season. He hated the way the decision played out for him. He's got his two titles now and still he deals with constant bs from detractors. I think he's content with two titles and would rather shoot for the moon and go back to Cleveland. Best case he brings a title to Cleveland and is the savior afterall... worst case they never win it, but at least he's once again beloved in his hometown.
He's not motivated by forming another "dream team" wherever the pieces fit I don't think. Been there, done that. Two championships but I don't think he really enjoyed his time in Miami... not like if he would if he goes home and has success. Time to think about after basketball stuff for Lebron... he's going home.
He's not motivated by forming another "dream team" wherever the pieces fit I don't think. Been there, done that. Two championships but I don't think he really enjoyed his time in Miami... not like if he would if he goes home and has success. Time to think about after basketball stuff for Lebron... he's going home.
Content as far as he doesn't NEED one to vindicate his career anymore. He wanted one at all costs four years ago... two titles later and I don't think it's the be-all-end-all for him anymore. I think going back to Cleveland and re-endearing himself to his hometown and POSSIBLY bringing a title to Cleveland after all is the route he's already chosen to go.
I respectfully disagree and I have been reading the same type of things you're talking about. I actually think it would be very poetic for LeBron to go home, but I take no stock in his wife Instagraming a photo of Akron, their hometown. It isn't even Cleveland (despite being 20 minutes away). The Cavs have shown they don't have the right front office to make decisions. LeBron is trying to win championships, I think he's over trying to make things right.
I don't see the Cleveland fans welcoming him back with open arms.
She's just saying she's glad to be out of Miami. I wouldn't try to read too much into it.
And BTW? NO real champion is "content" with what he has. They take huge paycuts to try to get back to the big show. You're painting way too rosy a Lebron picture, IMHO.
She's just saying she's glad to be out of Miami. I wouldn't try to read too much into it.
And BTW? NO real champion is "content" with what he has. They take huge paycuts to try to get back to the big show. You're painting way too rosy a Lebron picture, IMHO.
eric spoelstra was groomed by pat riley, much like how tom thibodeau was groomed first by jeff van gundy and then by doc rivers. note that i didn't claim spoelstra was one of the best coaches in the league (although i do believe such an argument could be easily made), but that he was one of the most well-regarded coaches in the league. pat riley commands respect, and disciples of pat riley likewise are going to command some level of respect...
Top five, Maybe. With a capital M. IYAM, he is significantly behind Popovich, Rivers, Carlisle and Thibodeau. And frankly, I'd need convincing to say that he's a better coach than Clifford, Budenholzer or Casey. Are you inclined to believe that he could have gotten more out of Phoenix this year than Hornacek did? Or more out of Portland than Stotts? LeBron James aside, the Heat were not as good, on paper, as the Indiana Pacers. Do you believe, if they'd switched coaches, that the outcome of the ECF would have been different?
Not saying that he's a bad coach, per se, but he doesn't strike me as much more than the guy who opens up the garage to take the Jaguar out.
Not saying that he's a bad coach, per se, but he doesn't strike me as much more than the guy who opens up the garage to take the Jaguar out.
yeah, imo the ranking goes Pop, Carlisle, Spo in that order. I can see arguments being made for Rivers, but really, he's also mostly known for work with teams that had enormous amounts of talents (as all good coaches are). Thibs may be a brilliant coach as far as devising defensive schemes and motivating his guys goes, but he has near fatal flaws as far as managing minutes goes and isn't exactly known as a great offensive coach either. as far as those other coaches are concerned, it's difficult to judge them on what little experience they've had with their current squads. I distinctly remember you calling Stotts a terrible coach just last offseason, for instance.
Spo has proven he can win. he's obviously great at managing personalities, he has devised near-revolutionary schemes on both offense and defense, in the process unlocking LeBron James' potential as a low-post weapon, he's pretty much unflappable in the face of pressure and is capable of transmitting that onto his team. he's still only a few years in and it remains to be seen if he can win in different circumstances, too, but right now, I'd rejoice if I had that guy as a coach for the foreseeable future.
Spo has proven he can win. he's obviously great at managing personalities, he has devised near-revolutionary schemes on both offense and defense, in the process unlocking LeBron James' potential as a low-post weapon, he's pretty much unflappable in the face of pressure and is capable of transmitting that onto his team. he's still only a few years in and it remains to be seen if he can win in different circumstances, too, but right now, I'd rejoice if I had that guy as a coach for the foreseeable future.
Rivers won COY for coaching a team whose best player was Darrell Armstrong to a .500 record. Hell, the Clippers are the best team that he hasn't gotten to the conference finals. Thibodeau led an unproven team to the ECF, in his first crack at it, and last year he got Joakim Noah and a bunch of guys to the second round. Carlisle is the only active coach to lead three different teams to the conference finals; he might be the only coach ever to have done that.
I did call Stotts a terrible coach, but
He can't. He's already proven he can't. Spoelstra has not gotten out of the first round with fewer than two Hall of Famers on his team. There's nothing remotely "revolutionary" about his schemes; there's nothing remotely "near-revolutionary" about his schemes. His "schemes" resemble Paul Westhead's "schemes" from the early eighties: give the ball to Magic LeBron. Some scheme.
I did call Stotts a terrible coach, but
- He proved me wrong.
- He's gotten more out of less than Spoelstra has.
He can't. He's already proven he can't. Spoelstra has not gotten out of the first round with fewer than two Hall of Famers on his team. There's nothing remotely "revolutionary" about his schemes; there's nothing remotely "near-revolutionary" about his schemes. His "schemes" resemble Paul Westhead's "schemes" from the early eighties: give the ball to Magic LeBron. Some scheme.
COY doesn't register with me. doesn't mean anything other than that the team someone coached has had a surprisingly good season. Thibs has always had a fairly strong team talent-wise and has had the advantage of coaching in the East (and yes, Spoelstra has benefitted from the same advantage). he's also pretty much killed his major minute guys season after season, usually leading to many of them missing significant time, especially late season. last year's effort to rally to the 4th seed, though it was an incredibly weak conference, was commendable, but they were still summarily dismissed in the first round. Carlisle, as I said, I'll happily acknowledge as the superior coach. he's gotten a lot out of seemingly inferior teams time and again, and has actually won a ring doing so.
as far as Stotts, he's managed to win one playoff round with that roster and I'm not sure that the talent gap between those two teams was all that large last season. that Heat team, outside of LeBron, was pretty weak.
he has proven he can't? are you kidding me? four out of six years he has made the Finals and the two times he didn't, he has lead a roster that featured Dwyane Wade and really nobody else to the playoffs. the '09 roster had 42 games of post-Suns and not really caring all that much Shawn Marion and an (at that point) fairly decrepit Jermaine O'Neal, those were their biggest names outside of Wade. hell, '10 Michael Beasley was their second leading scorer. they still made the playoffs. that doesn't exactly scream evidence of failure to me.
as far as the revolutionary-ness is concerned: the Heat relied on the low-post game of their SG and SF with pretty much only jump-shooters surrounding them. they had one big guy rim protector during their runs and that guy came off the bench. their whole defense was all trapping and doubling and swarming like hell. they won multiple championships playing small ball. when before has that ever worked? and yeah, I consider that revolutionary, what else is?
and saying their offense is only throwing the ball to LeBron and watch what happens is not correct, imo. yeah, most of their offense ran through him, sure, as it should. but once the ball got moving, everybody knew what to do, where to pass, when to cut, how to attack, and so on. that was no stagnant OKC offense that had no idea what to once their second option was eliminated.
as far as Stotts, he's managed to win one playoff round with that roster and I'm not sure that the talent gap between those two teams was all that large last season. that Heat team, outside of LeBron, was pretty weak.
he has proven he can't? are you kidding me? four out of six years he has made the Finals and the two times he didn't, he has lead a roster that featured Dwyane Wade and really nobody else to the playoffs. the '09 roster had 42 games of post-Suns and not really caring all that much Shawn Marion and an (at that point) fairly decrepit Jermaine O'Neal, those were their biggest names outside of Wade. hell, '10 Michael Beasley was their second leading scorer. they still made the playoffs. that doesn't exactly scream evidence of failure to me.
as far as the revolutionary-ness is concerned: the Heat relied on the low-post game of their SG and SF with pretty much only jump-shooters surrounding them. they had one big guy rim protector during their runs and that guy came off the bench. their whole defense was all trapping and doubling and swarming like hell. they won multiple championships playing small ball. when before has that ever worked? and yeah, I consider that revolutionary, what else is?
and saying their offense is only throwing the ball to LeBron and watch what happens is not correct, imo. yeah, most of their offense ran through him, sure, as it should. but once the ball got moving, everybody knew what to do, where to pass, when to cut, how to attack, and so on. that was no stagnant OKC offense that had no idea what to once their second option was eliminated.
You mean, like Wade?
That was this year; last year, they got to the second round.
Portland is better at point guard, and no other position. I think people may be looking at Bosh's recent production, and forgetting how big a step he took back to be the third banana in Miami; he's better than Aldridge.
Thibodeau, a coach you think is inferior, has gotten further with about the same amount of talent.
There's nothing revolutionary about it: Adelman did that eight years ago, with Ron Artest and Bonzi Wells. And, if Wells hadn't gone Sprewell, and demanded more money than he was worth, it may have very well been the backbone of a contender.
You may have noticed that I didn't say I thought that Brooks was a better coach. Better than Scott Brooks =/= Top Three.
That was this year; last year, they got to the second round.
Portland is better at point guard, and no other position. I think people may be looking at Bosh's recent production, and forgetting how big a step he took back to be the third banana in Miami; he's better than Aldridge.
Thibodeau, a coach you think is inferior, has gotten further with about the same amount of talent.
There's nothing revolutionary about it: Adelman did that eight years ago, with Ron Artest and Bonzi Wells. And, if Wells hadn't gone Sprewell, and demanded more money than he was worth, it may have very well been the backbone of a contender.
You may have noticed that I didn't say I thought that Brooks was a better coach. Better than Scott Brooks =/= Top Three.
hasn't played 35+ minutes in years and his problems mainly stem from a removed meniscus way back when. plus he had the complete cuddle "you don't even need to play back2back" package this year. meanwhile, guys in Chicago, even fresh off injuries, regularly log 35+ minutes in 20-point regular season blowouts. those situations don't compare.
I haven't seen Bosh be an effective go-to guy in years, whereas Aldridge has just had an insane season performing as exactly that. plus, he's been a much better rebounder and a better defender. then you get to that fifth Heat starter, Battier last year, who's also clearly inferior to his PDX counterpart. so in the end, three of five positions for Portland are better and the two matchups the Heat should win, the Blazers have guys that will always put up a fight against them. especially Matthews against Wade can be close, depending on Wade's current health and mood.
I disagree. I'll take even the Deng-less outfit from two years ago over what Miami had to work with in the playoffs the two years before Bosh and James joined them.
the revolutionary part is that he created an elite defense without a big guy rim protector using an insane scheme and that he made a small ball offense work to the degree that it won him two titles.
I didn't infer that either. I used OKC as an example of a predictable offense that relies on throwing the ball to their star talent and letting them do their thing (and can, at times, be derailed by simply denying on pass, as Tony Allen showed). that was never the case in Miami. those guys know how their counters and they also know exactly how to space and move the ball against double teams. just watching how crisp their passes were and seeing their guards pass out the ball precisely after they penetrated against a shifting defense to me is evidence of elite level coaching.
I haven't seen Bosh be an effective go-to guy in years, whereas Aldridge has just had an insane season performing as exactly that. plus, he's been a much better rebounder and a better defender. then you get to that fifth Heat starter, Battier last year, who's also clearly inferior to his PDX counterpart. so in the end, three of five positions for Portland are better and the two matchups the Heat should win, the Blazers have guys that will always put up a fight against them. especially Matthews against Wade can be close, depending on Wade's current health and mood.
I disagree. I'll take even the Deng-less outfit from two years ago over what Miami had to work with in the playoffs the two years before Bosh and James joined them.
the revolutionary part is that he created an elite defense without a big guy rim protector using an insane scheme and that he made a small ball offense work to the degree that it won him two titles.
I didn't infer that either. I used OKC as an example of a predictable offense that relies on throwing the ball to their star talent and letting them do their thing (and can, at times, be derailed by simply denying on pass, as Tony Allen showed). that was never the case in Miami. those guys know how their counters and they also know exactly how to space and move the ball against double teams. just watching how crisp their passes were and seeing their guards pass out the ball precisely after they penetrated against a shifting defense to me is evidence of elite level coaching.
He averaged 34.7 in 2012-13. That's splitting hairs like a mother****er. He averaged 32.9 this season, and that's the fewest he's averaged in his career.
You haven't seen Bosh on a team that didn't have LeBron James in years, either. On a team with James, why would Bosh be the go-to guy? In the nine games Bosh has played in Miami without James, he's averaged 23.2pts, 8.8reb, 2.3ast and 1.0blk, which is right online with his Toronto numbers. In fact, that's more points and more assists than his Toronto numbers. And, in the one game he played against Portland without James, he dominated Aldridge.
Based on what? Both the raw numbers and the advanced metrics indicate that Bosh is better at both.
Two out of five. I'll give you Batum, but Matthews is not better than Wade, Aldridge is not better than either James or Bosh, and neither is Lopez.
Switch the coaches, and you'd switch the outcomes, as well.
LeBron James has a strange way of making any coach's "insane scheme" look good. If James doesn't take his talents to South Beach, Spoelstra is back in the A/V Room Riley dug him out of.
You haven't seen Bosh on a team that didn't have LeBron James in years, either. On a team with James, why would Bosh be the go-to guy? In the nine games Bosh has played in Miami without James, he's averaged 23.2pts, 8.8reb, 2.3ast and 1.0blk, which is right online with his Toronto numbers. In fact, that's more points and more assists than his Toronto numbers. And, in the one game he played against Portland without James, he dominated Aldridge.
Based on what? Both the raw numbers and the advanced metrics indicate that Bosh is better at both.
Two out of five. I'll give you Batum, but Matthews is not better than Wade, Aldridge is not better than either James or Bosh, and neither is Lopez.
Switch the coaches, and you'd switch the outcomes, as well.
LeBron James has a strange way of making any coach's "insane scheme" look good. If James doesn't take his talents to South Beach, Spoelstra is back in the A/V Room Riley dug him out of.
In terms of turning lemons into lemonade, the Jason Kidd-Bucks situation is like you getting to the juicer with a fresh batch of lemons when someone comes out of nowhere and hits you with a car.
The new Milwaukee regime hasn't exactly kicked things off in an awesome manner.
Also, totally **** move by Kidd.
The new Milwaukee regime hasn't exactly kicked things off in an awesome manner.
Also, totally **** move by Kidd.
yeah, the jason kidd situation is going about as typically as one would expect, when considering the ways that kidd has traditionally conducted his business in the nba. the guy's a shark of the highest order, always ready and willing to stab someone in the back or throw someone under the bus, without the slightest consideration for the ramifications of his actions. he doesn't care an ounce how his dealings affect the team at large. i thought brooklyn made a mistake by hiring him as head coach in the first place; they smartly chose not to double-down on that mistake by caving to kidd's beyond-ludicrous extortion for more power. good for them. bad for the bucks, who are about to turn the immediate future of their young, impressionable team over to a child who will pout and sulk when things don't go his way. however, it may mean that guys like larry sanders and john henson could be on the move, given that kidd will certainly be looking to put his stamp on the roster as quickly as possible. perhaps the kings could take advantage of the chaos brewing in milwaukee...
I'm going to kinda/sorta take the other position on this: I love how Kidd looked at his team getting pounded by a deficient Miami team in the second round and thought, "Well, that's enough resume padding! Time to look for a promotion!" No drawing board, no running it back... he took a team that was, ostensibly, built to beat the Heat, got smashed by said Heat, and still had the balls to go to his boss, and say, "Gimme a raise! And a promotion, too!"
This guy is failing upwards in a way that would make Isiah Thomas proud.
This guy is failing upwards in a way that would make Isiah Thomas proud.
- Status