How willing are KingsFans to wait and see what develops?

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by CruzDude, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. CruzDude

    CruzDude Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden

    The Kings were taken to the bottom of the barrel by owners going nearly broke and unable to get quality players and coaches. The coaching merry-go-round was perhaps the worst 5 years in Kings history proving no continuity, no role players and no solid basis for a team to win games.

    Everything has changed, almost. New owners with deep pockets, new FO, a new coach with a pedigree on winning teams, new assistant coaches with excellent pedigree as well and their very own minor league team in the Reno Bighorns. Cuz is now on stage left presented with the leading role. The coaches and FO got the players they wanted (considering the recent team situation) to start the process to the next step: a pass first PG, a super role playing and successful PF, a lock down defender SF and the best shooter in the 2013 draft class, at least according to his peers.

    The transition is gonna take time. By the All-Star break we should be seeing the fruits of the coaches labor in team play, in a defense first running team that looks better than any we've seen in the last 6-7 years. But there is likely a piece or two that will be needed up to the trading deadline. Then thru the end of the year we should begin to see consistency, teamwork, key role players clearly defined and a team that starts to worry the 7th and 8th place playoff teams. Can't reasonably expect playoff this year and won't even think that way this year.

    I'm excited for the first time in years at the prospect of a better team based on the attitude and background of the staff and the deep pockets of the owners and the core players we have now. But what of the rest of you KingsFans? Are you prepared to be patient, to hold off your vitriol and negative slams for half a season and see what developed first? Sure hope so. Will make it a lot more enjoyable for the rest of us.

    After all both PDA and Coach Malone said on multiple occasions that building a "defensive culture" for the team will take time and at least 1-2 years. None of us wants to wait a year or two but like waiting for a new car we really want, the wait is worth the result.

    I plan to get to the 4th pre-season game at Arco (afraid I'll always call it that), watch every game on League Pass then go to the game in Phoenix on Nov 20 to see how they handle a road game.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  2. TyFreak Evans

    TyFreak Evans Active Member

    I am willing to wait it out. I know this ship is not gonna be smooth sailing over night. I think you almost have to be willing to wait it out at this point. We are starting fresh. New owners. New coach. New players. New culture. We have to wait and see what develops on the court. I have said this before (maybe not so much here on kingsfans.com, but more in conversations with friends and family), but I do not expect us to turn it around and win 40+ games. Heck, even if do not increase our win total from last season, I will be ok. As long as the play on the court shows signs of greatness. As long as the effort is there night in and night out. As long as we are still in the position to win games late in the 4th quarter. And, if we do find ourselves in the position of having a late 4th quarter lead, improvement in the ability to seal the deal would be a pleasant sight to my eyes.
  3. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    I'm looking forward to the season with about the same expectations as you have spelled out. Hoping for a display of patience by our posters is such a change for our posters that I do not expect it. We've read so many bad things on here about Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Salmons, Outlaw, Thornton, Fredette, Thomas that it may be too much to see the ship turned. Enough of such pessimism, let's hope it's an uplifting year on these threads. Go Kings!!!
  4. RichieInRocklin

    RichieInRocklin Active Member

    From the geto-go of the blessed ownership change, we all knew that the Kings were not going to get turned around in a few months. It's probably going to take a few years. But I, for one, will look happily for little changes, like an emphasis on defense, passing the ball with no black holes, toughness, etc., and rejoice in them, while awaiting the real changes that will come with time of our draft, good trades, etc. Patience, everyone, and enjoy the (at first) slow ride up to the top. Go Kings!!!
    VF21 likes this.
  5. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    Perform like a Maloof, get treated like a Maloof.

    However, I am fair about such things. If at some point they quit acting like an extension of the Maloof stupidity, I will give them credit for doing so. They've done 2 things right so far: the minor trade for Mbah a Moute, and bringing Kayte back. If they get Boogie's extension done before the season starts, that will be a third. They've also done a whole bunch of stuff that were I in charge I would have called them on the carpet before me and made them grovel not to be demoted to the janitorial staff.

    I do BTW, expect us to have a better season for 1) my own blind faith that Malone can coach defense, 2) my not so blind faith that Boogie can blow up; and 3) my suspicion that just the sort of blind enthusiasm expressed in this thread will enliven the arena and inspire the team. I have said before that I think our teams in the early Sacto days were actually much worse than even their lousy records reflected. But they got picked up by the home crowd to such a degree that there was a huge home/road split for them every year. Could be there again this year. So in a lot of ways if somebody would just politely chain PDA back up with his calculator in the basement and not let him do anything else, I still think the team improves just by factors not directly involving the new outfit's decisionmaking.
  6. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I don't mind sucking as long as you compete and have players developing for the future.. That is why I am MUCH more positive about this team now, because they have a coach/management that won't tolerate folks showing up and collecting a check. Smart was just a useless jellyfish
  7. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    I'm not sure what we have. We have no one on the staff with a history of head coaching experience unless you count Daddy Malone. I share the wishful thinking as certainly just about anyone is better that Smart.

    Of course I will tolerate what we have. That's what it takes to follow a team that for most of its existence has been very poor if not putrid. Some people here are either too young or are blocking the results of the early years. In a recent poll by ESPN of fans, the Kings were rated number 122 of all the major league sports clubs. 122 is last.
  8. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    We once had three defensive minded players. Tyreke, Douglas and Mboute. We did not sign two of them and now have Mboute. It is nice that we will supposedly have a defensive minded coach but if we are starting out with a new culture I am confused as to what this new culture is.
  9. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    I'm willing to give them time but at the same time we've been waiting really long as Kings fans. Not the fault of the new ownership but a fact nonetheless. Cruzdude kinda over exaggerated what we've got IMO, but no reason why someone can't be optimistic. From my perspective Landry is a guy we've had before. Jimmer was the best shooter in his draft according to his peers, and James Johnson was a lock down defender (that nobody else was exactly high on). Keith Smart talked a good game and even had more head coaching experience than Malone. So I really think you can slice it either way. The one indisputable fact is that we no longer have owners trying to move the team, which is one less major distraction for the players and organization.
  10. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Is there any choice other than being patient? I'm on board with the direction the team is taking. These changes are just the beginning of the changes that will come. I'm ecstatic that we have an actual PG who can play and lead. It's been awhile sinc e we have had that.
  11. Spike

    Spike Well-Known Member

    Huh. Not sure. I gave Smart the benefit of the doubt early on, especially when he seemed to be playing people at the proper position and with the style of offense that was suited to his players. Once he resorted to junk ball in a weak attempt to chase wins (which didn't work), well, he lost me. The moves, or lack thereof, in the off-season trouble me, and given our roster I do not hold out much hope. This team still needs a few major tweaks. I don't expect much out of the players, because they're not that great (except for Cousins.) I'll likely be frustrated with some players from time to time, but I also understand that this is a process, and many changes will have to be made before this team can achieve at a level that I thought they could prior to the last two years. When players easily shoot over IT, that isn't Malone's fault, but if they're consistently out of position, well, that's coaching.
    That said, of course I'm going to see how it shakes out and give Malone the benefit of the doubt...if he shows that he can manage rotations and players in a way that makes sense. Is he a smallballer? Is he a half-court sort of player? Is he a run-and-gunner? Can he get the players to attempt to play some defense? That is what I will be looking for.
  12. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Well-Known Member

    I can and will wait it out. I'm excited to see atleast an average defense as well as the way our one of our pg's, mclemore and cousins are used together.
  13. ninjabiscuit

    ninjabiscuit Well-Known Member

    I bought season tickets for the first time this year. Definitely waiting it out.
  14. HndsmCelt

    HndsmCelt Well-Known Member

    We give rookie players a few years to "get the NBA" I don't see why we should not do the same for owners, coaches and GM's
  15. Padrino

    Padrino Well-Known Member

    it's an interesting question. i find that i have significantly less patience than the average "in vivek we trust"-chanting kings fan, because i saw a good thing in a demarcus cousins/tyreke evans pairing, a good thing that the previous regime had squandered, and a good thing that the new regime did not give a chance to succeed. i am considerably less enthusiastic about a kings team with DMC at the top, and a host of ill-fitting, primarily non-defensive roleplayers around him...

    after the kings traded tyreke evans for grievis vasquez, and after their big free agent splash turned out to be carl landry, i do recall a great many at kf.com telling the cautious among us not to worry, to be patient, because another move was coming this offseason... another move had to be coming this offseason. well, the kings followed up the landry acquisition by trading two future second-rounders for luc richard mbah a moute, who is a serviceable defensive-minded roleplayer, the kind of roleplayer this team needs. but such a trade hardly qualifies as the move that catapults the kings back into the playoffs. with training camp around the corner, nothing else has happened...

    that said, i wasn't expecting the kings to make the playoffs this coming season, regardless of what moves were made by the new regime. however, i was expecting a discernible plan to take the place of the previous regime's bumbling and stumbling about. so far, i rate the new regime a shade under "competent." they have time to change my mind, and i hope they do, but i was not sold on ben mclemore when the kings drafted him, and his summer league performance did nothing to allay my concerns. i am not a fan of the talent bleed that allowed tyreke evans to walk out the door in favor of a non-defensive roleplayer in grievis vasquez. and i did not see the slightest need to overpay a non-defensive roleplayer in carl landry to come off the bench. the worst part is that the kings have precious few tradeable assets with which to further upgrade this mess of a roster...

    all told, i remain wholly unimpressed with the new regime's "plan" this offseason, as it appears to be rather maloofian in nature: bring in whoever is willing to come to sacramento in order to get over the salary floor, and hope for the best come draft day. i understand that the 2014 draft class is supposed to be stacked with top-shelf talent, but pardon me if i'm skeptical of the kings' chances of landing the Next Big Thing, given their lottery history. i hate hope-and-a-prayer strategies. i'm sick of waiting for the ping pong balls to bounce the kings way. the new regime promised to be active agents of their own success. as a fan, i will not abide another sitting-on-their-hands approach. how willing am i to wait and see what develops? i give them two full seasons to get into the playoff conversation. i want the 7th/8th seed to be a reasonable goal when they've opened the doors to the new arena...
  16. origkds

    origkds What- Me Worry? Contributor

    I've been one of the dumbass homers that thought we'd get better every year for the last 6+ years. I must have a little nick on one of my chromosomes so sure, no problem, I'll give them another year or two.
  17. Bosnian Diehard

    Bosnian Diehard Well-Known Member

    I've waited seven years for Playoff basketball in sacramento. I can wait two more.
  18. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well, as someone pointed out, there isn't much choice. I mean, whats the alternative? As I pointed out in another thread, I thought it would take around three years to reverse the process. You don't go in the wrong direction for 6 or 7 years, and then magically fix it in one off season. How long any of us has been waiting is immaterial. Its a brand new day for them. They have a plan, and they have the right, about a 450 million dollar right, to do it their way. They've invested serious money in the Kings. All we've invested for the most part, tickets aside, is emotion. And yes, I know we tend to value our emotion more than their dollar investment.

    I think they deserve a fair chance, and the Maloof label shouldn't be attached to them. While they haven't made everyone happy with some of their moves, they have taken significant steps. They've totally revamped the front office and coaching staff with reputable people that are well thought of around the league. They've brought in a health and fitness coach with 11 championship rings. They've taken over the Reno Bighorns and have developmental coaches in place.

    I know most of you were hoping for major roster changes. Well, there have been some. You may not agree with them, but don't say they weren't made. I won't rehash them because I'm sure most of you have your minds made up one way or the other. But lets not forget that they did try and land Iggy. They made an attempt to sign Calderon. They did go after Kirilenko, and lastly they tried to sign Oden. Now trying doesn't mean success, but it does show effort on their part. Just because you want something, doesn't mean your going to get it. It takes two to tango as they say.

    So yeah, I'll wait and be patient, and I'll give them three years to develop a team that just doesn't make the playoffs, but is able to contend for the western conference championship. I believe that if McLemore develops into the player they think he can be, and Cousins becomes the leader, and go to guy, then their just two good drafts and one good freeagent away from being a contender. That's along with them becoming a good defensive team as well. That's a lot of if's, but it can be done. That doesn't mean I won't be critical when I think its appropriate. One has nothing to do with the other.
  19. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    I'll wait until the start of year 3 before having any real expectations of this team being a serious contender. That gives the FO the time to get a few drafts under their belts, make trades THEY want to make happen, pursue FA's they want on the team, and not be handicapped by the previous regime's mistakes. As of now, this FO is only responsible for roughly $12mil of the Salary cap with letting Reke Walk and replacing him with Vasquez, Mbah and Landry
  20. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    I agree with most of this. To have even a decent year, we need Malone to be the next great coach. We need Vasquez to be an assist monster and not just a reflection of a certain offense that artificially upped his assists. The Landry pick killed my enthusiasm. Killed it dead. I am happy with Mbah a Moute and he should get minutes. I am higher on McLemore than most as he may go of for a lot of points but as a regular part of the team, he has a lot of holes. He's a Maloofian pick. He's everything they wanted from Jimmer.

    We are stuck with what we have and it very well may be less than last year.
  21. Chubbs

    Chubbs Well-Known Member

    I guess if we are here we are all still willing to have patience.

    It was a very very disappointing offseason (minus the team sale and the team staying part). But I'll be watching hoping we are all wrong! Like I do every year. But my brain tells me nothing they did is going to make them any better on the court. And off the court it's hard to understand why they didn't go with more experience with the gm and coach. We all hope Malone is the next harbaugh, but harbaugh actually had been a very successful head coach at Stanford. Malone hasn't been a head coach anywhere to my knowledge. He has major experience as an assistant coach (94-2013). If only that had been what we needed! Its just hard not to be cynical. Same with PDA. No gm experience. It's really hard to make sense of it. I mean, if we were going to raid the golden state and Denver cabinet, we could have at least came away with George Karl.

    Espns rankings have us dead last in players (worst effort and likability), fan relations, and stadium. They can work on the last two right now. Yeah, they can't get rid of Arco yet, but at least make it tolerable. Fan relations they do have promising plans at least at the new arena, but they have to do something now. I can wait for the team to come around. But the fan experience needs to start moving immediately. And it can. It's up to them. This city is dying for a team to be proud of. The fans are just waiting. The market isn't the problem.

    The players are the hardest part. Effort though, that can improve. It has to. And if the stuff around the players improve, and on court chemistry improves, legit talents may actually choose to come here in the future. Honestly, has that happened any time other than when vlade signed? If it has, I can't recall it. The hard part right now is no one in their right mind would come here as a FA unless the money was too much to resist. And to come play for a rookie gm and coach and owner in a half full arena? It's a tough sell. So you overpay carl landry (sigh). Still, that is why I sorta forgive the inability to make meaningful moves. This is a major mess, and needs major work still. But there are things that still can happen to make me very hopeful.

    If I see a packed house opening night and some kind of renovations to Arco, I'll be very willing to ignore the on court stuff. They have to paint the place, the parking lot, something. Fix the bathroom stalls. Anything!

    I tried to be sorta positive in there. A little? :)
  22. Turgenev

    Turgenev Active Member

    If the intent is to win then I will follow the team. I don't think I care too much re blow for blow what moves are made etc. As long as the intent is to build a winning basketball team.

    If the team says something along the lines of 'winning is too difficult let us tank' then I will stop watching.
  23. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    As long as we have a entertaining team (keep Cousins) and they are consistently competitive while we lack a talented team I am fine with that, If we are trying to acquire good talent and get better and we do than winning becomes important but for now being entertaining and competitive > winning. I'm prepared to wait 2-3 more years to see us in the playoffs after that some serious questions have to be asked if we don't.
    VF21 likes this.
  24. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    IMO the Rookies are going to blow up under Malone Jr, Malone Sr and the rest of the coaching staff. Both of these kids can defend. Bring them off the bench together and tell them to get after it on defense for as long as they can. Yes they will get a lot of fouls called on them but so what?

    If the Kings improve on Defense to the point of being respectable I think other things can come later. Things like defined player roles and a solid 8 or 9 player rotation. The knowledge that an opposing player driving for a layup at Arco will get bumped in an aggressive manner. And if the Kings do commit a foul make sure the fouled player does not get the shot off!

    So that's what I expect. Play hard nosed defense and develop a solid rotation so the players know their roles. I hope Baja is correct and DMC is signed long term in October.

    KB
    VF21 likes this.
  25. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member


    I hope I'm right as well. I just think that to let it drag on through the season would be a distraction. Plus, if your serious about making him the centerpiece of the organization, then put your money where your mouth is. Plus, if it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, Cousins is a player that other organizations would love to have. Trade value is dictated by two things. first, is there a demand for the player in question? In Cousins case, at least for the moment, the answer is yes. Secondly, the players salary to a large extent determines what your can get in return. If you have a player that's in demand, and he only makes 4 mil a year, your limited in the amount of salary you can take back in return, unless your way under the cap and can absorb more salary. Not the case with the Kings. But if you have a player in demand, and he makes 14 mil a year, your able to go after a bigger fish, or multiple fish in salary exchange.

    Of course if you have a player making 14 mil a year, and he's not in demand, then you have a problem.
  26. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Work is being done on the arena. For starters, the broken chairs have been fixed! And I understand the bathroom problems have been addressed as well. I know there is a lot of work being done to make the old barn look as spiffy as possible since the eyes of the NBA are going to be on us to see what Vivek has done. I'm pretty certain people are going to be very pleased come Oct. 30.

    GO KINGS!!!
  27. kennadog

    kennadog Dog On It!

    I'm willing to wait maybe 3 or 4 years. However, I do want to see improvement every year. The main thing I want to see this year is for Boogie to take big strides in development and for the team to play better defense and less selfish play.
    Elise10 likes this.
  28. blackice

    blackice Member

    Considering Kings fans had to endure 2007-present with a bunch of miserable, disheartening seasons I am surprised we are all still sane at this point. If I could make it through the years of watching our best player be Kevin Martin or John Salmons, I'm sure I can wait another few years with a clean slate to see how quickly we turn this thing around. Watching those 30+ point blowouts were hysterical at times because of how frequent it happened...that being said, heres to a developing 2013-2014 season.
    VF21 likes this.
  29. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    There you go! I blather on for three or four paragraphs to explain myself, and you do it in two lines... Well done!
  30. kennadog

    kennadog Dog On It!

    Aw, shucks. ;)

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