Forget the Drama -- Going Forward What Do We Need To Make A Run?

Predict our record by the end of November

  • 12-7

    Votes: 4 7.8%
  • 10-9 to 11-8

    Votes: 3 5.9%
  • 8-11 to 9-10

    Votes: 30 58.8%
  • 6-13 to 7-12

    Votes: 12 23.5%
  • 4-15 to 5-14

    Votes: 2 3.9%
  • 2-17 to 3-16

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Alright, so drama drama, yeah, yeah, don't care.

In the end what we do on the court will sink us or elevate us. Will the drama determine what we do on court? Possibly. But in the end it does not matter in and of itself. DeMarcus Cousins could punch a hole in a coach's chest, pull out his still beating heart, and eat it...and if we ran off the next dozen games in a row, we're still going to the playoffs (not that I am suggesting this as an inspirational tactic). So this thread ain't about that stuff. This thread is about basketball.

Our situation:
2-7 record
33 Hm games remaining
39 Rd games remaining
1 neutral site game (Mexico City)

-- we burned through a lot of our home games in that wasted streak. On the other hand we burned through a lot of our games against the West contenders too.

Our likely competitors for #6-#8 (I am opening Memphis's slot up at this point, because they look decrepit);
Utah 4-4
Minnesota 4-4
Denver 4-4
Phoenix 4-4
Dallas 4-4
Portland 4-5
Memphis 3-6

Yes that's right, half the vaunted West is 4-4. In fact the mediocrity fest extends up to the supposed powers. Beyond the Warriors and Spurs, OKC is 5-3, the Clippers are 5-4, and Houston is 4-4. Nobody is running away.

Playoff seedings as of today:
#1 Warriors: 10-0
#2 Spurs 6-2
#3 Thunder 5-3
#4 Clippers 5-4
#5-#10 all 4-4

Kings: 2.5 GB, not just of the playoffs, but of the #5 seed. So let's put away the tissues about the 1-7 start. nobody has run away and hidden. Half the playoff bracket is suddenly available, and we've got 73 games to make up 2 1/2 games.

Upcoming games:
11/13 BKN (1-7)
11/15 TOR (6-3)
-- need these two, Toronto will present a challenge roughly at level of Detroit, put good defenders across from Boogie and Rudy, and try to win it against our weak backcourt, win and we're 4-7
11/18 @ATL (8-2)
11/19 @MIA (6-3)
11/21 @ORL (4-5)
11/22 @CHA (4-4)
11/23 @MIL (4-5)
-- a toughish East swing, still, a good team aims for 3-2 there to continue momentum, and we need to start acting the good team if we're going to be one. Must go at least 2-3 to keep the hole from deepining. Could be 7-9 or 6-10 after the trip at those numbers.
11/27 MIN (4-4)
11/28 @GSW (10-0)
11/30 DAL (4-4)
-- you concede the Warriors loss, but need to find a way to beat two of our main playoff comeptitors on our home floor. Boogie has to explain the pecking order to KAT, and Rondo prove something to DAL. If we do it right, go 2-1, and maybe we're 8-11 at the end of the month.

Future Speculation
December -- looking beyond that, if we were 8-11 by the end of November, a tough December schedule looks to me like we'd do well to be 14-16 by the end of December, still never having been .500 since after the Lakers game.
January -- ironically the schedule suggests our first shot at .500 could come against the Lakers on Jan 7, at which point we'd be 17-17. The next night we'd play the Warriors, probably go back to 17-18, then have enough winnable games from that point on to maybe finish the month 23-22 or some such.

That far out that's of course pure speculation -- the landscape could have changed, good teams gotten going, bad teams fallen back, injuries, trades, etc. Still, from where we sit now, it looks to be a 6 week slog back up to respectability, and then a dogfight from there on out to hold it together. I could see Boogie begin to go epic though once he finally gets the scent of playoffs in his nostrils. If that happens, we might make a real run.
 
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#2
Alright, so drama drama, yeah, yeah, don't care.

In the end what we do on the court will sink us or elevate us. Will the drama determine what we do on court? Possibly. But in the end it does not matter in and of itself. DeMarcus Cousins could punch a hole in a coach's chest, pull out his still beating heart, and eat it...and if we ran off the next dozen games in a row, we're still going to the playoffs (not that I am suggesting this as an inspirational tactic). So this thread ain't about that stuff. This thread is about basketball.

Our situation:
2-7 record
33 Hm games remaining
39 Rd games remaining
1 neutral site game (Mexico City)

-- we burned through a lot of our home games in that wasted streak. On the other hand we burned through a lot of our games against the West contenders too.

Our likely competitors for #6-#8 (I am opening Memphis's slot up at this point, because they look decrepit);
Utah 4-4
Minnesota 4-4
Denver 4-4
Phoenix 4-4
Dallas 4-4
Portland 4-5
Memphis 3-6

Yes that's right, half the vaunted West is 4-4. In fact the mediocrity fest extends up to the supposed powera. Beyond the Warriors and Spurs, OKC is 5-3, the Clippers are 5-4, and Houston is 4-4. Nobody is running away.
Playoff seedings as of today:
#1 Warriors: 10-0
#2 Spurs 6-2
#3 Thunder 5-3
#4 Clippers 5-4
#5-#10 all 4-4

Kings: 2.5 GB, not just of the playoffs, but of the #5 seed. So let's put away the tissues about the 1-7 start. nobody has run away and hidden. Half the playoff bracket is suddenly available, and we've got 74 games to make up 2 1/2 games.

Upcoming games:
11/13 BKN (1-7)
11/15 TOR (6-3)
-- need these two, Toronto will present a challenge roughly at level of Detroit, put good defenders across from Boogie and Rudy, and try to win it against our weak backcourt, win and we're 4-7
11/18 @ATL (8-2)
11/19 @MIA (6-3)
11/21 @ORL (4-5)
11/22 @CHA (4-4)
11/23 @MIL (4-5)
-- a toughish East swing, still, a good team aims for 3-2 there to continue momentum, and we need to start acting the good team if we're going to be one. Must go at least 2-3 to keep the hole from deepining. Could be 7-9 or 6-10 after the trip at those numbers.
11/27 MIN (4-4)
11/28 @GSW (10-0)
11/30 DAL (4-4)
-- you concede the Warriors loss, but need to find a way to beat two of our main playoff comeptitors on our home floor. Boogie has to explain the pecking order to KAT, and Rondo prove something to DAL. If we do it right, go 2-1, and maybe we're 8-11 at the end of the month.

Future Speculation
December -- looking beyond that, if we were 8-11 by the end of November, a tough December schedule looks to me like we'd do well to be 14-16 by the end of December, still never having been .500 since after the Lakers game.
January -- ironically the schedule suggests our first shot at .500 could come against the Lakers on Jan 7, at which point we'd be 17-17. The next night we'd play the Warriors, probably go back to 17-18, then have enough winnable games from that point on to maybe finish the month 23-22 or some such.

That far out that's of course pure speculation -- the landscape could have changed, good teams gotten going, bad teams fallen back, injuries, trades, etc. Still, from where we sit now, it looks to be a 6 week slog back up to respectability, and then a dogfight from there on out to hold it together. I could see Boogie begin to go epic though once he finally gets the scent of playoffs in his nostrils. If that happens, we might make a real run.
the sweat spread on the hardwood along the years compel me to a "always-aim-to-victory" attitude... so I have faith in the guys and I vote 12-7! :)
 
#3
Ben to turn into Bradely Beal or Wes Mathews pre injury. Rondo to develop at 38% 3 point shot and become a 75% FT shooter.
 
#6
That was'nt the question though, it was what do we need?
Question wasn't "to make a run at 70 wins" though, which is what we'd be looking at if your numbers bore out. :)

On-topic, in order for us to make a run at the playoffs, I actually don't think we need THAT much: 1) consistent focus on defense; 2) consistent rotations; 3) a bit of luck with health. We're really, really not that far off the mark, thanks to Vlade.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#7
I predicted a few days ago we could be 8-11 at the end of the month and when everyone wakes up on Christmas morning, we'd be.500. That's of course based on the talent we have, health and gearing a system to our strengths.

-Concentrate on defense first. More game planning, more attention to detail, make it the focus. Has to come from the coaching staff.
-Slow down the pace! Stop looking for and jacking up the first shot early in the clock, get in have court sets, pressure the D inside off Rudy/Cuz post ups and get our 3 looks off them and/or Rondo penetration
-Get Rondo in more P&Rs. Create more gaps for him to attack.
-Bring back the Rudy/Cuz two man game. That's big. It's successful. Put those two in side P&Rs and clear out a side. Rudy needs more touches in the flow to get a rhythm.
-Lean on WCS more. Karl said yesterday he's thought about putting WCS back in to close out games and that'll be his next step. Well do it.

But I also don't think the Karl drama is going anywhere. Maybe it can be covered up for a little while. Get some confidence and get rolling.
 
#8
Defensive focus. The team showed what they could do against Golden State. They need to bring that playoff intensity defense against the scrubby teams and not just the contenders.

Offensively, a healthy Rudy and Cousins gets us 2/3 of the way to a win. Rondo another 1/6 of the way there. Role players muscling for offensive boards and setting hard screens for their teammates can do the rest.
 
#9
Good health, continue emphasis on defense, continue offensively as is, and play had and with confidence.

Didn't pick a number in poll. If we follow the theme of my first paragraph all will be well.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#10
This is about building on your strengths. The big three are awesome together. No one can stop DMC down low and no one can get him the ball down there like Rondo does. We seem to have found a pace that works for us so a nice little run here is very doable if the guys play offense like we did against Detroit and work on perimeter D. We still need to fill that hole at the 2 guard and it would be nice if one two or all three of our guys would step up... the job is there begging some one to be a hero.
 
#11
I predicted a few days ago we could be 8-11 at the end of the month and when everyone wakes up on Christmas morning, we'd be.500. That's of course based on the talent we have, health and gearing a system to our strengths.

-Concentrate on defense first. More game planning, more attention to detail, make it the focus. Has to come from the coaching staff.
-Slow down the pace! Stop looking for and jacking up the first shot early in the clock, get in have court sets, pressure the D inside off Rudy/Cuz post ups and get our 3 looks off them and/or Rondo penetration
-Get Rondo in more P&Rs. Create more gaps for him to attack.
-Bring back the Rudy/Cuz two man game. That's big. It's successful. Put those two in side P&Rs and clear out a side. Rudy needs more touches in the flow to get a rhythm.
-Lean on WCS more. Karl said yesterday he's thought about putting WCS back in to close out games and that'll be his next step. Well do it.

But I also don't think the Karl drama is going anywhere. Maybe it can be covered up for a little while. Get some confidence and get rolling.

I really liked DMC and Rudy in the P&R, was really effective last game vs Detrot. That is assuming Cousins is hitting his 3 ball lol But a P&R with those two is deadly, gives each their own space to operate and finish.
 
#12
I'm just not seeing how this team can win consistently.

It took a triple double from Rondo and fantastic games from Cousins and Gay to prevent us from collapsing in the 4th quarter to a Detroit team in the midst of a long road trip.

Seth Curry morphing into his brother is probably going to be what it takes to dig this team out of the hole they put themselves in.
 
#13
1. Health
2. play tough, hardnosed defense. Give up nothing easy inside and pressure the opposing ballhandler.
3. use Cuz's versatility to our advantage. Give the opposing defense a lot of different looks. The more versatile you are, the more problems you create for the opposing coach gameplanning to stop our best player.
4. continue to run Marco off screens.
5. when off the ball, use Rondo to set screens and cut and don't let him stand in the corner
6. use every opportunity to get easy baskets early in the clock. Slow down to a halfcourt game, when no high percentage look is available.
7. use Rudy+Cuz two man game, when DC is on the floor to give additional floor spacing
8. try to find a low key role player, that is a dead eye shooter without giving up one of our core guys
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#14
I'm just not seeing how this team can win consistently.

It took a triple double from Rondo and fantastic games from Cousins and Gay to prevent us from collapsing in the 4th quarter to a Detroit team in the midst of a long road trip.

Seth Curry morphing into his brother is probably going to be what it takes to dig this team out of the hole they put themselves in.
The end of the fourth looked a lot like it did against the Spurs to me. Tired guys who logged too many minuets or coming off injures fending off good offensive teams. The final scores were as much about who we were playing as they were about how we played in that last 4 min. That being said bring in Curry for a little spell and sit DMC a little longer and these lesser teams should not be as much to handle in the final four min.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#16
I'm just not seeing how this team can win consistently.

It took a triple double from Rondo and fantastic games from Cousins and Gay to prevent us from collapsing in the 4th quarter to a Detroit team in the midst of a long road trip.
We had a big lead, and they caught up because we had to overplay our key guys, particularly our point guard. It's not like we had to scratch and claw for forty-eight minutes to barely beat them.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
I'm just not seeing how this team can win consistently.

It took a triple double from Rondo and fantastic games from Cousins and Gay to prevent us from collapsing in the 4th quarter to a Detroit team in the midst of a long road trip.

Seth Curry morphing into his brother is probably going to be what it takes to dig this team out of the hole they put themselves in.
Finding a way not to lose was an important lesson, regardless of how it was done. I'm choosing to be optimistic about what can come from it.

:)
 
#19
I predicted a few days ago we could be 8-11 at the end of the month and when everyone wakes up on Christmas morning, we'd be.500. That's of course based on the talent we have, health and gearing a system to our strengths.

-Concentrate on defense first. More game planning, more attention to detail, make it the focus. Has to come from the coaching staff.
-Slow down the pace! Stop looking for and jacking up the first shot early in the clock, get in have court sets, pressure the D inside off Rudy/Cuz post ups and get our 3 looks off them and/or Rondo penetration
-Get Rondo in more P&Rs. Create more gaps for him to attack.
-Bring back the Rudy/Cuz two man game. That's big. It's successful. Put those two in side P&Rs and clear out a side. Rudy needs more touches in the flow to get a rhythm.
-Lean on WCS more. Karl said yesterday he's thought about putting WCS back in to close out games and that'll be his next step. Well do it.

But I also don't think the Karl drama is going anywhere. Maybe it can be covered up for a little while. Get some confidence and get rolling.
Gospel!
 
#20
Finding a way not to lose was an important lesson, regardless of how it was done. I'm choosing to be optimistic about what can come from it.

:)
It's coming along... let the guys play together some more games, regardless of the final score... if anything was showing up during the Pistons' game, it was the guys on the floor playing, moving, helping each other and fighting like a unit..
Were they late in some defensive rotations? True. But they never stopped playing.
Were they turning some balls over ? Probably. But they kept chasing the ball and always maintained a safe margin, whenever the opponents seemed to to strike back.
RR was focused on keeping every player involved, Rudy was solid and Boogie... well.. what was that thread "moving on.. playing better without DMC"??? Are you out there serious???
Rajon and DMC are made to play together... and the show has just begun.
 
#21
I figured my comment would get "quotes" and not "likes" up in my alert box lol.

For me a lot of it stems from lineups. Rondo didn't have to play 48 against the Pistons. There were moments where we were up by almost 20 when Karl could have spelled Rondo for a bit. We have Belinelli, Gay and Cousins who can all have the offense ran through them.

I just haven't been a big fan of Karl's rotations. Cousins and Cauley Stein has worked very well. Cousins and Koufos has not. Even Karl has stated that Cousins and Koufos doesn't work that well and it's why he starts WCS. Despite all of that, Karl pulls WCS and almost never puts him back in so we're stuck watching Cousins and Koufos not be effective out there together. Koufos is a fantastic backup C but he gets exposed when you play him long minutes along with the starters. I get wanting a veteran out there but stats say that the Kings are best with WCS out on the floor so he shouldn't be cutting his minutes short unless there's a very good reason we don't know about.

Throw in the obvious Cousins out on the 3pt line deal and I just don't see the wins coming unless some big changes are made. Yeah he can go 4/5 every once in a while, but in between then it's bricks and turnover after turnover. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see us winding up with 8-9 wins after this stretch.
 
#22
I predicted a few days ago we could be 8-11 at the end of the month and when everyone wakes up on Christmas morning, we'd be.500. That's of course based on the talent we have, health and gearing a system to our strengths.

-Concentrate on defense first. More game planning, more attention to detail, make it the focus. Has to come from the coaching staff.
-Slow down the pace! Stop looking for and jacking up the first shot early in the clock, get in have court sets, pressure the D inside off Rudy/Cuz post ups and get our 3 looks off them and/or Rondo penetration
-Get Rondo in more P&Rs. Create more gaps for him to attack.
-Bring back the Rudy/Cuz two man game. That's big. It's successful. Put those two in side P&Rs and clear out a side. Rudy needs more touches in the flow to get a rhythm.
-Lean on WCS more. Karl said yesterday he's thought about putting WCS back in to close out games and that'll be his next step. Well do it.

But I also don't think the Karl drama is going anywhere. Maybe it can be covered up for a little while. Get some confidence and get rolling.
good luck on the pace. napear said they have a 16 second shot clock in practice. lmfao. so gimmicky just like vivek to push for crap like that.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#23
For me the primary thing that will turn this thing around is the team understanding their strengths and playing to them with defense included of course.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#24
I figured my comment would get "quotes" and not "likes" up in my alert box lol.

For me a lot of it stems from lineups. Rondo didn't have to play 48 against the Pistons. There were moments where we were up by almost 20 when Karl could have spelled Rondo for a bit. We have Belinelli, Gay and Cousins who can all have the offense ran through them.

I just haven't been a big fan of Karl's rotations. Cousins and Cauley Stein has worked very well. Cousins and Koufos has not. Even Karl has stated that Cousins and Koufos doesn't work that well and it's why he starts WCS. Despite all of that, Karl pulls WCS and almost never puts him back in so we're stuck watching Cousins and Koufos not be effective out there together. Koufos is a fantastic backup C but he gets exposed when you play him long minutes along with the starters. I get wanting a veteran out there but stats say that the Kings are best with WCS out on the floor so he shouldn't be cutting his minutes short unless there's a very good reason we don't know about.

Throw in the obvious Cousins out on the 3pt line deal and I just don't see the wins coming unless some big changes are made. Yeah he can go 4/5 every once in a while, but in between then it's bricks and turnover after turnover. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see us winding up with 8-9 wins after this stretch.
Rondo didn't WANT a breather. He was in a groove and did not want to come off the floor. What was Karl supposed to do? Use the old vaudeville hook?
 
#25
Rondo didn't WANT a breather. He was in a groove and did not want to come off the floor. What was Karl supposed to do? Use the old vaudeville hook?
Did he also not want a breather against the spurs when he fell apart in the 4th? At some point, you have to realize there are times when you give someone a quick break, even with limited options.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#26
Did he also not want a breather against the spurs when he fell apart in the 4th? At some point, you have to realize there are times when you give someone a quick break, even with limited options.
I'm not going to belabor the point. You think Karl should have given him a break. I don't think it's a problem and, in fact, think it's kind of silly to keep worrying about it.
 
#27
What we need is for DMC to not try to be Dirk and utilize his biggest advantage: stay down low, get opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get teams in the penalty.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#28
What we need is for DMC to not try to be Dirk and utilize his biggest advantage: stay down low, get opposing bigs in foul trouble, and get teams in the penalty.
It should be noted here that wherever Cuz is starting on the floor, he's leading the league in FTAs/per minute by a mile over Harden (12.9/36 before this game, Harden #2 at 10.7/36). He's just getting a running start at the paint rather than starting there.
 
#30
It should be noted here that wherever Cuz is starting on the floor, he's leading the league in FTAs/per minute by a mile over Harden (12.9/36 before this game, Harden #2 at 10.7/36). He's just getting a running start at the paint rather than starting there.
Not to mention tonight he got his game going by hitting his outside shots. Then started attacking the paint again.