Jimmer Grades vs. Warriors 11/02/2013 (or Jimmermaniacs unite!)

[mac]

That we couldn't even get a 1st round pick for him leading up to the draft when we were trying to move up tells me the entire league disagrees with your stance, not just Kings fans.

First step for Jimmer to get regular mins for another team is someone has to actually want him. Unfortunately for his fan club, there's zero evidence anyone is willing to give up even a 1st rounder for him.

There's also the issue that this isn't some conspiracy against Jimmer from the Kings organization. The last regime under Petrie/Smart and the current under PDA/Malone, two completely different regimes with no connection both feel the same.

You have to admit though - Jimmer was the better player (than MT) in preseason. I linked a podcast somewhere earlier in this thread and it was quite clear that everyone felt that Jimmer had outplayed MT in preseason. But preseason is preseason, frankly it's meaningless. Moving on to the season thus far, has MT really shown anything that warrants him being the starter but Jimmer the bench warmer? The way I see it - Jimmer seems to have made significant strides in his game. Maybe not significant enough, but what I feel is that MT doesn't have a place on our team. His attitude, his lack of defense, his inability to play within the offense etc. The difference between him and Jimmer is that teams WOULD give us a 1st round pick. MT does have trade value, and teams already know what he can do. If he's not in our long term plans (as I feel he shouldn't be) then IMO we should at least give Jimmer a little more than 3 minutes in 4 games, of which 2 have been partial or full blowouts, since we should be seeing what we can get out of him.

But as far as not playing Jimmer = tanking or Jimmer is an all star etc that's just ... way way out there. I just want us to give him a shot.

 

[Padrino]

You have to admit though - Jimmer was the better player (than MT) in preseason. I linked a podcast somewhere earlier in this thread and it was quite clear that everyone felt that Jimmer had outplayed MT in preseason. But preseason is preseason, frankly it's meaningless. Moving on to the season thus far, has MT really shown anything that warrants him being the starter but Jimmer the bench warmer? The way I see it - Jimmer seems to have made significant strides in his game. Maybe not significant enough, but what I feel is that MT doesn't have a place on our team. His attitude, his lack of defense, his inability to play within the offense etc. The difference between him and Jimmer is that teams WOULD give us a 1st round pick. MT does have trade value, and teams already know what he can do. If he's not in our long term plans (as I feel he shouldn't be) then IMO we should at least give Jimmer a little more than 3 minutes in 4 games, of which 2 have been partial or full blowouts, since we should be seeing what we can get out of him.

But as far as not playing Jimmer = tanking or Jimmer is an all star etc that's just ... way way out there. I just want us to give him a shot.

thornton's dreadfully inconsistent play has obviously raised eyebrows among fans. i don't know what any of us truly expected, but i'm not sure anybody thought he'd be trying to play himself out of the starting lineup so soon. so why isn't jimmer receiving any minutes at all, given the scattered play of every kings' guard outside of isaiah thomas? is jimmer really that undersized, that unathletic, that unable to defend, that unable to dribble? i certainly think so, but not everybody agrees with me, overzealous jimmerfans aside. however, coach definitively labeled a 3-PG rotation or a 3-SG rotation "impossible," and i find such talk refreshing after keith smart's "you get minutes!! and you get minutes!! everybody gets minutes!!" approach, even though i believe malone's 10-man rotation is still one player too many. that said, jimmer is caught between positions. he's not a PG with vasquez's proven ability to make plays for others. he doesn't bring the unrepentant energy or quickness of isaiah thomas, and he's not the future at starting SG a la ben mclemore, so he gets squeezed out of the rotation through no fault of his own...

in my estimation, the new regime is simply hoping and praying that 1) greivis vasquez finds a groove so they can keep bringing isaiah thomas off the bench, where they desperately need scoring in the absence of carl landry, and 2) marcus thornton showcases just enough punch in a starting role to bring back something, anything of value via trade. my guess is that malone is quite satisfied with bringing mclemore off the bench in the meantime because the front office intends to move thornton before the trade deadline, which will allow mclemore to slide into the starting SG position thereafter, for better or worse. if thornton is, indeed, traded before the deadline, and jimmer isn't, i'd expect jimmer to get some relief minutes off the bench in the second half of the season, simply because the backcourt will be considerably less crowded in that event (provided the kings don't trade thornton for yet another guard)...

 

[t-rex]

You have to admit though - Jimmer was the better player (than MT) in preseason. I linked a podcast somewhere earlier in this thread and it was quite clear that everyone felt that Jimmer had outplayed MT in preseason. But preseason is preseason, frankly it's meaningless. Moving on to the season thus far, has MT really shown anything that warrants him being the starter but Jimmer the bench warmer? The way I see it - Jimmer seems to have made significant strides in his game. Maybe not significant enough, but what I feel is that MT doesn't have a place on our team. His attitude, his lack of defense, his inability to play within the offense etc. The difference between him and Jimmer is that teams WOULD give us a 1st round pick. MT does have trade value, and teams already know what he can do. If he's not in our long term plans (as I feel he shouldn't be) then IMO we should at least give Jimmer a little more than 3 minutes in 4 games, of which 2 have been partial or full blowouts, since we should be seeing what we can get out of him.

But as far as not playing Jimmer = tanking or Jimmer is an all star etc that's just ... way way out there. I just want us to give him a shot.

Jimmer won't admit this publicly, but privately, I think he's already moved on from the Kings. Maybe he wanted to stay before the season started, but definitely not now. Not after management has moved on too. He'll be the good soldier, give his teammates a high five, practice hard, etc. etc. Meanwhile, mentally, I'm sure he's already planning his future somewhere else. So does management get whatever little they can for him in a trade or does it last until free agency this summer? That is the big question. Meanwhile the kings may be stuck with Marcus Thornton next year also at 8 mil/per. Let that sink in for a while.

 

[Maverick]

I don't think there is any team in the league that would give a first round pick for MT. I don't think he can be moved with his horrendous contract that way overvalues him.

So I think there is zero chance that Jimmer finds minutes after MT is traded. Because MT won't be traded. Jimmer actually has value as an expiring contract. Regardless of his playing ability. Much more likely that Jimmer is traded.

The only scenario where I see Jimmer getting minutes is a serious injury to one of the top 4 guards.

 

[t-rex]

Jimmer actually has value as an expiring contract.

The only scenario where I see Jimmer getting minutes is a serious injury to one of the top 4 guards.

Jimmer would lose his trade value if he was seriously injured. So I agree, he's sitting until he's traded.

 

[Glenn]

Jimmer won't admit this publicly, but privately, I think he's already moved on from the Kings. Maybe he wanted to stay before the season started, but definitely not now. Not after management has moved on too. He'll be the good soldier, give his teammates a high five, practice hard, etc. etc. Meanwhile, mentally, I'm sure he's already planning his future somewhere else. So does management get whatever little they can for him in a trade or does it last until free agency this summer? That is the big question. Meanwhile the kings may be stuck with Marcus Thornton next year also at 8 mil/per. Let that sink in for a while.

If Jimmer has already checked out on the Kings and is picking up his checks, he may find that no one wants him. He should be preparing for his next gig by learning a foreign language. I don't believe that Jimmer is of that mind set but if he is, he may have to scratch off "NBA" as a future employer.

I wouldn't get a little for Jimmer if the bigger thing is the cap space he is worth. We have far too many low skilled players to keep fooling around with these low to mid level players if we expect to improve as a team.

Thornton's salary seemed a little high when he got the contract but I don't remember any hue and cry from the intelligentsia on this forum. It seemed reasonable at the time. That is how far he has fallen and I hope it is a measure of his potential for this year. What I find remarkable is if he was hitting on all cylinders, he would make a nice safety valve for Cuz when he gets trapped down low by a swarm of opposition. I wouldn't give up on him unless winning wasn't a high priority. The potential is there and I am hoping the myriad of coaches that we have know what is wrong.

Great notes Padrino. You have a great skill in putting into words what I know a lot of us are thinking. I see my thoughts in beautiful prose. It is great to be able to analyze the game but to be able to put into words what is rummaging around inside your brain is a remarkable feat. Next time do a note as a poem.

 

[cuad]

Check out what I found on Youtube.

Look at that handle. Listen to the oohs and aahs from the crowd...BEAST

 

[Tetsujin]

Check out what I found on Youtube.

Look at that handle. Listen to the oohs and aahs from the crowd...BEAST

Even if that's the only highlight of his season, Jimmer's still a frontrunner for MVP.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Check out what I found on Youtube.

Look at that handle. Listen to the oohs and aahs from the crowd...BEAST

The funny part is that someone felt inclined to put that on Youtube. LOL

 

[rainmaker]

thornton's dreadfully inconsistent play has obviously raised eyebrows among fans. i don't know what any of us truly expected, but i'm not sure anybody thought he'd be trying to play himself out of the starting lineup so soon. so why isn't jimmer receiving any minutes at all, given the scattered play of every kings' guard outside of isaiah thomas? is jimmer really that undersized, that unathletic, that unable to defend, that unable to dribble? i certainly think so, but not everybody agrees with me, overzealous jimmerfans aside. however, coach definitively labeled a 3-PG rotation or a 3-SG rotation "impossible," and i find such talk refreshing after keith smart's "you get minutes!! and you get minutes!! everybody gets minutes!!" approach, even though i believe malone's 10-man rotation is still one player too many. that said, jimmer is caught between positions. he's not a PG with vasquez's proven ability to make plays for others. he doesn't bring the unrepentant energy or quickness of isaiah thomas, and he's not the future at starting SG a la ben mclemore, so he gets squeezed out of the rotation through no fault of his own...

.

That's the thing, with tighter rotations players won't be simply given a shot here and there, unless at the end of blowout games in garbage time which is hardly an indicator of what a player can do.

I don't see Jimmer as a PG. Not at this level. If he'll succeed at this level it's in a Reddick type role. Looking at our current roster barring any trades, the only way I see Jimmer breaking into the rotation is by jumping MT in the pecking order, meaning for at least a decent stretch of games MT doesn't play, isn't in the rotation. It'd be MLM starting, Jimmer backing him up and MT out of the rotation. Does anyone think that's all that likely? It's not impossible and I don't know what exactly Malone is thinking or considering going forward, but surely it's not likely. But who knows, MT is playing like complete crap.

But something I don't see is Jimmer becoming a full time backup PG for us. Welcome to the life of a shortened, consistent rotation. It's tougher to break in. It doesn't change nightly. Jimmer will have to be second choice on a nightly occasion and bump others out of the rotation all together.

I'll add, I think there tends to be a misconception around here that when a player is playing poorly for us we can just trade him. I ask, who would be willing to trade for MT right now? I haven't heard a single rumor of a single team interested in him since he was traded to us. Now he's playing the worst ball of his career. He's not an expiring. Moving him is tough in reality unless we take on an equally bad contract in return. It looks more and more that his great half season with us was more a mistake and a flash in a pan streak rather than something anyone can bank on him reproducing. At that point he looked like he might be more a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford type. Now he looks more a poor man's Nick Young, and there's not many teams interested in a guy like Nick Young, and MT has a worse salary.

 

[Chupacabra]

I'm not so convinced that thornton is playing like crap outside of a couple poor shooting performances. I think we're seeing a decline in thornton's production because there's actually an offensive system being implemented, all be it a poorly executed one.

 

[Chubbs]

That we couldn't even get a 1st round pick for him leading up to the draft when we were trying to move up tells me the entire league disagrees with your stance, not just Kings fans.

First step for Jimmer to get regular mins for another team is someone has to actually want him. Unfortunately for his fan club, there's zero evidence anyone is willing to give up even a 1st rounder for him.

There's also the issue that this isn't some conspiracy against Jimmer from the Kings organization. The last regime under Petrie/Smart and the current under PDA/Malone, two completely different regimes with no connection both feel the same.

They were trying for a first rounder? Wow. They had to know no team would do that, right?

Personally, I was hoping f

That's the thing, with tighter rotations players won't be simply given a shot here and there, unless at the end of blowout games in garbage time which is hardly an indicator of what a player can do.

I don't see Jimmer as a PG. Not at this level. If he'll succeed at this level it's in a Reddick type role. Looking at our current roster barring any trades, the only way I see Jimmer breaking into the rotation is by jumping MT in the pecking order, meaning for at least a decent stretch of games MT doesn't play, isn't in the rotation. It'd be MLM starting, Jimmer backing him up and MT out of the rotation. Does anyone think that's all that likely? It's not impossible and I don't know what exactly Malone is thinking or considering going forward, but surely it's not likely. But who knows, MT is playing like complete crap.

But something I don't see is Jimmer becoming a full time backup PG for us. Welcome to the life of a shortened, consistent rotation. It's tougher to break in. It doesn't change nightly. Jimmer will have to be second choice on a nightly occasion and bump others out of the rotation all together.

I'll add, I think there tends to be a misconception around here that when a player is playing poorly for us we can just trade him. I ask, who would be willing to trade for MT right now? I haven't heard a single rumor of a single team interested in him since he was traded to us. Now he's playing the worst ball of his career. He's not an expiring. Moving him is tough in reality unless we take on an equally bad contract in return. It looks more and more that his great half season with us was more a mistake and a flash in a pan streak rather than something anyone can bank on him reproducing. At that point he looked like he might be more a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford type. Now he looks more a poor man's Nick Young, and there's not many teams interested in a guy like Nick Young, and MT has a worse salary.

I'm with you on the "he sucks, trade him" response of so many people. It just doesn't work that way. I mentioned this during the summer looking at the roster. There are few people on the roster anyone else would want. Thornton on a good day. Maybe some other guys. But none are fetching anything in return. That's the bottomline. When I hear people talk about jimmer for a 1st round pick, I really have to question their grip on reality. Does anyone think if that'd been offered it wouldn't be done already? Or MT for anything? JT for anything? Those guys teams want on the cheap. For about 2 million a year. That's not what they make.

 

[treach1976]

Jimmer is stuck where he is for the time being.... no team wants to risk giving away too much for him now when they can get him really cheap in the summer...

The Kings value him just enough as an emergency back-up to not let him go for peanuts right now. If they really thought he was a bad as some people on this board think, he would be in the D-League or cut altogether. But in the meantime then new system Malone has put in place doesn't allow minutes for Jimmer because Malone is staying true to a short rotation philosophy.

I'm curious as to what most people find most likely?

1) Jimmer gets minimal minutes this season, Kings don't make or match an offer at end of season, and someone else picks him up next year
2) Jimmer is traded for a pick this season or part of bigger deal
3) Jimmer is playing overseas next year
4) Someone else is traded (e.g., MT/IT/GV) and Jimmer cracks the rotation and plays an improved game over last year

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

part of a deal or in a foreign league

 

[storisaurus]

How long will MT, BM, and GV continue to get free passes? MT literally does nothing else other than score, and he even does that poorly. BM is a rookie, but Jimmer certainly wasn't allocated this type of egregious play. GV has 8 turnovers and all I hear is he's recovering from injury. BM is a rookie and some of you think he has star potential, so I kind of understand why you excuse his miserable play. However, the excuses for MT have ran out...put the better player in the game and play with some integrity.

 

[The Hammer]

How long will MT, BM, and GV continue to get free passes? MT literally does nothing else other than score, and he even does that poorly. BM is a rookie, but Jimmer certainly wasn't allocated this type of egregious play. GV has 8 turnovers and all I hear is he's recovering from injury. BM is a rookie and some of you think he has star potential, so I kind of understand why you excuse his miserable play. However, the excuses for MT have ran out...put the better player in the game and play with some integrity.

You've become a parody of yourself. It's hilarious.

 

[t-rex]

I'm a jimmer supporter but I I was hoping this thread would die. I've come to the realization that jimmer will not play for the kings. Just trade or release him already. It's a distraction although no fault of his own. Why are we holding on to him? I think if he was released the team would play more loose. Especially MT.

 

[VF21]

How long will MT, BM, and GV continue to get free passes? MT literally does nothing else other than score, and he even does that poorly. BM is a rookie, but Jimmer certainly wasn't allocated this type of egregious play. GV has 8 turnovers and all I hear is he's recovering from injury. BM is a rookie and some of you think he has star potential, so I kind of understand why you excuse his miserable play. However, the excuses for MT have ran out...put the better player in the game and play with some integrity.

You know, I found myself wondering almost the same thing, except I wouldn't add the stupid part about integrity...

There has to be something else going on. Every night a perfectly healthy Jimmer sits on the bench while Marcus does little (except for one night) to merit seeing court time. I know it's been de rigueur around here to dump on Fredette, but this is now approaching Twilight Zone mystery status to me. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer would have been against the Detroit defense, but there's part of the problem. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer is in ANY situation because he hasn't been allowed to step on the court.

I don't like the fanboy exaggerations, but I do understand the frustration. Ben is hopefully part of our future, as is Greivis. They need to get the minutes. But Thornton? I'm over him and would like to see Jimmer get another chance to prove himself. But, having said that, I fully expect to be overwhelmed with reasons why it won't work by my fellow Kings fans.

 

[storisaurus]

You know, I found myself wondering almost the same thing, except I'd add the stupid part about integrity...

There has to be something else going on. Every night a perfectly healthy Jimmer sits on the bench while Marcus does little (except for one night) to merit seeing court time. I know it's been de rigueur around here to dump on Fredette, but this is now approaching Twilight Zone mystery status to me. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer would have been against the Detroit defense, but there's part of the problem. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer is in ANY situation because he hasn't been allowed to step on the court.

I don't like the fanboy exaggerations, but I do understand the frustration. Ben is hopefully part of our future, as is Greivis. They need to get the minutes. But Thornton? I'm over him and would like to see Jimmer get another chance to prove himself. But, having said that, I fully expect to be overwhelmed with reasons why it won't work by my fellow Kings fans.

BM..completely understandable. GV...kind of understandable, but the hype over him averaging 9 assists a game on a 27-55 team is somewhat funny to me. MT...there is no rhyme or reason as to why you play him over Jimmer. I mean, if you're looking to trade him to some sucker, playing him HURTS your cause because he is not good. At least let the mystery of that old "Bayou bomber" thing stay in the minds of front offices.

Ah well, just venting. Sorry if I offend anyone, that's not my MO.

 

[Npliam]

You know, I found myself wondering almost the same thing, except I wouldn't add the stupid part about integrity...

There has to be something else going on. Every night a perfectly healthy Jimmer sits on the bench while Marcus does little (except for one night) to merit seeing court time. I know it's been de rigueur around here to dump on Fredette, but this is now approaching Twilight Zone mystery status to me. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer would have been against the Detroit defense, but there's part of the problem. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer is in ANY situation because he hasn't been allowed to step on the court.

I don't like the fanboy exaggerations, but I do understand the frustration. Ben is hopefully part of our future, as is Greivis. They need to get the minutes. But Thornton? I'm over him and would like to see Jimmer get another chance to prove himself. But, having said that, I fully expect to be overwhelmed with reasons why it won't work by my fellow Kings fans.

I really don't feel that Jimmer has been given a legitimate shot at playing consistent minutes. Last year when he got minutes is was with a different lineup every time and usually with IT and no offense was run at all.

I know some posters here think I am just a Jimmer fan boy and will dismiss anything I say because of that but I think Jimmer can play if given the chance.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

If I had to bet..and we were given the opportunity to find out with equal playing time, I would place my bet on Jimmer bringing more production than Thornton, at this point.

It seems we will never find out though, since it appears a decision to not invest any more time in him has been made. I would have rather seen this decision made with a couple other players first, before Jimmer. Lets stop wasting his time already, if that's the case, and let him move on with his next career move

 

[The_Jamal]

Count me in for team Jimmer. This seasons is about finding future core players right? Well, Jimmer just happens to have a skill that we absolutely suck at: spot-up shooting. We know what we have in Thornton. And it is almost certain that he will not be with us when his contract is up.

You don't give Jimmer minutes at the expense of Ben, but I think you can very easily fit him in for 10-15 mpg and see what he can do.

 

[mac]

You know, I found myself wondering almost the same thing, except I wouldn't add the stupid part about integrity...

There has to be something else going on. Every night a perfectly healthy Jimmer sits on the bench while Marcus does little (except for one night) to merit seeing court time. I know it's been de rigueur around here to dump on Fredette, but this is now approaching Twilight Zone mystery status to me. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer would have been against the Detroit defense, but there's part of the problem. I'm not sure how effective Jimmer is in ANY situation because he hasn't been allowed to step on the court.

I don't like the fanboy exaggerations, but I do understand the frustration. Ben is hopefully part of our future, as is Greivis. They need to get the minutes. But Thornton? I'm over him and would like to see Jimmer get another chance to prove himself. But, having said that, I fully expect to be overwhelmed with reasons why it won't work by my fellow Kings fans.

And lets not forget that Jimmer DID outplay MT in preseason. Not sure if you caught the podcast I linked, but it seems that that was very much the general consensus. Perhaps John Salmons sold one of his many incriminating photos of the Kings FO to MT

 

[Capt. Factorial]

There has to be something else going on. Every night a perfectly healthy Jimmer sits on the bench while Marcus does little (except for one night) to merit seeing court time. I know it's been de rigueur around here to dump on Fredette, but this is now approaching Twilight Zone mystery status to me.

So how do you explain it? A showcase for MT?

 

[sqwalk]

I'm as confused as anyone. I keep thinking to myself, is Jimmer really that bad that he can't even steal Thorton's minutes?

I don't know what's going on. He totally outplayed MT in the pre-season and MT has continued to play terrible so far this season (except for say 1 game). Listening to the podcast it sounded like even the players hinted that Jimmer had the better pre-season.

I mean who knows if Jimmer can make any difference at all. It's possible that he wouldn't, so what does it matter? But that's the problem, we just don't know for sure if he can make a slight impact or not because he hasn't been given a chance in Malone's system - except for some pre-season games, which he looked comfortable and played pretty well for the most part. We do know one thing though, MT clearly isn't helping.

I don't know how Jimmer is handling this, especially after having such high hopes of a new start going into this season.

A few gams ago, Malone was so upset about the negative attitude, lack of hustle, and selfishness of some of the players (mostly MT), but even with that, Jimmer still can't crack the rotation?

All I can think of is that the Kings have definitely written off Jimmer, and since they can't write off MT because of his contract, so they elect to play him instead in hopes that his play will improve

Still, the whole thing is a mystery to me.

 

[treach1976]

All I can think of is that the Kings have definitely written off Jimmer, and since they can't write off MT because of his contract, so they elect to play him instead in hopes that his play will improve

I think it's sort of this, but also, they are actively trying to move him. Thornton is toxic in the league right now (attitude/skill). If they play Jimmer and he gets hurt or can't shake off the rust over a few games his value goes down. I doubt he sees minutes outside of that situation. I think the 20 minutes he got a few games ago was simply to make a point to MT - sucks for Jimmer.

 

[Bricklayer]

Look, here is the bottom line: Jimmer Fredette will never be a major player in this league. Everybody but his partisans know that.
Marcus Thornton HAS been a major player in this league.

Ben McLemore COULD be a major player in this league.

Throw in a Thornton benching completely eliminating any chance of moving his salary before he becomes an ender, and its pretty obvious why we continue to play guys who we at least have hope could morph into major league players.

None of the above denies the possibility Jimmer could be more effective than either at the moment. Indeed, they have both sucked badly enough that there are probably members of this board who could be more effective at the moment. But if the argument is you are looking to find players long term, to find a core of legitimate NBA starters/major rotation players, well Jimmer isn't, and won't be. Marcus was, and at least theoretically could be again. We flat out need Ben to become one. So Jimmer is as much a victim of the process as anyone else. On a team desperate to win the next game, who knows, maybe we just throw him out there in desperation and hope. On a team trying to find the guys who are going to be part of the future, Jimmer already isn't, so its hardly a surprise the guys who could be are getting their chances to work it out.

 

[mac]

Look, here is the bottom line: Jimmer Fredette will never be a major player in this league. Everybody but his partisans know that.
Marcus Thornton HAS been a major player in this league.

Ben McLemore COULD be a major player in this league.

Throw in a Thornton benching completely eliminating any chance of moving his salary before he becomes an ender, and its pretty obvious why we continue to play guys who we at least have hope could morph into major league players.

None of the above denies the possibility Jimmer could be more effective than either at the moment. Indeed, they have both sucked badly enough that there are probably members of this board who could be more effective at the moment. But if the argument is you are looking to find players long term, to find a core of legitimate NBA starters/major rotation players, well Jimmer isn't, and won't be. Marcus was, and at least theoretically could be again. We flat out need Ben to become one. So Jimmer is as much a victim of the process as anyone else. On a team desperate to win the next game, who knows, maybe we just throw him out there in desperation and hope. On a team trying to find the guys who are going to be part of the future, Jimmer already isn't, so its hardly a surprise the guys who could be are getting their chances to work it out.

Well he might not be a major player but he could be a valuable role player, something we seem to have lacked for a long time. Eventually it's also going to be MT or Ben in some regard. Neither of them is going to become a mere role player for us in the long run. I'm also not interested in has-beens that don't play defense or help the team to win. MT is not a legit 2nd or 3rd option on our team (we already have IT as a efficient scorer who doesn't play D), and given that we've got Ben and MT has currently decided to check himself out of every game I see no point in insisting on playing him in the hope that he gets his game back. In other words I see a greater possibility for Jimmer to be part of our future as a role player than I do Thornton.

 

[King Baller]

Look, here is the bottom line: Jimmer Fredette will never be a major player in this league. Everybody but his partisans know that.
Marcus Thornton HAS been a major player in this league.

Unless Jimmer gets a steady diet of minutes in the rotation we will never know what kind of player he can be in the NBA. In preseason this year he looked better than MT.

How can anyone draw a conclusion on Jimmer from what we have seen THIS year? It would seem those writing Jimmer off are basing it on previous years performances.

KB

 

[Bricklayer]

Unless Jimmer gets a steady diet of minutes in the rotation we will never know what kind of player he can be in the NBA. In preseason this year he looked better than MT.

How can anyone draw a conclusion on Jimmer from what we have seen THIS year? It would seem those writing Jimmer off are basing it on previous years performances.

KB

When Jimmer was born 6'2" and relatively (to NBA athletes) slow footed that absolutely told you exactly what he could or could not be as an NBA SG. You can feel free to name all the major NBA guys matching that description.

So that left the PG position. And it turned out, not terribly surprisingly really, that he did not have the handle nor quickness for that.

And so he is what he is. Why people fight so hard against it is a complete mystery. The PG/SG tweener is perhaps the single most common college to pro failure in the league. Every year a new crop come in. In college they are SGs. In the pros they are just too small to continue, so they have to try to shift over. Most cannot. Its not in any way shocking or unlikely. Jimmer might be able to wrangle a career out of the NBA, but it will almost certainly be as a specialist. Guys like Steve Kerr or Scott Brooks managed to hang on for years with similar resumes.