I'm sorry, Vlade

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. VF21

    VF21 #TheFutureIsSkal Staff Member Contributor

    I was wrong. I was way too judgmental. I jumped right off Assumption Cliff and into Conclusion Pond without even taking a peek over the edge ahead of time. I ran along with the pack of dogs who were so convinced the Kings were doomed after the trade.

    I'll be totally honest...If DMC was still on the Kings, I would not be this excited. I would not be looking forward to games. What I would be doing is holding my breath and keeping my fingers crossed that Boogie would maintain his cool, not do stupid things and not find a way to get called for another technical (which he did tonight, BTW).

    I loved watching Cousins play. I still believe he'll find a way to turn himself around and he'll end up in the Hall of Fame. But, after tonight...and yes, I know it was against the Suns...I can look forward to the future of the Sacramento Kings without seeing anything but dark skies and gloomy forecasts.

    Our team right now is FUN. Our coach deserves a medal for what he's been able to accomplish. Guys like Skal, WCS and Buddy have their whole careers in front of them and we get to go along for the ride. With vets like Lawson, Temple and Koufos to help set the tone, we've got something special.

    We've had something special before. They ended up on the cover of Sports Illustrated. It went by all too quickly and I don't think I enjoyed enough during the ride. I won't make that mistake again.

    It's a good time to be a Kings fan.

    #GoKings
  2. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    Yes VF!!! Well, it took like 5 years but you and I are on the same page now. :)
    lwc, mac, King Baller and 2 others like this.
  3. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    You're sorry all ready? Emotions are high around here I know. Let's see how this draft pans out for us.
    Ron, KingsFanGER, kingjatt and 5 others like this.
  4. VF21

    VF21 #TheFutureIsSkal Staff Member Contributor

    I don't need to wait any longer to know that my faith in Vlade is restored. If you want to wait longer, that's fine. I have no problem with that. :)
    roasthawg and King Baller like this.
  5. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    I love the Joerger hire, and Vlade's drafting is looking pretty good right now.

    Still hate the trade.

    Its debatable whether or not it was time to move on. But lying to your franchise player and fans is not a good look for a FO that already has a horrible reputation.

    We could have had a nice bidding war if we traded Cuz last summer. Heck, maybe even be upfront with him and work out a sign and trade.

    I like Hield, but you don't trade a 28/12/5 big for a rookie SG and a protected pick. That's a horrible return.

    Of course, there were rumors that his hand was forced by Vivek, who after years of blocking Cuz trades (which would have netted much bigger returns), suddenly got wet feet over the extension mere days before the deadline. Seems like a Vivek move to me.

    What I'm saying is that Vlade is still a flawed GM. We still have a terrible owner. And while I'm not ready to eat crow just yet, I am willing to admit that our future isn't as dark as I thought it was a few weeks ago.

    In still rooting for Vlade to succeed. I just think there's a lot of room for improvement!
  6. VF21

    VF21 #TheFutureIsSkal Staff Member Contributor

    I'm probably a lot older than you. I want to get the bad part over with, so I can just sit back and enjoy the ride. I never thought I'd be lucky enough to see it TWICE in my lifetime.
    gunks, origkds and King Baller like this.
  7. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Nice to read this VF21:) The world was not right with you at odds with Vlade.

    I did not like the trade either. But I'm a Kings lifer:)
    gunks, spok22s, origkds and 1 other person like this.
  8. iowamcnabb

    iowamcnabb Active Member

  9. jcassio

    jcassio Active Member

    So I guess you reached the acceptance stage? Good for you! Life is short. Enjoy it while you can, right?
    Vlade is still in my dog house (sorta), but I get no joy in assuming the worst (when I don't really know) and bashing him at every opportunity.
    Ron, gunks, spok22s and 2 others like this.
  10. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Welcome back to the world of positive thinking. Much more fun, and less stressful. :cool:
    origkds, New Era, lwc and 2 others like this.
  11. The attitude on this message board is unbelievably bipolar.


    Kings win and it's all "GLORY DAYS AHEAD!!! I LOVE THIS TEAM!!! I'M SORRY VLADE!"

    Kings lose and it's all "TERRIBLE TRADE. THIS SUCKS. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY I WATCH."

    C'mon fellas. Can we at least keep our optimism and negativity consistent?


    I'll admit, watching this new brand of basketball is a lot more exciting. I no longer tune into games thinking, "let's see what everyone besides Cousins does."

    I am definitely excited about Skal, WCS, Hield etc... It really makes everything much more watchable. I'll also say, our outlook seems much less futile.


    Again though, can we at least be consistently supportive and unsupportive? For what it's worth...I hated the trade, but enjoy the current team.
    Big Cuz 15, DesertFox, Ron and 2 others like this.
  12. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    This was not a Vivek move, and many reports confirm that. Vlade and the FO have wanted to trade Cousins for a long time and Vivek was the man from keeping it from happening. When Vlade saw Vivek open up to a trade on all star weekend, he got what he thought he could and finished it before Vivek got cold feet. Vlade was behind Cousins more because he thought Vivek would never agree to trade him so he felt he had to do his best to try and build around him, but what we are seeing is what he and the FO have probably envisioned. With Cousins gone theres no longer that hold your breath environment not only in games but surely in practice, film sessions etc. Having a personality like Cousins was bad for work environment, young guys in the past were probably more eager to clock in and clock out and just stay in their lane. Now that is all gone and we have a team of high character youngsters and vets who are working hard, a young coaching staff that is doing more work than we have seen since Adelman.
    peacelate, Suicide King and upinsmoke like this.
  13. lwc

    lwc Well-Known Member

    "I've got high hopes, I've got high hopes, I've got high apple pie in the sky hopes...."
    ockingsfan likes this.
  14. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Yay! Vlade's a genius again (until the next move in which case, BOOOOOOOO)
    lwc, Big Cuz 15, KingsFanGER and 4 others like this.
  15. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    Believe what you want. I don't know if it was a Vivek move or not. I don't know if it was a front office and Vlade move or not? Reports confirm it? What about the reports that said otherwise? It happened.

    What I do know, after the Malone firing the reports shifted and they shifted in a way that put Vivek in the best light possible. Sometimes history repeats itself.

    But in terms of Vlade, I still don't like how it came down but I also remember one of the things that made Petrie a really good GM during the glory days was ability to fix a mistake quickly. I think Vlade has some of that ability. And I think sometimes when in a position of power you have to do some things you don't like. I also think he's a quick learner.
  16. itzcoatl

    itzcoatl Well-Known Member

    I've been very pleasantly surprised by Skal's play. Buddy's TS is impressive. So I think I've moved on the scale from "the sky is falling" to wait-and-see.
    King Baller likes this.
  17. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Vlade you got balls making that trade but at the end of the day it will remain one of the worst in history when you look at what we got in return for a perennial all star big man and future hall of famer. Half our deal is still to be worked out given pick protections etc. Woeful, woeful trade which was basically a salary dump.

    Amateur hour when you admitted we had a better deal on the table which you didn't take.

    In any case, you say you got 2 years to get us to where we need to be or you'll walk. Forgive me if i don't believe you, but you cant lay straight in bed. I've always rated your drafting so i hope favor falls on our side but this franchises's asset management has been completely inept and i have no faith that with you at the helm you'll do anything positive there.

    Keep the kids coming in Vlade.
  18. I don't know how you can all of a sudden forgive divac because of skal playing well for a few games. He still butchered the stauskas trade, the cousins trade, and the aftermath of the cousins trade. I still think the papagiannis pick was horrendous. Hopefully I eat crow on this. All I'm saying is that while I think divac nailed the skal pick and the joerger hire, it's going to take a lot more effort and time on his part before I'd finally feel comfortable penning a forgiveness letter.
    sono likes this.
  19. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    Nobody gets everything right. You can't say he butchered the DMC trade. It appears there simply weren't a lot of great offers on the table. The bottom line here is that he drafted WCS, Skal, Richardson and Papa. It appears he got the first 3 right in a big way. Jury is still out on Papa. He was the 13th pick in an average draft. He's still a kid and could develop. Way too early to say he screwed that one up.
    origkds, King Baller and VF21 like this.
  20. andjel

    andjel Well-Known Member

    nothing changed with regards to the trade. He introduced a huge risk in Kings future. The way it was conducted was and still is bad and nothing can change that. We did get something useful from the deal, but as others mentioned, at least another first rounder (even low one) and/or no top 3 protection would be the expected value.

    That being said, with luck and good drafting Kings can be better in a long run thanks to Vlade, but that all has to do with what happens in the summer and nothing to do with this game or Skal/WCS/Malachi/Papa progress.

    I do share the sentiment though. Since we have no more choice, we can enjoy the youngsters without burden of worrying about this seasons success :)
    VF21 likes this.
  21. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I just want Vlade to be consistent with what they want to do and the direction of the team.

    If they want to go young and rebuild around the Kids, then do it and stay the course.

    I just don't want to see the Kings trade the Kids for Carmelo Anthony this summer! o_O
    Big Cuz 15 likes this.
  22. I refuse to believe that there were not a lot of great offers out there for Cousins. Cousins, as big of a head case as he is, has received nothing but praise from other players and coaches from around the league. If reports are to be believed, Vlade was getting so many inquiries and offers for Cousins that he stopped answering phone calls. None of those deals were better than Hield and a protected first? I think that there were much better offers out there, but didn't include anyone that Vivek himself was absolutely smitten with, which is how we ended up with Hield. Kevin Love brought back Andrew Wiggins (one of the most hyped prospects ever). Timofey Mozgov got the Nuggets two late first rounders. I think the whole "no better offers out there" is just people doing damage control.

    As far as the draft goes, he definitely has done a lot better. Skal is looking like a genius pick, but had Cousins not been traded I think Vlade had no intention of including Skal in his future plans. He drafted him with his third pick in that draft, on a team that already featured Cousins, WCS, Koufos, and the guy he was obviously higher on, Papa G, who he could've just drafted in the second round considering he was rated as the 50th ish best prospect in the draft.

    I'm willing to give Vlade the benefit of the doubt because he is new to the whole front office world. I think he has the potential to be a really savvy GM down the line. He definitely has a solid eye for young prospects. But if I had to give him a grade right now based on how I think he's done it would be a D+/C-.
  23. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    @VF21 We knew you couldn't stay mad at #21 for too long, no matter the circumstances. ;)

    For me, he's gonna have to make a string of good moves/draft choices (and stop misleading players) before I even begin to change my opinion of him.
    VF21 likes this.
  24. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member


    So you think he had better offers on the table and decided to take the weaker offer? He did admit that there was a better offer but it sounds like DMC's agent screwed that up. As far as you saying he gets praise around the league, I think that's a bunch of BS. If you notice, it's extremely rare for coaches, GM's, etc to bad mouth players. It's just not good for business. My sources tell me that behind the scenes, there were a number of franchises that wanted absolutely nothing to do with him.
    origkds likes this.
  25. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    So what is your new username gonna be?

    :p
  26. I do think he had better offers. There's no way a guy putting up 28/11/5/1.4/1.3, who can shoot the 3, and who has made multiple all star teams and Team USA appearances only receives an underachieving rookie and a protected first round pick. I think Vlade had better deals, turned them down, then had a change of heart and took a worse deal when other GM's smelled blood in the water.
  27. kupman

    kupman Well-Known Member

    Vlade has been taking an absolute beating around here for weeks. However, he has obtained Buddy, Skal, Richardson, Big George and Bogdan from last summers draft. Did any team in the league do better in the draft - judging it from today?

    How quickly things can change. Enjoy the ride.:)
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member


    I think VF21 was saying that she had changed her mind about the situation. You can hardly accuse her of flip/flopping back and forth. Up to now, she had been very consistent. I think it's OK for someone to change their mind. Look, I think if you had the chance to sit down with Vlade and ask him if he was happy with how the entire process went down, he'd say no. I think he'd admit that he could have done it better. But what's done is done, and if the results turn out to be what Vlade wanted, then that's what really matters, despite how he got there. And I'm not saying that the end justifies the means.

    If what we're worried about is Cousins feelings, then all I can say, is hey Cuz, join the club of hurt feelings. I'm sure Peja wasn't happy either. But to be honest, I really, really have a hard time worrying about the feelings of someone, anyone, making millions of dollars while I'm on a limited income living in Mexico. Call that a selfish attitude if you want, but it't reality for me. Vlade is the GM, and as he said, if I'm going down, then I'm going down doing it my way. I honestly can't blame him for that. Your either driving the bus, or your a passenger.

    If what we're worried about is the return on the trade, then I think there's some legit concerns there. But I also think the final outcome of the trade can be traced back a timeline starting with Vlade being hired as GM. As I stated in another post in a different thread, I think Vlade wanted to trade Cousins from the get go. Not so much because of the issues that came with Cuz, but because Vlade had a vision for the team, and the style of basketball Cousins played didn't really fit that vision. That doesn't mean Cousins is a bad person, or a bad player. Just a bad fit. Now you and I or anyone can disagree with that that assessment, but we're not the GM.

    Anyway, my point is, had Vlade been allowed to trade Cousins back then, he probably would have gotten more for him. The longer he waited, the less he was going to get, because the rental time became less, Then with the new CBA, and the amount of money the Kings would have to pay Cousins, other teams knew the Kings were between a rock and a hard place. Personally, I wasn't a fan of the trade on it's face value. I didn't like how it went down. But I understand why it happened, and, I'm not one to cry over spill't milk.

    More than anything, I'm a Kings fan!!!! And I don't think the young guys deserve any blame for what happened. Right now, they're all working hard, and busting their butts on the court, and that deserves our attention, and applause. I think if were going to talk basketball, we should be talking about them, not Cousins. Although I will admit I still follow the big fella. Just like I followed Peja and others after they left the team. I cheer their success, until they show up in Sacramento, and then, for 48 minutes, they become the enemy.
    origkds, fnordius, Warhawk and 6 others like this.
  29. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I believe the drafted Papagiannis because he foresaw a future without Cousins. I think he drafted Richardson because he didn't see a future with McLemore. And I think he drafted Skal, because he was shocked to see him still on the board. I think the results validate what I believe to some extent. I think that was Vlade's plan from the get go, but I think the road got a little bumpy between points an A and B. OK, maybe a lot bumpy.
  30. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Aaron Bruski and Scott Howard Cooper both said that they had talked to several GM's that stated they wouldn't take Cousins on their team if the Kings game him to them. Others thought he was a terrific player, didn't want to take a chance on screwing up their chemistry. I think it was Cooper that said he talked to Danny Anige who said he had asked his Coach, Brad Stevens if he wanted to trade for Cousins, and that Stevens definitively said no. Call that he said/she said if you want to, but it appears there wasn't that big a market for Cousins.

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