[Game] Kings v. Clippers - Thursday, Jan. 11 - 7 PT

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Thank you! Good to see your analysis, since I know you can be very critical when needs be. I think you said it all in your last sentence. They are bad, but they're not "hopelessly bad".
  2. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    If I were forced to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because they don't need to lock him into the big-boy roster right now. Having him on the 2-way keeps him in our stable until the dust settles and they get a better handle on who is going to stay and who's going to be heading out going forward.
    Kingster likes this.
  3. JCTNKINGFAN

    JCTNKINGFAN Active Member

    A voice of reason
    VF21 likes this.
  4. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Skal just needs to play more games. I don’t know if they have VR for basketball but if not Skal needs it. He more than anyone would benefit from playing in Reno.
  5. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    I don’t think a one size fits all approach. If a player has a high basketball IQ then being on the floor and learning is helpful. If the player has a lower IQ like Skal playing in spurts and teaching off it may be more effective.

    One problem with the Kings is they don’t have a lot of high IQ guys on the team.
  6. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    Isn’t that typical of rookies and first year players?
  7. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    Maybe. The veterans do the same thing. Some of the Kings most serious problems are mental.
    Some players can't get motivated very well. Maybe they need to find another line of work.
  8. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Maybe they need another team instead?
    burekijogurt likes this.
  9. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    The Kings are way too complacent. They accept defeat easily. They need a team shrink.
  10. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I agree with your "good news" paragraph, but the George Hill paragraph is absolutely dumbfounding. If you don't know why I can't stand the guy, then you just haven't been watching him and what he does or not do on the floor. The 3 pt shooting stat is incredibly deceiving. He must be better than Lou Williams.:rolleyes: The Clipps should make that trade. Nope, that certainly won't happen. How many 3 pointers has this guy even taken? The guy is obviously not invested into being with the Kings - no fire, no aggression, going through the motions, playing by the book and not taking the game personally, just absent without leave for 90% of the season. I would only hope that some other GM would look at Hill's 3 point percentage and give the Kings something of value his shooting expertise. The guy has been an absolute downer and when you have a young team going through difficult times the last thing you want on the roster is a vet downer who doesn't want to be in the foxhole with you.
    John Galt and fansinceday1 like this.
  11. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    As I've said before, I haven't really been watching games this season. I've watched almost every terrible game for the last 10 years and decided I needed a break this year. I happened to tune in for this game and Hill played very well. I get that he hasn't lived up to expectations, but the comments I've read here are way over the top as if he's actively sabotaging games. How much of this is just about his salary? Or is it frustration that De'Aaron Fox hasn't immediately lit the league on fire? Or maybe people didn't know what we were getting with George Hill in the first place? This is a guy who came into the league in Popovich's system. He plays a simple, disciplined veteran game -- moves the ball quickly, takes smart shots, doesn't gamble on defense. Nothing about his game is flashy or exciting. Is he just going through the motions? Have off-court issues been too much of a distraction? I don't really know but you're laying the hyperbole on pretty thick just in your response to my comments and that's what doesn't make sense to me.

    Obviously he's not playing as well as Lou Williams who could be an All-Star this year, that doesn't mean he's a net negative. Surely there's some middle ground here.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018 at 2:50 PM
  12. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    I also find it puzzling that fans of this team -- with everything we've been through from the Maloofs active sabotage, the multi year relocation saga, the disastrous Pete and Chris era, Vivek's "jazz band" inanity and so on would turn up their noses at steady journeyman players because they lack apparent passion for the game. The emotional ups and downs have been a big part of the problem. We could stand to have a little lot more even-tempered professionalism on the court to balance out the erratic antics of all these young kids.

    I also think the only real strength of our team this season (last place in offensive and defensive efficiency) has been three point shooting where we ranked 4th in the league last I checked and Hill hasn't just been good in that regard, he's been great. He's not a volume shooter so that elite shooting percentage isn't impacting the game as much as a guy like Steph Curry who's making 3 times as many shots at a slightly lower percentage but would it kill you to give just a wee bit of credit where it's due?

    I mean I don't really care that much, I just read through the board every now and then and the George Hill disdain doesn't accord with what I saw so I just felt it warranted a mention. Perhaps if I'd watched more games I would understand.
    VF21, pdxKingsFan and dude12 like this.
  13. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Yes, you should watch more games.
  14. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Teams are defending the Kings at the 3 point line. Still I think the focus of the Kings offense should be launching 3's. Or as Brick used to like to say "Chuck and duck":)
  15. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    Should I though? If it's so I can understand why people are mad at George Hill and Dave Joerger I'll pass. If it's because the team is young and pretty bad but still fun to watch that could be worth it. Maybe. I'm kindof tired of watching my teams lose though. It's been a long stretch of suck for the Kings, 49ers, and Oakland A's and the "wounds" are almost entirely self-inflicted. At this point even morbid curiosity is losing its appeal.
  16. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Keyboard coaches are convinced that Joerger is a bad coach, that our young guys should be performing at a higher level, that Vlade has crippled the franchise, that the vets are ruining the progress of the young guys, doom and gloom....or in other words, business as usual on the forum. The venom for Hill and Zbo and Joerger is of PDA level. I guess fanatics have to vent.
  17. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    My interest level in the team is sliding. They play like they don;t care. That is the one thing I cannot tolerate in a sports team.
    fansinceday1 and John Galt like this.
  18. fansinceday1

    fansinceday1 Well-Known Member

    I live 6 min from the arena. I've turned down free tickets 3 times already. Teams a drag to watch man. Sports is suppose to be entertaining and the games I'm watching on tv are not entertaining. At least when I'm at home I can get up and go do something constructive. If turning down free tix makes me a bad fan, so be it.
  19. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    How has sitting back and trusting everything the franchise has done been going for you for the last 11 years?

    As far as us keyboard coaches....I've been saying all along that ZBo has been holding Fox back and just recently someone posted the stats and they proved exactly what some of us have been saying this whole time. Some of the criticism is unfounded and overboard but some of it is warranted and some of it is even correct.
    ppine likes this.
  20. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I haven't trusted or been on board with everything the franchise has done. That's a complete error on your part with many members. I hated the Cousins trade but I don't vent about it every other effing post. Quite the contrary, I moved on and just accepted the process going forward. It's a 3 year process or so to get this dialed in but some would rather just crash and burn the place down. It's not for me.
    King Baller and pdxKingsFan like this.
  21. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    Fair enough.
    King Baller likes this.
  22. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    It's the former. My point is that you shouldn't come here proclaiming to only watch one game where George Hill happened to play well and then pretend like the rest of the fan base apparently has issues. Put it this way, he was brought in to be a leader, mentor, and a steadying presence, and has failed on all fronts. He's had some good games, and seems to be playing better recently, but this is a 20MM starting PG giving you games of 0, 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 points, sometimes coupled with only 3 assists or less. He's not making anybody around him better and often during the season has looked like he couldn't care less on the court. Given all this, it's no wonder why many would like him shipped out to give time to Mason and Fox, who have shown promise at times.

    This team is bad and it has alot to do with coaching. Put it this way, Joerger has no better pedigree than Karl, and were it Karl doing these exact things and getting these results many would have called for his head.
  23. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I think Joerger just needs to tell the fellas to launch more threes at this point. Run more plays with the 3 as an option. Hill, Heild, Frank, Bogdan and Skal need more good looks at the 3 IMO.
  24. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    That's why I watch.
    hrdboild likes this.
  25. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    I'm just tired of the nonsense, that's why I don't watch. If I occasionally pop in and watch a game I'm probably going to want to write about what I saw though. That's why we're here right? If George Hill was terrible I would have written about that. I don't think anyone else has issues either, but I do think certain folks could use a little bit of perspective adjustment. George Hill is playing pretty much how he's always played. It's made him a valuable player on 8 playoff teams in 9 years. No he's not a max contract guy. Yes that $20M salary is awfully big this year but it's not hurting the team --- that's money that had to be spent anyway. I've scanned boxscores and seen that he had a bad stretch early in the season which apparently has fixed his reputation as a bum and a malcontent for a lot of people but I'm actually glad George Hill isn't out there taking 25 shots per game trying to prove that he deserves his salary. That would be way more disruptive. And it's not why we signed him in the first place...

    It all just speaks to a disconnect I think between what the team was actually doing this summer and how it was maybe presented. I don't know how it was presented because I'm pretty far removed from any Sacramento Kings related media. I usually end up watching the other team's broadcast and I'm not in Sacramento so I don't know what local reporters are saying. But I get the impression that some people expected a lot more out of this roster than 20-30 wins, a last place finish, and a top draft pick. A lot of money was spent on Zach Randolph, Vince Carter, and George Hill but all of them have 1 or 2 year deals (with the small exception of a $1M buyout for Hill which is only there to help his trade value). That wasn't "let's go for it" money it was a short-term investment so we weren't put into a position where we have to play rookies before they're ready. And to maybe get a trade asset down the road. And to maybe see if some of Popovich's magic pixie dust can indirectly make it to our young players. I kid, but it is actually a big deal that Goerge Hill has played with Hall of Fame players and coaches and played in playoff games with Pop and knows how that winning culture works. That's the biggest chunk of the $20M he's making just for that. And then you have to account for the "Sacramento" overpay because of the small market, poor reputation throughout the league currently, and no shot at the playoffs.

    Yes it probably is a bit of a culture shock for a player who's made the playoffs in 8 out of 9 years of his career to come to a team that hasn't been there in over a decade. Even if he willingly signed up for it, it's going to feel different once you're on the court in a game that counts and realize just how bad your team is going to be for the next 6 months. Yes I'm now officially a George Hill apologist. Truth is, I have no idea what's going on with him-- what he's thinking, whether he's embraced the mentor ship role or not, whether he even has interesting things to say to the young players or not. But I do know it's not his fault the team is terrible. Even if he was playing out of his mind and way above his career averages we're not winning enough games here for it to matter.

    I have even less to say about Coach Joerger because you really do have to watch a lot of games in succession to start to figure out the personality of the coach and the decisions they're making. I don't feel like he's doing a bad job though because I did watch the team last year and in this game I saw a full team actively engaged and competing and working together despite a losing record at the mid-point of the season. At this point in the year George Karl had already lost the team. That was why he needed to go -- players were actually playing worse because of how much they hated the coach. I think this year we're just bad. Do you hate the sky for being blue? That's just what it is. VF21 has the right idea -- you can watch a bad team and still find reasons to enjoy the process. Railing about how much players suck just seems like such a waste of energy. If it makes you that unhappy to watch them, then maybe don't watch? No one is going to revoke your fan license because of it. Just a thought. :)
    dude12, VF21 and Suicide King like this.
  26. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    For a team that ranks so highly on three point percentage, it's at least worth trying to exploit that strength by shooting more of them.
  27. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    The first step in accomplishing this would be for the players to STOP passing up so many open shots.
    VF21 likes this.
  28. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    See that's the thing, he hasn't been playing pretty much how he's always played, despite you repeating it over and over. He is averaging lower than his career averages, and definitely far off his performance last year, while you would expect a player's raw stats to actually be better when he's not deferring to Gordon Hayward or Paul George. He's pretty much averaging the same as Fox at this point, who for a big chunk of the season played very poorly, and still he is getting more minutes than Fox. I'm not sure what there is to defend, the guy was brought in for a certain role, and has underachieved even by his own standards, and has not carried himself well on the court, coaching guys, encouraging them, showing support, cheering off the bench etc. None of this has anything to do with salary. Of course it's not one players' fault that this team is bad, but I don't think anybody is blaming a single party in all of this. In fact, it's not so much blame as it is that a veteran player should not be playing if he's not helping the team to do any better. That's simply it - if you're not helping the young guys get better or play better or even setting an example then why are you stopping them from getting more time? And it actually does matter if he was playing out of his mind because then we could trade him for something more than a bag of chips.

    I simply don't understand how you can keep on defending him when you openly admit to not watching more than a handful of games. It feels like you've simply assumed that a big number of fans here can't be right because you watched one game and disagree with their assessment, and I find that puzzling considering you are typically a very thoughtful and insightful poster.

    It's hard to say whether Karl would have lost this team, because "coach-killer" #1 is no longer around. Nobody can deny that the roster was constructed with nice guys, guys who are willing to learn and vets who regardless of their play are guys who in the past 7 years have carried themselves very well. But if you look purely at rotations, at slow starts, yanking guys, forcing a certain style of play etc, it's hard to make a case that Joerger is any better than Karl, and the fact that this comparison even needs to be made is kind of sad.

    You're absolutely right that we shouldn't be going on about how much a player sucks (although this board had no issue with that when Cousins was losing year after year here and it was every other player and owner and coach's fault). But we should be questioning if coach is putting the team in the best position to succeed, and if a veteran's minutes and play on the court results in hampering the progress of the young guys then we should absolutely be questioning how that player's minutes are warranted.

Share This Page