Discussion in 'NBA' started by PurpleHaze, May 17, 2017.
Boogie may legitimately be their best three point shooter.
Frazier is a bad 3 point shooter and has problems when playing off the ball. Pel's are adamant, that they need as much shooting as possible on the floor with Boogie and AD. Demps seems to be comfortable, that he can find some diamond in the rough somewhere. Drafted Jackson, who shot 39% from 3 in college. Now they are going after James Young, who is still only 21 and might still eventually turn into a solid shooting threat. They signed Quinn Cook and J.Crawford late in the past season.
Pretty obvious pattern there. Get as much shooting on bargain deals as possible and hope someone breaks out.
Because they pretty much have no assets to make trades at all besides dealing Boogie or AD, I think this is the only way forward for them. But I doubt, they can built a good enough roster around their two bigs to make some noise.
It's amazing how many of their problems stem from simply resigning Omer Asik to a horrible contract for some reason. The dude's gonna make 34 million dollars over the next three years and he's now possibly the worst player on their roster.
Yeah. I will never understand, why they resigned him. Even before his extension he was nothing special.
Quincy Pondexter blowing out his knees, signing Kendrick Perkins, not developing Austin Rivers - the Pelicans are one of the better examples in the league, how bad luck and incompetence of a franchise can hold even one of the best players back.
For DMC it's out of the frying pan and into the fire.
One can only hope, that AD and DMC are good enough to lead the few solid role players the Pel's have to success.
Well, word in the street is that Brooklyn has started their own "Trash for Cash" program; they might be willing to eat Asik's contract, although I'll be damned if I can figure out how New Orleans would make it worth their while?
and since the Pelicans do have minimal assets to surround their two star players, this gives me hope that Boogie will leave in free agency next summer and find greener pastures where he can finally get a taste of winning, unless they somehow start doing so this season. Time will tell. I don't want to see Boogie sign a early extension however, test free agency and go from there.
When I (and some others) called Demarcus fat and out of shape last season in some gamethreads I was met with alot of backlash but now take a look at this. All of a sudden he wants to fix his diet and training regimen? (*cough cough* contract year) Where was this last year or the years prior?? Too busy posing with Matt Barnes and Henny bottles while the team was fighting and clawing for that 8 seed?? GK was right this guy was downright out of shape. As more time passes on i'm more and more content with moving on from DMC, biggest mistake was not doing it sooner. He has clearly benefited from it as it has woke him up and if some of these picks work out then we have benefited too.
1. in a sport without weight classes body fat % is pretty meaningless.
2. the formula you seem to believe in (less weight= always a good thing in basketball) is oversimplified.
3. DMC was never out of shape. He is a professional athlete and he was able to dominate in games using his physical profile. Out of shape in sports means not being able to perform at the personal best and doesn't mean necessarily, what it means for the average person. You can ask professional strongman, powerlifters and weight lifters about what it means to be out of shape in their sport and in the highest weight class (when there are weight classes) the answers won't be - "man I'm simply too fat". Or if you want to concentrate on non strength sports, maybe take a look at the average line backer in football.
Weight only becomes a problem the moment it leads to injuries or to endurance problems or leads to not being able to keep up with the speed of the game.
In fact weight can be extremely beneficial in basketball, when it comes to establishing and keeping position or when it comes to wrestling in the paint.
And here we have the reason, why GK called DMC out of shape and why DMC does his best this offseason to lower his weight.
Both GK and Alvin Gentry want to play uptempo and want to use DMC mainly as a perimeter player, who initiates the offense. Neither wants DMC to go to work down low.
In the mind of these coaches, it's way more important to get DMC as light as possible, than it is to keep his strength.
We can argue that uptempo and perimeter oriented is just the way the league is playing nowadays and that it's therefore mandatory for every player to adapt.
I won't necessarily disagree with that.
But this still doesn't mean, that DMC was out of shape. DMC was/is a mixture of skill and brute strength. All of his career he was used to bully lighter players using his superior weight, paired with his very good quickness for such a heavy dude.
DMC's weight was always a ridge walk. For his prefered playstyle he needed to be heavy enough to bully some players, but quick enough to beat bigger guys with a quick first step. And this playstyle led DMC to multiple All-Star teams and to being in the conversation of the "best big man in basketball". I think it's a pretty safe assumption, that this playstyle did work for himself and that his body was suited extremely well for it. Therefore DMC was not out of shape. He was where he needed to be to play his game.
Now his playstyle arguable didn't lead to team success. Wether this is correlated with his weight or even with his own personal performace, is pretty speculative. But it's a fact, that he didn't win enough with the Kings (you know slender dudes like AD or KAT also didn't post impressive win-loss-records but whatever).
You can always claim, that this league is a run and gun league and that players need to be able to play uptempo at all costs. I get that. I just tend to think, that this mindset will take away DMC biggest strength. The ridge walk between being a bully and being a finesse player.
I completely disagree, sitting courtside you could see he could not get up and down the court without huffing and puffing and that huffing and puffing came on faster than any other player out there yes even vs guys his size or even bigger, it was evident that he was not conditioned. The game speeding up is not a new revelation it has basically been the story since 2011 but boogie never prepared for it. Boogie said himself that he could run and he has been playing more and more faceup and penetrate since 2013 (almost exclusively now) yet never changed his body until now? Even he realized he was overweight.
Im not saying DMC had to be slender or whatever but he should have been leaner and still strong, look how lean lebron, Kyrie, Westbrook, Deandre, Draymond to name a few are yet are still strong as heck. DMC was not in tip top shape and as a franchise player wanting 200 Mil and that is unacceptable in my eyes. Not the greatest evidence but look at the video of him with team usa and all of them clowning on him being fat, those guys are around trainers and nutritionists all day there is definitely something to him being fat while being here otherwise why lean up now??
But I guess some people will defend Boogie to the death, He was not fat to average joe standards but to pro athlete franchise players he was absolutely fat and from there I guess we can agree to disagree.
Yes maybe we should agree to disagree. Btw. nothing to do with defending Boogie to the death, or else we need to talk about how some people try to trash the big guy on every opportunity for whatever reasons, but I think this leads nowhere, other than to us being impolite and trying to use cheap tricks to discredit our respective opinions.
No he wasn't fat from a pro athlete standpoint. Having problems keeping up with the pace is indeed the achilles heel of building a franchise around a heavy big man. That was pretty much working as intended for the Kings.
Boogie is indeed somewhat of a dinosaur in todays NBA. But you seem desperate to draw the conclusion, that this is because he is lazy or didn't care enough or whatever.
As a big man, without explosive leaping ability (with explosiveness being mostly genetic btw.) it's not unreasonable to try to be as strong as possible. And what you seem to not understand about strength is that strength is not entirely determined by your lean muscle mass.
The NBA is not a body building contest, even if the pictures posted by Julius Randle hint otherwise. Of course posting six pack snaps always gets you the Ohh's and Ahhs from people and you will be praised for your tremendous work ethic. But in the end it's the functional strength, that counts on the floor and for unexplosive guys like Boogie, Marcus Smart, Zbo I don't think it's the best way to try to mimic genetically gifted persons like Westbrook, D. Jordan or Lebron.
Every athlete needs to find a way to work with the physical attributes given to him. He needs to find his own personal way to success. It remains to be seen, if getting shredded and lean will improve Boogies performance. From a skill stand point Boogie is able to impact the game from so many angles, that it might work, but losing weight means also losing some facettes of his game.
Not to take sides, but since the league has changed the speed of the game and the way its being played more on the perimeter, it would do Boogie some good to lean down and become quick and agile. He won't ever be known as a tremendous defender and that's fine, he just needs to stay fit enough to run with all the other bigs in the league that aren't as bulky and strong as he is because he will get run out of the gym if he doesn't make an improvement in his body and based on what we've been seeing with his transformation, he understands this too.
This is certainly a reasonable argument. But this has nothing to do with him being out of shape. It has something to do with changing his game and therefore adapting his body to these changes. And it doesn't necessarily mean his overall production will improve, because getting leaner has his downsights. Btw. it's once again a hint how coachable DMC really is, despite "sources" reporting otherwise.
After all what you describe is something Gasol did in the past to keep up with the pace of the league. But Gasol never was the physical presence DMC is. Getting leaner didn't take away much from Gasol, because he never relied on powering through opponents.
And how about the other side of the coin? Boogie eventually gets run out of the gym, but how are guys like Porzingis, Noel, WCS and such dealing with the strength of Cousins? I'm not a believe in big man bully ball in todays league, but this is still a question that needs to be answered and I know that Boogie and Embiid are currently the only guys, that give fans, who want to watch a change of the leagues current playstyle, some sort of hope, because they have the physical profile and the skillset to be real gamechangers.
Like I said - it's a fine line and I certainly don't claim to have any sort of solution.
No one has a solution until a solution actually occurs. Dumars said it best on ESPN a few days ago, emulating what the Warriors are doing is a mistake. It's a copycat league and that's what all teams are trying to do now. Boogie leaning down is better for his overall health, well being and conditioning. He can't be a 270+ pound bully for his entire career because let's face it, up to this point it has gotten him no where. That's not to say it's all his fault but it's a two way street. What he is simply doing now is trying something new, which I applaud him in doing so. The faster and leaner he is, the more of a offensive powerhouse he and Davis will be. That doesn't necessarily mean that will equate to more wins because when you look at the Pelicans roster after those two, it's dreadful. I also remember last season where Cousins lost 18-20 pounds and then gained it back by the time the season started. Let's see if it's a different story this time around. Everyone looks better in the offseason when they aren't constantly on the road and the fact that he hired a personal chef tells me all I need to know about his commitment to a healthy diet.
I question the notion of whether or not it's actually going to make Cousins any more of an offensive powerhouse. I don't really believe that there's anything that Cousins will be able to do offensively at two hundred fifty pounds that he couldn't already do at two seventy-five.
He will probably just take less plays off but I don't see his actual game changing.
Whatever Cousins gives you by "taking less plays off," he'll probably take back by losing effectiveness in the paint. Besides which, Cousins "taking plays off" wasn't really a function of his fitness, so much as it was his attitude, and I don't see weight loss doing anything to change that.
You Northern California cats better be on this:
I disagree on that. Cousins took plays off for both reasons. I saw plenty of timeouts called strictly because he was tired.
"...and all the rappers in the top 10, please allow me to bump thee..."
You make it sound like those occurrences happened in equal proportion to each other. I would strongly contest that claim.
Phil Jackson and the Knicks will be parting ways this week according to espn.
Of course not but him not being tired could be the difference in him scoring 25ppg vs. 27ppg. If he didn't whine and get frustrated, it could be the difference in 27ppg vs. 30ppg. Who knows but either way it hurts his team. In all honesty it hurts the defense much more than the offense anyway.
He's already averaged twenty-seven points per game, tired and all, whining and all. Playing with another guy like Anthony Davis, he's unlikely to average appreciably more than that, whether he whines less or not, whether he's less tired or not, unless Davis willingly takes a secondary role in the offense.
CP3 going to Houston...the next domino should be PG13 followed by Blake
So I guess it'll be just as easy to root against chris paul now as it was last season.
Clutch City has now turned into Flop City.
Nice job Phil.
At least they got a decent PG for the Triangle.
Rumor is they'd have taken DSJ had Phil not made the pick.
I'm just so grateful I always hated that team right now.
Paul Pierce just got waived.