Garrett Temple

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by The_Jamal, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Hoping we see Temple in the starting lineup at some point. A lot of numbers showing he's made an impact for us on that end.

    Out of 95 eligible SG's:

    Temple:

    22nd in DRPM for SG's, 30th in RPM

    57% TS

    +2.8 defensive On/Off

    Afflalo:

    76th in DRPM for SG's, 77th in RPM

    52% TS

    -8.5 Defensive On/Off !!!!! (although, the big Mavs win, probably skews this a little more than it should be)

    Ben?

    80th in DRPM for SG's 86th in RPM

    51% TS

    +1.7 Defensive On/Off (again, big Mavs win skews this more than it should. 21 of his 253 minutes this season came in that game)

    Basically, Temple playing like the 3&D SG we've been begging for the last 5 years and he's not getting the minutes he should.
  2. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    So would a lot of Kings fans, but Joeger just said last post game interview that he likes Temple off the bench because of his versatility.

    I doubt we will see Temple starting anytime soon. :(
  3. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    Understandable, but unfortunate.

    I also am one of those that believe a DC/Temple starting pair, and then using Afflalo for his offense off the bench as a 6th man type, would be the best balancing move we could make.
    VF21 and ockingsfan like this.
  4. DesertFox

    DesertFox Active Member

    I would actually like to see how Temple does starting next to Afflalo. Then DC getting the same minutes, but as the 6th man off the bench. Temple can guard the other team's best from the start, as opposed to only at the end of games. Temple isn't much of an offensive player, but that opens up a little for Afflalo.

    Lawson is playing as well as he did last year, which was good enough to earn him a golden ticket to Sacramento. He's a 3rd pg.
  5. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    I tend to agree but I can also see where Joerger is coming from. Start Temple and there really is no defensive versatility on the perimeter coming off the bench.
  6. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Lawson, Ben, Barnes have all had opportunities to start with Collison/Gay/Cousins...I don't see why Temple wouldn't get a burn with them for a game or two as well. All in due time. This isn't a year meant for winning, remember? It's to establish a culture! :rolleyes:
  7. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Based on a meaningful playing time. Temple is shooting a career high in 2s (44%) and 3s (41%) to go along with great defense.

    Temple definitely should get all the playing time of A-Slow-O with A-Slow-o permanently benched or moved to back-up SF.
  8. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Wrong jersey Brandon
  9. Kingston Jamaica

    Kingston Jamaica Well-Known Member

    I was impressed by Garrett Temple's game in Washington and he has not disappointed me with the Kings. In my opinion the best signing last summer.
  10. Alon Rosen

    Alon Rosen New Member

    Temple is a monster defensively... Both him or Casspi are better overall players than Rudy Gay
    (and i respect Rudy but that is my personal opinion)...
    Temple is too good defensively to be left aside(shumpert kind)
    And Casspi got you last year positive +/- as a second unit rotational player(amazing).
    beside of much better stats than Gay per a shot. who cares how the shot been created. we need the ball in the basket.

    Rudy Gay best asset is that he can make his own kind of low percentage baskets? c'mon...
    Share the ball, until one is open to shoot free, or one if he is a good slaher get inside.

    Rudy's market value is higher than his real value... use it for both sides sake.

    Well, that's my point of view.
  11. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I want to see Temple in the Starting line up. I would also start Willie or Tolliver at PF
  12. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Has Temple been one of the better FA signings for the team in recent times?

    I know it's early but so far he is one guy that always plays hard no matter if we are up by 30 or down by 30 and he is one of those guys who can have a real impact on the game even without scoring. His defense has been excellent so far. We have him signed up for 3 years on what is a reasonable contract (and it will get even more reasonable with yet another bump in the salary cap). Easily been our best signing of the off-season IMHO.
  13. pdizo916

    pdizo916 Active Member

    I love Temple. When was the last time the Kings signed a FA that was as impactful as Temple



    edit: Darren Collison. We need more signings like Temple and Collison and less Landrys and Tolliver.
    SLAB likes this.
  14. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    More Afflalos too, right?
  15. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Someone said in preseason that we finally have an NBA calibre starting SG
  16. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    must've meant temple :D
    VF21 likes this.
  17. KingMilz

    KingMilz Well-Known Member

    While i didn't like the Tolliver signing cause of money he really has not been given much of a chance while KK has unlimited chances to impress. I think Tolliver can help us even when he's not making shots by being a ball mover and spacer and his D is not bad.
  18. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Kings fans are so used to bad FA signings and bad defense, that they tend to overvalue one of the few bright spots on this team. I love Garret Temple. Easily our best FA addition in years. But when compared with the rest of the league, he isn't anything special. Long, athletic defender - probably a bit more polished, than guys like Harkless (Yes I know bringing up the name time and time again..) or Troy Williams, but from the same mold.
    And where the Kings have only one of his kind, other teams have multiple comparable players to at least try to contain the constant barrage of 3pt shots and high screens.
    It has nothing to do with Garret in person, but to me he is mainly a reminder of how bad our roster management has been over the years.
    Since the 2012-2013 season teams attempt over 20.0 3pts field goals a game. This season we are talking about 26.5 3PA on average.
    That's 5 seasons to adapt to the 3 pt chucking style, that is taking over the league, with the obvious antidote to this kind of playstyle being long, athletic perimeter defenders.
    And the Kings best answer over 5 years is the signing of one single above average defender like Temple, while drafting 3 bigs in 2 consecutive drafts with the franchise cornerstone being a center and one of the best defenders being a lane clogger like KK. Not to mention our biggest FA addition was a SG known for his mid range and post game and known for playing questionable D over the last few years.
    Feels like everyone is approaching 2017, but the Kings continue to pretend, that it's 1995.
    KingMilz and funkykingston like this.
  19. Kingston Jamaica

    Kingston Jamaica Well-Known Member

    In my opinion players like Temple, Casspi and Collison are excellent value for the money. In other words, fantastic contracts for the team. If I could influence the decisions, I would keep them all and even pay a little more to Casspi and Collison. Players like Afflalo and Tolliver are too expensive for their overall impact. It is kind of strange that a player like Rudy Gay, who is really a talented basketball player and a great personality, makes about the same amount of money than Afflalo. The way I see things developing, Rudy, Afflalo and Collison will be gone by trade deadline or latest by the end of the season.
  20. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    And yet that hasn't really been true of late.

    Even ignoring Vivek's scattered attempt to get Iggy a few years ago, Vlade:

    -- cleared cap room and dumped stubby and sluggish defenders to try to sign Wes Matthews
    -- was after Courtney Lee this summer
    -- drafted Malachi Richardson
    -- signed Garret Temple and Matt Barnes
    -- for that matter drafted Willie Cauley-Stein, who's best trait was supposed to be his ability to switch and show on perimeter players and guard the pick and roll.
    -- we were making inquiries about Nick Calathes this summer
    -- wanted to draft Kris Dunn but could not make the deal

    We may have swung and missed on most of it, but we've actually spent a considerable bit of effort in the last few years trying to regain length and defense in the backcourt.
    VF21, Čarolija, Ron and 3 others like this.
  21. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    I know you want to keep up your optimism Brick or want to continue to support Vlade or whatever, but after a decade of losing nobody actually cares anymore, if we tried. What matters are results and so far it looks like we missed with the WCS pick (with the selection of another 7footer without actual basketball skills being questionable from the beginning, when most teams simply play 4 wings or at least smaller PF's with 3pt range for most of the minutes), we missed on every FA outside of Garret Temple and Malachi is playing in Reno.
    The King's GM chair is one of the tougher positions to be in for a basketball lifer, but still - you don't win GM of the year for trying to do the right things.
    SVG turned Detroit around in a short period of time. The Blazers managed to rebuild on the fly, after most of their core pieces left. THe Grizzlies dig out guys able to contribute, even though most of their core pieces are battling injuries. And here we both are, talking about "Kings tried to do the right thing".
    Notice I'm not one the "fire Vlade"-train, because I think this would alienate Joerger, who was the best addition this franchise made this offseason, but I see no reason to paint things in the bright Kings purple of "we at least tried".
    KingMilz and mac like this.
  22. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Many of us still do care:) We are here posting our opinions.
    WCS needs to start next to Boogie and develop chemistry.
    Yes Temple is the Best Kings FA signing but Barnes has value and I believe Tolliver can contribute. Afflalo looks like a 7th or 8th man best used posting up the other teams bench guards.
    Some teams do play small but I still see two Bigs pretty often in starting line ups.
    SVG has nailed it. Getting Tobias Harris and Reggie Jackson really set the Pistons up.
    The Jury is still out on the Blazers and Grizz, but we will see soon:)
    As for Vlade and crew (Peja, Ken and Mike) they get two more full seasons in my book. These things take time.
    Joerger is in this thing for the long haul. Fellow Fans this is not going to be fixed in a few months. These things take time.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
    VF21 and km23 like this.
  23. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    Just need to keep at it. The point is we have to try and keep trying which is a far cry to the past 10 years where our FO didn't even see the point or werent on the same page.

    Things are harder for us yes because we are the Kings but where there is concentrated effort there will be results and there is no argument we aren't going about things with the right approach in mind.

    We got afflalo and tolliver because we missed out in FA on anderson, matthews and they we're an absolute need and will be gone in 6 months. Temple actually fills a need and was a great addition.

    Vlade is doing a good job. We'll judge the picks soon but I think with brogdan coming over and temple our SG needs arent far off being set.
    VF21 likes this.
  24. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Of course we have to try. No doubt about that and that wasn't the point I was trying to make. This board is divided between guys thinking or convincing themselves, that we are on the right track and posters, who don't believe so.
    But you can't give credit to a GM of an NBA team for trying. That's just the harsh reality. I don't care if it's Vlade, a beloved Kings player, or someone like PDA. In the end only results matter -
    sympathy doesn't matter, playstyle doesn't matter, wether the players are young guns or veterans or role models or thugs doesn't matter. All that matters is the amount of wins.

    And I respectfully disagree completely with your assessement of the Kings body of work.

    I don't believe in the common narrative, that things are harder, because we are the Kings (outside of signing top tier FA's). If you want a reasoning for that, just take a look at this years Grizzlies. The issue is not, that it's hard for the Kings. The issue is, that we seem to be not competent enough to think outside the box and get players, who will contribute, who fit our vision of the team and our system, but aren't a hot commodity on the FA market. And the issue is, that we can't sell our vision to players, who are actually a hot commodity.
    I don't believe we do things with the right approach in mind.
    Afflalo and Tolliver weren't needed. The signing of Matt Barnes was highly questionable, even though I believe this one is on Joerger and it's understandable from a culture and leadership point of view. Ryan Anderson would have been a bad addition. The draft picks of the recent years, didn't fit the need of this team (outside of Malachi and Bogdan, who isn't signed yet). In the end I'm sorry to say, that Vlade isn't doing a good job from my point of view.

    I don't want to spoil anyones optimism. I don't want to drag anyone down. I just view things differentely, than some of you.
  25. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    I disagree with most things you said.
    But of course Vlade and his crew should get more time. The one thing this franchise desperately needs is stability. And because there is no relegation system, we can afford to let Vlade learn from his mistakes.
    I just hope he changes his approach and does the right thing (or what is the right thing in my mind ;) of course).
    A few great and timely additions can change the course of an entire franchise. So I'm eager to know, what Vlade does next.
    There is no reason, we can't be the next Detroit Pistons and at least become respectable once again.
  26. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Well if you like what the Pistons have done then you should like Vlade hiring Ken Catanella. At the very least KC had a front row seat when trades were made for Jackson and Harris by Detroit. My thinking is that as Assistant GM for the Pistons he played a role in those deals.

    I expect Cam Payne to be in a Kings uniform soon if he can pass a physical.
  27. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    We don't know, which role he played. I certainly hope, that our FO team rights the ship and I will give credit to all of them, once they did it.
  28. Bricklayer

    Bricklayer Don't Make Me Use The Bat Staff Member Contributor

    Then frankly everybody is being an idiot.

    There is a vast gulf between this situation:

    -- dude doesn't get it and therefore will never even try to address it

    and this one

    -- dude gets it and has repeatedly tried to address it


    There is no hope in situation 1.

    There is hope in situation 2.

    Because in situation 2 the guy will keep on trying, and sooner or later there will be a breakthrough.
  29. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    I agree with most of this, but if I had to give him a letter grade so far it wouldn't be any higher than C. Points for effort, but the results are mixed. And he missed on a lot of better options if his goal was to improve the defense.

    -- He went after Kosta Koufos with a $33 million deal in 2015 while guys like Kyle O'Quinn and Bismack Biyombo signed for basically nothing and have been far more effective.
    -- He swung and missed by picking Cauley-Stein as a defensive specialist when better (and younger) defenders (Myles Turner, Stanley Johnson) were available.
    -- The Garrett Temple deal was a good one but the success of that deal was mitigated when he immediately signed Arron Afflalo to play the same position -- ensuring that he would split minutes with an inferior defender. (Temple has played 563 minutes so far this season and Afflalo has played 539 minutes)
    -- Wesley Matthews would have been a mistake. His scoring has bounced back this year but not his fg% (averaged ~44% in Portland, 39% in Dallas) and his defense will likely never recover.
    -- Belinelli was a shooter we needed (who ultimately couldn't shoot here for some reason...) but his defense has always been supbar to terrible.
    -- Courtney Lee is not a good defender. I don't know where that perception is coming from.
    -- Giving up an unprotected pick, 2 years of swap rights, and a lottery pick with 3 years on his rookie deal for a salary dump is a massive overpay in any circumstance. I liked the concept, but not the final deal.

    Some of this is understandable -- the SG position is a black hole in general and we need somebody to play there. It's hard for me to give Vlade a pass on the Koufos signing and the Cauley-Stein pick though when there were clearly better options available who would have made us a much better team this year. What he does with Rudy Gay will be telling. If he's able to snag a young player or a draft pick that develops into a regular part of the rotation that would be a big confidence booster for me. I don't think he's been nearly as bad as his detractors suggest but he hasn't accomplished anything of note either. If the team is marginally better now than it was when he took over, it's only because DeMarcus has continued to get better.
  30. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Whether you believe the best course for the Kings is to build around Cousins or trade him and go into full rebuild mode (I'm firmly in that camp) or try to improve in some third or fourth manner it DOES matter if Vlade gets it or not.

    The Kings have sucked for a long time. The only way to not keep sucking is to have someone at the helm that can fix things.

    So while I haven't always agreed with Vlade's moves, I've understood them and the thinking behind them. Which is a big contrast with PDA where honestly I never knew what he was even trying to do.

    Big difference. And at least a little hope moving forward.

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