It would suck, but assuming Dally leaves... 7th pick?

[King-Da-Yah]

Noone wants Dally to stay more then myself (and others), please don't misunderstand. Also, I realize we cannot know for sure if he will resign with us before the draft, that would be great, but probably won't happen. If Dally leaves, I am guessing Thompson gets back intothe starting line-up, which would probably be our best bet barring some kind of trade where we get a starting big.

So should we factor this into our pick, or just go BPA? I would love a SM like Leonard, but with all the talk of him climbing he might not be there at 7. Do we swing for the fences with Bismack? Or maybe go international with Motie if he is still there?

This is the official worst case scenario of Dally leaving thread. I know, I know, pessimistic, but it was just something I put a lot of thought into while driving from Santa Rosa home to Sac today. This is what I get for listening to Grants show! He is very skeptical of Dally staying because of the draw of playoff teams. What do you guys think?

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Petrie said something about this. I don't recall the exact quote but it basically amounted to him saying they would be going for BPA rather than playing it safe based on what might happen with Dalembert. I agree with this thinking. Also, I really don't think Dalembert not resigning will have the type of negative impact on the team that some seem to think. Personally, I'd rather let him walk if keeping him meant signing him to a big long term deal. The Kings have a nice nucleus with Evans/Cousins/Thornton/Thompson and they have plenty of free agent money to spend as well a #7 draft pick. The Kings will be fine going forward with or without Dalembert.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I think you have to give Biyumbo a long look. And if he is taken before our pick... There really isnt any other defensive big men out there. In the draft or in free agency .. the only real options for teams looking for defense inside are Dalembert, Chandler, Biyumbo, and Kenyon Martin. Chandler is staying with Dallas, and I dont want Kenyon Martin.

I'd call Dalembert plan A, Biyumbo plan B, and Whiteside plan C. Obviously Whiteside is on the team right now, but Im not sure how much you can expect from him next season.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Dally's FA status won't and shouldn't have an effect on our draft motivations, mainly because he won't even be a free agent when we draft in June. If you want to argue that drafting someone like Biyombo would serve as insurance in case he does leave, then sure, but assuming if he leaves or not and potentially leaving a better player on the board because of paranoia is just an ill-advised path to take with this.

Take the BPA, which is what Petrie will do. If you think that Biyombo will be BPA (factoring in potential), then that's fair, but a better argument for his selection (rather than mere Dally insurance) is that we could provide a good environment for his skill development by playing behind Dally and Cousins. Dally could teach him the nuances of post defense while Cousins could show him how to boogie in the post on offense (even a fraction of DMC's moves would do wonders). Be careful that we don't switch those roles. I'll be pissed if I see Biyombo sliding over to take charges in a Kings jersey.

 

[gunks]

Sammy D is legit. It would be a huge step back if we lose him. Look at the remaining teams in the playoffs. 3 out of the 4 have a defensive C on the roster. The team without that defensive bigman is the Heat, rolling out with 2 of the league's top 5 players. Players like Dally dont grow on trees either.


I dont know if Biyombo is a Petrie pick, but if we did end up with him it would make me feel better about him not being a bust. Our FO has a good eye for prospects.

If Dalembert is giving an inkling that he's going to walk, I think it might be best to take Biyombo or one of the big Euros if we're lucky enough to have one fall to us (Kanter or Vilucisassdojsaodjsod...Whatever his name is).

Then its a Cuz/JT frontline going foward, which will still be great on the boards, but not as good defensively. Backing up JT we can have Whiteside vs Bigman Draftee. Hopefully that match will have a better result than the ongoing disappointment of Greene vs Omri.

 

[rainmaker]

I think you have to give Biyumbo a long look. And if he is taken before our pick... There really isnt any other defensive big men out there. In the draft or in free agency .. the only real options for teams looking for defense inside are Dalembert, Chandler, Biyumbo, and Kenyon Martin. Chandler is staying with Dallas, and I dont want Kenyon Martin.

I'd call Dalembert plan A, Biyumbo plan B, and Whiteside plan C. Obviously Whiteside is on the team right now, but Im not sure how much you can expect from him next season.

One guy no one is talking about is Valanciunas, and there's a reason he's ranked above Kanter in most mocks. He's a good player. I've been able to watch him a few times, plays with Khalid El Amin from UConn, and although I don't like him as much as Kanter, he would be worth taking a serious look at if he fell to us.

Reminds me a fair amount of Noah. Not as physical as him yet though. Needs to get stronger, although he is starting to fill out. He's almost 7', long arms, very active on the glass, contests shots, and really a high energy guy like Noah. Doesn't have a jumper like him either. He actually a good ft shooter though, I think above 80%. Pretty good pick & roll finisher and finishing in the paint like Noah.

I haven't thought much about getting him, was basically thinking more about the top 3 until yesterday, but he wouldn't be a bad insurance policy on Dally. He labelled as a center, but I think he's mobile enough to guard some pf's. He definitely not a slow, unathletic 7'. He would be a rpoject though.

I'm not sure Kanter, Valanciunas, and Bismack will all be taken in the first 6.

 

[ParniValjak]

Sammy D is legit. It would be a huge step back if we lose him. Look at the remaining teams in the playoffs. 3 out of the 4 have a defensive C on the roster. The team without that defensive bigman is the Heat, rolling out with 2 of the league's top 5 players. Players like Dally dont grow on trees either.


I dont know if Biyombo is a Petrie pick, but if we did end up with him it would make me feel better about him not being a bust. Our FO has a good eye for prospects.

If Dalembert is giving an inkling that he's going to walk, I think it might be best to take Biyombo or one of the big Euros if we're lucky enough to have one fall to us (Kanter or Vilucisassdojsaodjsod...Whatever his name is).

Then its a Cuz/JT frontline going foward, which will still be great on the boards, but not as good defensively. Backing up JT we can have Whiteside vs Bigman Draftee. Hopefully that match will have a better result than the ongoing disappointment of Greene vs Omri.

I could actually see Biyombo as a Petrie pick! No one here thought that Noah was a Petrie pick but the man was shattered when Chicago pinched him one spot ahead of us in the draft. Ironically, we ended up picking Hawes who every one thought was a Petrie pick. Similarly, everyone though Curry was a Petrie pick but we ended up with Tyreke.

Point is, if Petrie thinks there is a productive player in there somewhere, he will pick him regardless if people think that the guy is offensively skilled or not.

Looking at it long term, regardless of whether Dally stays or not, Biyombo on surface appears to be exactly the sort of player you are looking to pair with Cousins. Sure it would be nice if the dude was a 6'11 but he has freakish length and athleticism and brings the things that Cousins is lacking in.

 

[Kingster]

Yesterday, Napier just mentioned in passing (with a tone that would suggest it's common knowledge) that he doubts Dalembert would be resigned by the Kings. Too many playoff calibre teams after him, according to Napier. The voice of the Kings (management) is sending out the word: Don't get your hopes up on Dalembert.

 

[Section 101]

Yesterday, Napier just mentioned in passing (with a tone that would suggest it's common knowledge) that he doubts Dalembert would be resigned by the Kings. Too many playoff calibre teams after him, according to Napier. The voice of the Kings (management) is sending out the word: Don't get your hopes up on Dalembert.

It all depends on the new CBA. If there is no MLE then teams over the cap can't sign him which leaves out the Heat and Knicks. It would then have to be a sign and trade.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

Yesterday, Napier just mentioned in passing (with a tone that would suggest it's common knowledge) that he doubts Dalembert would be resigned by the Kings. Too many playoff calibre teams after him, according to Napier. The voice of the Kings (management) is sending out the word: Don't get your hopes up on Dalembert.

Yah that was why I started the thread, and I agree with you Spaceman, the player we pick should not be based solely on the possibility of Dally leaving. I just think he is an integral part of the team, and if we are ever sure of his leaving before draft day we might want to draft some rebounding and shot blocking.

 

[kennadog]

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/sho...-will-be-back!&p=830883&viewfull=1#post830883

See Gunks post in another thread. Dalembert's comment on the idea of playing with the Heat. I could see reasons why that could appeal to him, besides the obvious. It's the NBA city closest to Haiti and there's no state income tax in Florida.

Of course, he was asked and gave a politic answer.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

One guy no one is talking about is Valanciunas, and there's a reason he's ranked above Kanter in most mocks. He's a good player. I've been able to watch him a few times, plays with Khalid El Amin from UConn, and although I don't like him as much as Kanter, he would be worth taking a serious look at if he fell to us.

Reminds me a fair amount of Noah. Not as physical as him yet though. Needs to get stronger, although he is starting to fill out. He's almost 7', long arms, very active on the glass, contests shots, and really a high energy guy like Noah. Doesn't have a jumper like him either. He actually a good ft shooter though, I think above 80%. Pretty good pick & roll finisher and finishing in the paint like Noah.

I haven't thought much about getting him, was basically thinking more about the top 3 until yesterday, but he wouldn't be a bad insurance policy on Dally. He labelled as a center, but I think he's mobile enough to guard some pf's. He definitely not a slow, unathletic 7'. He would be a rpoject though.

I'm not sure Kanter, Valanciunas, and Bismack will all be taken in the first 6.

I have a few problems with Valaciunas ... One is his 'Tricky Buyout" everyone keeps talking about. Now, I've said it before that I think this would be a GOOD year to draft a player and keep him in europe for a few season. Well, thats only if we get to hold on to Dalembert. If we lose out on Dally, I'm not sure we can afford waiting 2 years for Valaciunas to come over. By that time we may not need him anymore.

I think Biyumbo is a project, but I think Valaciunas would be an even bigger project .. at least Biyumbo has a NBA ready body. He looks like he could come in right away and defend guys for you.

It would be nice if their were some other options out there .. but losing Dalembert would hurt. If Biyumbo and Valaciunas are on the board when we pick, I think you have to take Biyumbo right now... And thats not a knock on Valaciunas as much as it is filling a need sooner.

If Dalmbert is on board with us, I have no problem picking up Valaciunas with 7. At that point, he may be a better pick than Biyumbo, who would be sitting on the bench stuck behing Cousins, JT, and Dally.

 

[LPKingsFan]

If Dalmbert is on board with us, I have no problem picking up Valaciunas with 7. At that point, he may be a better pick than Biyumbo, who would be sitting on the bench stuck behing Cousins, JT, and Dally.

The problem is, the draft is before free agency. So we won't know one way or another with Dalembert until after the draft. If we like Biyombo, we should take him, regardless of Dalembert's free agency.

 

[Bricklayer]

As an aside, one of the Maloofs was quoted in the NY Post yesterday about how they intend to sign Daly, have money, and are going to spend it. Of course Daly may have something to say about that, but from our end the intent is clear enough, and none of these teams like New York and Miami can go above the current MLE, and hopefully/presumably that won't change with a new CBA. Let's hope the months of starting alongside Cousins in a successful pairing the back half of the year hold some with with Daly. And the extra millions of dollars in our presumed offer.

As I've mentioned before, when all the winners in the league want to sign your player, and you have become a perennial loser, you might just want to think about signing him yourself. Those teams might be onto something.

 

[sidney]

so Dalembert will probably have immediate offers from at least Miami and New York for the full MLE, which is around 5/33M I think.

That's what we have to outbid. 5/40M with a front loaded, declining contract is probably around what it will take to lock him up. I don't see anyone out there with the cap room and need that would compete with that.

 

[bajaden]

I think you have to give Biyumbo a long look. And if he is taken before our pick... There really isnt any other defensive big men out there. In the draft or in free agency .. the only real options for teams looking for defense inside are Dalembert, Chandler, Biyumbo, and Kenyon Martin. Chandler is staying with Dallas, and I dont want Kenyon Martin.

I'd call Dalembert plan A, Biyumbo plan B, and Whiteside plan C. Obviously Whiteside is on the team right now, but Im not sure how much you can expect from him next season.

If everything remains status quo with the new CBA, then I agree that Chandler will remain with Dallas. But if the NBA gets its hard cap put in place at 45 mil, then Dallas would have no chance or resigning Chandler, since their total salaries are at 59.5 mil going into next season. Even if the NBA takes a couple of years to slowly get to the hard cap, I think they might frown on a team going in the opposite direction instead of using the aloted time to get their house in order.

 

[Section 101]

so Dalembert will probably have immediate offers from at least Miami and New York for the full MLE, which is around 5/33M I think.

That's what we have to outbid. 5/40M with a front loaded, declining contract is probably around what it will take to lock him up. I don't see anyone out there with the cap room and need that would compete with that.

dunno how many times it has to be said. We dont know what the new CBA will bring in terms of contracts. One of the main points the NBA owners want is to get rid of the MLE.

 

[bajaden]

It all depends on the new CBA. If there is no MLE then teams over the cap can't sign him which leaves out the Heat and Knicks. It would then have to be a sign and trade.

I really doubt that Dalembert could be gotten for the MLE, unless he's really hungry for a ring. And even at that, there's no guarantee of one no matter who you sign with. But as who can make him a legit offer, your right, a lot of it depends on the new CBA. If the new CBA comes in with a cap near last years cap, then there will be several teams that could compete for his services, including the Clippers, Nuggets, Pacers, and Grizzleys. All sitting at 45 mil or under. Even the Rockets, sitting at 49.7 mil could make an offer starting at 7.5 to 8 mil a year.

However, if they come in with the cap they asked for, 45 mil, then I'd be surprised if he didn't end up back with the Kings.

 

[bajaden]

so Dalembert will probably have immediate offers from at least Miami and New York for the full MLE, which is around 5/33M I think.

That's what we have to outbid. 5/40M with a front loaded, declining contract is probably around what it will take to lock him up. I don't see anyone out there with the cap room and need that would compete with that.

The Pacers and Grizzleys both could match that offer or exceed it if they desired to do so. Once again, it depends on the new CBA and what the cap is. If the cap is 45 mil, both those team could still make a great offer. If the Cap is the same as last years, then there's probably 12 to 13 teams that could make Dalembert a good offer well in excess of the MLE.

 

[TTown Kings]

This is his last chance at a big $, long-term deal. No way he takes the MLE. I could see him taking the MLE if he was already 35, but at 30 with this likely being his last fairly large payday, money will win out.

 

[Section 101]

The Pacers and Grizzleys both could match that offer or exceed it if they desired to do so. Once again, it depends on the new CBA and what the cap is. If the cap is 45 mil, both those team could still make a great offer. If the Cap is the same as last years, then there's probably 12 to 13 teams that could make Dalembert a good offer well in excess of the MLE.

Think your numbers are way off.

The griz are around $55 mil next year before Gasol or Battier cap holds.

Rockets are at $45 mil before Yao and Chuck Hayes cap holds.

There are only like 5-6 teams under the $58 mil cap.

Those teams would have to renouce their rights to the players to free cap space.

 

[sidney]

dunno how many times it has to be said. We dont know what the new CBA will bring in terms of contracts. One of the main points the NBA owners want is to get rid of the MLE.

of course it depends on the CBA. That doesn't need to be mentioned as a qualifier every...single....time.

If there is no MLE or a more limited one (my guess), all the better for us.

 

[bajaden]

Since there's a lot of speculation on who can do what, as far as the MLE, or simply being enough under the cap to make an offer, here's a list of the teams in order of highest salaries to lowest. Some of the amounts listed could change depending on players using an available opt out clause, or the team itself having the team option on a contract.

Lakers: 93.5 million
Magic: 76.2 million
Trailblazers: 75.8 Million
Spurs: 71.1 million
Heat: 66.8 million
Hawks: 66.4 million
Suns: 65.8 million
Celtics: 65.7 million
Bulls: 64.4 million
Knicks: 60.6 million
Mav's: 59.9 million
Jazz: 57.0 million (from this point on, teams are under last years cap, which was around 58.5 million)
Cav's: 56.6 million
76er's: 54.1 million
Hornets: 53.0 million
Bobcats: 50.9 million
Bucks: 50.6 million
Warriors: 49.9 million
Thunder: 49.8 million
Rockets: 49.7 million
Pistons: 47.8 million
Raptors: 47.1 million
Wizzards: 45.8 million
Clippers: 45.4 million
Timberwolves: 43.7 million (from this point on, these are the teams that would be below the 45 million hard cap the league is asking for)
Nuggets: 41.0 million
Nets: 40.9 million
Grizzleys: 37.4 million
Pacers: 35.5 million
Kings: 27.6 million

As you can see, a hard cap of 45 million dollars would have a huge impact on the league, and would result in either players getting their contracts restructured, or being put back on the market. There would only be 6 teams in the entire league below the cap. It would have the most impact on teams that have all their money tied up in just 3 or 4 players. Like the Heat, or the Hawks. Personally, I just don't see this happening. I could see a hard cap being put in place over a 3 year period of time, but not one as low as 45 mil. I would have thought that a good compromise would have been to move to a hard cap, but make the cap higher than last years cap, and then slowly bring it down over, say a 5 year period. Less immediate hardship that way, and simple yearly player atrition could move you to whatever the final target cap would be.

 

[Section 101]

Since there's a lot of speculation on who can do what, as far as the MLE, or simply being enough under the cap to make an offer, here's a list of the teams in order of highest salaries to lowest. Some of the amounts listed could change depending on players using an available opt out clause, or the team itself having the team option on a contract.

Lakers: 93.5 million
Magic: 76.2 million
Trailblazers: 75.8 Million
Spurs: 71.1 million
Heat: 66.8 million
Hawks: 66.4 million
Suns: 65.8 million
Celtics: 65.7 million
Bulls: 64.4 million
Knicks: 60.6 million
Mav's: 59.9 million
Jazz: 57.0 million (from this point on, teams are under last years cap, which was around 58.5 million)
Cav's: 56.6 million
76er's: 54.1 million
Hornets: 53.0 million
Bobcats: 50.9 million
Bucks: 50.6 million
Warriors: 49.9 million
Thunder: 49.8 million
Rockets: 49.7 million
Pistons: 47.8 million
Raptors: 47.1 million
Wizzards: 45.8 million
Clippers: 45.4 million
Timberwolves: 43.7 million (from this point on, these are the teams that would be below the 45 million hard cap the league is asking for)
Nuggets: 41.0 million
Nets: 40.9 million
Grizzleys: 37.4 million
Pacers: 35.5 million
Kings: 27.6 million

As you can see, a hard cap of 45 million dollars would have a huge impact on the league, and would result in either players getting their contracts restructured, or being put back on the market. There would only be 6 teams in the entire league below the cap. It would have the most impact on teams that have all their money tied up in just 3 or 4 players. Like the Heat, or the Hawks. Personally, I just don't see this happening. I could see a hard cap being put in place over a 3 year period of time, but not one as low as 45 mil. I would have thought that a good compromise would have been to move to a hard cap, but make the cap higher than last years cap, and then slowly bring it down over, say a 5 year period. Less immediate hardship that way, and simple yearly player atrition could move you to whatever the final target cap would be.

Those numbers dont have the cap holds for free agents.

 

[sidney]

Those numbers dont have the cap holds for free agents.

Yes, definitely need to look further to qualify those numbers. For example, Randolph's extension is not included in the Memphis number. Wizards are likely going to sign Nick Young, their leading scorer, etc. Rookie contract obligations are not added. There are also min cap holds for empty roster spots which reduce spending power. The list will not be that big once all that stuff is worked out.

 

[Glenn]

Yes, definitely need to look further to qualify those numbers. For example, Randolph's extension is not included in the Memphis number. Wizards are likely going to sign Nick Young, their leading scorer, etc. Rookie contract obligations are not added. There are also min cap holds for empty roster spots which reduce spending power. The list will not be that big once all that stuff is worked out.

Who's going to do it?

Anyway, I have been fascinated by the Lakers salaries. Three seasons down the road they have a salary of over $60 mil. In the 4th year they have Pau and Kobe signed for $50 mil between them. I know this isn't a thread about the Lakers but given Buss' influence, I doubt if we will see a precipitous change in the CBA. This would destroy the Lakers. It must be nice to have so much income that you can snicker at the limits of the present cap rules. THAT is the biggest change that needs to happen in the CBA. It goes further than revenue sharing, that's for sure. An eventual hard cap has to happen or there will be a perpetual tendency for the rich teams to succeed and the poor teams to get beaten up on. I know, I know, there are exceptions but the general rule seems to hold. Probably deserves another thread for those so inclined.

It's nice to see a list of team salaries even if it isn't perfect. We at least have an idea of where we stand in the real world of money.

 

[Kingster]

Since there's a lot of speculation on who can do what, as far as the MLE, or simply being enough under the cap to make an offer, here's a list of the teams in order of highest salaries to lowest. Some of the amounts listed could change depending on players using an available opt out clause, or the team itself having the team option on a contract.

Lakers: 93.5 million
Magic: 76.2 million
Trailblazers: 75.8 Million
Spurs: 71.1 million
Heat: 66.8 million
Hawks: 66.4 million
Suns: 65.8 million
Celtics: 65.7 million
Bulls: 64.4 million
Knicks: 60.6 million
Mav's: 59.9 million
Jazz: 57.0 million (from this point on, teams are under last years cap, which was around 58.5 million)
Cav's: 56.6 million
76er's: 54.1 million
Hornets: 53.0 million
Bobcats: 50.9 million
Bucks: 50.6 million
Warriors: 49.9 million
Thunder: 49.8 million
Rockets: 49.7 million
Pistons: 47.8 million
Raptors: 47.1 million
Wizzards: 45.8 million
Clippers: 45.4 million
Timberwolves: 43.7 million (from this point on, these are the teams that would be below the 45 million hard cap the league is asking for)
Nuggets: 41.0 million
Nets: 40.9 million
Grizzleys: 37.4 million
Pacers: 35.5 million
Kings: 27.6 million

As you can see, a hard cap of 45 million dollars would have a huge impact on the league, and would result in either players getting their contracts restructured, or being put back on the market. There would only be 6 teams in the entire league below the cap. It would have the most impact on teams that have all their money tied up in just 3 or 4 players. Like the Heat, or the Hawks. Personally, I just don't see this happening. I could see a hard cap being put in place over a 3 year period of time, but not one as low as 45 mil. I would have thought that a good compromise would have been to move to a hard cap, but make the cap higher than last years cap, and then slowly bring it down over, say a 5 year period. Less immediate hardship that way, and simple yearly player atrition could move you to whatever the final target cap would be.

Los Angeles Lakers, Chicago, NY, Miami and Boston are in the top 10. As you suggest, it is very difficult to believe the NBA would insititute a cap that would hammer those particular teams. It seems much more likely that the league would go out its way to protect those teams from the negative impact of such a cap. Call me cynical, but I think the Heat are going to have their cake and eat it too. They took advantage under the old system, and I believe they'll be protected in the new system.

 

[sidney]

Who's going to do it?

So many variables, but looking at the bottom teams:
Memphis is out with Randolph and Gasol salaries added.
Nuggets have QO year for Wilson Chandler and Afflalo which probably takes up 10M and takes them out
Clips need to resign DeAndre Jordan which probably takes a large chunk of their space
Wizards have a QO year for Nick Young + a top 10 pick to sign
Raps have #5 pick salary to take on and probably a couple of roster spots to fill which limits them

It will be a little clearer after draft night but we're probably looking at the Wolves and Pacers as other teams with cap space approaching 10M. Even if they are interested we have advantages over them and it should not be hard to beat their offers. I still think our primary competition is the MLE contending offers (if the MLE exists after the new CBA). We have a very good chance at retaining him if we offer a decent chunk above that.

 

[bajaden]

Think your numbers are way off.

The griz are around $55 mil next year before Gasol or Battier cap holds.

Rockets are at $45 mil before Yao and Chuck Hayes cap holds.

There are only like 5-6 teams under the $58 mil cap.

Those teams would have to renouce their rights to the players to free cap space.

I realize all that. I'm not going to get into all the possible scenarios that each team has. I said at the beginning that the figures could change because of other situations. And its different with each team. I didn't include cap holds for us either. I just gave the basic numbers without taking into consideration cap holds, team options, player options, non-guaranteed contracts, etc. I was just trying to paint a general picture. I got the numbers from three different sites, and as they stand, their accurate. The Grizz can be sitting at 37.4 mil if they desire to do so. Not being a mind reader, I'll just go with the figures I posted.

 

[bajaden]

Yes, definitely need to look further to qualify those numbers. For example, Randolph's extension is not included in the Memphis number. Wizards are likely going to sign Nick Young, their leading scorer, etc. Rookie contract obligations are not added. There are also min cap holds for empty roster spots which reduce spending power. The list will not be that big once all that stuff is worked out.

Mi amigo, if you want to go through team by team, and you have the ability to read the minds of all the GM's and decide who their going to resign or not, then have at it. I was just trying to give a general idea of where each team roughly was. And the point was, that not many teams are in a position to make a splash in the freeagent market.

And by the way, Randolph's extension was included in that figure.