How do the Kings play to strengths and still compete in a changed NBA?

[KingsFanGER]

I completely understand the "hate" for the Warriors. It's a local california rivalry so nobody would expect a Kings Fan to like the Warriors. I certainly don't like them one bit, but I respect them, because they are a dominant team with a well thought out vision.
What confuses me is the downtalking, belittling and the accuses that the Warriors somehow are bad for the game of basketball.
The Warriors are the reigning champions and just broke a regular season record. They did this, because they earned it. It wasn't given to them.
Now of course we can argue, that the game of basketball has changed, but this isn't related to the Warriors but to the NBA. The NBA is responsible for todays rules, that the Warriors exploit to the fullest.
In an environment that becomes less and less physical and more and more perimeter oriented it makes perfect sense to field a squad of mobile players with versatile skillsets. Once insurmountable height hurdles for certain positions are getting less important, because the game is taken away from the basket and rebounding is more of a challenge, who gets to the long rebound first, than who carves out the most space underneath the basket (see Warriors vs Thunder series).
As long as the NBA wants the game to be played that way, all mourning and complaining will lead nowhere.
In order to be successful in this environment the Kings need to come up with a plan, how to play to their strengths while limiting their opponents strengths.
To do that it doesn't help to belittle your opponent or accuse him of gimmick ball or circus shots. It is what it is and we learned quite a bit during the regular season and the playoffs.
In order to present a problem for Golden State you need to match their length on the perimeter and you need to be as mobile as possible.
Given that the Warriors are to some extent the blueprint for a lot of NBA teams figuring out a way to limit the Warriors will help us against a lot of teams.

Now how do we accomplish this, while still focusing on our strengths - meaning building around our powerhouse in the middle in DMC?

 

[VF21]

MOD NOTE: This can be a totally separate discussion from the "why everyone hates the Warriors" so it's been split into its own thread.

 

[Sac.1989]

Give the ball to boogie in the paint

Acquire better outside shooters

Share the ball

Play better perimeter defence

 

[lawlman91]

Give the ball to boogie in the paint

I disagree. He is best in the mid-range area. A speed mismatch for most centers and a height/strength mismatch for everyone else.

I don't think this whole sub looks down on a certain style of play. It's just that we've tried to be fast and it didn't work because our players don't have the skill-sets to do so. The large part of why the Warriors win is because they use their skill-set the best, not because they have the "right" skill-set. For example, do you see Shaun Livingston shooting 3s? No, he is in the post/mid-range, where he should be, and he is darn effective at it.

 

[dude12]

The Warriors above all else, play great defense. Offensively, they share the ball and have maybe the best 3 point shooting backcourt ever.

Replicate the defense with length and athleticism in the backcourt, surround Boogie with 3 point shooters on offense.
Own the paint on offense.

 

[bajaden]

I like Cousins in the high post, and not down low. Doesn't mean there aren't moments when I think we should take advantage of putting him down low, when the other team has no one to stop him there. But I think his strength is in the high post where he can see the floor better, use his passing skills better, hit the 15 footer if unguarded, or put the ball on the floor and go to the basket. From the high post, you can run the offense through him. Harder to do that in the low post. I know some people think of Cuz as a throw back center, but I disagree. I think he's the best version of the modern center. He can score from anywhere on the floor, and he can get down and dirty if it's required. Everybody else is some version of either/or. They can post up, or, they can stay outside and shoot. Boogie can do both.

Obviously we need better defense, and we need better shooters that can stretch the floor. We also need those that fit the first requirement, to be good passers. They don't have to be ESPN highlight passers, but they have to be able to see, and make the simple pass at the right time. Having minimal ballhandling skills should also be a requirement at all positions. Depending on the outcome of Collisons problems, I think we have some of the parts already on the roster.

I don't want anymore compromises on player acquisitions. Any player we bring to the team should fit what the team is trying to do, or you don't acquire him. Any player that's already on the team that doesn't fit what the team is trying to do, you do your best to move him. No more giving a coach a mish mash of players and saying make it work. I'm tired of the Kings trying to put square pegs into round holes. I realize that none of this is done overnight, but I think were starting to head in the right direction. Surround Cousins with players that are unselfish, and can pass, handle, and shoot. Then develop a system that uses those strengths. Do that, and your competing with the Warriors. Who I like by the way, and don't understand how anyone can hate a team that's as good as they are. Envy I can understand!

 

[bajaden]

The Warriors above all else, play great defense. Offensively, they share the ball and have maybe the best 3 point shooting backcourt ever.

Replicate the defense with length and athleticism in the backcourt, surround Boogie with 3 point shooters on offense.
Own the paint on offense.

Own the paint on defense as well!

 

[Larry89]

First of all they need to call fouls when Cousins gets fouled in the paint

 

[twslam07]

The key is Cauley-Stein. You can find 3pt shooters anywhere to help space the floor, but I would say that the success of this team is almost as much on Cauley-Stein's as it is Cousins. Cousins most likely won't win a championship without a prime Cauley-Stein and Cauley-Stein most likely won't win a championship without a player of Cousins' caliber.

If Cauley-Stein is able to develop a solid post game or really any type of offensive game that takes advantage of smaller defenders, we have the start or cornerstone for a revolutionary roster.

1. C & PF who can take advantage of smaller players on offense (scoring, getting them into foul trouble, etc.)
2. C & PF who aren't liabilities from the free throw line
3. C & PF who can dominate the defensive & offensive boards (Cousins is a great rebounder and Cauley-Stein could become a solid one as well)
4. C & PF who can protect the paint & rim
5. PF with the ability to guard any type of player the opposing team throws at him
6. C & PF who can knock down shots to create space (if Cauley-Stein continues to develop in this area)

If you look at each one individually, it's nothing really that special, but the fact that we can have a frontcourt that could adhere to every single thing on that list is absolutely crazy!

 

[pshn80]

Use our guys plus two new starters, a SG and a big next to Cuz, each giving us strong defenders and more offense. We compete with the modern NBA by getting stronger on defense and stronger on offense. Do this and we can hang with any team in the league whether modern or retro.

 

[kingsboi]

How do they play to their strengths and compete? For starters, start building around you foundation which is Cousins and Trill. To compliment those two, you surround them with players that play defense and are able to knock down the outside shot. As far as I'm concerned, I personally would build a big team. I've stated this a number of times. A big, long team that will punish you but at the same time can hurt you from deep. As far as the Warriors, I don't share the hate as some on here. There is only one team I hate in the league and that would be the Lakers.

The Warriors winning a championship with their small ball antics isn't a reason to hate them IMO. They started a new trend just like the Heat and Spurs did prior to them. Pistons and Lakers before that. Mavericks. etc.

This fad won't be a long lasting one IMO, but it remains to be seen. In the mean time, you control what you can and that is drafting a quality player at 8 which fits with what Vlade and Dave want to do this season and down the road too. After that, you address your PG need, even if one is drafted. Free agency and trade is the next step. Again, do not bring in someone just because they are a good player, that player has to fit with what you, as a team, collectively, want to do in order to reach the mountain top and not be enamored with the current fad of chucking threes at a alarming rate that no other team can replicate, well....they can, just won't make them at the rate the Warriors do. Don't become something you are not. It goes back to what I said yesterday...do you want to be the Alpha or do you want to be the sheep?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I continue to be of the opinion that how you play defense is much more important than how you get buckets. A lot of people believe that what you need to compete in the 'modern' NBA is bigs who can shoot threes. I believe that what you really need to win in the 'modern' NBA is bigs who can guard bigs who can shoot threes. Execution and commitment are the two most important factors to offense, IMO. If the players execute, and they are all committed to the offense, then just about any offense can win in basketball.

As that pertains to the Kings, I agree that Cousins is most effective in the high post: that's where he has the best opportunity to take advantage of his mobility and footwork to beat his defender, without giving the help time to set up around the basket. Shooters will help space the floor, but what we really need IMO is an offense that keeps players in motion, particularly one that will move the defense away from the strong side. Preferably something with a lot of backdoor action.

 

[dude12]

Add lennnnnnngggggggttttthhhhhh to the roster like GS. Iguodala, Klay, Barnes, Livingston, Green. That is something that we can replicate from the Warriors. One reason we liked Gay when he played for Malone, length at the SF spot. I'm for this as opposed to the small backcourt that Karl used.

 

[jcwkings]

One elephant in the room that has to be pointed out as that we as Kings fans crucified Karl for the switching defense. Well the Thunder pushed the Warriors to the limit by doing exactly that. Maybe in the regular season you can get away with playing man to man most of game and no switching, but at the level they were playing the WCF that was the only way OKC was going to compete.

 

[twslam07]

One elephant in the room that has to be pointed out as that we as Kings fans crucified Karl for the switching defense. Well the Thunder pushed the Warriors to the limit by doing exactly that. Maybe in the regular season you can get away with playing man to man most of game and no switching, but at the level they were playing the WCF that was the only way OKC was going to compete.

???

I don't think many of us have problems with switching. It's the UNNECESSARY switching that was happening under Karl that was idiotic. You'd see a player on the opposing team just casually running to his spot on the floor and our guys would switch for no apparent reason. All you had to do was take a couple steps more and voila! You're still guarding him. Who would have thought?

But for some reason our guys wanted to intentionally give the other team a mismatch despite the opposing team not really trying to create one. Karl is a buffoon.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Karl was crucified for switching on defense largely because he was playing a three-guard lineup a lot of the time.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

One elephant in the room that has to be pointed out as that we as Kings fans crucified Karl for the switching defense. Well the Thunder pushed the Warriors to the limit by doing exactly that..

As Slim pointed out, there's a big difference between switching with small guards and doing the same with the long and athletic lineups the Thunder were able to field. Night and day difference.

 

[Sac.1989]

I disagree. He is best in the mid-range area. A speed mismatch for most centers and a height/strength mismatch for everyone else.

I don't think this whole sub looks down on a certain style of play. It's just that we've tried to be fast and it didn't work because our players don't have the skill-sets to do so. The large part of why the Warriors win is because they use their skill-set the best, not because they have the "right" skill-set. For example, do you see Shaun Livingston shooting 3s? No, he is in the post/mid-range, where he should be, and he is darn effective at it.

leverage demarcus. He has plenty of 'strength' areas all within the 3 point line. He's not someone you park in the paint because to your point that would be misusing his immense skillset but he does shoot some of his highest percentage shots there.

 

[ockingsfan]

How to beat the Warriors?

Very Simple.

Play to your strengths, not the Warriors strengths.

I see it time and time again. Teams keep trying to trade 3 pointers and run with them, instead of pounding the ball inside and taking high percentage shots.

Hello NBA, you are never going to beat the Warriors in their own game. Stop playing into the Warriors trap. You need to keep pounding the ball inside and stop jacking up 3's, just because the Warriors do. Play solid Defense and guard the 3 pointers and take high percentage shots.

As the old saying goes, you lives by the Three, then you will die by the Three.

Play smart smash-mouth and fundamental Basketball and solid Defense and you will have a good chance of beating the Warriors.

 

[VF21]

...Do that, and your competing with the Warriors. Who I like by the way, and don't understand how anyone can hate a team that's as good as they are. Envy I can understand!

We have a whole other thread for that in the NBA forum.

 

[VF21]

How to beat the Warriors?

Very Simple.

Play to your strengths, not the Warriors strengths.

I see it time and time again. Teams keep trying to trade 3 pointers and run with them, instead of pounding the ball inside and taking high percentage shots.

Hello NBA, you are never going to beat the Warriors in their own game. Stop playing into the Warriors trap. You need to keep pounding the ball inside and stop jacking up 3's, just because the Warriors do. Play solid Defense and guard the 3 pointers and take high percentage shots.

As the old saying goes, you lives by the Three, then you will die by the Three.

Play smart smash-mouth and fundamental Basketball and solid Defense and you will have a good chance of beating the Warriors.

I'd add one thing:

Make sure you FOUL them if you're going to put them on the line. No little girl love taps; make them realize what a hard foul is all about.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I agree that the key for the Kings is mainly on the defensive end.
One thing I realized, when watching the Warriors (thanks wife for making me do that ) is that you have the best chance to limit their stars when your big steps out all the way to the body of Steph or Klay and is not afraid to guard them on switches. KAT and LMA did a very good job in that regard. Adams tried it during the PO too.
Now both KAT and LMA are pretty mobile for their size, while Cousins seems to be more reluctant to come out of his comfort zone close to the basket and is foul prone when guarding smaller guys, because he like to reach in order to get a steal.
So the question is, if there is another way to limit the Warriors, which allows us to keep Cousins more in the paint on D and prevents him getting in foul trouble?

 

[KingMilz]

What is our strength? Aside from one 15 game stretch where we were 3 games over 500. I have not seen anything to clearly say what our strength is or if the strength is even capable of working.

 

[KingsFanGER]

What is our strength? Aside from one 15 game stretch where we were 3 games over 500. I have not seen anything to clearly say what our strength is or if the strength is even capable of working.

I think our strength is, that we have one of the 3 modern era, versatile and potentially dominant bigs on our roster. And we have an extremely mobile 7 footer to play alongside Cousins in Willie.
So potentially we have stellar length, scoring and defense at our frontcourt, if we find a way to keep Cousins on the floor against more mobile opponents.
Our frontcourt is versatile and doesn't need a lot of work through FA, the draft or trades.

 

[King Baller]

You need 9 players who can start for most teams and 3 others who would play significant minutes for most teams. Brandon Rush barely plays for the W's and he would probably be the starting 2 guard if he was a King. So the Kings need to add 4 or 5 players really good players. They need to be tall and play stellar defense.

Reminds me of the story about a conversation Danny Ainge had with Coach Reynolds when he was playing for the Kings years ago. Jerry told Ainge what a great game he had but Ainge said he knew why the Kings were losing. It was that he, Ainge was the Kings best player and in Boston he was 3rd or 4th best.

 

[ESP47]

We can't compete with these teams at all unless we get lucky and wind up drafting a top 10 player. That's probably not going to happen so the Kings need to just focus on getting into the playoffs.

Our roster would get absolutely destroyed on defense. I can't think of a single player on our team other than Cousins who could compete defensively against these teams right now. Watching these guys in the playoffs turn up the intensity and really start trying....they would make our defense an even bigger joke than it already is. Klay Thompson absolutely crapped all over Andre Roberson who was playing incredible defense. Just imagine what he would have done against our guards? The problem is that we aren't even in a position to start a guy like Roberson because even with all his defensive clout, he has almost no offensive game. He goes from a very important piece in the Thunders lineup to a rich mans Mbah a Moute for us.

I'm hoping Joerger kicks this teams collective asses into gear because our defense is so insanely lazy compared to what these teams in the playoffs are doing. I know you can't have that intensity for 82 games a year but teams routinely do it in the 4th quarter to eek out wins night in and night out. It's going to take a very good coach and over half the roster being completely overhauled to get it done. Problem is that we don't have a ton of trade pieces and no one wants to sign here. We're going to need to get very lucky in this draft and hope one of the solid guards drops to us and becomes a premier player.

 

[lawlman91]

How to beat the Warriors?

Very Simple.

Play to your strengths, not the Warriors strengths.

I see it time and time again. Teams keep trying to trade 3 pointers and run with them, instead of pounding the ball inside and taking high percentage shots.

Hello NBA, you are never going to beat the Warriors in their own game. Stop playing into the Warriors trap. You need to keep pounding the ball inside and stop jacking up 3's, just because the Warriors do. Play solid Defense and guard the 3 pointers and take high percentage shots.

As the old saying goes, you lives by the Three, then you will die by the Three.

Play smart smash-mouth and fundamental Basketball and solid Defense and you will have a good chance of beating the Warriors.

This playoffs I see the Warriors pounding the ball inside on mismatches, actually. Even isoing in the mid-range. Some styles of basketball will just never die.

 

[Larry89]

I feel the Thunder also lost against the Warriors because they didnt play Enes Kanter more and went small with Durant at the 4. That and them go full hero ball mode

 

[pshn80]

Build strength and let he changed league worry about us.

 

[206Fan]

I feel the Thunder also lost against the Warriors because they didnt play Enes Kanter more and went small with Durant at the 4. That and them go full hero ball mode

They won their first 3 game with Durant at the 4 though. Honestly, Durant and Westbrook just choked. I saw lots of poor coaching down the stretch by Donovan... especially inexplicably not calling timeouts to run set plays. Westbrook and Durant are cold... have repeatedly turned it over... it's potentially the final possession of the game.... you're going to go ahead and let them jack up ANOTHER shot instead of drawing up a play?

This is not college. We see this type of attitude in a lot of college basketball games... that's why there's so many half-court buzzer beaters.