[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 12/10/2016

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Bricklayer, Dec 10, 2016.


Does DMC need a night off after going 45-120 over the last 5 games?

Poll closed Dec 12, 2016.
  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
  3. Yes, but we can't afford to do it

    4 vote(s)
  4. Yes, but its the Lakers...so, no

    7 vote(s)
  5. I don't care anymore

    17 vote(s)
  1. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor



    Link to Boxscore

    33min 20pts (7-15 3-4 3-4) 5reb 2ast 2stl 0blk 1To
    Gay ( C ) -- not as good as his numbers. Tried to challenge Gobert early. That went well. yet was somehow doing most of early scoring while looking bad doing it. Then disappeared + was forgotten about after half when we tried to get DC going instead.

    34min 16pts (7-22 1-6 1-3) 10reb 4ast 1stl 1blk 3To
    Cousins ( F ) -- looked exhausted from the getgo, and this was bad ole tired Cousins of years ago. Slow on everything, didn't want to bang inside. Would make a defensive rotation, and then not rotate back because he had no legs. Mostly just settled for jumpers. Tried to suck it up in the late 3rd and go challenge Gobert, and got stuffed in epic fashion. We can't win without him, and we didn't have him.

    13min 4pts (2-4 0-0 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 1blk 0To
    Koufos ( C- ) -- seems to be losing purchase on his token minutes, and isn't showing up on the glass or doing a good job bodying big centers at the moment. Got bumped up from a D just for taking over for Cuz and blocking a shot on a Jazz drive that Cuz;s tired legs would not have gotten to.

    26min 1pts (0-5 0-3 1-4) 2reb 1ast 1stl 0blk 0To
    McLemore ( D ) -- you might wonder how a guy can avoid an F with that statline, but, well, first it was Ben. This happens sometimes. And secondly, thought he gave us some good man D on Hayward in spots. It wasn't much, but enough -- the question I always ask is if this wasn't an F, what would a guy have to do to get one?

    Featured Grade 32min 17pts (7-14 3-5 0-0) 1reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 2TO
    Collison ( C+ ) -- Truly the tale of one quarter, the third. Collison scored the bulk of his 17 pt's in the third quarter, and basically saved himself an F. Unfortunately, Mack magically became the invisible man in the third quarter, because Collison seemed incapable of seeing Mack every time Mack drove past him on his way to the basket. DC started the game with a bad pass for a turnover. Drove in for a nice floater, and then missed a fifteen foot jumper. He then disappeared for the rest of the first half. When last I checked, Collison is referred to as a point guard, so I would say that two assists in 32 minutes on the floor, is a tad underachieving. That said, his outburst of scoring in the third quarter did help keep the Kings in the game. A game that the Kings would have been blown out much earlier, if not for the Jazz playing give away. --Baja



    15min 2pts (1-5 0-2 0-0) 2reb 1ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
    Barnes ( D ) -- a "did he play?" sort of night, drifted off several three point shooters to help the Jazz, not on the boards, and didn't hit his shots. In other words, did not help. have to wonder a bit if the offcourt bit has damaged his leadership on the team.

    27min 12pts (5-9 2-3 0-0) 5reb 2ast 2stl 0blk 1TO
    Casspi ( B ) -- best bencher for the night, hit several threes, and even went in and challenged and finished over Gobert. Got the start after half and helped us sprint out to another lead, then disappeared, and forgotten about by Joerger until too late.

    12min 4pts (2-5 0-1 0-0) 2reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Cauley-Stein ( D ) -- hey, he grabbed 2 rebs. That's a big thing, as through 18 games our 7'1" centers is averaging 1.9rebs in 12.8min of action. That's a Per 36 of 5.3rebs per 36. Which is pretty good, for a PG.

    17min 5pts (2-6 0-1 1-1) 1reb 4ast 0stl 1blk 3TO
    Lawson ( C- ) -- outplayed by Sheldon Mack, whatever the numbers might say. Wasn;t sure what sort of attack her was trying to lead.

    24min 3pts (1-5 0-1 1-1) 2reb 1ast 2stl 1blk 0TO
    Temple ( C- ) -- we tried to use him on Hayward, and it didn't really work. And we are so reliant on Rudy and Cuz, that when they are off you really feel how punchless guys like Temple are offensively. Couldn't provide spacing.

    4min 0pts (0-0 0-0 0-0) 3reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Tolliver ( INC ) -- garbagetime

    4min 0pts (0-0 0-0 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
    Afflalo ( INC ) -- garbagetime
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  2. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    For the poll, you left out: "With great power comes great responsibility" :)
    Sac.1989 likes this.
  3. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    The optimist says the Kings are only 3 games out of the 8th seed.

    The pessimist says the Kings are only 3 games out of the worst record in the NBA.

    I'm a pessimist. Hard not to be when it comes to this team.

    At the very least it's time to trade Rudy. Ideally for a young player with potential and/or a late 1st rounder.
    kingsfan1984, Big Cuz 15 and Kingster like this.
  4. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I really wish Cousins would stop shooting so many three's...it's nice when they are dropping but he has become way too reliant. The 15th can't come soon enough, I'm ready for some rumors.
    kingjatt and k_dubb90 like this.
  5. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I'm a fan. Right now it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic for me. It's about realizing that, once again, I'm gonna be able to make vacation plans for May with no worries about conflicts.

    I'll still go to the game on Dec. 20 (my first time to G1C) and have a great time, but it's been forever since I really looked forward to watching a game at home...

    It's not easy being a Kings fan, but I still can't accept the idea of not being one, you know?
  6. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    Probably a good idea to give Cuz a break.

    But really does it matter? He sits, we lose, then he comes back and even if he has a rested rejuvenated game and the rest of his teammates will poop the bed and we'll probably lose again.

    To answer the poll; I don't care anymore. I've seen this song and dance too many times. And it's begun again.

    Will I boycott the team? Nope. I'll still be here. But I'm going to be whining and complaining up a storm the entire time.
    Chupacabra and hrdboild like this.
  7. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    It's time to blow it up. It's not working. First it was we needed to get Cuz a decent running mate so we found Rudy, but that hasn't worked. Then the excuse was we had too many injuries, but we've been very injury free this year (including Cuz playing in every game) and obviously that's not doing the trick. Next, the excuse was George Karl but then we hired a competent coach but that hasn't helped either. We also said we needed to surround Cuz with vets, which we've done, but that's not working either.

    At what point to we just admit, IT'S NOT WORKING and move on from the Cuz era? The clock is ticking and that asset will become less valuable as time goes on. Even if this team miraculously gets to .500 they have no chance of doing any damage in the playoffs and, furthermore, they are a BORING team to watch. I'd much rather watch kids bust their asses, grow together, and win 20-25 games.
  8. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    I've been both, at different points in my Fandom. At this stage, I don't consider myself to be either. I just try to view each game as a singular entity, and not concern myself with the rest of it. Besides which, I find that pessimists may be ill-suited temperamentally to be fans of losing teams.
  9. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    The fact it's nearly a guaranteed certainty the Kings can't turn DMC into positive assets is enough not to trade him. Do I know that for sure? Of course I don't, but I'm gonna go with history on this one. What makes you think the Kings can pull off a competent trade?

    There's a chance something good can be built around Cuz. What the hell does he need around him? I don't know. A PG, a SG, and a PF would help... Whatever is needed is more available than the hole trading him leaves. Seriously, the Kings trade him and they are a 76ers-esq laughing stock.

    There isn't much green grass round these parts, but the landscape is even worse on the other side of a DMC trade.
  10. swisshh

    swisshh Well-Known Member

    I feel Cousins had a poor game and poor effort. I want to see him on the low post and rolling on the pick n roll again. I can't remember the last time he rolled. He greatly struggled against Gobert, but he wasn't smart vs Gobert. Shotblockers want you to drive on them and that's all he did the whole game.

    The team needs to hit another notch above where they are and they can't seem to get there. McLemore starting has been an actual improvement, but still a lot of screw-ups and there is no staggering of minutes to have Gay or Cousins in at all times. I don't think Rudy finishes out the year here at this point.

    I feel that both the team needs tweaks and that it can't afford to be a lottery team again.
  11. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    We are already a laughingstock and have been for the last decade. To me, it's much more frustrating wining 32 games every year with a "HOF'er" in Cuz than it would be winning 20-25 with kids who are growing and could turn into something special, all while having a much better chance at a top 3-4 pick rather than the preverbal 7-10 we get every year which has produced a bunch of scrubs.
  12. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    Why would the Kings suddenly be able to grow someone special with a shiny new high pick? They already have someone special and here we are.
  13. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Oh, I'm an optimist in pretty much every other facet of my life but NBA fandom. The Kings have pretty much systematically beaten that out of me.

    When I'll start to worry is when/if I stop caring at all.

    This is another lost season. To me the only question is whether to trade anything of value (what little that may be) other than Cousins and rebuild around him yet again or to blow things up completely.

    I'd strongly lean towards the latter.
    kingdivac and Kingster like this.
  14. k_dubb90

    k_dubb90 Well-Known Member

    Gay for reke? We desperately need another playmaker that can get to the rim
    Big Cuz 15 likes this.
  15. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    Rebuilding without a young player like KAT or Porzingis is just sitting around twiddling your thumbs and waiting for your next franchise centerpiece. They fail or take extended periods of time often. If you're telling me you can't accept moral victories now, then I won't be able to accept moral victories when we're rebuilding with a bunch of kids that ultimately turn out to be complimentary pieces.
    SLAB likes this.
  16. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Which is precisely why you continue to make it work under all and any circumstances until you are left with either one of the two options; option 1 being the franchise gets sick of him/antics and option 2 being that he says he would like to move on, which we have yet to hear.
    SLAB likes this.
  17. jcwkings

    jcwkings Well-Known Member

    As talented as Cousins is, he can be lethargic and you can just see the negative aura that surrounds him throughout a game, especially when he is fatigued and things arent going his way. Your best player is supposed to be the guy that sets the tone and sadly you see time and time again the team becomes uninspired and volatile. Also doesnt help that your second best player is a guy that seems to be constantly just going through the motions.
  18. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Loving the whole idea of 2 of our key free agent acquisitions being our garbagetime players. Dat Veteran effect tho.
    KingMilz likes this.
  19. Kings Faithful

    Kings Faithful Well-Known Member

    We're in basketball limbo hell. We have veterans that don't play and don't contribute and we have Rookies and young players doing the exact some thing. Terrible.
  20. origkds

    origkds What- Me Worry? Contributor

  21. IfAt1st

    IfAt1st Well-Known Member

    Stick a fork in them.
    This team - no, this franchise - is one Laker loss away from being done for the foreseeable future.

    The coach has utterly failed to put in any offensive plays. He reneged on the promise of using Cuz in the elbow to pass to cutters, he's allowed Cuz to stay on the perimeter for 90% of the plays, and he is apparently teaching the guards to keep sagging off their men standing on the 3-pt line and killing us game after game after game after game with the 3-ball.

    He's alternately benched, then started the SG and SF.
    He still doesn't know who his best 5 players are.

    His Franchise Center is blatantly walking, standing still, or not even putting his arms up or jumping during many back-breaking plays. He prefers to shoot 3-ptrs instead of getting in the paint and battling for rebounds. He thinks he's Harden, KD, or Curry and can get away with the flailing shot raking across the defenders arm (newsflash, Cuz - you're not a guard or superstar, and you obviously don't know the rule they are exploiting, so stop trying and making yourself look foolish).

    Vlade mortgaged the future on the gamble that this group of players and coach could work together, play hard, and win in a league where their strengths are easy to nullify (emotionally unstable foul-prone dominant big man and disappearing second banana) while their weaknesses are tailor-made for the NBA to exploit (poor effort, iso offense, little clutch play, and a defense that deliberately allows 3-ptrs to protect the paint from guards that can't stay in front of their man + weak pick and roll defense).

    This team simply gave up after Matt Barnes' layup (the first shot of the 4th qtr) didn't go in for the tie.
    I told my family that they will probably not get that close again, and gave reasons why.
    Once this team gets 10+ points up on their opposition, they en masse think their work is done and stop trying hard, invariably giving away the lead and momentum and losing the game.
    Their offense consisted of passing or handing off the ball for 10 seconds, then forcing some iso shot with noone in the paint to corral rebounds.
    They seldom force penetration, which the entire offense seems dependent on.

    The Jazz game really exposed their team to be devoid of chemistry, camaraderie, or leadership.
    It really made me believe for the first time in 6 1/2 years, that we can never win with a player like Demarcus who it truly seems that noone wants to play with.
  22. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    The question for this team isn't whether to trade Gay and Cousins. Those are foregone conclusions. The question is: Divac? Look, if you really believe that you have a great GM, then what's the problem? He'll figure it out. He'll turn it around. He'll make great picks in the draft. He'll wheel; he'll deal. Before you know it we'll have hope again. We know that because the guy has a fantastic track record and he can do it again. Right? Nope. Divac has no track record, other than a bad one with the Kings, and for the life of me I can't come up with legitimate reasons to have confidence in him going forward.
    New Era, kingdivac and KingMilz like this.
  23. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    The saddest thing was not losing to a team without 4 of it's 6 best players and getting blown out while they commit double the turnovers, the saddest thing about the game to me was that Utah without 4 of it's 6 best players is still a way more talented team with more upside than the Kings.

    Also add Trey Lyles to the list of excellent compliments for Cousins we missed out on and if the average fan did not know Rudy Gobert after tonight they most definitely will.

    Can someone tell DMC he's not a SF like Melo/Lebron/Giannis and to actually stop driving and shooting 3's from the 3 point line I know he really likes to do it and has worked on it instead of developing a go to move in the post but come on a 300 pound man whose heavy boned should not be playing as a SF it will destroy his body and lead to nights like tonight.
  24. kingdivac

    kingdivac Well-Known Member

    Whether they can't afford it or not they are going to be a lottery team.....its clear. They cannot beat .500 teams to say anything of playoff teams. This management is sh^! Both a bungled free agency and draft. The draft especially miffs me; PAPA-G - WTF! No one is untradeable, that's what blowing up means.
  25. kingdivac

    kingdivac Well-Known Member

  26. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    This whole "we need vets" stuff was shaky from the beginning. It's not about vets or no vets in this league. It's about wether the talent you bring on the court fits together or not, it's about the players being able to bond with each other or not and it's about finding the right mixture of personalities to make a group of individuals work as a unit and first of all it's about covering each others weaknesses in order to be strong as a unit.
    Have we done that once in DMC years in SAC?

    Now DMC is a superstar. There simply is not doubt about that. But DMC isn't Lebron. He has very obvious strengths and weaknesses. He is a 6'11 260 lbs center in a league, that is dominated by the 3 pt shot to begin with. He has tendencies to force things, hogs the ball and has problems focusing and bringing effort for every minute of the game. He is not a high energy player due to the nature of his body and has problems keeping up in transition. He relies more on strength and playing thorugh contact, than on finesse or outfaking his opponent, resulting in sometimes poor efficiency, when calls don't go his way.

    Now have the Kings done enough to cover his weaknesses? In my mind that's not even a question, because honestly the Kings effort to build a team around Cousins are laughable at best.
    What you want around Cousins are high energy guys, that take pride in playing defense, are able to cover his weakness in pick&roll defense, that are able to bring enough effort to cover DMC, when he plummets and are able to do enough on offense to keep the team within striking distance, when DMC has a bad game.
    That's the foundation for a solid team around DMC. To really take the next step you would need an above average PG to take some responsibility on offense from DMC. But even without a good PG this team would be able to compete in this league, just as the Celtics were able to compete with IT surrounded by the type of players I described above.
    Now the only addition over the last years, that actually fits this description is Temple and to a lesser extent McLemore, who just didn't pan out the way we all hoped. Lawson does a suprisingly good job on D, but he is still a midget in a land of giants and has lost his touch on offense completely. Matt Barnes and Afflalo are over the hill kind of vets, that have come to SAC to collect their last paychecks (like Caron Butler did last year). Rudy Gay is about as horrible as it can be as a wing man for DMC, because he has even worse tendencies to lay back, hog the ball and force up shots, resulting in games, where your two best players are freezing the whole team out on offense.

    There is no doubt in my mind, that a team consiting out of - let's say - Beverly, Bradley, Harkless, Aminu with DMC would be a team hovering around .50 and making the playoffs pretty consistently. Add a competent PG to that team and you have a team, that might be able to make the conference finals just by playing good D and playing unselfish ball on offense.
    Is this kind of team unachievable, because SAC is such a horrible destination for FA's? Certainly not. This team is unachieveable, because we are witnesses of over a decade of constant missmanagement, of blowing almost every draft pick and of going after the wrong kind of players in FA.

    Sure we can move on from DMC. But then we alienanate the coach we just hired, because he didn't want to come here to coach a rebuilding team and without a complete turnaround in the way we handle everything on and off the court as a franchise, it will still not be enough to become successful someday.
    IfAt1st and CelticsFan like this.
  27. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I see the Karl fanboys are weighing in heavily.
    Joshoua likes this.
  28. G_M

    G_M Well-Known Member

    I've been a fan since 85. I've been a season ticket holder off and on as well during that time period.

    It's just entertainment to me and I've refrained from overly dramatic these are the last days of Rome type posts. BUT, it's getting harder to follow the team. Given the roster and draft pick situation it's hard to see a coherent way forward.

    The organization needs to put an "entertaining" product on the floor. Times have changed and the notion that Kings fans will just "show up" out of blind loyalty is misguided. Fans can take losing. But losing, boring, and no hope is a bad combination....
  29. KingMilz

    KingMilz Guest

    Marc Gasol is taking one massive dump on the narrative the Kings and Cousins in particular does not have enough help playing through a big man also Marc Gasol is not a HOF nor are his per 36 numbers HOF either or that of a prime Shaq/Hakeem/Wilt/Chamberlian.

    I guess the Memphis Grizzlies culture was not enough last year when he got injured but this year I guess it's there culture that's got them @17-8 and beating down the Warriors.
  30. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Yeah, those stupid Karl fanboys! This defense and offense under Joerger is so much better, not to mention how well he's developing our young talent! That senile Karl barely gave WCS any minutes or chances to develop! And having Cousins shoot all them 3s! Thank goodness we're finally rid of having our bigs lead our team in 3 point attempts this year or anything ridiculous like that!
    IfAt1st, 206Fan, Kingster and 3 others like this.

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