Harry Giles article: By, Harry Giles

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by bajaden, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    So in your world the ONLY way to get better is to play?!
    Tetsujin and VF21 like this.
  2. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    You think players can only get better if they play in NBA games?

    What’s the point of practice? What’s the point of training camp? What’s the point of being the first one in the gym and the last to leave?

    Giles can certainly continue to improve his game without playing a NBA game this season.
  3. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    The practice his getting is more impactful than what he was doing a Duke
  4. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Hardly. I think that getting better through practice is secondary to playing actual games. Eventually, you have to test yourself against real competition, and from many such tests (and practice) you'll get better as a player.
  5. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Not to mention that sometimes you just want to bang against someone other than your teammates.
    Kingster likes this.
  6. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    I think a lot of legendary coaches will very much disagree with this.

    I remember Predrag Danilovic a legendary European player talking about Pat Riley's practices while he was playing for Miami back in the 90s. He said the practices were brutal and players looked towards playing games because they would be easy compared to practices. He said that he learnt more in practices during his career. Games are there to put what you learnt in practices to the test. It haves 1000s of hours to develop a skill to the point where you feel comfortable to use it in game situation.

    Giles is learning a lot. At some point he will start putting those skills to the test in the actual game but in the meantime, he is still working on his games, developing aspects of his games. He is not there sitting court side and drinking soda. He is developing skills that he needs to develop before he tries those skills in game situation against competition.
  7. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    You raise legitimate questions 206. I think this is about having a "diamond in the rough" and wanting to treat it preciously. If you envision a guy as a many time all-star and a 10-year career plus do you want to rush him by 6 months? HELL NO!

    Recovering from a double ACL is physical AND psychological process. I tore my ACL 20 years ago at age 21. I have full confidence in my knee but it was a 2-year process and it was before surgical advancements that exist nowadays. If you have a "prized investment" you want to protect it. Thats what I think the Kings are doing. You could say they are being overly conservative. This may be true but so be it.

    Here's the most recent video that gives some good insight into what this kid can do. What I see is tremendous length and agility. Light years ahead of Willie and better than Skal. He gets low into his defensive crouch and hounds and moves laterally. And he has tremendous footwork and a SUPER HIGH release point. I see a guy who has superior coordination and instinct for the ball .

    When he dunks the ball it looks like he is doing so on a 9 foot rim!!!

    The C-Webb comparisons I think are rooted in the hands and feet and mobility. The guy has total stud capabilities. Look how efficient his moves are. He has like ZERO body fat too.

    No reason to rush future HOF greatness. ;-)

  8. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    He was clearly rushed back at Duke can someone look up how long you’re supposed to be out for his surgery. No way 6 weeks was enough. Him getting his leg strong plus competing in practice will build up his confidence
  9. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    On the KHTK drive show at 2:00, I forget who said it but the topic of Giles came up and he was wondering if he was going to play in January......during this conversation, he said he had watched Giles yesterday at practice. You could tell in his voice that there is something special about him. Beyond the moves, fluidity, IQ...though Giles had a little nasty in him too.

    Cautiously optimistic that we got something special in Giles. Can't wait to see him but I don't think we see him this year as they go the route of Embiid, Simmons, Blake Griffin in their first years and hold him out.
    ockingsfan likes this.
  10. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    a player with nasty in him? I love hearing that. I'll believe it when I see it on the court though.
    VF21 likes this.
  11. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    Looking like a young Dwight Howard.
  12. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I'm glad you brought that up. I think people who haven't had some kind of knee problems don't understand the mental block.
    lwc, Blob and biltalent like this.
  13. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I hope not.

    Dwight was a good power player but he had zero game outside of 5 feet, no outside shot or free throw shooting whatsoever.

    I'm hoping Giles develops into C Webb type all around game. He looks like he may be able to step back and hit the 3 pointer in time.

    If Giles can regain his pre-injury form and stay healthy, we may be looking at a Fox - Giles All-Star tandem for the next 10 years, if we are lucky! :)
    King Baller and Telemachus like this.
  14. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I think you are confusing matters. Games may be there to be what you learned in practice, but they are ALSO there to learn from in and of themselves. If you find a quote by Riley or Wooden or another coach that disagrees with THAT then let me know. Just from a commonsense point of view, you can't practice against the entire NBA; you only practice either by yourself or with your team mates. Your team mates do not represent the entire NBA. They are a very small fraction of the NBA and do not represent all the strengths and weaknesses that you will find playing against other NBA teams. Do you learn more against playing against better or worse players? Better. Does the current Kings consist of the better or best players in the NBA? No, it doesn't. They will get better from practice, but they also need the competition of playing against players that are better than themselves. This cannot occur playing against themselves.
  15. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    you hope not? really? with the 20th pick I'll gladly take a double double machine in the mold of a Dwight Howard to anchor a defense.
    Bosnian Diehard likes this.
  16. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Your point is absolutely correct but only after.
    1. You are confident that the health is at 100% AND
    2. The skills have been developed enough in practice where the player can play at a level in the NBA where their confidence doesn't get destroyed.

    My view on the situation is:
    1. Knees are fine since Giles is constantly working on his game, traveling with the team and practicing with the team including the contact drills. But being cautious for an extra 6 months is not going to disadvantage Giles in any way especially since (see point 2)
    2. I think the Kings believe that his overall basketball SKILLS need more work. This is the kid that has lost two years of development and even in high school, it was more about his tools than it was about his skills level.

    Given all that, I see absolutely no harm (in fact I see more benefit) is practically "red shirting" Giles for a year but during that year make sure you:
    • strengthen his leg muscles including muscles around his knee more importantly
    • you put a mountain of development work into him in that year where he constantly works on his game with his assistant coaches and team mates
    • get him to put those skills he develops to the test in practice against his team mates before he raises it up a notch and starts putting them to the test against other NBA competition.
    From all reports, Kings are doing all of the above which places Giles into a good spot to succeed. There is a minute crunch as it is now and that would only be even more difficult if you add Giles to the mix. I suspect what we will see is the Kings roll with what they have this year and then have two rookies next year to add to the rotation in Giles and whoever they draft this year.

    By next season, Skal will be in year 3 and ZBo will be relegated to the sporadic Vince Carter type role. Kosta is unlikely to be here so all of a sudden there are minutes there for Giles and Papagiannis if he ever develops.
    206Fan, ockingsfan, pshn80 and 3 others like this.
  17. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    Temple was just doing an interview on 1140 and they asked him about Giles.

    He said Giles is the best rookie on the team when it comes to listening and wanting to learn. He said he already really knows the game of basketball. Giles is the best passing big man on the team already and he's good down on the low block. One thing that he emphasized was that Giles sets great screens, with the emphasis on great. He said young athletic guys normally don't set good screens because they want to slip out but he said Giles is up there with Koufos as far as setting screens goes.

    Can't wait to see him out there.
  18. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    Dwight Howard's game was great 10 years ago when big men were just planted in the paint all game. In today's NBA, you need bigs that are mobile and can help stretch the floor.

    In today's NBA, bigs in Howard's mold are not valued as highly. Players in that mold are considered more defensive role players, and I think Giles can be much more.

    Personally, I have higher hopes for Giles overall game and I hope he can develop into the quintessential NBA 3.0 big man, with a more diversified skill set.
  19. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Great to hear!!

    Playing with Bogdan and Fox he’ll get 10 points off those screens alone and he was a good rebounder in college which translates to the league. It’s also great to hear about the passing cause WCS is a decent passer Giles being better is gravey.
  20. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    So if/when he starts do we think he goes to the G-league first or will be ready for NBA minutes? History with other guys would suggest that he goes down first but if he is consistently doing the little things maybe Coach Joerger keeps him close.
  21. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think Kings will keep him out of games whole season and get as much development and recovery into him as possible.

    If all goes well, I think we will see Giles play in the summer league, pre-season games and take a similar path to Fox as a rookie (i.e. see some minutes in the NBA and not spend much if any time in the G-league).
  22. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    a Dwight Howard can still play a role on a winning team, so long as he isn't the focal point. He can still be there to anchor a defense and rebound the ball. There are still bigs in this league that don't shoot from outside such as Jordan, Drummond, Gobert, Valanciunas, Capela, Adams, Gortat, Nurkic, Vucevic & Whiteside. These players all play a role on their respective teams and they are valuable assets, despite not being deep shooters.

    I know we all want Giles to develop into a stretch 4 that's capable of being an inside and out player but those are sky high expectations right now. We haven't seen him play in two years. It's much easier to assess the trajectory of a player once you watch him play against real competition and even then it won't be a given but it's definitely a fine starting point.
  23. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    We need to relax with the Dwight Howard and stretch for y’all. Howard was a freak athlete and Giles was never a shooter so why expect that to happen. We should focus on what he showed at Duke and before he was a great rebounder, solid passer, and great pick and roll player. If he regains 90% of his athleticism hopefully we get a Center that is a great rebounder, passer, screener, and motor. A 10-8-2 guy is great to pair with WCS whose another great defender and solid passer.

    The Dwight y’all is tomfoolery
    206Fan likes this.
  24. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    a 10-8-2 player is essentially a Ed Davis, Brandon Wright or John Henson type of player. Not bad at pick 20 so long as the injury concerns don't carry down the road. Anything more and that's just extra icing.
  25. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    I hope we see him some this year. I can't claim to have any expertise on recovery, but it does seem that they are going above and beyond in terms of "taking it slow" with Harry. It may very well be the right course for a guy in his situation but I am a little concerned that he may be getting smothered in all the extra caution. I'm probably just impatient though.
  26. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    All of which is fine, but doesn't jibe with the talk that Giles is a star in practice. If Giles is a star in practice that implies that he doesn't need more skills work relative to the other young players on the team (e.g. Skal); therefore, when it comes to that particular point, I don't see the point. As far as the strengthening of the legs, he's had a year of strengthening. If the Kings' trainers have some defined scientific benchmarks for strength that he is not meeting, then I'm all for keeping him out. If not, the law of diminishing returns sets in on his "practice versus play." And I disagree that there is no harm in keeping him out. Like I said before: Keeping him out is not a cost-less option. There is a cost in not playing against top flight competition. There is a trade off between practice and play and any decision on playing or not playing for Harry Giles should take that trade off into account.
  27. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Isn’t the talk that he is the best passing big men, great screen setter, and rebounder. That’s stuff he was projected to be good at before injuries so it’s not like he hasn’t shown that stuff before.

    At Duke he was rushed back 6 weeks after arthroscopic knee surgery which sounds absurd to me. I remember him at draft saying he never really Strengthened his knees just rehab them. So I’d say heya only started strengthening them since June. When we put him out back in September they said it was through January not till January so he’s still on time let’s just be patient.
  28. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Yeah I was about to say lol. We don't want a 4x DPOY and future HoF? Huh?
  29. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Maybe what we want is another softie shooting jump shots rather than playing defense?
  30. Entity

    Entity Well-Known Member

    i remember grant saying in preseason when Mason was doing great. That we should see Harry Giles. that i was very impressive

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