[Grades] GRADES: Kings v. Boogie, 10/26/17

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by VF21, Oct 26, 2017.

?

Who would win in a fight?

  1. Boogie

    47.1%
  2. Papa

    11.8%
  3. a bear

    41.2%
  1. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Placeholder for Tetsujin.
  2. c-webb1s#1

    c-webb1s#1 Well-Known Member

  3. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    Boogie - (A+) - For old times sake. ;)
  4. Kingz19

    Kingz19 Well-Known Member

    Nothing like experience I’ll tell you hwat
    c-webb1s#1 likes this.
  5. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    SLAB likes this.
  6. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    Well, at least the Kings have been competitive in every game.

    They need to learn how to win and close out games.

    I'm ready for Fox and Skal to start! ;)
  7. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I was a bit disappointed in the fans tonight. The cheers for Cousins weren't nearly as loud as I expected and there was a lot of incessant booing throughout the game. I'd say the cheer Webber got was about the same as the cheer Cousins got. Obviously Webber was better but it's been over a decade and he's been through here a dozen times before so I expected the roar to be a bit more lopsided than that.

    Willie played like a wuss again.

    Koufos played like a non wuss, but still a backup.

    Fox had his first poor game of the season but one thing I like is that his turnovers have gone down in each game he's played this season.

    Joerger's rotations were awful. I thought we were supposed to be developing the young guys here?

    Skal played solidly and got rewarded with only 15 minutes.

    Hield never got a chance to get back in the game, which is very disappointing for a guy who is supposed to be a potential cornerstone.

    Jackson had a fantastic first quarter. Good to see him get some confidence.

    Bogdan is pretty impressive. Should have had a couple more assists but his passes were mishandled. Ginobili is a good comparison for him.

    Vets were horse poo poo outside of the first quarter. A few of us groaned at the end when ZBo was put back in. I figured that would be the nail in the coffin and it was.
  8. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Bogie (C) - Some good stuff. Wasn't moving with the ball as well as the last game. Nice crossover on national TV.

    Willie (B) - No idea what his stats were, but he seemed to play fairly well tonight. Did he come close to a double-double? Cause that's about where we need him to be.

    De’Aaron (B-) - Not his best game to date, but still was the most effective PG on the Kings. He chucked a couple of shots that he could have passed to a teammate in a better position. Only saw him run the afterburners twice.

    Buddy (C) - Think he played his best game of the year, although he still wasn't particularly good. Would liked to have seem him get a few shots in the closing minutes.

    George (C+) - Better. But still not where he needs to be as a starter.

    Justin (C+) - Seemed to play well with the minutes he got. For a rookie.

    Kosta (C+) - Glass hands, Slow feet. But still our best rebounder and one of our best defenders.

    Skal (B-) - The usual blend of good shooting, (at least) one great block, and a few dumb mistakes.

    Zach (C) - Started off well, but probably ran out of energy. Or life. He seems worth about 12-15 min a game right now. Right Coach???

    Garrett (B) - Every game reinforces that Temple is a great guy to have on your team. Very nice step-back move tonight.
  9. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Were you at the game? If so, did Webb shake hands with Vivek at any point? Just morbid curiosity on my part...
  10. Nokidding

    Nokidding Member

    Joeger is just been beyond awful this year, unless he's trying to loss games than he's doing a masterful job.

    Jackson plays his best game for the year....his reward watching VC take terrible shots for no reason
    Hield plays decent....his reward not coming back into the game after being subbed out both half's
    Skal excellent first half stint his reward...watching ZBo
    Temple goes full Matt Barnes with woeful shot selection and 3-4 completely careless turnovers and gets to play out the game

    WTF is going on here? The vets suck (Temple excluded) stop playing them and get some decent line ups on the floor.

    Fox and Bogie are the only two players on the squad that can break down the defense and run a pick n roll and yet neither is in the starting line up.
  11. sactowndog

    sactowndog Member

    I would give Bogie a higher grade and Fox a lower grade. Bogie scored 10 points and almost all were self generated. He did not have a single catch and shoot. His only assisted basket was his leak out lay-up. It’s pee poor point guard play when one of your best shooters never gets the ball an entire game in a position to shoot.

    To me Bogie was a B and Fox was a C-.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  12. andjel

    andjel Well-Known Member

    Another game, nothing changed.
    Kids are still kids (promising), BB8 is BB8, KK is KK, Temple is Temple and 3 retired guys are still retired.

    I do not have problem though with rotation.
    There is a value in stability and message that even if you are not performing well a couple games, it is ok. You will not be jerked out each time you mess something up.
    Also, there is a value in watching how not to play and to have minutes slowly increased to avoid injury or playing half gassed.

    We have time for the above, but if by the end of December we still have the same minute distribution, than it will be time to worry.

    Just putting a positive spin on rotation :)
  13. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Joerger is doing a masterful job of being patient. Young guys need to play better defense. Too many on here are looking at small picture. If you are being honest, you know that Fox, Hield, Skal and Jackson have not been good defensively.

    I prefer that Joerger and his staff keep looking at big picture and holding these young bucks accountable on the defensive side and that means less PT. Playing time is how that staff is going to get more out of these guys and next year or 2 years from now, we really might have something on our hands. I prefer this to the occasional win now.......doesn't really matter if we get 28 wins or 20 wins does it?
  14. Flopi

    Flopi Active Member

    I agree 100% on this part.
    But how do you explain that Zach "I can't move my feet so I don't play defense AT ALL" Randolph was given 29 minutes ?
  15. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Because the alternative is to give it to Skal and at this point, Joerger would rather reward Skal when he's doing the correct things on defense. Zbo won't be here for the future but these kids will. Joerger has said it before, it's not about wins and losses right now, as frustrating as that is going to be for the fans, it's about getting these kids to be the very best they can be. I trust Joerger and the staff....they have done it over and over in their careers. We could put the kids out their for 36 minutes a night but we tried that with Ben and it was disastrous. Keep these young guys hungry and hold them to the highest of expectations on defense. The reward is down the road....not a one game victory.
  16. BigBlanky

    BigBlanky New Member

    Boogie is averaging 39/18/5 in 2 games vs the Kings.
  17. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    Most lottery teams just play their youth and Joerger’s allotment and “earn it” stuff is contradictory to popular practice.. I’m worried that it’s borne out of trying to win meaningless games at the expense of development, as I was last year, but I hope it pays off
    CelticsFan likes this.
  18. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Yes it does that’s the difference between Doncic or Bridges and I’ll take Doncic
  19. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    lost to Boogie & scrubs...19 point lead. shouldn't of come to that but that's what you get with inexperience. Riding the vets for too much, need more Jackson, Skal and would love to see Mason play rather than Hill who is providing a solid 5 PPG
  20. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    Yeah I was but unfortunately my view of where Webber was sitting was blocked.

    Is there some sort of drama there?
  21. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    This is what I saw watching that 3rd quarter again with my DVR:

    WCS being flat-footed against Cousins and gets beat to the basket (like we've seen against Noel, Nene, et al) ; WCS getting beat down the floor by Cousins running end-to end. An offensive possession where WCS throws up a running hook that isn't close.
    Hield not realizing that the ball was being thrown to him, so the ball flies out of bounds. (Just like when Hill threw the ball off his back in the previous game). Hield getting the ball at the 3 point line when the defender is not 10' from him, but decides instead to take the ball in the paint against three Pels' defenders and misses.
    Randolph getting picked on by Pels' coach who set it up for him to guard the 3 point line as well as have him as a back-line defender where he is useless; Joerger used Randolph with some effectiveness in the post on offense, but it meant a lot of standing around by others
    Hill not being able to beat Holiday one on one off the dribble; Holiday slaps ball easily off Hill's leg and it goes out of bounds; that's just not Hill's game; he's not going to break down defenses one-on-one; he likes picks to get open
    Skal dribbling into a double team rather than make the easy pass or dribbling away from the double team. (He gets bailed out by Clark who fouls him).
    Bogs trying to make the tough fancy one-handed pass rather than an easy pass to a wide open Fox near at the wing of the 3 point line; the result is that the ball flies out of bounds.
    Fox taking the up-fake of Clark, who waltzes in for an easy basket.

    Also, there were wide open shots that were missed by Hield, Jackson, and WCS.

    Overall, it's a team that lost its poise, didn't have confidence, and was thinking a lot rather than going out and competing in a free flowing manner. Having vets on the floor didn't help. I said at the beginning of the season that having older vets who don't run and younger plays who can only run (because of their lacking of experience in set-offenses) is going to pose a dilemma for Joerger. Sure, he does get the mentoring and valuable experience on the floor from the vets, but at the expense of being to really use the athleticism of the younger guys. It may be that Joerger is willing to sacrifice a few wins at the beginning of the season in order to have this somewhat schizo team on the floor and have his vets instruct the young guys. I don't know. But eventually Joerger is going to have to have all young or moderately young players on the floor at the same time who can compete in a running game.
  22. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Justin Jackson () -- 15 min, 7 pts, 1 rb, 1 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 0 tov, 0 pf


    Zach Randolph () -- 29 min, 13 pt, 9 rb, 3 ast, 0 stl, 1 blk, 2 tov, 0 pf


    Willie Caulie-Stein () -- 29 min, 12 pt, 2 reb, 3 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 0 tov, 0 pf


    Buddy Hield () -- 19 min, 12 pt, 3 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 2 tov, 2 pf


    George Hill () -- 30 min, 6 pt, 3 reb, 5 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 1 tov, 3 pf


    ---
    Kosta Koufos () --


    Garrett Temple () --


    De'Aaron Fox () --


    Skal Labissiere () --


    Bogdan Bogdanovic () --


    Vince Carter (old) -- 7 min, 3 pt, 1 rb, 1 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 0 tov, 2 pf
    SLAB likes this.
  23. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    On that play, it looked to me like Hield had already started a cut to the basket before the pass was made to his previous position - I had that play down as the fault of the passer (who I think was Randolph, but I'm not sure).
    VF21 and kingsfan1984 like this.
  24. FoxOnTheRun

    FoxOnTheRun New Member

    Not to take anything away from Cousins’ incredible night, but Dave Joeger completely **** the bed last night. He lost the game for us.
    Blob likes this.
  25. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Boggy (A-)

    Boggy made a beautiful bounce pass with score 101-98 with 5 minute left to Oven Mitts under the basket drawing two defenders to him and all Koufos had to do was dunk it.....KER-PLANK! I thought the team and the arena became deflated when Koufos threw up trash and the game was effectively over. Missing point blank shots is not anything new for Koufos. Any dedicated fan has seen it 100 times before. It is almost masochistic to invest emotionally in a player like this who is going to disappoint, invite pain and frustration!

    What allows me to keep my sanity as a Kings fan when I see deadweight and unbridle incoordination on the roster year after year is to detach and laugh instead of cry. I jump ship and withdraw my rooting interest from Kings players who are futile. Every year there is players in the rotation who pretty much ruin any chance at flow and sustained success going back to Jason Hart, Marcus Thornton and Jason Thompson. Last year was Affalo and Barnes and after a decent start, Ben. This year it is Z-Bong, Koufos and Carter. They are not going to lead us anywhere.... so guess what I am NOT cheering for them!

    Why would anyone want to subject themselves to this futility?!? It is either lack of intelligence or insight as NBA fan or masochism! Any bright moments of play from them is pure fools gold. They may deceive when the opponent is disinterested, when the stars are aligned or superior teammates make them look good, but these moments defy the predominant trend. Last night was Z-Bong's best game, but that is NOT a player you can win with. Trust me, when Z-Bong does something good, it is a negative in disguise, because it only encourages him to "go all in with a pair of twos".

    Boggy continues to show he knows where to be defensively, he has an intuitive timing for when to shoot and pass, and has a poised demeanor uncommon to a guy playing his 2nd NBA game.

    Joerger (F)

    My bet is Joerger pushed for the signing of Carter and Z-Bong. So even if he knows they are bad he has to pretend otherwise. These guys are on the books for $19 million ($ 7 + $12) this year. That's a huge chunk of change that could have gotten us a real difference maker if spent prudently. Joerger has to try to justify his advocacy for their addition at least 30-40 games into the season. By the then we will be 8-32.

    At least Fox and Boggy are exciting. And Skal and Buddy showed life in the sparse minutes they were allocated, 15 minutes and 20 minutes.


    Boogie (A+)

    Boogie's performance did not surprise me. Expected it. He is better than ever at picking his spots when to attack and when to hold back. He's not that runaway freight train like he used to be when he would get the rebound and go. In spite of his 41/23/6 we (could) should have won. With better coaching and substitutions we would have. Buddy deserved to be out there in the 4th. Hill didn't. This is the second game in a row Z-Bo has doubled up in minutes over Skal. It is non-sense. The other thing that has to change is that even if Skal's minutes go up, Skal and Willie have to make more plays defensively if the team is going to be respectable. We know Z-Bong and Koufos are immobile and are going to offer paper thin resistance, but we have to be able to count on more sturdy resistance from our two young guys. Skal had an epic block and I want to see more of this.

    Our offense is NOT good enough to outscore teams 115-110. Right now we are a team capable of scoring 95 points on average and a team capable of holding teams to about 105-110 points. A 10-15 point differential to the negative will lose you around 60 to 65 games (or more). Right now the team looks NO more capable than that. At this point 2018 Lottery Lovers Rejoice. Top 5 here we come.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    LoungeLizard and kingsfan1984 like this.
  26. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Maybe. I didn't give Hield the benefit of the doubt because a very similar play occurred in a prior game in which Hield just wasn't looking for the ball and it went off his jersey. I think in this case Hield again was not looking for the ball. That's why I'm scoring that play against Hield.
  27. macadocious

    macadocious Well-Known Member

    Respectfully disagree. I was there too and Boogie got two standing ovations. One at intro and another during the first timeout when they did the tribute. They were both super loud from where I was sitting on the baseline. I didn't hear any booing during those ovations. There were a lot of boos when he was chewing us up, and that too was awesome. Fans weren't booing Boogie because they didn't like him, they were showing him that we are still Kings fans. BTW, that is how he took it.

    Webber always gets a standing ovation when he comes to Sac. Not sure why those were even being compared.
    sono, LoungeLizard, VF21 and 3 others like this.
  28. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    Some of the booing was fan frustration that Boogie was suddenly getting all star treatment from the refs, and that was some bullpoopoo.

    I never heard anything disrespectful toward Boogie from my seats near visitor bench. It was all good.
    pshn80 likes this.
  29. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    After pondering the back court situation, I really wouldn't mind seeing Fox and Mason play the point guard positions entirely. They can both push the pace and break down defenses better than Hill, imo. Obviously, they don't know a lot when it comes to the set-up offense, using picks, etc., but it's not like we're going to the playoffs or anything, so I'd go for it. Put Hill at the 2 guard position. In my opinion, he can guard 2-guards better than point guards and he can certainly hit some open outside shots. Bogs can play the 2 with Hill and maybe some 3 in a small-ball lineup.

    We don't have much to choose from at the 3. Jackson has had some good moments, and then some rookie moments. You've got to just roll with him because Carter is only good for a few minutes a game.

    Skal needs 30+ minutes at the 4. He's going to improve if you give him the minutes. I don't see anything in his game that indicates he's lazy or not coachable.

    Randolph is a small 5 at this point in his career. Against some non-scoring (especially non-3 pt shooting) centers he can be effective on D because of his low center of gravity, but there's no getting around his lack of shot blocking or lack of weak-side defense. WCS just annoys me. He has to get playing time, but I want to see more hustle from this guy on a consistent basis. We need a John Barry type on this team who is willing to get some floor burns. At this point I'm down with Papa getting 8 minutes a game and bring in a G League guy to give WCS some competition at the position. Not only don't we have one floor-burn hustler on this team, we don't have one banger either. I guess you could say Randolph is a banger, but he's not what I have in mind. I mean an athletic banger who can create a little havoc on the floor every now and again.
  30. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Agree with a duel. I think the rotations are just fine, Joerger is doing great.

    I thought the applause for Cuz was great bothwhen he was announced as the starter and then again after a time out
    when he was again introduced to the crowd. It pleased me. He certainly had a good game.

    We should have been able to put the game away but our young were a little too reluctant to take a shot in the last minutes of the game. They’ll learn.

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