EXACTLY.....team is not talented enough, and the management are incompetent. PapaG needs to work at Papa Johns. Poor, reaching, far-sighted pick. They could've drafted a guard @ 13 along with Richardson. However they were intent on trying McClemore a bit more.....experiment over. Richardson should be starting now - better to develop him and bring Temple off the bench to be more effective.
Goal of this season - 8 seed or development
- Thread starter Kingsfan23
- Start date
A 4-game swing doesn't mean enough to change judgement in an 82 game season imo. Getting into the playoffs is a big step as it stamps the season as more meaningful regardless of result. I would enjoy watching the Kings lose against the Warriors - not alot, but more than watching the Trailblazers etc lose vs Warriors. Kings need a couple fairly sizable win-streaks 3-5 right now to make it so which is a tall order for this bunch.
Disagree when your 13th pick is not even suiting up, let alone on the bench. Divac flubbed the top pick horribly this season. Cauley-Stein, jury is still out, and cannot be called a bad pick (yet) - may be reshaping into a solid pick. Needs more minutes now. I'd like to see Labissiere with minutes as well.
Yes, and "projects" are usually reserved for 2nd round picks, not 13th 1st round picks. I expect top-twenty 1st rounders to have enough to be more than a "project" and have enough talent to get a good look-over and playing time in their rookie season - not all of 2pts worth. If he was 13th in the 2nd round, fine.
While the papa pick doesn't look good so far, there aren't many rookies making positive contributions this year.
That doesn't mean we won't regret passing on guys for Papa. The point is, you're not drafting to see what they give you their rookie year.
I don't think people were clamoring for Pascal Siakam and Malcom Brogdon.
That doesn't mean we won't regret passing on guys for Papa. The point is, you're not drafting to see what they give you their rookie year.
I don't think people were clamoring for Pascal Siakam and Malcom Brogdon.
The difference is we passed on Chriss, who easily has the most star potential out of any of the 3 guys we got back. So no, while it's not fair to expect Papa to come in guns blazing, he's the "prize" of that trade haul being the 13th pick.
That's the real comparison people should be making: Papa-Skal and eventually Bogdan against Chriss in 3 years.
That's the real comparison people should be making: Papa-Skal and eventually Bogdan against Chriss in 3 years.
Firstly, quick disclaimer, I'm biased. Maybe it's a culture thing (I'm British, there is no drive for competitive balance in any of our major sports), but I've been brought up to think winning = good, losing = bad. I HATE losing.
Can someone who thinks differently explain the benefit of tanking this season, knowing that the 76ers have a similar record to us?
Can someone who thinks differently explain the benefit of tanking this season, knowing that the 76ers have a similar record to us?
I never advocated to fold and start over. I do however still believe, what I said as soon as our FA period was over: what you call scrappy vets are in fact deep benchers and left overs and besides Garret Temple and Lawson, who suprised me big time, not one addition did make much sense, if you don't fall for all the big talk about culture change, which until now has basically led to nothing in terms of wins and losses. I know the so called culture change is all about the future, but keep in mind, that the team will hopefully and most likely look entirely different next season, which also means a different gemeinschaft and therefore no consistent culture. So basically the culture change is just another figleaf for a potentially wasted season of Cousins career, because the FO failed again to put the right guys around him.
I agree, that most of the mistakes are a thing of the past, but that doesn't mean this years additions are much better. It's unfair towards Vlade to demand, that he can turn a franchise around in a short amount of time, that made so many mistakes over the years. But nonetheless that is his task and to fulfill it, he needs to be smarter than most GM's in the league or else we are stuck in mediocrity.
I know Barnes is a Joerger guy, but this doesn't mean you have to sign him and give him a 2 year 12.5 million dollar deal. We basically doubled his salary from the 2015/16 season.
We gave Afflalo, who was on his third team in two seasons, that rightfully made no public attempt to resign him but went after Lee asap in order to replace him, a 2 year 25 million deal.
Tolliver, who is basically a low key bench vet and spot up shooter makes 8 millions with us, while a guy like Bass is payed 1.5 millions or Terrence Jones makes 1 million.
You honestly believe those signings were the best we could get? You honestly think those signings are a hint, that our GM thinks outside the box and is smarter than most GM's?
Because I don't. What I think is, that Vlade went mainly after guys, who the coach or someone on his staff knew personally. He wanted save bets.
I personally don't think this is the right thing to do. In order to turn this thing around, we need a major cinderella story and we need a stable roster with growth potential and not short term vets, that are low key one and done guys.
If we lose our pick this year, where is this cinderella story going to come from? Bogdanovic? After all we seem to have resurrected Lawsons career, so maybe we can find another black sheep nobody wants to touch with a pole next offseason. At least that's my hope right now...Lance Stephenson anyone?
I agree, that most of the mistakes are a thing of the past, but that doesn't mean this years additions are much better. It's unfair towards Vlade to demand, that he can turn a franchise around in a short amount of time, that made so many mistakes over the years. But nonetheless that is his task and to fulfill it, he needs to be smarter than most GM's in the league or else we are stuck in mediocrity.
I know Barnes is a Joerger guy, but this doesn't mean you have to sign him and give him a 2 year 12.5 million dollar deal. We basically doubled his salary from the 2015/16 season.
We gave Afflalo, who was on his third team in two seasons, that rightfully made no public attempt to resign him but went after Lee asap in order to replace him, a 2 year 25 million deal.
Tolliver, who is basically a low key bench vet and spot up shooter makes 8 millions with us, while a guy like Bass is payed 1.5 millions or Terrence Jones makes 1 million.
You honestly believe those signings were the best we could get? You honestly think those signings are a hint, that our GM thinks outside the box and is smarter than most GM's?
Because I don't. What I think is, that Vlade went mainly after guys, who the coach or someone on his staff knew personally. He wanted save bets.
I personally don't think this is the right thing to do. In order to turn this thing around, we need a major cinderella story and we need a stable roster with growth potential and not short term vets, that are low key one and done guys.
If we lose our pick this year, where is this cinderella story going to come from? Bogdanovic? After all we seem to have resurrected Lawsons career, so maybe we can find another black sheep nobody wants to touch with a pole next offseason. At least that's my hope right now...Lance Stephenson anyone?
I'm not going to look up examples, but I'm going to say not true. Most of the players n this draft were some type of project. Some layers may be getting PT but they are still a project. Depends on what the goal is for the team. Depends on the players themselves. 2nd rounders are also projects I agree, but to blanket statement about picks 1-20 should be contributing isn't always true.
What you expect from top 20 picks is usually only true of the top 5 - 10 picks in most drafts. There was only 1 player in this past draft that didn't have major question marks. And even Simmons can't shoot at the moment (he is just talented enough every where else). That made almost everyone in the draft a project.
In what world is half a season (49 games to be axact) "time to let it go"??
SMH...
Don't be offended bro, but THIS HERE IS CULTURE.
Y-yesss we want the team to win... sort of...
but if it's not happening by January, than the heck with it - let's fold into our comfort zone of losing intentionally for a good cause...
SMH...
Don't be offended bro, but THIS HERE IS CULTURE.
Y-yesss we want the team to win... sort of...
but if it's not happening by January, than the heck with it - let's fold into our comfort zone of losing intentionally for a good cause...
And this is precisely what needs to change. If we are not in it by X, lets go tank. It is precisely why we became the laughing stock of the NBA. We finally seem to be building the foundation of breaking that habit and actually playing to win every game. Sure it might be counter productive in terms of a pick but it builds the expectations within the franchise that every time you cross that white line you are expected to fight from start to finish regardless of what the scoreboard says. Its the culture that allows you to get respect, its the culture that is proven to be a great aid in developing young players around the league. Developing young players does not necessarily mean playing them big minutes. Sure some can handle that but others get fed minutes here and there once they earn them and keep getting more of them once they prove they can handle them over a sustainable period of time.
The problem with the tanking approach is that it expects no accountability from anyone. Players know that they are not expected to win so the effort is not there more often than not. Go into every game with the expectation of going for the win. Lets fight for every second we are on the court and let the chips fall where they fall. We will win some, we will lose some. We might get a top 10 pick, or we might get a pick in the teens or we might not get one at all but what we will get is expectation that no matter who you are or where you are from but when you put on that Kings jersey, you are expected to give it your all every time you step on the court and for the most part this season, we have been seeing that. There might have been 5-6 games this season where we got blown out. Last year we had more than that so that is a progress.
Vivek made a massive mistake when he fired Malone thinking that we have the culture established so we will be fine. It takes a very short time to destroy the culture but a lot of time and hard work to establish a good one. I am not interested in going into the asset gathering phase. We screwed that up in the past and with out franchise player in his prime, we don't have time to go into a rebuild again.
Would I like to get a top 5 pick and this time hope to draft an All-Star PG to pair with Cousins? Sure but not at the expense of building a culture that sets certain expectations for everyone that pulls on that jersey. Only that way will you gain the respect of the rest of the NBA community and players themselves will respect the franchise more which might actually mean that some FA don't ignore the phone call when they see that Sacramento is calling.
The problem with the tanking approach is that it expects no accountability from anyone. Players know that they are not expected to win so the effort is not there more often than not. Go into every game with the expectation of going for the win. Lets fight for every second we are on the court and let the chips fall where they fall. We will win some, we will lose some. We might get a top 10 pick, or we might get a pick in the teens or we might not get one at all but what we will get is expectation that no matter who you are or where you are from but when you put on that Kings jersey, you are expected to give it your all every time you step on the court and for the most part this season, we have been seeing that. There might have been 5-6 games this season where we got blown out. Last year we had more than that so that is a progress.
Vivek made a massive mistake when he fired Malone thinking that we have the culture established so we will be fine. It takes a very short time to destroy the culture but a lot of time and hard work to establish a good one. I am not interested in going into the asset gathering phase. We screwed that up in the past and with out franchise player in his prime, we don't have time to go into a rebuild again.
Would I like to get a top 5 pick and this time hope to draft an All-Star PG to pair with Cousins? Sure but not at the expense of building a culture that sets certain expectations for everyone that pulls on that jersey. Only that way will you gain the respect of the rest of the NBA community and players themselves will respect the franchise more which might actually mean that some FA don't ignore the phone call when they see that Sacramento is calling.
Right.
"We added the vets this year and secured a reputable coach", as you wrote,
...AND this year our star has finally reached the true superstar level he has in him,
...AND this year our owner learned some sense and stopped meddling,
...AND this year we openned a new state of the art arena.
AND this month we unwillingly "shed" our 2nd option (Gay), who was the main ball stopper on the team,
...AND only this month our former young promising big (WCS) who seemed like a lost cause started looking like a BB player again, and our vet PG started looking like a vet PG,
...AND only this week we started inserting the most promising of our rookies into the most problematic position on the team (SG)...
Point is -
It's a new team in so many ways.
It competes differently.
(The only constant seems to be the fanbase and its bad experience and habits.... And that's not a good thing)
The past seven years you mention have NO effect whatsoever on what will happen this year.
As a new team, with a new coach (and with the NBA schedule that forces almost ZERO training in-season) we are just beginning to gell together.
You could even say that the first 100 days of the season (that's how long it was) have been just the intro, the learning phase.
Instead, you seem to say it's over
.
And you base that on experience from another team in another (though recent) era.
It's NOT time for drastic changes. Just for some more sweat, grit and hustle from the team, and more faith from the fans.
The goal is to win. Every game. One game at a time.
The season, and the franchise future, will take care of themselves (as by-products of winning)...
"We added the vets this year and secured a reputable coach", as you wrote,
...AND this year our star has finally reached the true superstar level he has in him,
...AND this year our owner learned some sense and stopped meddling,
...AND this year we openned a new state of the art arena.
AND this month we unwillingly "shed" our 2nd option (Gay), who was the main ball stopper on the team,
...AND only this month our former young promising big (WCS) who seemed like a lost cause started looking like a BB player again, and our vet PG started looking like a vet PG,
...AND only this week we started inserting the most promising of our rookies into the most problematic position on the team (SG)...
Point is -
It's a new team in so many ways.
It competes differently.
(The only constant seems to be the fanbase and its bad experience and habits.... And that's not a good thing)
The past seven years you mention have NO effect whatsoever on what will happen this year.
As a new team, with a new coach (and with the NBA schedule that forces almost ZERO training in-season) we are just beginning to gell together.
You could even say that the first 100 days of the season (that's how long it was) have been just the intro, the learning phase.
Instead, you seem to say it's over
.And you base that on experience from another team in another (though recent) era.
It's NOT time for drastic changes. Just for some more sweat, grit and hustle from the team, and more faith from the fans.
The goal is to win. Every game. One game at a time.
The season, and the franchise future, will take care of themselves (as by-products of winning)...
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No that's not what I wrote, I wrote 10-20 should be getting playing time and a look-over not assuming they're contributing right - you're reading into what I wrote. PapaG is NOT EVEN SUITING UP! I'm thinking PapaG might have an upside of Koufos level of play, and a downside of barely playing much in the league.