[Game] Kings vs. Warriors, 10/27/2023 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern (ESPN)

[hrdboild]

You should go back and watch that game. I turned it off after watching Huerter get targeted, missing assignments, being slow to rotate, and losing his man. Huerter was a BIG problem last night.

Fair enough! I suppose what I meant to say there is that Huerter's shot being off is not the problem. As a defender.. he does lower the overall ceiling of our starting unit because of the way teams hunt favorable switches and exploit them. Steph made some crazy shots against us as he always seems to but there are guys in the league who are capable of making him work harder to get his points. It just looks effortless for him against us right now

Bottom line for me is that someway or somehow we need an elite wing defender in the rotation. Fox, Murry, and Sabonis are decent enough on defense and obviously they're irreplaceable on offense so their spots are secure. Monk's instant offense off the bench and Vezenkov's quick release will keep both of them in the rotation. It's no secret that Huerter and Barnes are the guys we dangle in any trade to try to bring back a defender. But in the meantime, this group needs to find a way to more consistently apply pressure to opposing offenses as a team. There are way too many holes right now.

 

[sactowndog]

The problem with this team is if you put players at their best position I think you have

point: Fox, Monk, Davion, Ford
2 guard: Huerter, Duarte, Jones, Ellis
3 : Edwards
Stretch 4: Murray, Barnes, Vezenkov, Lyles
Big: Sabonis, Magee, Len

they have
two starting Caliber points,
two starting Caliber stretch 4’s

zero starting caliber 2-3 players.

 

[sactowndog]

Fair enough! I suppose what I meant to say there is that Huerter's shot being off is not the problem. As a defender.. he does lower the overall ceiling of our starting unit because of the way teams hunt favorable switches and exploit them. Steph made some crazy shots against us as he always seems to but there are guys in the league who are capable of making him work harder to get his points. It just looks effortless for him against us right now

Bottom line for me is that someway or somehow we need an elite wing defender in the rotation. Fox, Murry, and Sabonis are decent enough on defense and obviously they're irreplaceable on offense so their spots are secure. Monk's instant offense off the bench and Vezenkov's quick release will keep both of them in the rotation. It's no secret that Huerter and Barnes are the guys we dangle in any trade to try to bring back a defender. But in the meantime, this group needs to find a way to more consistently apply pressure to opposing offenses as a team. There are way too many holes right now.

Barnes can’t be traded with his contract

 

[SacTownKid]

Barnes can’t be traded with his contract

I disagree, compared to similar talent at the F spot Barnes is actually on a pretty fair deal. If you look at the Kings cap it appears like Monte structured most deals on the books to make a deal down the line possible in a variety of different ways if need be. There are a lot of numbers that can work together in trade scenarios on the lower end of the Kings cap right now. It seems like it has been this way for a few years now but the Bulls are the ones to watch. If LaVine comes to the block I doubt the Bulls are blowing it up, they might want some veteran depth and a starting SG to step in that doesn't need the ball, hmmm....

 

[sactowndog]

I disagree, compared to similar talent at the F spot Barnes is actually on a pretty fair deal. If you look at the Kings cap it appears like Monte structured most deals on the books to make a deal down the line possible in a variety of different ways if need be. There are a lot of numbers that can work together in trade scenarios on the lower end of the Kings cap right now. It seems like it has been this way for a few years now but the Bulls are the ones to watch. If LaVine comes to the block I doubt the Bulls are blowing it up, they might want some veteran depth and a starting SG to step in that doesn't need the ball, hmmm....

that wasn’t my point. I don’t remember the exact details besides the 10% trade kicker but they are restricted from trading him.

 

[The_Jamal]

The problem with this team is if you put players at their best position I think you have

point: Fox, Monk, Davion, Ford
2 guard: Huerter, Duarte, Jones, Ellis
3 : Edwards
Stretch 4: Murray, Barnes, Vezenkov, Lyles
Big: Sabonis, Magee, Len

they have
two starting Caliber points,
two starting Caliber stretch 4’s

zero starting caliber 2-3 players.

Welcome back.

This list blows though. What the actual hell are these player profiles? Not only are they wrong, but positions do NOT matter in the year 2023. Literally at all

 

[twslam07]

that wasn’t my point. I don’t remember the exact details besides the 10% trade kicker but they are restricted from trading him.

I believe they can’t trade him until 12/29

 

[Rain man]

This loss could be a good thing in that sense because we'll know a lot more about this team then. Preseason or not, that last loss hurt this team. They came out chippy. Now with Curry dumping all over them Kobe style this becomes a hatred if this Kings teams is anything closer to contending.

I think the game in SF next week will be really interesting. Last time the Kings went to SF, they were coming off a Game 5 loss and everyone was writing them off as exposed and unable to hang with the Warriors in a big moment. And the Kings responded with their best game of the season an dismantled the Warriors in an elimination game. One think about the Kings is that they have a lot of heart and do not give up - even down 20 last night they fought and made it a game. Guys like Fox, Sabonis, and Monk simply won't let them quit or get down. I have no problem if you want to question guys like Huerter, but I have no worries that Fox, Monk, or Sabonis are the least bit worried about last night and will come out intimidated in the next game.

 

[PorchSurfin]

The problem with this team is if you put players at their best position I think you have

point: Fox, Monk, Davion, Ford
2 guard: Huerter, Duarte, Jones, Ellis
3 : Edwards
Stretch 4: Murray, Barnes, Vezenkov, Lyles
Big: Sabonis, Magee, Len

they have
two starting Caliber points,
two starting Caliber stretch 4’s

zero starting caliber 2-3 players.

You're wrong, and when it happens I'll make sure to remind you.


Colby Jones is an elite option starting at the 2, and it will be proven at some point this year.

 

[PorchSurfin]

By the end of the year, Keegan will drop 25-28 points in a game like this. He missed a lot of shots he will eventually make.

I'm looking out for the Keegan - 40 pt game crew - cuz it's gonna happen at some point this year. Dude is gonna get hot, and he's gonna GO.

I wouldn't be shocked if Keegan has more than 1 40pt game this year, and multiple in his career.

It needs to be said that Ivey is coming off the bench. For those in the back who refuse to listen.

 

[sactowndog]

Welcome back.

This list blows though. What the actual hell are these player profiles? Not only are they wrong, but positions do NOT matter in the year 2023. Literally at all

haha. Who you can guard sure as hell does matter.

for the Stretch 4’s, none of those guys can guard 2-3 wings. They all struggle with quicker 3’s as we say Kuminga drive by them all repeatedly.

as for the twos none of them are long enough to guard a 3 or 4. I’m not sure we have a starting caliber player among them.

you can make an argument about Malik being a 2 but I think Malik at the two is like Dame and CJ where they were just too small and when CJ got traded they made him a ball handler. In Malik’s case he actually does well as the lead ball handler and runs the pick and roll pretty well.

I know I said this before and I didn’t see any reason to repeat myself but I didn’t see much reason to change my mind last night. We shall see if tomorrow is different.

 

[PorchSurfin]

haha. Who you can guard sure as hell does matter.

for the Stretch 4’s, none of those guys can guard 2-3 wings. They all struggle with quicker 3’s as we say Kuminga drive by them all repeatedly.

as for the twos none of them are long enough to guard a 3 or 4. I’m not sure we have a starting caliber player among them.

you can make an argument about Malik being a 2 but I think Malik at the two is like Dame and CJ where they were just too small and when CJ got traded they made him a ball handler. In Malik’s case he actually does well as the lead ball handler and runs the pick and roll pretty well.

I know I said this before and I didn’t see any reason to repeat myself but I didn’t see much reason to change my mind last night. We shall see if tomorrow is different.

You're so cocky. And yet. So wrong.

 

[NewArena]

For me, Monk needs to start if Fox is gonna wait for the 2nd half and 4th quarter to be aggressive.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

By the end of the year, Keegan will drop 25-28 points in a game like this. He missed a lot of shots he will eventually make.

I'm looking out for the Keegan - 40 pt game crew - cuz it's gonna happen at some point this year. Dude is gonna get hot, and he's gonna GO.

I wouldn't be shocked if Keegan has more than 1 40pt game this year, and multiple in his career.

It needs to be said that Ivey is coming off the bench. For those in the back who refuse to listen.

I'm not sure I actually saw any Keegan doubters around.

 

[Padrino]

So much overreacting in Kings Rap threads right now. To everything. I forgot that the start of the season is equal parts jubilation because NBA basketball is back and frustration because Kings fans can't help but draw wide-ranging conclusions to extremely narrow sample sizes.

 

[Tetsujin]

So much overreacting in Kings Rap threads right now. To everything. I forgot that the start of the season is equal parts jubilation because NBA basketball is back and frustration because Kings fans can't help but draw wide-ranging conclusions to extremely narrow sample sizes.

I still fully believe in my theory that Kings fans are so damaged by seventeen years of losing that they're conditioned to believe that every single loss is just the start of a reversion to the mean and that the Kings are just a sucky team that accidentally rode an 82 game hot streak into the postseason.

 

[Tetsujin]

Welcome back.

This list blows though. What the actual hell are these player profiles? Not only are they wrong, but positions do NOT matter in the year 2023. Literally at all

I mean, this is the proponent of "O-Max Prosper: starting 3/2 wing" we're talking to here.

And for all the talk about the Kings having no one to defend wings, it's been the small guards who've torched us the most unless Steph magically counts as a wing for some reason.

 

[Tetsujin]

that wasn’t my point. I don’t remember the exact details besides the 10% trade kicker but they are restricted from trading him.

Literally every single player signed to a free agent contract is subject to that same restriction so I'm not sure why we're super duper concerned with HB's extremely affordable in the context of the modern NBA contract in particular.

 

[hrdboild]

Barnes can’t be traded with his contract

That trade restriction expires on December 29th. How impatient are you?

 

[joemama]

How about a thread for the game today pls?

 

[LPKingsFan]

Didn’t Barnes technically sign an extension? Are the trade restrictions the same?

 

[macadocious]

No he signed as an UFA

 

[sactowndog]

Literally every single player signed to a free agent contract is subject to that same restriction so I'm not sure why we're super duper concerned with HB's extremely affordable in the context of the modern NBA contract in particular.

My understanding, and I freely admit I could be wrong, was something about it being signed under the new collective bargaining agreement made it hard or impossible to trade Barnes.

I did a quick Google search but no luck….

 

[sactowndog]

That trade restriction expires on December 29th. How impatient are you?

again this was signed under the new collective bargaining agreement…. My recollection was he was not tradable for a year but I can’t find documentation.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

again this was signed under the new collective bargaining agreement…. My recollection was he was not tradable for a year but I can’t find documentation.

I don't recall there being any changes on that front in the new CBA. Edit: Things are a bit trickier with Barnes because his contract was technically an extension and not a free agent contract. It would appear that the one year restriction you are referring to applies only to Designated Veteran extensions, and Barnes' contract was not a DV extension. In fact, since the Barnes extension appears on first glance to fall under the criteria for an extend-and-trade he presumably is not even subject to the more standard 6-month trade restriction and would appear to be eligible to be traded now.

Shutting down this thread, not to get the last word but because the new game thread is up.