It's hard to be a Kings fan... (split)

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Padrino, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Padrino

    Padrino Well-Known Member

    It's been some time since I popped into the Kings Rap forum. I departed KF.com in a huff when Demarcus was traded, and I still maintain my insistence that it was an awful deal that would haunt this franchise for the next half-decade as they struggle to replace his talent. But I still pop into the forum every now and again to see what's what, despite the fact that I've basically left my fandom at the door. Out of sheer morbid curiosity, I tuned in for my first Kings game of the season on Thursday, just in time to watch Fox go down with an injury. Good timing, right? ;)

    I'm not sure what this team has on its hands. There are a few interesting pieces, but what are they going to amount to? Are there any clear starters amongst these young fellas? I hadn't watched any games before Thursday, so I don't have much insight into De'Aaron Fox, but it seems like he hasn't impressed thus far. There's time, of course, and point guards are often slow to develop. I'm glad to see that the losses are piling up for the Kings, though. They'll need another very high draft pick just for the sake of hoping that this roster might become competitive someday. Good on all of you who've managed to stick around. Seems a bit miserable in Kingsland these days. Then again, when has it not been so, apart from a few short years of glory at the turn of the millennium?
    kingsfan1984, andjel, 206Fan and 6 others like this.
  2. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Good to see you Padrino!

    DeAaron Fox has an incredible amount of talent that he's got to grow into. He's young, really young. If you decide to watch another game, watch Frank Mason and Bogdan Bodganovic. :)
  3. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    I've had a realization, and I almost don't even want to admit it. I've been holding off on posting this for a few days, but it's true so here goes. Don't throw too many rotten tomatoes at me.... I still harbor a seed of resentment against the team because of the DMC trade. & I'll always hold it against and never truly like Buddy Hield because of it, even though I know it isn't at all his fault and it's completely irrational. Then with the majority of the other young guys fizzling (if not fizzling, certainly not showing any superstar flashes) the game's just aren't fun to watch right now. I don't care about ZBo or Hill leading the team to a bad win here and there against a terrible Phoenix team without their only good player.

    I'm still a Kings fan, I'm not going to go root for another team (Pelicans certainly have my interest though), but as I said in the game thread.... My team/fan relationship is going through a bit of a rough patch.
    sono likes this.
  4. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I split this off from the last grades/post game discussion thread because I think it's separate and distinct. Call it a catharsis or a soul-cleansing or a confessional. :)
    SLAB likes this.
  5. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Padrino’s right about needing the losses so we can improve our roster with a high draft pick next year. We need to stop fooling around and make it happen!
    We've got some interesting pieces that could go either way. WCS for example. Fox for example. It’s tough for many of us to keep the faith that we’ll be relevant again some day, and hopefully in just 2-3 years. I have to regularly remind myself to keep my expectations in check. But when they are in check, it’s not hard to enjoy watching these guys who have some talent and don’t give away 8-10 possessions a game arguing calls or non-calls. That Sort of game just became intolerable for me.
    kingsfan1984, 206Fan and King Baller like this.
  6. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I was shocked by the Boogie trade as well. Truth is the Kings had done very little with the Big Fella in the way of winning. So as I reflected on it I figured why not set the Big Man free and hit the reset button.

    I will stay a Kings Fan but I will watch the NBA at Large. Currently I am fascinated by the Nets. They traded their future away on Celtics castoffs. Now after that failure they are rebuilding by trading for other teams failed high draft picks, since they have no draft picks of their own in the short term. Can Russel, Okafor, Staukas and crew make a relevant NBA team? Probably not but hey they have Quincy Acy:)
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  7. Nokidding

    Nokidding Active Member

    It's really not hard, it's just entertainment with grown men playing a kids game at a extraordinary level. it's a great temporary escape from reality watching something we enjoy.

    We might get frustrated by how the team plays or who the team signs/certain player traits/habits but there is literally nothing hard about it. The great thing about it is you are one player/coach/trade/pick away from being relevant really quick.
    kingsfan1984 and King Baller like this.
  8. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    I'm honestly jealous of the Nets. They sent their entire future away in one of the worst trades ever, but they somehow have acquired better young talent the Kings. I know I'd rather have Russell over any current King (not exaggerating even a little), and Okafor is another intriguing piece, though I know less about his game.

    Why can't the Kings get guys like Russell and Okafor, who were clearly on the outs with their respective teams? :(
  9. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    It definitely is hard. Being a Kings fan is not for the faint of heart or the weak minded. The two things that would make me lose interest in this franchise would be if Vivek turned into a cheap owner unwilling to spend and take risks to get better and another decade of botched draft picks that lead into another decade of irrelevance.
    206Fan likes this.
  10. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    If one of the kids starts stringing 20 point games together, it might pique my interest...

    But in the meantime this team is giving me ZERO reasons to get excited. As others have mentioned, Z-bo beating up The Suns just doesn't do it for me.
    kingsfan1984, 206Fan and SLAB like this.
  11. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn’t have minded taking a look at Okafor or Noel..
    206Fan and SLAB like this.
  12. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    We're like the Cleveland Browns of the NBA. Through the years, The Kings have drafted poorly year after year or just have had incredibly bad luck in their draft selection process. Hopefully, at least 1 of these young players ends up being at least a borderline All Star. Please, for the love of God, at least 1. I was exasperated that the Kings waited so long to trade Cousins. Literally, a year too late. They would have gotten back a lot more, if they pulled the trigger earlier. On the other hand, I love Cousins. I, also watch the Pels now A lot more, just to see Cousins go off. His passion(Which is uncontrollable at times) really was special to witness most of the time. I am really hoping he ends up in a winning situation. Whether it's with the Pels of somewhere else. He is a genuine person in the NBA personality landscape.
  13. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    I'm one of those happy we finally moved on from Cousins. Two years too late if you asked me. It is slightly frustrating that our young guys are not being featured, and those playing well aren't given more opportunity. But I am willing to wait till the end of the season to see if Vlade and Joerger were right in their "innovative" approach. On one hand, we should be swinging for the fences and trying to get guys like Okafor. On the other, we barely have enough time for our own young guys as it is.
    ppine, Siranthony and Nokidding like this.
  14. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    It’s good to hear from you, Padrino.
    VF21 likes this.
  15. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    It would seem if a team likes ZBO as the Kings appear to do. That Okafor would be like a younger version of a player with a similar game? Or is there more to it than the type of game? I know they could not play together. But what a nice 1 -2 punch of down low scoring.
    pshn80 likes this.
  16. pdxKingsFan

    pdxKingsFan Well-Known Member

    The Boogie trade really p'd me off but it needed to be done for everyone's sake. It's much like the Pats trading Jimmy G to the 9ers that probably benefits Jimmy in the end more than the Pats, but you can't just hold a guy back at cost to you forever and the Kings were never going anywhere with DMC even if he went on to be the greatest player in franchise history, especially if we maxed him to a supermax deal.

    The difference of course between those two scenarios is one team is a perennial champ and the other a perennial chump.

    But dammit, they're my chumps.
    pshn80 and King Baller like this.
  17. Larry89

    Larry89 Disgruntled Kings Fan

    I'm still only a fan because of the garlic fries and $1 beer nights
  18. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Because the Nets have lucked into a competent GM, while the Kings signed a fan favorite. Pretty simple.
  19. Siranthony

    Siranthony Well-Known Member

    Hmm the crying in my beer thread. Whaaaaaaaa! Our current team is much more fun to watch than it ever was when Cousins was here. (minus the lazy performance from time to time this year) I do not miss the the Childish drama and antics. The feuds with the coaches and media. The slow paced lazy drag his ass to the other end of the court. The losing to the worst team in the league at the worst possible time. The potential which the GOAT could never fulfill. The fans who where always complaining about how it was never his fault. on and on season after season. How could you miss that? Sorry I don't get it.
  20. Welcome back Padrino.

    I guess I'm going to be that guy but it's how I feel. Dealing with the last decade would be so much easier if we didn't have our should-have-been great story ripped from us in 2002. The Lakers had two of the all-time greats and we actually managed to be the better team after years of trying. Not only does having what would have been one of the great triumphs in NBA history taken from us make the current state of affairs harder to put up with, but the last ten years makes 2002 even more bitter.

    Also I still miss my man crush, DeMarcus Cousins.
  21. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    If you "are happy to see the Kings losses piling up" you probably should go somewhere else.
  22. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I'm amazed how some Kings fans think that Vlade and Joerger and youth are awful or not very good while other rebuilding teams GM, Coach, players, strategy, schemes, dance team, arena food, etc are "so much better" than whatever Sac has or is doing. To each his own though.
    andjel, VF21 and King Baller like this.
  23. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    It's a "looking through a glass darkly" time. The glass will be less obscure in a couple of years time when players will show themselves to be keepers or not.
    Suicide King likes this.
  24. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    I think two things explain much of it. First, some people are never happy. To them, the grass is always greener across the street. The other thing is that we are a long-suffering fan base due to ineptitude and bad luck. A breeding ground for mistrust.
    King Baller and dude12 like this.
  25. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    I am with you, Gunks. Look at what Quinn Snyder has done with the Jazz and Donovan. Thats a good (great) coach! If Joerger had Mitchell he'd be averaging 8 PPG on 18 MPG.

    Snyder lost Exum, he's been without Joe Johnson, he lost his Gobert for like 10 games and he has these guys playing .500 ball and they recently went into BOS and smacked the Celtics!

    Do you think Joerger could do with the Jazz what Snyder has done? Similarly what could Coach Snyder do with the talent on the Kings?

    Snyder has even had Ricky Rubio (a player who I think is highly overrated) perform competently for awhile! They run the 1-4 flats, they have excellent spacing, the middle of the floor is always open.

    This is how you cater to a team whose strength is speed and shooting so you can get action going to the basket drive and kicks.

    The talent on that Jazz is hardly extraordinary but it meshes it fits and this is reflection of the coach and the GM who assembled the personnel.

    Meanwhile our genius GM passed on AG Anunoby, Donovan and gave away the most talented player in franchise history for peanuts.

    Then he got super lucky in the lottery and retention of picks and unless Harry Giles in the Second Coming might have botched that too.

    The measure of team competitiveness more so than W/L is point differential per 100 possession:
    • Jazz (105.3 - 103.2) >>> +2.1
    • Kings (98.5 - 109.1) >>> -10.6
    The Jazz are 12.7 points better per 100 possessions than the Kings.

    Now are you (collective you, not you specifically) going to tell me this is based in talent differential in the two teams??? I don't think so!

    What did Joerger do besides take the system he ran with the Grizzlies and Randolph and try to duplicate it here? Wow, how inventive.

    Now the players share the blame particularly, Willie (absolutely awful against the Wolves) and SKAL (weak and lost) for not commanding the front court minutes and proving definitively their value over Z-Bong to not only beat him out for playing time, but to overcome the inherent bias of the coach. In fairness to this coach, they have NOT done that.

    Then there is Joerger saying he thinks some of his players have HIT THE WALL at the 30 game mark. I have NO doubt he was referring to Fox. There might be some merit to this.

    We also have guys floundering as afterthoughts:
    • Papa G
    • Malachi
    • Jackson
    Whose seasons so far have collectively amounted to a waste while Vince Carter runs up and down, George Hill mostly goes through the motions and Garrett Temple launches another brick.

    The debatable issue is how much of the struggles are related to underperformance of the players and how much is due to a system that hinders their potential?

    Take Justin Jackson. I am souring on this guy. He's a finesse scorer who doesn't score that well. Wait, what? We spend the #13 pick on this?!?

    Justin Jackson is an old rookie who shoots floaters and bricks wide open looks. Now think about this. If you listen to Grant and Jerry tell it, the fact he can shoot a floater is a positive. But the floater is something you add to your arsenal when you cannot get all the way to the hoop. Its Basketball 101.

    James Harden shoots the three or goes all the way to the rim. He shoots a floater only when he cannot get a lay-up or dunk. Does Jackson have this attack mode mentality? No, he's soft. He's a baby kitten not a pit bull. He bails out the defense if he's not looking to attack with force. This is what Joerger has at his disposal? This is the prudence of the GM and part of the return from Boogie?

    Then we have Buddy who has definitely found his groove off the bench and showing his potential and ability and laser like shooting.

    But it is also disappointing he did not command those starting minutes against better competition. He flopped as a starter.

    If Buddy Buckets had proven his worth against top line SGs then he takes shots and usage away from Z-Bo. But that didn't happen.

    So we go back to the question about the shortcomings of the players OR shortcomings of the system not conducive to their ability.

    If before the season started you told me the Kings would have a point differential in the double digits and their best player would be Zach Randolph, even the pessimistic side of me would have been surprised.

    The positives on this team are:
    • Mason
    • Boggy
    • Buddy off the bench
    • Fox in flashes
    And the performance in the clutch in close games has been hopeful with the execution and guys stepping up making for exciting finishes and us escaping with wins we probably didn't deserve.

    Besides that there is not much to get excited about and that is reflection of those calling the shots at the top (GM, coach, scouts) all the way down to the man at the end of the bench.

    I would like to express a little more holiday cheer, but I don't see it, and I expect us to get thumped again today with Z-Bo scoring 20 (allowing 25) and Carter getting his minutes. And OG showing us what could have been.

    I exempt no one related to the Kings from this rant except Harry Giles , JaVarr Sampson and the Sign Lady. :)
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  26. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    The hard part of this season so far is that it's almost impossible to gauge what the Kings have talent wise. It's especially tough when you consider that's a major portion of what a rebuild is about, but oh well.

    Right now the most frustrating thing is I think the Kings have potentially a scoring machine in Buddy Hield, a strike of lighting in Fox, a tremendous 2 way player in the making in Bogdan, a smooth, silky young big in Skal, and some other really nice young pieces around them, and they are all being buried by the platoon.
  27. OptimusRhyme

    OptimusRhyme Jive Turkey Contributor

    Hopefully Giles is some sort of basketball messiah. We deserve it as Kings Fans.
  28. SacTownKid

    SacTownKid Well-Known Member

    If the trend of how the Kings are utilizing their own youth continues too much longer you are going to see almost any and every young player in the NBA currently, or coming into the NBA avoiding Sacramento like plague. Prepare for a whole bunch of "such and such refuses to work out for the Sacramento Kings." around draft time. There is still time to fix it, but the sun is on the way down. I still think there is a plan at work though and Hill's uptick in productivity might be more about building some trade value than anything else. I'm cool with that if true.
    206Fan likes this.
  29. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    Interesting point about Snyder. I was reading an article on the Ringer the other day and found this quote about him. It's really kind of telling about what's happening here, isn't it.

    "Snyder has a knack for putting players into positions to succeed, and he’s never hesitated to play youngsters like Lyles, Hood, Dante Exum, and Rudy Gobert. In a different environment, Mitchell might’ve ended up with an old-school coach who kept his role the same and simply elevated minutes for “reliable” veterans like Thabo Sefolosha—especially after Mitchell had three 1-for-7 performances in his first five games."

    Oof.
    206Fan, Blob and gunks like this.
  30. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    I also find myself souring on Joerger.

    He's a good coach, would have been great for Cuz (we never really had a chance to get rolling with Joerger/Cuz), but the fit on a rebuilding team seems iffy.

    Then again, as Blob mentioned above, maybe the kids on this team aren't great prospects and we shouldn't blame Joerger for the FO's draft whiffs.

    Always fun being a Kings fan!
    Blob and SLAB like this.

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