[Grades] Grades v. Knicks 12/9/2016

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Bricklayer, Dec 9, 2016.


la question

Poll closed Dec 10, 2016.
  1. sigh

    8 vote(s)
  2. shucks

    1 vote(s)
  3. %!$@

    17 vote(s)
  1. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor



    Think coach made a mistake to help sink us too by unnecessarily getting cute with the Hack-a-Noah with 2:10 left after we had just taken the lead. We had momentum, were playing decent defense, every chance we get energized and stop the Knicks. Instead coach gets cute, Noah hits both, and we lose the tempii for the rest of the game. Let 'em play it out coach.


    Link to Boxscore

    35min 13pts (4-15 0-5 5-6) 5reb 1ast 1stl 0blk 0To
    Gay ( F ) -- horrid on both ends as Melo lit him up, and his offense was forced, rhythmless, and random. Missed shot after shot down the stretch to help seal the loss.

    36min 28pts (9-25 0-6 10-12) 12reb 6ast 3stl 1blk 3To
    Cousins ( C+ ) -- if not for Rudy's horrible night you could say this loss was on Cuz, who offensively at least just did not have it all night, looked frustrated and too into it with the refs (although that eventually paid off when he got them to call a T on Melo). Didn't want to shoot the three, but teammates kept forcing it back to him. Blew a needed layup in the final seconds. On the other hand, really got into Porzingis on D again, and was the only guy to suck it up and start snatching boards. Tying heave at the buzzer rimmed out.

    14min 4pts (2-2 0-0 0-0) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1To
    Koufos ( D ) -- might be a kind D. Whole team felt off, but Kosta was so far off he was basically deemed unplayable. Reaction speed was shot. unable to react on boards, unable to catch passes. Unplayable.

    Featured Grade 22min 10pts (4-7 2-2 0-0) 4reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
    McLemore ( B- ) -- Ben had a very nice first stint tonight. He was cutting, he was grabbing seemingly every rebound on the floor, he was setting screens to get Cousins open, and he held Lee (and anybody else he happened to get switched off onto) to zero points. But once Temple came in and doubled down on Ben's effort, he was a lot less animated at the end of the second quarter and to open the third. He did get the steal and breakaway when Jennings inexplicably threw the ball to him, but he also missed two layups (both of which he did a good job to create) and his D was less on point. Once he was rested in the third (quite a bit earlier than after his first stint) he didn't make it back to the floor. He actually played pretty well, but Temple showed him up tonight. --Capt.

    30min 14pts (5-11 1-2 3-3) 3reb 3ast 2stl 0blk 0To
    Collison ( C ) -- started off the game angling for a fugly grade as he let Jennings go wherever he wanted, but got that settled, and DC then settled in as just totally ineffective for the bulk of the game. Finally woke up, and saved this grade, as he realized our Big 2 wasn't so big tonight and needed him to get out and score down the stretch.



    27min 10pts (4-9 2-6 0-0) 5reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Tolliver ( C ) -- the vet saavy was on display in most productive stint of the season, but so was the lack of talent. Smart player, knew his three point shot was off...unfortunately its all he has. When he kept on passing up threes and trying other things it never worked, and guys like Rudy and Cuz who were off all night were forced to take yet another three. Part of the rebounding problem too, as he's never been good, and he and Willie....

    20min 12pts (4-5 1-1 3-3) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Casspi ( B ) -- one of the very few Kings who could hit a shot, and then at a critical late game point refused to do so, passing the ball back to an ice cold Boogie for another brick instead. Doesn't always have touch on his finishes, but tonight he hit several tough ones after contested drives.

    12min 0pts (0-2 0-0 0-0) 1reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Cauley-Stein ( D ) -- a gentleman's D as the flutterbug returned tip toeing around out there as the big scary men bumped him out of the way.

    18min 4pts (1-5 0-2 2-3) 3reb 6ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
    Lawson ( C ) -- for a while looked like a better option than the invisible Collison, but his lack of offense began to hurt as the Knicks had us well scouted and sloughed off him, and he wasn't generating much for the offense beyond long bricked threes from the talentless bench

    26min 5pts (2-6 1-4 0-0) 0reb 1ast 3stl 0blk 0TO
    Temple ( B ) -- a rare bright point with more defense and some spectacular hustle steals, but the lack of offense hurt as we were struggling on that end and Garret is not built to provide much relief when that happens.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  2. parker

    parker Well-Known Member

    Captain Obvious says the Kings have got to get better finishing quarters and games.

    Sargent You'retellingme says rebound the damn ball.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  3. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    Every time I get my hopes up that this team has turned a corner, this happens! :(
  4. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Well-Known Member

    We need to start scoring more points than our opponents.
  5. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    This loss has flipped the switch for me.

    I'll be semi-optimistic the next time they win 2 of 3, but until then these guys are the same old team they've always been. There's no corner to be turned, they're a 36 win team.

    All I wanted was drama free .500 basketball, and that's slipping farther and farther away.
  6. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I don't know about you, but I'd be happy just to get some 3pters in...
    Kings were down 3pts with 12s left, and we went for a quick 2 instead of a game tying 3pt shot lmao. Almost ended horribly after Cuz dribbled the ball off his own foot.

    I think this team is incapable of running successful offensive sets in crunch time.
    KingMilz likes this.
  7. parker

    parker Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, they don't have anyone who they can rely on down the stretch. Cousins doesn't get calls at the end of games and forces shots, Rudy forces shots, and the rest of the guys stand and watch.
    pshn80 likes this.
  8. swisshh

    swisshh Well-Known Member

    CyKings likes this.
  9. kingdivac

    kingdivac Well-Known Member

    This isn't some revelation....the team is worse than with Rondo. They went low-ball on free agency, and not one draft pick playing to show for last year is the true failure. They need a John Wall type or Barron Davis in his prime etc.... you fill-in-the-blank player in the back court and they don't have it. Team will win .333 percentage or so with Gay and Cousins as the offensive focal point. 32 wins this year and the spin cycle continues - or - tank it now and maybe get a top 3 pick with a better chance for an impact rookie. Or blow it up <dynamite - ka-boom> Make sure to take in multi year 1st rounders for Cousin - at least 2, preferably 3 sequential drafts for the trade - gotta try something. They're a proven losing core and Vlade brings back the same team. Way to lose to the Knicks at home. Not worth my viewing time really....just a box-score check and a quick rant....the 49ers do fans a favor and are tanking the living hell now -> but their season ticket holders want their 40k back for 4 seats. Vlade is on the hot-seat maybe now and certainly by next year, memories and all.
  10. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    cockeyed optimist
    LoungeLizard likes this.
  11. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    Kyle O'Quinn is such a beast should have signed him two off-seasons ago

    Honestly Dave really has to stop with the Kosta Koufus crap and Ben/AA if any other coach who was anti-Cousins was doing what he's doing he would be crucified on the forum. Play Casspi or Tolliver strictly at PF or trade for one. George Karl saw Koufus next to Cousins sucked.......

    Temple should be playing more minutes than everyone not named Gay/Cousins strictly cause of his lockdown defense and energy he is being grossly underused.
    hrdboild likes this.
  12. Alon Rosen

    Alon Rosen New Member

    Casspi had last year 12ppg/48%FG/41% 3PT/+/- = +8 as a rotation player(+8 as a rotation player in a losing team if to be honest it's outstanding)

    He is slashing good, great 3pt shooter and his defense is better than ever...
    and his "turnovers superstition" it's only a superststition as he lost only about 1.3/27MPG, which is reasonable.

    What do i come to say? That we are searching for a coin under the Lantern. searching what's obvious.

    lets trade the one which worthwhile in the "trading world" but less in real terms, for one that would assist us(and boogie) more.
    And upgrade those which can provide the same(or more) based on last year numbers happen they will get the same backup from coach and supporters.

    We can not be efficient without an efficiency...
    we have to look above and beyond the myth world and to think outside the box...
    not every "star" is a real star(Boogie is)... and not every underpaid player he is not a player
    that can get us 20PPG/48%fg/41%3pt/positive +\- happen he will get the same backup the one which is consider as a star, but is not at all, gets.

    And think about it...
  13. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    Get me somebody that can shoot the ball consistently. Anybody. Because nobody on this current roster can.

    And stop giving Rudy Gay the ball at the end of games. He always takes awful shots. Tonight it was a contested 3 with 8 seconds still on the clock. He did the same thing in 2 different game winning situations earlier this season. He's not a closer. Never has been, never will be.

    How about we actually try running a play with actual movement rather than a damn ISO? Is that really too much to ask?? Use Cuz/Gay as decoys to get somebody else a wide open shot on a kick out.
    SacTownGrantFan likes this.
  14. Kings Faithful

    Kings Faithful Well-Known Member

    I'm so done with Rudy Gay. He would've missed that short, wide open 2 to take the lead at the end of the game 9 out of 10 times. You just can't have that.
    gunks and Kingsfan23 like this.
  15. KingsFanSince85

    KingsFanSince85 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that miss really hurt -- as did Cuz's botched layup when he should have used his left hand. Can't miss shots like those at the end of games and they missed both. Would have been real nice if Boogie would have made that hail mary at the end to bail us out though.
  16. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Darren Collison has been quietly very unimpactful for someone supposed to be our 3rd best player.
  17. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Well-Known Member

  18. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Sooner rather than later these close losses to teams over .500 will fall
    VF21, pshn80 and SacTownGrantFan like this.
  19. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    We need a better starting PG.....much better.
  20. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I agree, and think the same applies to SG and PF. But even more the Kings need to pass the ball more. I am seeing way to much ISO ball with Players going right at the teeth of the defense. Still the games have been competitive and I did not expect a complete turnaround in one season. The Kings are playing much better defense than last season according to my eye test. So barring injury I anticipate the Kings will approach .500 Ball as the season progresses.
    parker and pshn80 like this.
  21. IfAt1st

    IfAt1st Well-Known Member

    Joerger's ISO "offense" is NOT going to work in today's NBA.
    He is to blame for not putting the team in position to succeed.

    But the biggest cause of the past FOUR losses has been Rudy Gay.
    What are his stats in the 4th quarter and OT of each game?
    He has missed shot after critical, open shot and the Kings simply aren't good enough to win with him wasting such opportunities.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  22. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Boogie was a B last night. 28 points on 25 shots is not good efficiency, but his defense and floor game was superior with 6 assists against 3 TOs and only 2 fouls. In seasons past, before he elevated his games to legitimate superstar status, poor shooting nights like this one were compounded with frustration fouls and throwing the ball all over and running over defenders for charges. A 2:1 assist ratio and not sending opponent to free throw line with cheap fouls helped to keep us in the game and gave us chance to win. This is a subtle difference but if you prematurely anoint superstar status without merit this subtlely may escape your grasp. His improvement in this area is substantial and deserves to be emphasized. Here are his assist to turnover numbers every year in the league:

    0.76 (2010-11)
    1.30 (2016-17)

    The disappointment is before the season started I projected Boogie to have his best season ever. He's doing that. But the assumption was also if he hit certain benchmarks, 55% TS and over 1.0 assist to turnover, he would get help with improved coaching and defensive minded role players to lead to respectability and playoff push. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. If there is silver lining it is Affalo has been benched, Barnes may have played his last game as a King, and December 15 is five days away.
  23. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    Lonzo Ball baby. Tank for Lonzo.
    CelticsFan likes this.
  24. LA King Fan II

    LA King Fan II Active Member

    No tanking necessary. This roster built to achieve lottery success.
  25. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I think if we had a big upgrade at PG we would be ok at the other positions. Besides the draft, best option may be Boogie convincing his Kentucky buddies to come over......or the trade of Gay to OKC for Payne who develops into a guy. We just don't get enough good games from DC.
    King Baller likes this.
  26. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    I'm going to continue to harp on it... Temple and Tolliver should be in the starting lineup.

    Both are great teammates, unselfish, savvy veterans, hard workers, and low usage players. They both play hard on defense and make very few mistakes & turnovers on offense. Not to mention both can hit a 3pt shot which would give the rest of the lineup space.

    It just makes too much sense to put these two out there with Collison/Gay/Cousins.
    1. Perimeter defense would improve.
    2. Spacing would improve
    3. Cousins isn't a liability guarding PFs
    4. Mistakes would be decreased
    5. Energy would be good from the get go
    6. Bench would have more scoring options (Lawson/Afflalo/McLemore/Casspi)
    Collison (32 min) / Lawson (16 min)
    Temple (22 min) / Afflalo (26 min)
    Gay (34 min) / Temple (8 min) / Casspi (6 min)
    Tolliver (26 min) / Casspi (22 min)
    Cousins (36 min) / Koufos (12 min)

    Cousins - 36 min
    Gay - 34 min
    Collison - 32 min
    Temple - 30 min
    Casspi - 28 min
    Afflalo - 26 min
    Tolliver - 26 min
    Lawson - 16 min
    Koufos - 12 min
  27. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    His stats this season are nice, but I've never ever seen him actually help us get a W. Like, a hard faught, put some effort into it, win. Those are always thanks to Cuz and roleplayers.

    He beasts on scrubs and gets 20 plus on our rare blowouts and easy wins, but when there is actual competition, he wilts like a dainty little flower in a drought (speaking of drought, what's his % for clutch shots this season? 0?)

    I really hope Vlade can get something, anything, for that charmin quilted soft malcontent. Preferably a PF.

    Addition by subtraction. The Rudy Gay effect is legit.
    KingMilz and SacTownGrantFan like this.
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Here's the problem as I see it. And I'm beating an old horse. We have pieces that don't fit what the coach is trying to do. Which means, there's not really a lot that Joerger can do to correct the situation in the present. We're going to either win or lose with the pieces we have. Joerger wants a team with ball and player movement, and up till recently, we had three players in the starting lineup that were basically iso players (Cousins, Gay, and Afflalo). That doesn't lend itself to ball movement. It lends itself to stop and watch them take turns at trying to score. It also makes us easier to defend.

    Now in fairness to Cousins, he's capable of playing either way. Put four other players around him that pass the ball and move without the ball, and he fits in. He's very similar to Webber skill wise. But put him on the floor with the current group, he tends to go iso more than we would like.

    The other problem we have is that we don't really have a consistent third option. On nights where Gay isn't hitting his shots, we have to depend totally on Cousins to carry the load, and vice versa. Fortunately for us, Cousins hasn't had many bad nights or our loss column would look a lot worse. If you go back and look at the games where Gay was horrible, we lost most of those games. On the nights were Cousins and Gay both had good nights, we won more than we lost. Point being, the success of this team depends on both Cousins and Gay being good on a nightly basis and that's not likely to happen consistently. We need a third consistent scorer.

    Now we can say that we've been close in many of the games, and with just a bit of a nudge, those could have been wins, and therefore we should be optimistic. But I went back and looked at our win/loss record in past years and it's fairly consistent. There are around 11 or 12 games every year that the Kings lost by less than 5 points. Point being, that good teams win those games and bad teams don't. So right now, in my humble opinion, based on current results, were a bad team. We're a flawed team, and until those flaws are corrected, we'll continue to be a bad team.

    I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, just a realist. I can't let my personal love for the Kings, or any of the individual players blur my vision. Actually I have a cataract in one eye, so my vision is a bit blurred. But not so blurred, that despite the fact that I'm a big WCS fan, I can't see he sucks right now. I don't have any answers to this right now. After Dec 15th I can suggest some. Get Gay out of town as soon as possible. He's not in the future of the team, so whats the point of having him here? Get what you can for him while you can.

    I want Vlade to start making moves that show he has some sort of plan for the future. Start weeding out the dead weight. I'm not on the win now bandwagon. I'm on the build a championship team bandwagon, and that takes more time. Yeah I'd love to make the playoff's, but only if we can actually scare someone. If we can look like a team that people will look at and say, man, in a couple of more years this team could win the whole thing. What I don't want is fools gold. I don't want to sneak into the eighth spot and then lose four straight to the Warriors with Cousins and a bunch of old players that won't be here in a couple of years. Who the hell cares?

    If you want a team that looks like the Spurs, or the Warriors, or even the Cav's, then some major changes need to be made. I looked at the roster yesterday tried to pick out players I would want off the roster that I would want to start a team with. Obviously Cousins leaped out at me. I'd keep Koufos as a nice backup center. I'd keep Collison as a nice backup PG. I'd keep Temple as a great defensive player off the bench. I'd keep Casspi as a nice backup at SF. I'd keep the rookies to see how they panned out, and everybody else would be gone. In other words, Gay aside, we have a team of backup players and Cousins. Just my opinion folks!
  29. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I might take a break (but I'm usually too obsessive a fan to follow through).. but the team is stuck in a malaise. I have various problems with the teams three best players. No momentum, energy. I have no investment if they win or lose (protected pick, possible need for shakeup). Just not a supportable product
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  30. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    I totally get this point of view based on won-lost record, but at the same time I have found that most games have in fact been competitive and watchable so I'm sort of like the other side of this coin.

    This season for some reason I've given up all armchair GM'ing and am just going to basketball games to root for my team and get a plate of street tacos. I'll keep doing it - I'm just figuring that either the team will come around (to a playoff team) or it won't. I'm not trippin

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