[Grades] Grades, Kings vs. Suns 10-23-17

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Capt. Factorial, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    Nobody has made this thread yet, probably because nobody really wants to re-live this one. But now here it is. I don't expect too many vowels in the grades tonight, but call 'em as you see 'em!
  2. DeMoN

    DeMoN Active Member

    Hill - F
    Buddy - C-
    JJ - C-
    Zbo - F
    WCS - D+

    Fox - B
    Bogdan - B
    Koufas - D
    Skal - B+
    Carter - D (Not sure what he did)

    Pretty disappointed with the veterans Zbo and Hill. I'd bench them for a game to send a message that competition should be thriving. Bring them back the next and make it a level playing field. They cant be putting up such dreadful empty minutes. Let Fox show what he can do when in control. Offense moves nicely with him and I think Skal works great with him. Skal is a great bailout and will be a stud. Willie is extremely frusterating to watch when we are getting pounded on the glass.. Which always happens with our starters. Doesn't help the team out at all. Buddy needs to figure out how to get involved early and keep a rythemn. I think he will be fine tho. Methodical player it seems like, but he's gotta figure out some things still.
  3. Nokidding

    Nokidding Member

    That loss is on the coach waited way to long to bring in Bogdan/Fox in the first and lost us the game. Great efforts by Fox/Bogie/Temple/Skal but yeah not sure what Dave was thinking we would have won that game be 15 if he actually subbed players playing poorly.

    Team looks like an NBA team when you have two playmakers on the floor in Fox/Bogie it was no accident WCS/Skal got it going in the 2nd half when they were paired with those guys.

    Hill simply can't break down a defense and having him as the primary playmaker is terrible he's never been that in his entire career he's always been a 3rd/4th option who at times handles the ball.

    If Fox can keep this level of play up I would try move Hill when he's eligible for either a starting PF/SF
    Blob likes this.
  4. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    Hill - F
    Buddy - C
    JJ - B-
    Zbo - F
    WCS - C-

    Fox - B-
    Bogdan - B-
    Koufas - F
    Skal - B
    Carter - F
  5. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Huh everybody is down on Kosta? Dude had 6 offensive boards in 22 minutes. I agree, that he isn't much of a finesse guy, but he is the ultimate workhorse of NBA basketball. With this in mind I would give him a C, because he missed a couple of easy shots and had trouble on the line. Until Willie finally proves he can be consistent KK is still valuable.
  6. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    I have no complaints following this game. Once again, lots of our guys showed ability & potential, and the team competed and almost pulled out a win after being down by about 80-2.
    Bogdan (B-) was spectacular - until he couldn't make a shot to save his life. But it's easy to see that he's going to be part of the exciting core of this young team.
    Willie (C) again had some good moments and looks like he will become our double-double guy at some point this season. I am noticing, however, that Willie has a bad habit of telegraphing his passes. I learned about that in high school, so I'm always surprised to see (some) NBA players play so dumb. Willie needs to work on that before other teams learn to exploit it even more. He also needs to fight a little harder for good positioning, instead of relying on his athleticism to make up for it.
    De’Aaron (B) continues to be a bright spot. I'm not sure that he needs to get stronger. It might not hurt (if he did), but he holds his own in a crowd. He's (obviously) exceptionally quick with a high IQ, but he's also long and wiry, and it works for him.
    Buddy (C-) was the focus of my rage in the first quarter for playing like a dummy, but he was sure fun to watch in the 3rd Q when he played like a scrapper on a 10-day contract. Not sure where we are heading with Buddy and Bogie. One of em needs to become our instant offense 6th man. My guess is that'll be Buddy.
    Hill (D) didn't look good in this game either. I hope he breaks out of his chains soon, because Fox is already the more effective PG after just 4 games.
    JJ (C-) may never get points for being spectacular, but I think he'll be solid at SF by the end of the year. We're just going to have to endure his growing pains (mistakes and sometimes passive play) and hope that he can find a bit more strength. I don't really see any muscle definition with him. On the other hand, I can't honestly say that I see other SFs taking advantage of him being a 'weakling.'
    Kosta (B) had his best game so far. Wish he'd learn to hit his free throws. And the playmakers on the team need to be more selective about when/how to get the ball in his hands, because Kosta is a bit slow with the eye-hand coordination.
    Skal (B) had another good game. It's painful watching him make so many mistakes, but his offense is so needed by this team. I don't see how he isn't starting over the old guy in the Z-Bo costume.
    Temple (B+) would have deserved an 'A' if we had pulled out the win. He simply does it all for us. Defense always. Offense when needed. Player-coach always. I loved when he was preparing for a jump ball and he motioned (decisively) with his arm for where Skal needed to be. Sort of like telling a kindergartner, "Stand right here. Catch the ball."
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  7. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    It's an ongoing trend these days. WCS played like an absolute wuss out there. Getting absolutely murked by Tyson Chandler and having a big hand in the team going down by 22 points to the worst team in the league. Then Kosta comes in with just his regular natural toughness and all the sudden Chandler becomes an after thought for the rest of the game. Almost completely irrelevant after dominating WCS for a quarter. WCS made him look like prime Chandler. Kosta reminded him that he's old.

    Yeah the guy doesn't deserve an A because he bricked his free throws and continued his unKosta like inefficient offense but give the guy some credit because he's every bit the defender Temple is, if not better.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  8. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I love to look at Popcorn Machines Game Flow charts. It allows you to see who was on the floor and how the game went. Koufos was the Big when the tide turned in the 1st and 2nd halfs:

    Click here--> http://www.popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171023&game=SACPHO

    To me the best front court duo is Kosta and Willie. I like Willie as a PF.
  9. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Willie was in at the end and was part of the crew that made the game close. His defense is very under rated IMO.
  10. Kingsroots

    Kingsroots Active Member

    The problem with WCS like others have said, is consistency. He can play good defense but he doesn't do it all the time. Imo his perimeter defense on switches especially can be elite however his interior defense too often is bad. I hesitate to say he's lazy it just seems like his mindset is to be a small forward instead of a center.
    SCKingsfan likes this.
  11. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    should of played the Chriss stopper Papa, you know those two would of loved to wrestle
  12. GoSACtown

    GoSACtown Active Member

    Why did Buddy not play in the 4th? He absolutely killed it in the 3rd, and that's his reward?

    Sometimes I wonder what Joerger's agenda is.
    kingsfan1984 and Blob like this.
  13. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    WCS was out to lunch in this game, or lazy. Pick one, or both. No interior defense whatsoever: E. Turner said so at half time: "Horrible." Unfortunately, Kosta is earth-bound and can't block shots even when motivated and it was a feed-fest in the paint for the Suns.

    The irony of it all: The vets who were brought here to show the youngins how to get mentally and emotionally prepared for a game were totally mentally and emotionally unprepared for this game. They should be extremely embarrassed by this game.

    Why play Randolph at all unless you're going to post him up and give him the ball? It's not like he's a great defender at the 3 point line, or that he's much of a help defender in the paint at this point in his career.

    Bogs was by far the highlight of the night. Love his BBIQ and his overall play.
    kingsfan1984 and Blob like this.
  14. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Z-Boing (F)

    Z-Boing has scored 24 points this season on 32 shots.... 24 million dollars down the tubes!!!!

    What an egregious signing and squandering of valuable cap space resources.....terrible!!!

    Our offense rating when he is on the floor is 80. The team does not function when he was on the floor. Period.

    As I stated prophetically in my season preview, Z-Boing was a "problem waiting to happen". Houston, Sacramento, WE have a problem!

    How long will it take for Joerger to admit his endorsement of this guy and probably main reason he is in a Kings uniform was a monumental blunder????

    He has NO trade value NO mobility NO interior defense NO hope NO competitive fire and NO conscious to prevent launching the ball every time he touches it!

    But he has his backpack feel-good supply and payday every two weeks so life is A-OK for Z-Boing! Keep cashing them checks Z-Boing!

    Boggy (B)

    Now onto Boggy....I liked (loved) what I saw. Good to great defender. Good to great knack for setting up teammates.

    He has stop-on-a-dime ability. His running gait is slightly rigid and awkward which belies his athleticism which is pretty good.

    Just like De'Aaron, Boggy missed some chippies that he needs to make but I am not concerned with shots going in in first NBA game of career.

    I am concerned about the quality of shots he got. He got good to great quality shots.

    And he set up his teammates unlike Malachi or Jackson is capable of....which makes Boggy the logical new starter at the small forward in probably 5-10 games if not sooner.

    My concern before Boggy came here was adopting to the speed of the game and increased size and athleticism....This is still an open question but first game was encouraging albeit against garbage defense. What I am NOT sure about after Game 1 if his 5-15 FGs was because he was sped up and forced to play at a pace too fast for his skill set, or if it was just a matter of rust and newness and first game jitters. I tend to lean towards the latter and expect that as he gains more comfort and rhythm with new teammates over the next month the same shots he missed last night he is going to start making 50% or more....In other words last night game will be 8-15 FGs or 10-15 FGs once he gets his legs and bearings under him.

    Lord knows we could use another potential star on this roster to add to Buddy, Skal, Fox and Giles. :)

    Buddy (B)

    Buddy is not performing to my standards or expectations on the offensive side of the ball, only 6-15 FGs last night, and making only 36% FGs and 12 PPG.....UGH!

    But he did have his BEST 17 minutes as a Sacramento King defensively with 5 steals including 3 steals in the span of a couple of minutes......and what does this coach do to reward him???

    Pretty much benches him in the 4th quarter. For a coach to preach defense then sit the guy who provided that defensive spark, I don't know how I feel about that.

    Our offense is a mess right now so I think that should be the focus of the coach to get the offense mix right with rotations and play sets, but I think Joerger could have found more than 17 minutes for Buddy.

    If this game is any indication, Joerger has a fondness for Boggy. He has said in an interview he thinks "he can be a stud". My hope is the minutes Boggy gets come at the expense of Jackson not Buddy.
  15. Gliesian

    Gliesian Well-Known Member

    Fox and Bog could be one of the great guard pairs of this league. I would like to see them start with Temple Skal and WCS or Papagiannis. I only include Papa bc Skal and WCS is a lil redundant and Papa is a wall of meat.
    VF21 and dude12 like this.
  16. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Buddy Hield was awful defensively in the first quarter once again. Works his tail off and he gambled and got some steals and made plays but he is not good defensively.
    ppine and Kingster like this.
  17. curiousfork

    curiousfork New Member

    I wish Buddy had another good skill besides scoring. He's very ball stoppy/greedy/I'ma get my shot. He needs to flow in the offense or just be better on D.

    I know they joke about how Buddy wants to shoot but I clearly saw at least once where Willie was just watching Buddy do his thing knowing he's probably not going to pass it.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    KingsFanGER likes this.
  18. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Okay. Just got back from a full day at the studio. Watched the game backstage between rehearsals and on the train ride home and honestly the less said about parts of this game the better so this may be shorter than usual.


    Justin Jackson (C+) --
    Had his best game as a King. Finally had a chance to make an impact on offense after his first stint on the court. On defense, he wasn't exactly a stopper but at least tried and had enough mobility to not just be completely lapped on that end. You couldn't at least see why Joerger decided to give him the starting job with his play tonight.

    Zach Randolph (F) --
    There's not much good to say about Z-Bo's performance. Looked positively putrid out on the floor trying to defend the much more mobile and spry Chriss. On offense, he hit everything but the inside of the hoop. I don't imaging Z-Bo's had too many zero burgers in his career but this would be one of them.

    Willie Caulie-Stein (C) --
    After a strong start to his season, has sorta fallen back into old passive habits. Still can surprise you with a good pass or two but generally struggled to get any sort of offensive rhythm going and didn't provide much rebounding.

    Buddy Hield (C) --
    If Dave Joerger only played Buddy in the third quarters of all the Kings' games this season, he'd be an A+ player. In the first half, he was probably the one guy most responsible for the team falling into a deep deficit, what with his craptastic shooting and inability to let the game come to him. In the third quarter, Buddy's anxious play became a positive as his nervous energy manifested itself as one of the most unexpected defensive outbursts in recent memory. All that only served to bump him back up to a C. The first half was that bad.

    George Hill (D-) --
    His starting role is suddenly no longer as set in stone as it was prior to this road trip. Had a second consecutive horrible game. Tried to play defense but considering that the Phoenix Suns point guard depth chart sans Bledsoe featured Mike James starting, couldn't really affect things on that end.

    ---
    De'Aaron Fox (B+) --
    Yet another good game from Fox. You sorta run out of things to say when a guy's been as solidly good as he's been to start his career. At this point, I could see him starting in the coming weeks.

    Skal Labissiere (B) --
    Skal continues to look good thus far into the young season. While he's not not exactly out for blood, he's been playing more aggressively than he has at most other points in his career. On defense, Skal still isn't the strongest but his length allows him to affect more plays than they would a lesser talent. Also, that outback dunk was nasty.

    Bogdan Bogdanovic (B) --
    And so the Bogman cometh. It took a couple of games but Boggy finally made his debut and apparently not a moment too soon. With the team down by seemingly a hundred, Bogdan entered the game with Fox and Skal and the flavor of the game immediately changed for the better. While it looked like he ran out of stream in the second half (understandable since he's been hurt for a couple of weeks), in the second half,

    Garrett Temple (A-) --


    Kosta Koufos (C) --


    Vince Carter (inc.) --
    Once again got token old guy NBA legend minutes. Didn't really do much.
  19. ppine

    ppine Well-Known Member

    I more or less agree with the above comments. The fact that Hill and Randolph provided no leadership during the game with the Suns is very troubling. They didn't settle anyone down, pump them up or lead with assists. Carter was a non-facotr. The veterans may be making the most contribution in practice and in the locker room. They sure did not have it last night.

    On the other hand Fox and Bogie were unreal. They do not play like rookies. Skal played well especially with those guys. Temple deserves some special recognition for playing great defense and launching accurate 3s. Fox and Bogie don't turn the ball over. They play great defense for young guys. They deserve more minutes.

    Last night was the first time I wanted to trade KK. His interior defense was terrible. He missed foul shots and played like he was wearing mittens.

    Buddy and Willie were their usual boo/yeah. They are young, they have talent, but they are hard to watch at times. I hope they can get emotionally squared away soon.

    Booker and James played some great basketball last night. I was impressed especially in the 4th quarter. The Suns may not shoot it like they did last night for a month. They had something to prove and they did. They deserve a lot of credit. I watched Chriss play UW. He has great talent, but his brain is a lot like DMC. He is going to be better than people think. I look forward to a Suns rematch.

    Coach J needs to figure out how to get the Kings ready to play. They have had some really bad first quarters.
  20. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    The maturity, mentality, and understanding of the game between Hield & Bogdanovic is night & day. Hield too often forces the issue & looks for his while Bogdanovic lets the game come to him, scores within the flow of the offense, and is a very willing passer.

    I did like the fact that Hield seemed to pickup his defensive intensity after Bogdanovic tore it up in his first stint. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is what competition is all about and what competition can contribute to the development of our young players.

    I just hope Hield can one day learn that finding the best shot for his team is better than trying to find the best shot for himself. That is one of the biggest things holding him back at the moment.
  21. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    *Low Sample Size*

    upload_2017-10-24_13-34-11.png

    To get a sense for who's actually helping the team on the floor statistically thus far.

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