[Grades] Grades v. Suns 11/19/2013

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Bricklayer, Nov 19, 2013.


Best job by the not so supporting cast?

Poll closed Nov 20, 2013.
  1. Thompson

    1 vote(s)
  2. McLemore

    21 vote(s)
  3. Vasquez

    1 vote(s)
  4. Patterson

    1 vote(s)
  5. Thomas

    15 vote(s)
  6. Outlaw

    14 vote(s)
  1. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor


    A thoroughly depressing experience was revived and broke out into a fun finish as Coach Malone went a searchin' down that bench, with initially disastrous first half results. But finally he found what he was looking for, and with Boogie a Boogieing again all over the underpowered Suns' frontline, enough hustle and scrap was scrounged up to wrestle away a win that seemed lost in the first half. Of course it never should have come to that, but hey, we're the Kings, you take 'em however you can get them.

    Your Consoritum Graders tonight:
    Capt. Factorial


    Stats: 27min 4pts (2-4, 0-0, 0-0) 7reb 2ast 2stl 0blk 0TO
    Mbah a Moute ( B- ) -- As usual, Mbah a Moute spent most of the game just staying out of the way on offense. He made two easy shots at the rim (one on a good hustle play by JT to knock a loose ball to him). Outside of that his most important offensive contribution was a drive where he missed, missed a putback, got a second rebound and kicked out to Vasquez for a three. He also had one nice feed to Cuz down low in the first. Oddly enough, he was setting down screens in the lane for the first few possessions of the game and then I'm not sure he ever set another one. But Mbah a Moute is out there for defense, and let me go strongly against conventional wisdom and say that, for this game, Luc's defense really wasn't that strong on the whole. The thing is that he's a great lockdown man-to-man defender. But he's absolutely wasted out there if he doesn't have a good on-ball player to guard. You just don't gain anything by putting him out there to shut down P.J. Tucker. Sure, he completely locked Tucker down the one time Tucker tried to post, but that's one possession. His other two defensive standouts were a play where he picked up a head-of-steamed Goran Dragic one-on-one and not only shut him down but drew the offensive foul to boot, and the final play of the game where he and Outlaw combined to smother the Suns' inbound attempt and force a terrible shot. He also came up with two good defensive help plays in the lane. But really, the rest of the game he didn't stand out defensively because the Suns didn't need to go to P.J. Tucker. In fact, for those of you who were asking who left Goran Dragic alone on that transition play where he got to the basket - yep, it was Luc. He picked up ball, then inexplicably decided to switch over to his own man without checking to see if anybody had stepped in behind him to take the lane (nobody had). Oops. My point is, Outlaw in the fourth was probably the right call for this game situation. But Luc did OK, he was just far from our most important player, even defensively (Cousins, anybody?) in this game.-- Capt.

    Stats: 26min 8pts (4-8, 0-0, 0-0) 6reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
    Thompson ( C+ ) -- got off to the good start in this one despite some difficult defensive matchups. Was helping defensively inside and on the glass -- i.e exactly what you would like a roleplaying big to do -- and made a nice hustle play falling out of bounds and saving the ball back under the basket to Mbah a Moute for the hoop. Did miss the ultimate little gimme jumper in the lane though after Cousins slipped it to him out of a double. Wide open from 8 feet, 6'11" tall. You would think... Anyway, it was still a good first stint, but when he returned after the reserves had blown the big lead, he didn't look nearly as settled or effective, and he never really got back into that same groove. Defensively Marcus Morris looked a step quicker, and offensively JT looked borderline incompetent, although he did drop in a nice little power move with a flip finish in the early third. But he seemed to keep on coming up with loose balls and rebounds, and aside from one ugly little sequence with Channing Frye where Frye went inside on him -- itself an insult -- and then proceeded to miss, grab the miss, go over JT again, miss again, and get the o-reb AGAIN and go over JT again for the score...well actually just reading that maybe JT deserves an F for that play alone. Eventually was chased from the game with Frye and the Morris twins chucking away from deep (well one Morris twin, the other sucked eggs all night) and wasn't there for the finish. But he was ok. Nothing special, but on the list of guys who contributed to this one and guys who didn't, he'd be on the positive side of the ledger. --Brick

    Stats: 35min 27pts (9-18, 0-0, 9-15) 12reb 3ast 4stl 2blk 4TO
    Cousins ( A ) -- It was apparent right from the tip that the Suns couldn't handle Cousins inside. The Suns have some toughness on the perimeter, especially when Bledsoes out there, but Plumlee and Fry make up one of the softest front court in the league. Because of this the Suns smartly doubled Cousins all night down low. He started off playing patiently against the double team, not forcing anything just moving the ball and finding the open man. And to start things off his shooter were actually taking advantage of the open looks. As the first quarter wore on Cousins began to assert himself more down low, picking up a slew of fouls and a couple trips to the line, where he uncharacteristically went 1/4. It should be noted that despite the big numbers Cousins outside shot was off. He didn't look comfortable from the line and missed on all six of his outside shots. Came back in fairly early into the second with the lead the starters built completely wasted. Immediately sparked an offense that hadn't manage a single point in the second, but couldn't do much against an endless stream of guards waltzing into the paint as our "perimeter defenders" look completely out matched. Cousins actually played alright during this horrendous stretch that had me breaking down as I muttered indiscernible things about the whereabouts of Tony Douglas and something about preferring Scott Skiles style mediocrity over this nonsense. Took a hard hit to the shoulder near the end of the quarter which looked serious enough to sideline him, but he managed to tough it out. Came out for the second half with a brace on the injured shoulder but after a few awkward possessions decided to head into the locker room to get it removed. When he reentered a few minutes later the game was on the verge of getting completely away from us. I'm not sure whether it was the injury or his teammates inability to find him but Cousins wasn't much of a factor on the offensive side during this stretch. Was still doing work on the boards and once we subbed out some of our more embarrassing defenders helped right the ship with a solid defensive stretch to close out the quarter. Came back in mid fourth and just carried us on both side down the stretch. Spark the crowd with a huge block on Tucker which lead to a fast break score in what was the first of a string of huge defensive plays. Showing off those great hands once again snagging a steal off Dragic and then went down on the other end and manhandled the defense for a three point play. Followed that up with another block on a Fry jumper and then with under 30 seconds left he grabbed his fourth steal of the night... and then decided to play a little point guard with less then stellar results. We can discard all the qualifiers at this point, Cousins is a star on the offensive side. If he can tap some of the defensive potential we witnessed tonight consistently then things get really scary.-- Henkel

    Stats: 34min 19pts (5-13, 4-10, 5-5) 5reb 0ast 0stl 1blk 1TO
    McLemore ( B- ) -- This was a tough score. He did score 19 points, but he was 5 of 13 from the floor. On the other hand, he was 4 of 10 from the three, which is 40%. Nothing to sneeze at. And lets not forget the drive down the middle for a dunk. For entertainment value alone, it improves his grade. Gee, I wonder how many dribbles he took to get to the basket. I hear he's only capable of two. He hustled all night long, and at times, played pretty good defense. Especially in the second half and down the stretch when it mattered most. He also pulled down 5 boards, which is good for a SG. I might add, that he made a few nice passes, which unfortunately didn't end up as assists, but its the thought that counts. Right? Seriously, he played a good game. His shot was off a little, and in the first half, he lost track of Green a few times, and those times ended up being completed three's. He did have one spectacular block, when he missed a shot on the offensive end, recovered, and then ran the floor to block a shot at the other end. Not many could do that. Bit by bit, you can see improvement, and him getting used to the pace of the NBA. This was probably his second best game of the year. Hopefully, there are more to come. -- Baja

    Stats: 24min 11pts (5-9, 1-2, 0-0) 1reb 6ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
    Vasquez ( C ) -- Vasquez had a ‘tale of two halves’ thing going on tonight. He was playing very effective offensive basketball to start the game (as was the whole starting unit). He was setting guys up, he was able to beat Dragic off the dribble for a few of his runnerish layups, and the offense as a whole looked good. He was once again a liability defensively however, and it didn’t take long for Dragic to draw two fouls on him forcing Isaiah Thomas to enter the game earlier than normal. It was mostly down hill from there. He made a few really terrible decisions, included more than one soft pass that turned into transition opportunities for Phoenix, and a surprising inbound violation. His one positive contribution in the second half was the amount of times he fed Cousins the ball. He must have passed the ball exclusively to Cousins 5 or 6 possessions in a row when we were just trying to stay in the game. That shouldn’t go unnoticed. Vasquez’ numbers look a little bit better than how I thought he played, particularly when you realize he only saw 24 minutes of action. I think a C is fair, but man – If he can’t stay in front of Goran Dragic I don’t know who he can stay in front of. -- Mass
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor


    Stats: 24min 19pts (6-12, 1-5, 6-6) 0reb 3ast 2stl 0blk 3TO
    Thomas ( B ) -- Isaiah Thomas wasn’t great tonight, but he was once again the primary ball handler in the lineup that got the Kings back in this game. His first half was very forgettable aside from a nice jump pass to Patterson for an open baseline jumper, and a couple strong takes the rim. His defense in the first half was hit or miss, but I thought he did a better job on Dragic when he was on him. A few sloppy possessions, including multiple bad passes led to his exit early in the 3rd. The second half was much better, but it still wasn’t perfect. At least 3 of his 3-point attempts by my count were just terrible shots. He was forcing jumpers as he’s known to do, but his ability to draw fouls and get to the free throw line was much needed. He also defended Dragic better in the 4th quarter than anyone had all game. He went 6-6 from the free throw line, including a pair that finally gave us the lead in the 4th. It was a pretty typical Isaiah Thomas game, only this time the team had enough energy to bring us back from a double-digit deficit and win the game. --Mass

    Stats: 6min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
    Salmons ( F ) -- Normally six minutes is not enough playing time to warrant a grade, but John-Boy did his best to force me to do a write-up. He came in at the four minute mark of the first quarter and immediately got peeled off of Marcus Morris to allow an easy open jumper. He followed that up by throwing the ball into the backcourt for no particular reason at all, fouling Marcus Morris on a sweep-through move for free throws, and then to cap it all off, turning the ball over on an inbounds play resulting in a Kings time out. Somehow, some way, Coach Malone did not yank Salmons at that point, but left him out there for not only the remainder of the first but also the first two and a half minutes of the second (where John did absolutely nothing). Then, mercifully, Salmons was benched for good.--Capt.

    Stats: 25min 10pts (4-8, 1-2, 1-2) 5reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Patterson ( B- ) -- an efficient outing from PPat, and yet one that felt a bit empty at times. There are two notes to that explanation: first PPat had several impressive plays during the game, but beyond the flash not much was going on. Secondly he is a bit of a victim of us getting it right -- a lot of the numbers he did get were easy looks set up by Isaiah and Cuz. So 10pts 5rebs has a bit of an "of course" feel to it rather than one of major accomplishment. His original stint in fact was devoid of much of anything but hitting 2 gimmes set up on a platter for him by IT. Meanwhile Marcus Morris was going nuts, and the bench was blowing the entire lead in pathetic fashion. After half, after a short stint alongside JT when Cousins had to leave in the early 3rd to get his shoulder brace removed, PPat came back and became part of the more mobile and athletic rotations we eventually won the game with. Along the way he came up with really strong athletic offensive rebound and got fouled to cap a great hustle sequence where we got 3 offensive rbeounds. He also hit a corner three from Ndiaye in the early 4th as we had stralled out offensively (as in no points in the first 3 min of the quarter) and Malone had prematurely had Cuz get up to go to the scorer's table to save us. PPat's three bought us a few more minutes. Added a nice quick pass into Cousins inside off the teamwide ball movement, but missed on several return passes the other way as Cuz tried to beat doubles with passing. this grade may be a smidge high. I really wasn't dazzled. But I don't expect much out of PPat, or really hardly any of our scru...er...I mean roleplayers at this point. The 10pts matched his season high, we won, he was on the court at the end. And a smidge better than JT, but smidge behind Outlaw feels about right. --Brick

    Stats: 14min 3pts (1-5, 1-2, 0-0) 1reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Fredette ( C- ) -- Well surprise, surprise. We had a Jimmer sighting. Thornton never touched the floor tonight. Not sure at this point whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. But we won, and that's a good thing, unless your rooting for a high lottery pick, then that's probably a bad thing. Well, I'm confused. Strangely, Jimmer, despite going 1 for 5 overall, didn't play that badly. He didn't play great either. But he tried, and maybe that was the problem. I can see where a player that's been bench ridden, will want to come out and blow the socks off his coach. Its called trying too hard. He only played 14 minutes, but had 3 assists, and they actually looked like assists. By that I mean he didn't stumble into them, he created them. Now I'm not going to go all La La over them, but I do think its worth noting. He only made one shot, a three, but it came at a crucial time in the game, so he gets a couple of extra points for that. Hey, if were going to downgrade players stats for garbage time, then we have to take note of good made shots when they matter. So while he didn't wow anyone, he did contribute, and that's all you can ask of a player. --Baja

    Stats: 3min 2pts (1-1, 0-0, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Hayes ( INC ) -- Almost invisible out there besides a wide open layup courtesy of Jimmer. Could be the beginning of the end for Chuck as he's getting out played by a no named undrafted rook who looks far more hungry for minutes. With Landry coming back could be part of the leagues most expensive bench warmers along side Thornton and Salmons. --Henkel

    Stats: 18min 4pts (2-5, 0-1, 0-0) 9reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 3TO
    Outlaw ( B ) -- Outlaw did his best John Salmons impression in the first half, lining up at the PF to start the second quarter, and despite two rebounds he had three turnovers in three total minutes and got yanked for the rest of the half. It was looking like a certain F for Outlaw, but he came in for the final 15 minutes of the game and was a good part of our comeback. He became a rebound machine, grabbing 8 boards in the final stretch and hit a big turnaround at the free throw line in the final minute to tie up the game. He also played pretty good defense, notably coming over to help and stopping a Gerald Green drive at the rim, and being a part of the Morris-smothering on the final Suns possession with a serious hand in the face of that ugly no-chance three that sealed our victory. The effort was there for the entire 15 minutes of the second half, and while I saw some questions on the game thread about why Outlaw was in instead of Mbah a Moute, I thought it was the clear right decision. Considering we were behind we needed offense, and even though for the most part it wasn't provided by Outlaw, he helped spread the floor and his defense was pretty much as good as Mbah a Moute's (if not better) on the night.--Capt.

    Stats: 5min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 1reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Ndiaye ( INC ) -- Took Hayes second half minutes and didn't make a mess of it. Did a better job of staying down and just being big rather then biting on every ball fake. Not much here in limited minutes but it looks possible that he could buy you 10-15 minutes at center a night, well on this team at least. I'm rooting for the kid, or maybe I'm just rooting against small ball. --Henkel
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  3. PurpleHaze

    PurpleHaze Well-Known Member

    Thank goodness it's Travis Outlaw. That's all I have to say. Good night.
    VF21 likes this.
  4. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I voted for Ben, but I certainly think Outlaw should have been on the list.
  5. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    A lot of good role player performances tonight. Mbah and JT were solid. Outlaw and Patterson made huge plays in the 4th especially. IT and Ben carried the 2nd fiddle scoring load.
    VF21 likes this.
  6. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Why do I feel so good? A win is sweet. Missed part of this but saw the good first, the second long enough to see the give-a-way program, then came back to see us come back from a 88-80 deficit. Cousins toughed it out and gave 100% in the last. That closing bunch really did it.
    VF21 likes this.
  7. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    You'll see when the grades go up that I was pretty happy with Outlaw's game tonight, and I completely believe he should have been in down the stretch instead of Mbah a Moute, given the circumstances. I wasn't grading Ben tonight, but I was, shall we say, very disappointed in his defense - so much so that I felt it overshadowed his 19 points.
    VF21 likes this.
  8. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    By popular demand.
  9. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I hereby retract my vote for Ben and change it to a vote for Outlaw.
  10. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones17m
    Malone said Marcus Thornton had 9 games to play and he wanted to give Jimmer a look. No, Thornton has not been traded and he's not injured.

    Just when I was getting excited :( Honestly though I wouldn't mind if Malone just "gave Jimmer a look"for the rest of the season.
    TruckeeKingsFan likes this.
  11. HereWeBoogie

    HereWeBoogie Well-Known Member

    DeMarcus is just a monster. i hope they feed him tomorrow. he can easily score 40 on this suns frontline. and if Bledsoe is playing tomorrow, we need a huge performance from Cousins to even have a chance
  12. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I applaud Mike Malone even more than before. There is rhyme and reason in his madness. ;)
    TruckeeKingsFan likes this.
  13. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Do not be surprised if DMC ends up not playing tomorrow. If he did, in fact, dislocate his shoulder - even if it slid back into place by itself - they may want to keep an eye on it.
  14. HereWeBoogie

    HereWeBoogie Well-Known Member

    solid point.
    also saw on twitter that his shoulder came out again when he went to the locker room and removed the tape from under the sleeve
  15. HereWeBoogie

    HereWeBoogie Well-Known Member

  16. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    VF21 likes this.
  17. cuad

    cuad Well-Known Member

    I like how you excluded Jimmer from the poll.
  18. Sluggah

    Sluggah Well-Known Member

    Salmons 6.12 minutes of play may have been the least inspired basketball I have ever witnessed. He should get an A for finally playing himself out of the rotation.

    Also, everyone that was on the court with Cousins should be docked a full grade for the 5 times Cousins was double teamed, clearly in trouble, and they all just stood there watching.
    NorCal Kat, Henkel and VF21 like this.
  19. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    So in 9 games, Thornton has gone from starting, to coming off the bench, to getting DNP's because our coach wants to "get a look" at our 12th man?

    If that's not a "Wake the heck up and starting playing basketball" call, I don't know what is.
    Kingstime likes this.
  20. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    For two quaters we looked awful the other team we looked like we had been a solid team for a long period of time

    #I really thought Thomas and Cousins defense in the 4th changed the whole game, Thomas used his speed to cut of the snakes head in Dragic who started to be flustered and 2nd guess himself after looking like Sonic the hedgehog against Vasquez and Cousins used those crazy instincts to get plenty of boards/steals/blocks and be disruptive.
    # A+ For coach Malone for benching Thornton and eventually replacing Salmons and Hayes for good
    #Cousins outside a few things (won't bring it up since everyone will get upset) was really good his slashing ability and the fact he really battled on the glass was great to see
    #Seems like all our PF's want to be reserves and hate starting, Patterson was good my godness when he wants to he can grab rebounds and jump out of the jump his two foot vertical must be really nice and his shot was back
    #Not impressed by Vasquez at all I'm not sure he is even a starting PG in the NBA
    #M16 looked super nervous than found a groove he did chuck a little but when your shot is as pure as his I don't mind if he throws the odd bad shot up
    #I like having Jimmer play as the back up SG even though he's super limited the positive energy/shooting and hustle are all there which is three more attributes than Thornton brings
    #Cousins with 4 shooters on the floor in Patterson/Outlaw/Jimmer or Mac with IT looked really top notch on both ends.
    #Outlaw has to be in line for major mins at SF with LMAM that clutch shot he made I doubt anyone else on the team could have.

    I really hope Cousins can play through the injury or that it gets better/does not need surgery it's basically the only thing that makes the team watchable regardless if I agree with some of the shots he takes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2013
  21. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Jimmer gave me pretty much what I would expect out of anyone who hasn't been getting minutes. Hustled, was decent defensively though greatly undersized against his particular matchup, forced maybe 2 shots that you would expect from a scorer who's been benched. He looked a little tentative and I felt passed up some open 3s to drive in and force up tougher shots. Did a good job with the 3 assists setting Chuck Hayes and IT up for WIDE open shots. I would like him to be given more time and maybe Malone's backing that he won't just yank him if he misses a few shots - that could free him up to be more confident in his shot when he's got a little bit of space. And really that's what we need him to do if we put him out with a lineup without a post presence. McLemore took 10 3s, some of which were pretty forced, but because he knows he's not going to get yanked he could keep shooting and some of those shots paid off for us.
    Kingstime likes this.
  22. HereWeBoogie

    HereWeBoogie Well-Known Member

  23. Fear the Putin

    Fear the Putin Well-Known Member

    That's vomit worthy. Dislocated shoulders can become a major problem because once it happens, its easier for it to happen again ala chuck Hayes.
  24. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I think Jimmer fans are going to get their wish at least, he probably has supplanted Thornton
    TruckeeKingsFan and cuad like this.
  25. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    Does anyone know if it's the same shoulder Jason Maxiell hurt last year early into the season and Cousins in that game same thing happend he left the game got the wrapping than took the wrapping off and played the next few games with pain than it pretty much was not noticable after a while?
  26. Hadlowe

    Hadlowe Well-Known Member

    At this point, Kings fans and Jimmer fans probably share an interest.
  27. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    Does he have the time frame there right? Because if his shoulder popped out when he got that wrap removed, I find it doubtful he'd be back on the court inside 5 minutes. Maybe the "shoulder slipped out" is a reference to the initial on court injury, and the english just got mangled by twitterism?

    In any case, obviously if Boogie develops a problem with a separated shoulder, there will be plenty of chances this year for it to pop back out. And once he's gone, we are deader than a doornail and the year will largely go to waste. There will be no centerpiece to the system we are trying to institute, and you'll be spending time trying to change the culture of a bunch of guys who won't be here in 2 years to see it come to frutition anyway. I suppose at least with this group if we lose Boogie I will have no compunction at all wishing them all to fail so spectacularly that we have our choice of Wiggins/Parker/Randle or whoever else we want come June.

    Basically, somebody better duct tape that shoulder to Cuz's body before tomorrow's game.
    VF21 likes this.
  28. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    A ridiculously small sample size look at McLemore as a starter:

    28 MPG
    10.3 PPG
    5.3 RPG
    1.3 APG
    1.o TO/game

    36% FG (9-25) and 35% 3pt (6-17)
    2.3 FTA/game (100% FT)
  29. Siranthony

    Siranthony Well-Known Member

    This game was really making me mad! We where up by over 10 points. I really thought we where the much better team. For once we look bigger and better than the other team.

    Then came the turn overs and a 20 point swing. But this is what the Suns do. They are scrappy and you have to be prepared for it. We basically dropped our guard and got lazy during that stretch.

    It looked like another terrible loss. I had to go to bed so I fast forwarded (started game late) to the 4th quarter. I missed what McLemore did in the game because I never saw him do anything of note.

    It was nice to see us get the win. Cousins is tough. I really appreciate that as a fan.

    J.T. impressed me. He is a fighter these days. Outlaw also is much better than in previous years here.

    I think we should roll with Jimmer for a few games. He looks lost at times. I think he could find his way with time and coaching. Get him open looks.
    TruckeeKingsFan likes this.
  30. Kingstime

    Kingstime Active Member

    If Malone can somehow turn Jimmer into a consistent roation worthy NBA guard it would be a great miracle. I love his range and scrap, I feel for him out there because he is trying. But he loses me when he goes for akward drive attempts, hes not quick enough or athletic enough to play his college style. He needs to study a guy like Luke Ridiours game and he will stay inthe league 10 years off his shooting alone.

    I like Malone trying everything to get a pulse out of Thornton hes the one that can put us middle of the pack in the West if he could just play consistently
    TruckeeKingsFan and VF21 like this.

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