How did we manage to do this to ourselves... twice? (pick swaps)

[Siranthony]

This is just a nightmare.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/2/...rade-rumors-pau-gasol-draft-pick-sixers-bulls

I knew this situation was bad enough before. But we doubled down on it this year. Or am I wrong. Maybe someone could explain it.

This quote says it pretty well I think.

"This isn’t quite true. The Sixers also have the Kings’ 2018 first rounder, which is top-10 protected in 2018 and unprotected in 2019 but can only convey in 2018 if the Kings give their first rounder to the Bulls in 2016. So any trade that reduces the protection on the Bulls pick this year doesn’t impact the Sixers this year, but it makes it more likely that they end up with a 2018 top-10 protected pick instead of a 2019 unprotected pick. Given DMC’s contract expires in 2018, that could be a problem for the Sixers.

by BHolly on Feb 18, 2016 | 11:15 AM"

If I read this right then.... If we finish outside the bottom 10 this year, Chicago gets our FRP. Then the Sixers will also get our 2018 pick if we finish outside the bottom 10 that year. OR we can keep our pick this year if we fall inside the bottom 10 but Chicago will have a shot at our pick next year if we don't fall in the bottom 10 next year. AND the Sixers WILL get our 2019 first round pick.

It looks like even if we lose our pick this year, we will still be in the same situation in 2018. If we keep our pick this year then we lose 2019 and could lose 2018. The best case scenario is to stay in the bottom 10 this year and next year. Then give up a 2nd to Chicago and a first to Sixers. I'm not saying we should do that.

So we are looking for free agents at this point I guess.

 

[gilly420]

Idiots have been running the show here for the last 5+ years. Pretty much sums it up.

 

[KingMilz]

The pick swap won't matter cause the core of Cousins/Gay/Rondo is just going to lead us most likely to a complete rebuild unless we move Gay/Rondo in the summer and get some hard nosed competitors along with a coach who gives a crap and actually hire a GM who knows what he's doing.

 

[andjel]

The best scenario is to stay out of bottom ten and give first round picks this year and in two years and be done.

Your scenario probably would cost us Cousins.
Edit: as per quote and no capability of predicting the future availability of the firs round pick, your scenario is not even possible. The only way we can give 2018 pick is if we give 2016 pick.

 

[KingsFanGER]

The pick swap won't matter cause the core of Cousins/Gay/Rondo is just going to lead us most likely to a complete rebuild unless we move Gay/Rondo in the summer and get some hard nosed competitors along with a coach who gives a poopoo and actually hire a GM who knows what he's doing.

I agree. This team will head nowhere, unless we manage to get players, who defend, shoot and play hard every game. And I'm tired of the "But Karl...." excuse.
I'm on board with moving Gay in the offseason. I do think, that the Cousins+Rondo combination looks promising on offense. And even though I don't understand why players like Rondo or Gay aren't above average defenders, I think we should be able to hide one of them, if the rest of the team covers for their weakness. So if we got no shot at Conley or another PG, who is a plus defender (Schröder?), I'm ok with keeping Rondo.

What really bothers me is, that so far the Kings have been unable to strengthen their defensive personell outside of drafting WCS and signing Acy. It was crystal clear, that the main area of concern with this team was/is defense.
Ok we missed the Wes signing. But watching Harkless getting traded to Portland for a 2nd rounder, Stephenson dumped to the Grizzlies (Yes he is a headcase, but he plays hard) or some teams making something out of nothing with guys like Jonathan Simmons is beyond frustrating.
As a small market we need to be smarter. Everybody is after the big names and the chances we are able to sign them are slim. But you bet, there are players out there, who can defend and shoot, that are overlooked by a lot of teams and are desperate for a chance. We need to stop wasting roster spots for guys like Dukan or Butler and start giving them to players, who fit our needs.
Going forward I think strengthening the scouting department and getting personell able to develop players is key, especially if we keep in mind, that most likely there will be a time after DMC.
The foundations of the eventual rebuild need to be layed down now or it will take another 10 years, before we are able to reach the PO.

 

[Siranthony]

I agree. This team will head nowhere, unless we manage to get players, who defend, shoot and play hard every game. And I'm tired of the "But Karl...." excuse.
I'm on board with moving Gay in the offseason. I do think, that the Cousins+Rondo combination looks promising on offense. And even though I don't understand why players like Rondo or Gay aren't above average defenders, I think we should be able to hide one of them, if the rest of the team covers for their weakness. So if we got no shot at Conley or another PG, who is a plus defender (Schröder?), I'm ok with keeping Rondo.

What really bothers me is, that so far the Kings have been unable to strengthen their defensive personell outside of drafting WCS and signing Acy. It was crystal clear, that the main area of concern with this team was/is defense.
Ok we missed the Wes signing. But watching Harkless getting traded to Portland for a 2nd rounder, Stephenson dumped to the Grizzlies (Yes he is a headcase, but he plays hard) or some teams making something out of nothing with guys like Jonathan Simmons is beyond frustrating.
As a small market we need to be smarter. Everybody is after the big names and the chances we are able to sign them are slim. But you bet, there are players out there, who can defend and shoot, that are overlooked by a lot of teams and are desperate for a chance. We need to stop wasting roster spots for guys like Dukan or Butler and start giving them to players, who fit our needs.
Going forward I think strengthening the scouting department and getting personell able to develop players is key, especially if we keep in mind, that most likely there will be a time after DMC.
The foundations of the eventual rebuild need to be layed down now or it will take another 10 years, before we are able to reach the PO.

Yes that makes sense. We need to make the roster we have work or trade parts to make it work. Our draft future is not good any way you slice it. We can't afford to lose any more with the arena and keeping Cousins past this contract.

I hope we can get our players to play defense. Otherwise we can only try to outscore our opponents.

Another idea is a big trade to get many pieces and or draft picks. I wouldn't be against a rebuild if we have a plan and make progress. This problem with less than 30 wins every year with no progress is getting old.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

vivek wants to desperately make the playoffs at all costs. that's all folks.

 

[ESP47]

I think that article is overly dramatic for the situation. It's not as dire as they are making it seem. We have a solid roster of guys who are capable of getting into those 7th and 8th seeds. Most of our solid players are locked up for 2-3 years. We will have some money for free agency. We just need a coach who actually coaches.

 

[gilly420]

I think that article is overly dramatic for the situation. It's not as dire as they are making it seem. We have a solid roster of guys who are capable of getting into those 7th and 8th seeds. Most of our solid players are locked up for 2-3 years. We will have some money for free agency. We just need a coach who actually coaches.

What games have you been watching this year??? This team is far from contending for anything but mediocrity as constructed now. More of the same is unacceptable to me.

 

[Iced Espresso]

It may be easier to comprehend in a listed format.

2016 If it is 11-30 it goes to Chicago. Philly has swap option
2017 11-30 to Chicago but if not conveyed Chicago gets a 2nd round pick. Philly swap option

2018 11-30 it goes to Philly only if we send out our 2016 to Chicago. Can't send a pick out back to back years but can swap picks in between years is why its confusing
2019 Unprotected to Philly. They get it if they were not able to acquire it in 2018

Real simple way to put it

2 years of swap options for Philly, lose the pick after 10 this year or next. In 2018 or 2019 lose a pick to Philly.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It looks like even if we lose our pick this year, we will still be in the same situation in 2018. If we keep our pick this year then we lose 2019 and could lose 2018.

That's not correct. We will lose either the 2018 or 2019 pick to Philly, but not both. If they get 2018, they do not get 2019.

If we keep our pick this year AND convey our 2017 pick to Chicago, we lose 2019, but keep 2018.

If we keep our pick this year AND keep our pick in 2017 (conveying a second round pick to Chicago), Philly is eligible to receive 2018, and if they do not, they receive 2019. This is the same scenario that holds for Philly if we convey our pick to Chicago this year.

 

[John Galt]

So then, we are basically free to suck until 2019, which is right up our alley. KANGZ can do that. Being one of the 10 worst teams in the league comes naturally.

In 2019 we need to somehow "not suck". That will be the hard part, but at least we've got some time to work up to it.

 

[Merdiesel]

I'm so tired of looking back on past mistakes. They ****ed up. We get it, now move on and play basketball.

This a capable roster. We're not facing the Western Conference gauntlet of years past. This team just needs to play to their ability and compete every night. Enough excuses. Coaches, players, front office... I'm just sick of these ****ing unprofessional clowns dragging my team through the ****. Find the idiot who is leaking to the press every move this franchise makes and put his head on a stick. Hire a GM and bring in a coach with a pulse. The first player to stand flat footed and show they truly don't give a **** on defense needs to be benched until they get it. I don't care who it is. This is our biggest problem and we are not talented enough for guys to just opt out or play when they want. This team from the top down has been a disgrace to our city and should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Bricklayer]

1) its really still that Casspi/Hickson deal. I have been rooting for us to lose our pick for YEARS just to finally get rid of that thing. Its been an eternal hindrance.

2) thing is though with all the over drama -- there are 29 other teams in the NBA, and the only reason this came up again was because by some crapty Kings-style luck, the one player the front office really wanted happened to be on the one team that happens to own those right snow. 1 in 29 is about 3-4% odds, and we just happened to get burned by a 3-4% chance occurrence. And it wasn't even the team we originally gave those rights to.

On principle alone I'd like to lose that pick this year. For a team to make a relatively innocuous wink wink nudge nudge trade protection trade like that, where OBVIOUSLY you don't worry about it because OBVIOUSLY every team works its way back into respectability on a predictable cycle, and then have it die off 6 years later because you never got un-pathetic is just, well, pathetic.

 

[funkykingston]

With the Kings falling apart this season and Colangelo installed in Philly I think there's now a much better chance of the Kings swapping picks next off season than I thought there would be.

 

[bajaden]

I think that article is overly dramatic for the situation. It's not as dire as they are making it seem. We have a solid roster of guys who are capable of getting into those 7th and 8th seeds. Most of our solid players are locked up for 2-3 years. We will have some money for free agency. We just need a coach who actually coaches.

If you or anyone thinks that all this team needs is a Phil Jackson or the equivalent thereof, to lead us to a championship, your crazy. No offense intended, but this team is a long way from a championship, and with the future being as restrictive as it is, I can't see where any big changes can come from without breaking up the current core. Yes, we'll have cap space this summer, but so will just about every other team in the league, and most will have far more than us. The lakers are going to have around 66 mil in cap space. Who do you think is going to attract more free agents, the Lakers or us?

We have forfeited our future for the now. This desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year has caused Vlade and the organization to do desperate things which will eventually come back to bite us in the butt. I know some fans don't care about draft picks. That you can't build a team through the draft. Tell that to the Warriors who drafted almost all of their core players. There's nothing wrong with the draft. If there's a problem, its usually with the person doing the picking. 95% of all the players in the NBA were drafted by someone. My greatest fear is that were about to become the Hawks of the next decade. Just good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to advance past the first round, and without the cap space or draft picks to make a significant change.

 

[Section 101]

We have forfeited our future for the now. This desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year has caused Vlade and the organization to do desperate things which will eventually come back to bite us in the butt. I know some fans don't care about draft picks. That you can't build a team through the draft. Tell that to the Warriors who drafted almost all of their core players. There's nothing wrong with the draft. If there's a problem, its usually with the person doing the picking. 95% of all the players in the NBA were drafted by someone. My greatest fear is that were about to become the Hawks of the next decade. Just good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to advance past the first round, and without the cap space or draft picks to make a significant change.

The near future was shot well before this year. It goes back to 2011. If your building by the draft it's going to take 5 years to build and can't make the Jimmer, Robinson mistakes in the process.

 

[andjel]

If you or anyone thinks that all this team needs is a Phil Jackson or the equivalent thereof, to lead us to a championship, your crazy. No offense intended, but this team is a long way from a championship, and with the future being as restrictive as it is, I can't see where any big changes can come from without breaking up the current core. Yes, we'll have cap space this summer, but so will just about every other team in the league, and most will have far more than us. The lakers are going to have around 66 mil in cap space. Who do you think is going to attract more free agents, the Lakers or us?

We have forfeited our future for the now. This desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year has caused Vlade and the organization to do desperate things which will eventually come back to bite us in the butt. I know some fans don't care about draft picks. That you can't build a team through the draft. Tell that to the Warriors who drafted almost all of their core players. There's nothing wrong with the draft. If there's a problem, its usually with the person doing the picking. 95% of all the players in the NBA were drafted by someone. My greatest fear is that were about to become the Hawks of the next decade. Just good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to advance past the first round, and without the cap space or draft picks to make a significant change.

I am might be missing something, but what forfeiting future are you talking about? Desparate things?

All I see is one draft pick being sacrificed, unless Stauskas was our future or we count on winning the lottery.

In return, while not great destination (yet), we are much more attractive for free agents next year than if the trade was not done.
Not a single bad long term contract, and team on paper is much better.

 

[ESP47]

If you or anyone thinks that all this team needs is a Phil Jackson or the equivalent thereof, to lead us to a championship, your crazy. No offense intended, but this team is a long way from a championship, and with the future being as restrictive as it is, I can't see where any big changes can come from without breaking up the current core. Yes, we'll have cap space this summer, but so will just about every other team in the league, and most will have far more than us. The lakers are going to have around 66 mil in cap space. Who do you think is going to attract more free agents, the Lakers or us?

We have forfeited our future for the now. This desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year has caused Vlade and the organization to do desperate things which will eventually come back to bite us in the butt. I know some fans don't care about draft picks. That you can't build a team through the draft. Tell that to the Warriors who drafted almost all of their core players. There's nothing wrong with the draft. If there's a problem, its usually with the person doing the picking. 95% of all the players in the NBA were drafted by someone. My greatest fear is that were about to become the Hawks of the next decade. Just good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to advance past the first round, and without the cap space or draft picks to make a significant change.

Coaching is absolutely holding us back. Freelancing offense mixed with a defense that is coached to either switch or guard blank areas of the court. A halfway capable coach would have this team at .500 right now at the very least.

I never said anything about championships. I said our current roster is capable of getting us into the 7th or 8th seeds. Yeah they'll be first round exits against the Spurs or Warriors but it's a hell of a lot better than watching from the couch.

 

[bajaden]

The near future was shot well before this year. It goes back to 2011. If your building by the draft it's going to take 5 years to build and can't make the Jimmer, Robinson mistakes in the process.

I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean you abandon all plans for the future. At this point, it doesn't matter now we got where we are, unless your into commiseration. When you dig yourself into a hole, you have to start digging your way out. The longer you take to start, the longer the process will be. The minute I heard this referendum of "we have to have a winner moving into a new stadium", I got nervous. That's putting a lot of pressure on management to do something that previous GM's etc, failed to do for the past ten years. To think that Vlade is going to accomplish it in one year is unrealistic, and leads to desperate moves. Desperate moves many times turn into damaging moves.

Unless you get lucky, there aren't any shortcuts. Some could argue that Ainge turned the Celtics around in one year. But in truth, what happened that one offseason was the cumulation of a process started 3 to 4 years sooner. The Celtics are going through a similar process now. We'll see if it works twice for them. But I think I can argue that except for our having Cousins, the Celts are in a far better and more flexible position than we are. I have my idea's on what I think the Kings should do, but I'm not the GM and what I think doesn't matter. Besides, I'm tired of arguing.

 

[bajaden]

Coaching is absolutely holding us back. Freelancing offense mixed with a defense that is coached to either switch or guard blank areas of the court. A halfway capable coach would have this team at .500 right now at the very least.

I never said anything about championships. I said our current roster is capable of getting us into the 7th or 8th seeds. Yeah they'll be first round exits against the Spurs or Warriors but it's a hell of a lot better than watching from the couch.

I didn't say I was in love with the coaching. I said that if anyone thought that coaching was the only thing between us and a championship, then their crazy. I don't have a problem with grabbing the 7th or 8th seed, as long as there's a way going forward toward a championship. A tweak here or there. But this team as it currently stands will need a lot more than a tweak or two. Just making the playoffs in and of itself has little meaning to me unless it's a step to an eventual run at a championship. Grabbing the 8th spot every year is putting yourself in limbo. We're not there yet, but we could be headed in that direction.

You hate Karl and want a coaching change, fine! I'm not arguing against that. A new coach may even get us into the playoffs. But there's a lot more wrong with this team than Karl.

 

[bajaden]

I am might be missing something, but what forfeiting future are you talking about? Desparate things?

All I see is one draft pick being sacrificed, unless Stauskas was our future or we count on winning the lottery.

In return, while not great destination (yet), we are much more attractive for free agents next year than if the trade was not done.
Not a single bad long term contract, and team on paper is much better.

I would have rather kept Stauskas, but I'm not crying in my milk over his departure. But besides giving Philly the right to switch draftpicks with us, we also promised them a future 1st round pick, to go along with the 1st round pick we already owe the Bulls. So as it stands now, were going to lose two out of the next four 1st round picks. And, if by some freak of nature, we were to win the lottery, guess who will end up with that pick? As it stands now, that's probably the only way Philly would switch picks with us.

We'll have around 21 or 22 mil to work with in the offseason, but that's before we resign Rondo, if indeed we intend to resign him. I personally have mixed emotions about him. I'm not sure his positives outweigh his negatives. It's not my decision, but if given the chance, I'd try and resign him if I can get him for the right price. Problem is, I'm pretty sure that my right price is not his right price. If we were to resign him for, say 11 mil a year, that would leave us around 10 mil left to work with. Not a lot of money to make a significant change. I don't see the team getting any better without moving some of the current pieces in trades. Trades are always tricky. Are you really improving yourself by removing this player and adding that one. They always look good on paper. Just like Belinelli did......

 

[kingsboi]

The Kings are losers and that loser mentality trumps everything because as an organization, that is all the city knows. How long were the Clippers bad for and messing up draft pick after draft pick while playing second fiddle to the Lakers for decades? I use the Clippers example only because they were bad and for a very long time, the Kings are headed down that direction with no positives in sight. You don't trade draft picks like the Kings have done and not just that...you don't miss as epic as the Kings have done as well, passing up on a lot of talented/all-star players for players who are either out of the league, end of the bench players or heading down one of the two options. The motto for the Kings should be "Once a loser, always a loser" it fits them to a tee.

 

[VF21]

The Kings are losers and that loser mentality trumps everything because as an organization, that is all the city knows. How long were the Clippers bad for and messing up draft pick after draft pick while playing second fiddle to the Lakers for decades? I use the Clippers example only because they were bad and for a very long time, the Kings are headed down that direction with no positives in sight. You don't trade draft picks like the Kings have done and not just that...you don't miss as epic as the Kings have done as well, passing up on a lot of talented/all-star players for players who are either out of the league, end of the bench players or heading down one of the two options. The motto for the Kings should be "Once a loser, always a loser" it fits them to a tee.

The Clippers were a mess for years because Donald Sterling flat out refused to spend any money.

 

[kingsboi]

The Clippers were a mess for years because Donald Sterling flat out refused to spend any money.

What about the Warriors then?

 

[lwc]

Just to make sure I read this correctly, if the Kings want a lottery pick in the next four years, they need to ensure that they are in the bottom 10 this season. Yikes! One would have to hope that either Ben develops, Marco can turn it around, or we can sign a key free agent, or get a steal of a trade.

 

[Bricklayer]

We missed on our draft picks. That's what messed up the rebuild. Despite everything else it really is that simple. We partially hit on Tyreke (althoguh obviously Curry was out there). We hit on Cuz. We drafted a late round steal in IT. That was it. All 5+ year old news.

PDA or Vivek dumped both Reke and IT. One I supported, One I did not. But the larger issue was that after all those years of drafting those guys shouldn't have been so high in our thoughts anyway. The rebuild would have looked just fine if we draft Kawhi, Klay or even Kemba, instead of Jimmer or if we had drafted Lillard or Drummond rather than TRob, or McCollum or Giannis instead of Ben, and we'd probably feel a whole lot better if we drafted Payton or LaVine instead of Stauskas.

But we did none of those things, and in all of those years since we drafted Cousins until this year the only credible NBA talent we had drafted was a 5'9" gunning combo guard.

Now unfortunately we could not just stick Cuz in cryo waiting until we finally did something smart on draft night, So he's getting older, so is the fanbase, new owner, new building, at some point you just have to say well the rebuild is, er, done. Or at least we are done trying, and go about it another way. That's just the way it worked out. But Cuz is such a huge star that you will always be just one piece from mattering as long as you have him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Just to make sure I read this correctly, if the Kings want a lottery pick in the next four years, they need to ensure that they are in the bottom 10 this season. Yikes! One would have to hope that either Ben develops, Marco can turn it around, or we can sign a key free agent, or get a steal of a trade.

Which is the work. All the normal stuff. We should have been out of the lottery years ago. Only the very worst run franchises in NBA hsitory can say they've been drafting in the lottery for 7,8,9, 10 straight years.

 

[kingsboi]

Which is the work. All the normal stuff. We should have been out of the lottery years ago. Only the very worst run franchises in NBA hsitory can say they've been drafting in the lottery for 7,8,9, 10 straight years.

Minnesota will be drafting in the lottery for 11 straight years so there's that at least...maybe they will be better before the Kings will.

 

[hrdboild]

We've painted ourselves into a difficult spot, there's no doubt about that. The mandate was to win this season and that hasn't happened despite maxing out the cap and trading future picks. The main question going forward is going to be -- Is this the ceiling for a Rondo/Gay/Cousins led lineup? I really don't think so, but it's tough to say because we haven't seen all three of them clicking at once this season. There's always been an injury or a suspension or a shooting slump holding at least one of them back. And then there's the whole issue of our defense just giving the other team open jumpers all game long. These guys have been selected to multiple All-Star games (Cousins, Rondo), won an NBA championship (Rondo), competed for team USA (Cousins, Gay) and been selected for 4 straight All-Defense teams (Rondo) ... I find it hard to believe that they're incapable of playing defense together.

Regarding cap space, there have been reports the last couple weeks that the projected salary cap for next season is going to be higher than expected -- about 92 million. That gives us about 27 million in cap space if everyone opts in, which could go as high as 35 million if we can move Kosta Koufos as part of a sign and trade or something. Backup bigs are going to start earning $15 million a year (see Tristan Thompson) so I don't think that deal will be hard to move if we decide to do that. And while Koufos is a decent bench big, PF is one of the few positions where we could try to lure in a big free agent with a starting gig and keep the current core. At 27-35 million we may have the money to offer someone like Al Horford a max deal and keep Rondo. If we do that, Cauley-Stein becomes your third big and we don't need to pay Koufos 8-9 million a year to play 12 minutes as the 4th big in the rotation.

Granted you're going to have to convince free agents that all the rumors about Sacramento's dysfunction are greatly exaggerated -- no easy task. We really shot ourselves in the foot in the image department the last 2 years and it's not like we were a big free agent draw to begin with. A brand new downtown arena with state of the art training facilities should have some positive effect. Rondo/Gay/Cousins as a core should have some pull with other players looking to compete unless they all want out too in which case we're really screwed. And then there's the issue of how you're going to get a coach to come in here now, and whether you can even get players to sign here with so much confusion about the coaching situation.

So yeah, lots to figure out as we wind down the season. I don't think it's time to completely give up hope on having a successful season next year in the new arena, but the confusion around the trade deadline this year -- so many players rumored to be asking for trades, the bizarre decision to keep George Karl but fire his lead assistant -- is making an already difficult task look even harder.