Joerger and Divac recap the season

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    It depends on when they posted that statement. If it was before the season was over, then it wasn't uninformed.
  2. itzcoatl

    itzcoatl Well-Known Member

    I consider myself pretty informed and that's the first I've heard of any restriction like that. Realgm says it's only protected 1-3 and there appears to be nothing further about it. What am I missing?

    "2017 first round draft pick to Sacramento
    New Orleans' 1st round pick to Sacramento protected for selection(s) 1-3 in 2017, 1 in 2018, 1 in 2019 and 1 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [New Orleans-Sacramento, 2/20/2017]"
  3. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Don't forget Larry Drew, Otis Thorpe, and LaSalle Thompson. As I recall, that team still only won 37 games. It is hard for me to believe that I was 15 that first season.
  4. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    I think he is saying that NO can't get picks 4-9 anymore. They finished 10th, so they can only move into the top 3 or pick 10th or higher.
  5. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    i can't believe vlade accepted protections on the pick(s)
    lwc likes this.
  6. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    We are not good "at retaining talent." We also not that good at drafting talent or developing talent.
    Did anyone notice that yesterday's playoff game between Boston and Chicago featured two Kings point guards leading the way?
  7. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    If you truly believe the spin from Vlade and the PR department that Vivek isn't being consulted (with at least implicit veto power if, not outright asking permission) regarding trades of significance, you don't get how other NBA teams or general business works. The Kings are going to expend two out of their three biggest building blocks over the next 3 years, there is going to be at least a conversation that we plan to do with the owner.

    The successful teams don't have owners totally divorced from the process, instead they ask some follow up questions to assess whether the logic is sound before saying, "Sounds great, thanks" because they know they hired people, who know the details better, and they allow them to do their job.

    The systemic issue with the Kings is the controlling partner has really crummy ideas and a bad management process. At best, he repeatedly shows an inability to defer to his people and at worst meddles.

    I would not consider "all quiet" to reflect change. After basking in the savior of the Kings light for over a year, just about the time of the Malone / Jazz conductor video taped interview, the team clearly helped created a media bubble for our owner. Other than the Karl press conference, they've tried to keep him away from the media. He tried a very small and modest press tour with the opening of the arena and it went badly.

    How the Cousins situation played out and that they requested permission to talk with Heinkie leads me to believe the change hasn't been monumental, merely the amount of coverage regarding his style of management is way down.
  8. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Not sure what you mean about the Pel's and the Lottery. The Pel's are currently at 10, and the only way they can move up from 10 is to move up in the lottery. If a team moves up in the lottery, they'll end up in either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. So if the Pel's were to move up into the top three, we would lose the pick this year since it's top three protected. So that said, we all need to hope that they stay right where they are.
    ockingsfan and Kingster like this.
  9. est.1999

    est.1999 Well-Known Member

    You misread my post. I was quoting a facebooker who thought if the pels picked between 4-10 we'd be good but it's impossible for them to pick between 4 and 9. If it's 3 or lower we lose it.
  10. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Don't forget, the last time Vivek opened his mouth to talk to the media after a prolonged silence, he threw everyone under the bus for his own mistakes and later had to issue an apology.

    And part of why the Cuz trade was such a fiasco, was that Vivek ONLY wanted Hield or Ingram after getting cold feet on the Cuz extension, effectively forcing Vlade's hand at the last minute while simultaneously limiting his options.

    Vivek is like a remorseless junkie that is occasionally forced into rehab, but will always have that itch. His drug of choice? Ruining everything.
  11. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well its hard to ignore the ideas of a man that took his daughters basketball team to a championship. :rolleyes:
    gunks likes this.
  12. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Two guards that didn't fit here. You can't get rid of your cake and eat it too. We develop and tran quite well. We are not going to play next season with our 2015 or 2016 team.
  13. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Why is it that I'm no concerned about the mpact of Ranadive on the effectiveness of the
    FO? They have been working well, good decisions, and I expect that to continue.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  14. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Where do you get this stuff?
    VF21 likes this.
  15. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    IT would have fit just fine. Everyone was just so short sighted that they thought he was the problem. The roster was terrible but you can't tell me that there's no way to win with IT and Cuz as your two best players. Put the right guys around them and we'd be in the playoffs the last few years.

    I loved Rondo's game and he would have fit in fine as well but his penchant for not paying attention on defense and giving up easy baskets to the opposition all game was a killer for us. For a guy who is so smart, he sure did play like a dummy a lot of the time. I partially blame Karl for not holding him more accountable. You saw how effective he was for the Bulls the last couple months.
    ppine likes this.
  16. Spike

    Spike Well-Known Member

    I'd say developing and training, prior to this year, were one of the absolute worst things we've done as a franchise. Our successes have pretty much been weeds growing through the cracks of concrete. Think of it this way: if our rookies were developed by San Antonio, they'd probably still be on their roster and contributing well.

    Now, I definitely believe that we have a good FO that can develop kids. I think Joeger and CO. have shown the ability to do so, even with limited time.
  17. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Also, IT and Rondo are gone like Cuz. You either keep 'em or let 'em go. They are gone. Let's move on.
    King Baller likes this.
  18. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    By "we" who do you mean?

    Because Vlade and Joerger have drafted and developed pretty well in their short stint here.

    Please let go of the past, people.
  19. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    Decent prose but unfortunately that is mostly fiction. Do you post to Reddit?

    You should post some links to some of your other writing samples.
  20. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    If you want to move on, then don't contribute to the conversation about them in the first place. Sorry but it's always been a pet peeve of mine when someone talks about a certain subject and then tells you to move on when you respond to it.
  21. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

  22. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    You get the backhanded compliment award! ;) But no, I don't post on Reddit.

    Here is a link to the much circulated Vivek article/apology story:

    All my stuff RE: The Cousins trade was gleaned via tweets and twitters the day it went down (a dark day which I put up there with C-Webbs knee and "the shot") + post trade rumor mongering (via "multiple sauces")....So yeah, it should be taken with a grain of salt, but as an unabashed Vivek basher I'm generally salty enough for such hearsay.

    This post is also @pshn80, I haven't forgotten about you buddy!

    Public service announcement: as a Kings fan who is barely tuning in to the playoffs (wake me up in time for the Warriors vs Cavs finals), all my posts from here until the draft should be read as your general TDOS lunacy. :p
    VF21, bajaden and King Baller like this.
  23. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    Because it doesn't exist.
  24. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    Don't make me ask Jeremy to open up a metaphysics forum!
    Warhawk, The Hammer and Suicide King like this.
  25. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    I apogize. It does have the effect you describe. And it is on record here that I seldom look back. And also my feeling that most all trades, signing, draft selections are made for good reason at the time. So that leaves me at odds with most on here. And all of that makes many postings hard to read and frustrating. So at some points I can't keep my mouth shut.
    ESP47 likes this.
  26. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    What, is that a new way to work out? I hate when you use those big words...:eek:
    pshn80 likes this.
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    If I might enter my thoughts into this conversation, I would suggest to people that it might be a good idea to separate past history into appropriate parts. There's a tendency to lump all the sins of the past into one bucket, and then project what our future might be, based on that. Vlade, and his front office is only responsible for what occurred under his watch. He had nothing to do with any previous decisions that were made. And while it's fashionable to commiserate endlessly over old wounds, they have nothing to do with the current direction of the team.

    I'm not saying that Vlade hasn't made some mistakes. I'm saying that he's only responsible for his mistakes. The biggest mistake this franchise has made, in general, is refusing to actually start a rebuild. People refer to our rebuild, but in my opinion, it didn't actually start until Cousins was traded. Not because Cousins had to be traded to start the rebuild, but because after the trade, we finally had no choice. It should have started 5 or 6 years ago, when we first obtained Cousins. Instead, we kept applying bandaids and trying to win now.

    So we put off the inevitable in favor of PR, based on false promises. To what end? To be lucky enough to get our heads handed to us in the first round like Portland. All that is, is feel good for a moment crap. It's not a long range plan that will sustain you as a playoff team with championship potential. That doesn't happen overnight. Long term sustainability comes from long term planning, and long term development. And the longer you put that off, the longer its going to take.

    Vlade finally has the team headed in the right direction. Whether he'll make all the right moves or not is anyone's guess. But so far, it's not looking bad. For the first time in a long time we have some leadership with a plan other than, lets win now! That's a catchy phrase, but it's not a plan.
  28. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Well-Known Member

    Why am I having flashbacks of the Q&A with PDA that centered around the direction of the franchise? Am i experiencing PTSD as a result of repeated exposures to poor basketball decisions on behalf of Kings management?
  29. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Whether the answer is yes or no there is still the need to get over it. Good luck!
    VF21 likes this.
  30. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Vlade is only responsible for the decisions he made himself. I agree with that. I also agree with the idea, that long term sustainability comes from long term planning and long term development. I even understand the idea of a Cousins trade as the start of a long term rebuild to avoid the treadmill a lot of the NBA teams are caught in.

    The problem with all that is, that Vlade didn't show any interest in long term strategies so far. In 2 years he constantly changed course.
    He supported Karl first, wanted to fire him mid season and in the end still kept him until the season ended. He drafted to win now one season and drafted prospects the season after. He didn't trade Cousins and Rudy when it would have made the most sense, but basically put himself under immense pressure by keeping them and building a short term figleaf roster of middling vets around them and pretending to try to win now, only to back off this strategy once again with the deadline approaching. He even kept most middling vets around after he decided to blow it up for reasons, that are difficult to understand.

    We all agree, that developing longterm sustainability is the key for the Kings to become a respected NBA franchise once again.
    Most of us even agree, that the draft is our best chance to build a winner.
    But I simply doubt, that Vlade is the guy capable of developing the longterm sustainability we need. His body of work as a Kings FO guy simply doesn't convince me. He doesn't come across like a guy calmly following a well thought out longterm strategy.

    Of course Vlade is beloved by Kings fans and we have to keep in mind, that he did make some good decisions in his tenure. And when it's all said and done we won't change a thing by posting our opinions, so it's much easier and more relaxing to simply give Vlade the benefit of the doubt and try to be optimistic about the future of the franchise. Being optimistic keeps the fun of watching Kings basketball alive.
    But for me this somewhat emotional reasoning just isn't enough to feel comfortable with Vlade as the head of our current FO.
    fansinceday1, jcassio and Čarolija like this.

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