[Grades] Grades v. Celtics 12/2/2016
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
These are all explanations I've heard before but some of it doesn't add up. Horford already has a Nike deal. He's been in the league for 9 years. He won 2 national championships with Florida. He's not going to get any more national exposure than he already has unless he plays on a team that goes deep into the playoffs. Are there big money endorsement deals in a major market like LA that don't exist in Sacramento? Maybe if you're Kobe Bryant or Blake Griffin but Al Horford is a second banana on a good team not a superstar and he's known mostly for being a steady hard-working veteran who keeps to himself not for being a flashy personality.
And beyond that, LA has cultural cachet because it's a large city with a diverse population and a successful entertainment industry but for the most part players on the Lakers and Clippers are hocking the same local business nonsense you see everywhere else in the country. National exposure comes from playing games that people watch outside of the local market and like I said before, that generally comes from winning not being in a major city. Nobody is watching a crappy Lakers team (not even LA fans) and a ton of people are watching Cleveland because Lebron is there and the team wins. Most of them probably couldn't find Cleveland on a map either.
It's also significant that Durant didn't go to Boston and Al Horford signed there anyway. Taken as a whole, their supporting cast of Thomas/Bradley/Crowder isn't any better than Cousins/Gay/Collison or the Cousins/Gay/Rondo trio we had last season. Brad Stevens is a good coach but he's not some coaching legend like Greg Popovich. Not yet anyway. And they've had two seasons of marginal success (made the playoffs, lost in the first round) to back up their claim of being an up-and-coming team. So really it comes down to just a few additional factors:
(1) Boston went after Horford immediately and made him feel wanted. Did we even attempt to make him an offer or just assume that he wouldn't be interested because we're Sacramento? The report is we called Garrett Temple at midnight when Free Agency started. I like Temple, but that's setting our sights pretty low. (2) A chance to join a winning team. Boston was the 5th seed in the East last year while we were a train wreck. How much could competitive drive have really influenced him though when the team he left was the 4th seed in the East last year and beat the Celtics in the playoffs? His situation in Boston now is no better than the one he left in Atlanta. He still has no chance of beating Cleveland. (3) Staying on the East coast. I buy this as a factor but not the factor. (4) Tradition, the parquet court, the banners. Probably a factor for some players but for Horford specifically? Tough to say. Just speculation. (5) The Kings organization as far as everyone else is concerned is plumbing new depths of incompetence rarely achieved in professional sports. This is a big one and the fallout of the last 3 years of Vivek ownership could take a decade to scrub away.
Here's what Horford himself had to say:
(link)
While I think the small market stigma is a bit of an issue, there are 7 NBA teams that play in similar markets (Magic, Blazers, Hornets, Jazz, Pacers, Spurs, Bucks) and 3 more that play in substantially smaller markets (Pelicans, Grizzlies, Thunder). What's really handicapping us is the lack of a strong identity coming out of the front office. We're starting to see one develop now which is why I would never suggest firing Vlade or Coach Joerger unless they do something blatantly horrible. If the situation is good and the people involved are good, I don't think most players will care all that much if they're spending half the year in a top tier city or a middle tier city. The arena is no longer a handicap for us. The bickering coach/players/GM situation is no longer a handicap for us though bickering owners might still be...
Basically I think it's too easy to blame the city name for problems which are our own creation -- problems which would torpedo any team, regardless of locale. San Antonio and Indianapolis have managed to field teams that win consistently and attract free agents. Meanwhile Washington has the luxury of playing in the 4th biggest media market in the country and they've been floundering for decades. Management is what counts. A winning team with a superstar player in a new arena filled with enthusiastic fans isn't a bad gig. But management has to sell that to players and it's a tough sell given all the negative press they've already accumulated.
And beyond that, LA has cultural cachet because it's a large city with a diverse population and a successful entertainment industry but for the most part players on the Lakers and Clippers are hocking the same local business nonsense you see everywhere else in the country. National exposure comes from playing games that people watch outside of the local market and like I said before, that generally comes from winning not being in a major city. Nobody is watching a crappy Lakers team (not even LA fans) and a ton of people are watching Cleveland because Lebron is there and the team wins. Most of them probably couldn't find Cleveland on a map either.
It's also significant that Durant didn't go to Boston and Al Horford signed there anyway. Taken as a whole, their supporting cast of Thomas/Bradley/Crowder isn't any better than Cousins/Gay/Collison or the Cousins/Gay/Rondo trio we had last season. Brad Stevens is a good coach but he's not some coaching legend like Greg Popovich. Not yet anyway. And they've had two seasons of marginal success (made the playoffs, lost in the first round) to back up their claim of being an up-and-coming team. So really it comes down to just a few additional factors:
(1) Boston went after Horford immediately and made him feel wanted. Did we even attempt to make him an offer or just assume that he wouldn't be interested because we're Sacramento? The report is we called Garrett Temple at midnight when Free Agency started. I like Temple, but that's setting our sights pretty low. (2) A chance to join a winning team. Boston was the 5th seed in the East last year while we were a train wreck. How much could competitive drive have really influenced him though when the team he left was the 4th seed in the East last year and beat the Celtics in the playoffs? His situation in Boston now is no better than the one he left in Atlanta. He still has no chance of beating Cleveland. (3) Staying on the East coast. I buy this as a factor but not the factor. (4) Tradition, the parquet court, the banners. Probably a factor for some players but for Horford specifically? Tough to say. Just speculation. (5) The Kings organization as far as everyone else is concerned is plumbing new depths of incompetence rarely achieved in professional sports. This is a big one and the fallout of the last 3 years of Vivek ownership could take a decade to scrub away.
Here's what Horford himself had to say:
(link)
While I think the small market stigma is a bit of an issue, there are 7 NBA teams that play in similar markets (Magic, Blazers, Hornets, Jazz, Pacers, Spurs, Bucks) and 3 more that play in substantially smaller markets (Pelicans, Grizzlies, Thunder). What's really handicapping us is the lack of a strong identity coming out of the front office. We're starting to see one develop now which is why I would never suggest firing Vlade or Coach Joerger unless they do something blatantly horrible. If the situation is good and the people involved are good, I don't think most players will care all that much if they're spending half the year in a top tier city or a middle tier city. The arena is no longer a handicap for us. The bickering coach/players/GM situation is no longer a handicap for us though bickering owners might still be...
Basically I think it's too easy to blame the city name for problems which are our own creation -- problems which would torpedo any team, regardless of locale. San Antonio and Indianapolis have managed to field teams that win consistently and attract free agents. Meanwhile Washington has the luxury of playing in the 4th biggest media market in the country and they've been floundering for decades. Management is what counts. A winning team with a superstar player in a new arena filled with enthusiastic fans isn't a bad gig. But management has to sell that to players and it's a tough sell given all the negative press they've already accumulated.
uh, why would any name NBA player come to Sacramento after seeing how badly Demarcus is treated by the franchise, and how little his desires are taken into account?
If anyone thinks the Kings have catered to Demarcus since he's been drafted here, they've been listening too much to Grant.
The star player, the coach(es), the ownership are quite clearly not on the same page here, and haven;t been for over 10 years.
THAT's why no name player will come here until the Kings demonstrate they are fully behind their star (Boogie), treat him right, and give him what he wants.
Hell, Boogie doesn;t even get the starting PF next to him he wants on this team right now!
If anyone thinks Boogie wants to play next to Kosta, you haven;t been watching the team close enough the past couple years...
If anyone thinks the Kings have catered to Demarcus since he's been drafted here, they've been listening too much to Grant.
The star player, the coach(es), the ownership are quite clearly not on the same page here, and haven;t been for over 10 years.
THAT's why no name player will come here until the Kings demonstrate they are fully behind their star (Boogie), treat him right, and give him what he wants.
Hell, Boogie doesn;t even get the starting PF next to him he wants on this team right now!
If anyone thinks Boogie wants to play next to Kosta, you haven;t been watching the team close enough the past couple years...
When a player has game, can create his shot, teammates recognize. Teammates ain't recognizing (or respecting) Affalo. He's not creating his shot. He's not creating space against his defender. He's not prone to hot streaks where he demands the ball. His post game is pretty good but he's not getting many opportunities. Teammates all intuit this and react accordingly. By contrast one improvement in Ben is that he's more aggressive as a shot taker this year, though his efficiency is not where it needs to be:
The difference is that Ben is the more aggressive shot taker, and we need an aggressive SG to spread the wealth. Boogie's efficiency is good at 56.4% TS but it is slipping from where it was at 58% about 1-2 weeks ago because his teammates are not carrying their respective load of the scoring burden. We need Affalo to make plays of his own volition, command the ball, command the respect of his teammates, but that hasn't happened because he's NOT good enough.
Here's a comprehensive and detailed analysis: OUR STARTING SG IS NOT GOOD!!! SOMETHING HIGHLY PREDICTABLE IN AUGUST.
At this point it is a matter of Joerger saying to himself "how much longer can I wait on this guy to be the player we need to be?" If he has any confidence in him, he has more confidence in him than I do. I have seen enough from Affalo and his best is not good enough. At least with Ben, youth is on his side, and his best play is ahead of him. Affalo's best is in the rear view mirror, so let's stop looking back and start looking forward and right this ship before another season bites the dust.
- A-Slow-o : 7 shots attempts in 26 MPG
- Ben: 6 shot attempts in 16 MPG
The difference is that Ben is the more aggressive shot taker, and we need an aggressive SG to spread the wealth. Boogie's efficiency is good at 56.4% TS but it is slipping from where it was at 58% about 1-2 weeks ago because his teammates are not carrying their respective load of the scoring burden. We need Affalo to make plays of his own volition, command the ball, command the respect of his teammates, but that hasn't happened because he's NOT good enough.
Here's a comprehensive and detailed analysis: OUR STARTING SG IS NOT GOOD!!! SOMETHING HIGHLY PREDICTABLE IN AUGUST.
At this point it is a matter of Joerger saying to himself "how much longer can I wait on this guy to be the player we need to be?" If he has any confidence in him, he has more confidence in him than I do. I have seen enough from Affalo and his best is not good enough. At least with Ben, youth is on his side, and his best play is ahead of him. Affalo's best is in the rear view mirror, so let's stop looking back and start looking forward and right this ship before another season bites the dust.
Make Afflalo take more shots, more threes. When has he done this? Through game plan and deliberate effort of teammates. Let's try it. I have not seen such an effort this season. Make the team try this and, if necessary, let him fail doing it for a series of games. We're not winning anyway so why not try it.
I agree. Unfortunately it is not on as much as we need, and I get the feeling it has something to do with just going through the motions until he is traded. We need what he can bring, I just don't think he really wants to bring it. I am definitely not placing all blame on Rudy and he is a great player. I just get a sense of negative energy surrounding the situation with Rudy, and we are not going to be successful if we just stand pat.
What's this?
We lost an OT game on the road, on the second night of a back to back. And we got narrowly beat by a getting healthy Boston team that is considered a possible homecourt team in the East.
We need some wins, but people all season long have been tagging our losses as "pathetic", "horrible" etc. etc. in just headhsaking fashion. Orlando and Milwaulkee are really the only two headslappers, and Milwaulkee was a .500 team on their home floor. We just obviously did not show up/it should have been closer. But losing was hardly inexplicable.
We lost an OT game on the road, on the second night of a back to back. And we got narrowly beat by a getting healthy Boston team that is considered a possible homecourt team in the East.
We need some wins, but people all season long have been tagging our losses as "pathetic", "horrible" etc. etc. in just headhsaking fashion. Orlando and Milwaulkee are really the only two headslappers, and Milwaulkee was a .500 team on their home floor. We just obviously did not show up/it should have been closer. But losing was hardly inexplicable.
I have no problem with Willie's effort on offense. If you don't touch the ball, it's hard to do much of anything. My issue with him is with his rebounding. His reactions to the ball are a step too late, or not at all. I find him being a spectator instead of moving toward the basket. I have no answer as to why, because I doubt it's being lazy. I also doubt it's by design. Defensively he's very good at times, and then makes a mistake, like playing a little too far off of Horford after he had already hit a couple of three's.
Now to be fair, Willie wasn't the only player to play too far off of Horford. It's just that we seem to be holding Willie to a higher standard for some reason. Every mistake gets magnified on this forum, while Cuz, or Koufos can make the same mistake, and nothing is said. Truth is, a young player is more likely to make mistakes. Offensively Willie has taken what's there for the most part, and when it's not there, he moves the ball. He seldom turns the ball over which is a plus. It's obvious to me that for the most part, Willie isn't the first, second, third or even fourth option on offense. Maybe that will change in the future. But for now, he needs to become a better rebounder and I'll be happy.
Now to be fair, Willie wasn't the only player to play too far off of Horford. It's just that we seem to be holding Willie to a higher standard for some reason. Every mistake gets magnified on this forum, while Cuz, or Koufos can make the same mistake, and nothing is said. Truth is, a young player is more likely to make mistakes. Offensively Willie has taken what's there for the most part, and when it's not there, he moves the ball. He seldom turns the ball over which is a plus. It's obvious to me that for the most part, Willie isn't the first, second, third or even fourth option on offense. Maybe that will change in the future. But for now, he needs to become a better rebounder and I'll be happy.