Following 2018 draftees

Discussion in 'Prospects' started by Ozymandias, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Yep, me too. Ayton is my favorite out of the "big 5" to start the year and it's starting to shape up for the Kings where the weakest "potential" spots on the roster are the 4 and the 5.

    I love that Ayton bulked up. Watched the UMBC game and thought "holy poopoo, dude has been putting in work" and already seeing results. Thing is, as Baja said, his frame can support even more weight. Just a grown ass man at 18 years old.

    Obviously, he's gonna have a massive size advantage over pretty much everyone in college, but I really liked the "way" he was controlling the glass. Reminded me a lot of Boogie where he just dominated the space in front of him to where basically only he could only get it. Big difference though is Ayton can actually get up for the boards too, rather than be ground-bound like Boogie. Will be really interested to see if that continues moving forward because if it does, he'll be contending for the top rebounder spot in the NBA.

    He's going to be an awesome shooter moving forward, which is absolutely nuts for a 7'1, 260 pound dude who can jump out of the gym. I don't really care what his jump shot %'s are this year, it's going to be good as he gets more reps. Has a great high release that's hard to contest and gets it out of his hand quickly. Just perfect for today's NBA.

    And as you mentioned he's a physical beast in the post, but has great touch too and showed a couple really nice post moves. He showed a great understanding of how to use his size to his advantage in the UMBC game. Didn't see much playmaking from him, but Arizona didn't really need it this game.
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  2. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Sorry late to respond but had to go in for surgery on Monday. Back home now and watching games again. As for Diallo, I have no idea how good of a shooter he'll eventually be, but for now, it appears he's worked on his shot during his year off, because his form has improved, and so has his shot. Whether he'll be able to sustain that or not is anyone's guess. The last thing we should be doing is talking in absolutes. No one, and I mean no one knows how good some of these guys can be. We can guess, and in some cases, it's a fairly safe bet. But in the case of a player like Diallo, who knows. Now by march we may have a much better idea of what the future holds for him. Same for Knox. Just because Knox is struggling a bit and Bagley is killing it, doesn't guarantee that Bagley will be the superior player.

    These guys have a year of college and a couple years of NBA play before we will know how good they'll be. And in some cases, especially PG's, it can take up to 4 or 5 years in the NBA before it all clicks. So to pass judgement on any player this early is just plain ridiculous. I think it's fine to look at the pluses and minuses of players, and at some point, around draft time, you have to weigh all those and make a decision. But right now, way too early. In Diallo's case, although he's improved his overall form, if you watch his shot in slow motion, you'll notice that he releases the ball on the way up instead of at the top. It's a minor thing, but needs to be improved. He does have a fairly high release point, and a fairly quick release. He's a terrific athlete, and right now, the last of my worries about him is whether he can play off the ball or not.
  3. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Hope you have a great recovery Baja! The Duke-MSU game might be a good treat for you. Jarren Jackson was a big surprise to me with his 3pt shooting. Admittedly, I haven't watched any of him in HS, but he was really fun to watch. On the other side, March came early for Allen. Duval looked great with his passing and defense. It's a shame he doesn't have a jumpshot right now. If he can't add a jumper, he seems destined to be a backup PG which would be good value for a later 1st round pick. Carter Jr is raw, and like Jackson, it'll take me a few more games before I can access him better. He's someone who looks like he would benefit a lot from NBA spacing. Don't see him as a pick for the Kings though(don't think he has the offensive arsenal to be a potential #1 scorer). Bridges was disappointing. Don't see much improvement in his game, but it was just 1 rough game for him. Didn't do anything except hit 3s.

    It's too early to dislike any prospects, but the Kentucky guys are disappointing me this year. Luckily for fans, I think Kentucky might actually have 3-4 contributing sophomores next year. Really early in the college season, but I wouldn't look at any Kentucky guys for the Kings this year. Ayton, Doncic, Porter Jr, and Bagley seem to be locked in somewhere at the top 5.
  4. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yep, I'm going to be up late trying to catch up. I have about 7 games recorded including the Duke game. Should be fun. I think MSU is going to surprise some people this year. I have them in my final four, so that's probably the kiss of death, but I like their team. Duke is the team to beat until they prove otherwise. Just too much talent. Kentucky didn't have one of their best recruiting years, at least in grabbing top ten recruits. They only have one in the top ten (Knox) and he came in at number ten. They do have a lot of athleticism and raw talent, with the emphasis on raw. Your right about next year. If some of these guys decide to stay for another year, Kentucky could be a monster next year. A lot of IF's there. I like Duval a lot, and you nailed it with the jumpshot. He's a very talented PG. The nice thing for him is that he's surrounded by people that can score.
  5. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Ayton is getting all the press right now, and rightly so. Through three games he's playing like the 1st pick in the draft. But one of his teammates, who is off to a terrific start is being overlooked a bit. Allonzo Trier, is averaging 31.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, and 3 apg. The 6'5" guard is shooting 64.5% overall, and 50.0% from the three. Of course there is no way he can continue to put up those numbers, or at least those averages, but he certainly making people take notice. Arizona is going to be tough to beat in the Pac 12. Bagley came back down to earth in his last game. Some yearly tournaments coming up and setting the stage for conference play.
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  6. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    Would love to see 2 games og Ayton versus Bamba to have on taoe if king are in position to pick Ayton. Ayton is a man amoungst boys so it is very easy for him to be calm and patient, loose and confident while he plays. Nobody comes close to being able to bother him. As Baja pointed out, 1 concern is how he does bobble the ball at times. Would live to see how he handles himself against Bamba.
  7. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Of course Texas and Arizona aren't in the same conference, so it's not likely that they'll meet unless it's in March. I don't know what their out of conference schedule looks like, but I guess its possible that they might have a game scheduled. I'll have to look it up...

    Edit: Went and looked at Texas schedule and Arizona isn't on it. So the only chance they'll meet is during the tournament. I suspect that both teams will make the tournament, so its a matter of seeding, and winning. We'll keep our fingers crossed.
  8. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    True would like to see it too. However I have Jarren Jackson way ahead of Bamba he will be an all star caliber player perfect next to wcs.

    -Great size: 6’10-225 7’4 wingspan, 9’1 reach
    -Great shooter: shot 42% on 80 attempts in Nike EYBL is shooting well at MSU now.
    -Good Defender: Good helper and is good on the perimeter in switches and Pick and roll.
    -High IQ and vision: Good passer



  9. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I haven't said much about him yet. But I have taken notice. I don't want to build up players this early only to have them crash back to earth. But so far, he looks like the real deal. He also looks like he might be a combo player, someone that can not only play PF, but could fit in at SF in the right matchup. I like everything I've seen from him, and then some. But, it's still early and none of the teams have gotten into conference play, when the competition will get better. As I said a few weeks ago, there is the top five now, but trust me, someone will emerge and jump up into that top five. Could be Jackson, or could be his running mate, Bridges. I have Mich St. going to my final four. That's probably the kiss of death!:eek:
  10. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    Will this be the greateat draft of all time? Looks like 5 maybe 6 guys who could have gone 1st last year in what appears to be a solid draft.

    I can't remember a year with more highly intriguing players.
  11. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Really early into the college season, but I don't think so. In the 96 draft, it included Kobe, Ray Allen, Peja, Nash, and a bunch of other names. You also have the 03 draft of Lebron(GOAT player), Melo, Wade, and Bosh.

    I don't think we've seen a clear cut #1 pick, but there's 4 different candidates for it. All 4 bring different things to the table, but they have big flaws.

    Ayton: post-scoring C with some OK defensive potential. Jumpshot doesn't look good, can his playstyle be as effective in modern NBA? Even the dominant scoring Cs in today's game with Cousins, KAT, and Embiid are great shooters now.

    Doncic: all-around PG/SF with slightly below average defensive potential. We've a heard it a thousand times about him being the youngest in Euroleague, but it doesn't automatically mean success in the NBA. He plays extremely close to 2017 Gordon Hayward, but his defensive concerns can't be overlooked. His footspeed is slow. He also doesn't have the quickest first step which makes you wonder if he can effectively breakdown in 1 on 1 scoring scenarios.

    Bagley: energy PF with lacking clear skills on both ends. Bagley has great touch around the rim, but he lacks offensive polish. Not jumpshot to speak of. FT% through 3 games has been terrible. He's a great offensive rebounder, but doesn't box out on defense. He shows potential to switch onto guards, but won't offer you much on rim protection. Despite all this talks of rawness, he has a great competitive nature with an extremely high motor.

    Porter Jr: haven't seen him in college at all due to an undisclosed injury.... based on what we've previously seen, he seems like an all-around scorer, but not a great scorer from any particular spot. I still want to see him in college because I think 20 games of college performance triumphs anything we've previously seen.
  12. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    First, I'm disappointed that Porter hasn't shown up, except for a brief appearance for a couple of minutes. Hopefully he recovers from whatever this mysterious injury is and gets back on the floor. I think your underselling Ayton's defensive potential a bit. He has all the tools to be a great defender he just needs to learn how to use them. He has terrific lateral quickness for a player his size. The question is, how will he fare once he goes up against better competition. So far it's been a cake walk for him. He's shooting 60.0% overall and 16.7% from the three. Of course he's only taken 6 three pointers through three games, so that's hardly anything to judge on. He's a very fluid athlete with nothing more than basic post moves, but he's very good with the moves he has. He needs to be more of a force on the offensive boards. Through 3 games he has 6 offensive rebounds versus 29 defensive rebounds. Needs more balance there.

    One has to wonder who the better player on Duke is right now? Bagley, or Carter? Bagley is shooting 62.7% overall against Carter's 56.3%. However Carter is shooting 50% from the three while Bagley is shooting 25%. Of course through three games, both have only taken 4 attempts. So does Carter making 2 out of 4 make him a better 3pt shooter than Bagley who made 1 out of 4. Probably not! Ironic that you bring up Bagley's defensive rebounding, because he's pulling down more defensive rebounds than offensive one's. So far through 3 games he's grabbed 14 offensive rebounds against 23 defensive rebounds. While his rebounding basics may be a bit lacking, he makes up for it by out quicking everyone. It's looks at times as though he has pogo sticks for legs. Both Bagley and Carter are averaging around 9 boards a game. Where Carter has the advantage is in blocked shots per game with 3.2, and free throw percentage which is around 60% to Bagley's 38.9%.

    While were on the subject of big men, we have to mention Bamba who is shooting 64.7% overall and 20% from the three. Through 2 games he's attempted 5 three's and made 1. He's averaging 9 boards a game, 6 offensive, and 12 defensive. As of now, he's a shotblocking machine averaging 4.5 blocks a game. Lets see if he can keep that up. It's interesting to see players trying to post him up and when the inlet pass comes, Bamba just reaches over the posting player and pokes the ball away before the player can reach it. His arms are very, very, very long. His defensive potential is off the charts. His jumpshot doesn't look bad either. I think in a couple of years, he might a force to be reckoned with. He needs to get stronger though. Ayton looks like adonis next to him. Ayton is a physical specimen..

    One final note: Watched the Michigan St. game and didn't appreciate the ref's blowing their whistle every time Jaren Jackson looked at an opposing player. I think he played something like a grand total of 5 minutes in the entire game. While every other player banged, pushed and ran over people without a whistle being blown, Jackson got called for breathing on a player. Very frustrating to watch. About the only thing I hate about college basketball is the officials. Some of the are absolutely terrible. Nice game by Bridges though. It took him a while to figure out how be effective, but he finally got the job done. He's a terrific athlete.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  13. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    With Ayton a lot depends on how his jumper fares and looks as the season goes on. I think it was the coach who said he was a better shooter than Marrkennan but that is hard to see. If he is limted to post ups that dims his star a bit. Might even put Bamba ahead of him.
    Jackson has looked really good in the minutes ive seen. Love the edge to him and shot blocking instincts. He appears the best 3 pt shooting big also between Ayton, bagley and bamba.
  14. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Michael Porter Jr. Will have back surgery and likely miss the rest of the season.
    Breaking: Michael Porter Jr., a top prospect for next year's NBA draft, is expected to miss the rest of his freshman year. https://t.co/t4gIBnexyx
  15. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    Well, that's a downer.
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  16. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Well-Known Member

    That's a bummer I was looking forward to seeing him play this season. I wonder if he still declares for the upcoming draft, for the Kings sake I hope he does
  17. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    If he's recovered fully I would expect him to declare.
    He's just seen how easy it is for his career to be derailed by injuries.

    If I had to guess (and again, this is dependent on him getting healthy) I think he'll declare for a draft but not hire an agent and see how his workouts go. And if they go well and he's still getting signals that he's a top 10, top 5 pick then he'll stay in the draft.
  18. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Well-Known Member

    His brother reclassified so they would be able to play together, his dad is the assistant coach. Tough break for the kid.
  19. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Ayton is my favorite prospect right now, and I didn't want my bias for him to come through. I do think his post-play is outdated for modern NBA, but I think he's talented enough to develop a steady mid-range shot by year 2. Bagley is a fun player to watch and I love his motor. I think he's a better player and prospect than Carter Jr right now. I like Carter Jr, but I'm still trying to figure out the type of player he is. He's a center, but he's not as agile as the modern Cs. I love Bamba on defense, but I still want to see more of his offense. I want to see if he can be a #1 scorer in the NBA.

    Right now, not entirely convinced that any of our guys can be a franchise player. It's why I'm shifting a towards a heavy emphasis on scoring ability. I wish Joerger would just hand the keys over to Fox. I want to see if he can be the guy who can carry an entire offense. On the other hand, I'm also really disappointed in what we've seen from our bigs. None of those guys have stepped up. In this draft, we're looking at every position except PG and SG.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  20. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    just found out Porter is out for the season. What a tough blow. Looks like he may be scratched off the list of prospects for the upcoming draft.
  21. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Supposedly the recovery time after the surgery is about 3 months, and the draft is 8 months away, so he will have plenty of time to get back in shape for the combine. I expect that temporarily he'll slide down into the mid or late lottery. But if he can be ready come combine time and show he's completely healthy, I suspect he'll be back at the top of the lottery again. I think it helps that the majority of the top picks are either centers or PF's, so he'll have value to teams looking for a wing player with size.

    Look, there's probably more film on Porter than on any player in the draft, so if you liked him before the injury, then if totally healthy, you'll like him post surgery. I guess there's always the possibility that he could return for another year, and if so he would automatically be the front runner for being the first pick in that draft. But my gut tells me he'll do what you said. Go to the combine and get feed back. If he likes what he hears, or better yet, get's a promise, he'll declare.
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  22. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Active Member

    There’s no way Porter comes back for 2019. Right now, he’s still a top 10 pick. Someone will take him. If he comes back and has another injury then he will slide big time. See under Giles, Harry. Consensus #1 to #20, and only went there because one front office fell in love with him and had multiple #1’s to mitigate the risk.
  23. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    If these guys are already lottery picks without playing a single game, I don't see the point in even risking anything to play college hoops.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  24. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    UNLV freshman C Brandon McCoy stats pop out. Haven't looked at him in depth and the opponents he's played so far have been less than stellar, but the stats he's putting up are insane. I think he's averaging around 22pts 13rebs 1blk through 5 games.

    Finished most of the UNLV vs. Eastern Washington game. In that game, McCoy showed absolutely 0 defensive awareness. I'll need to watch the Prairie A&M game to see if it's a coaching thing, or if McCoy is as lost as he seems. Talking Skal/Okafor/Papagiannis bad on defense. On the other end, he's a talented raw scorer. Solid overall athlete. He likes to post up and has a variety of moves to get to the rim. He was able to finish with either hand. Shows good touch on the mid-range shot.

    I'll need to watch more games, but I don't think he'll be a prospect for the Kings. He's an impressive freshman that will probably get drafted in the 1st round. A lot of scoring upside in McCoy.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  25. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    I mean a few years ago Embiid's injury in no way stopped the Sixers from taking him third. This injury probably puts Doncic, Ayton, and Bagley ahead of Porter for me, but if we're sitting at #4 or #5 and Porter is sitting there, I'm taking him.
  26. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    You never know, Porter's injury could end up being a god send for us. I'm always a bit fearful of back injuries, so getting a clean bill of health is absolutely imperative. I have no doubts about his talent.
  27. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    If you are looking for a good site for prospects, there is a new one run by Cole Zwicker (and others) called https://www.thestepien.com/

    It has decent coverage but is only a month or 2 old.
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I think Zwicker and Sam Vecenie are two of the most knowledgeable people on the planet when it comes to college players. You can go to either's twitter page and access all their podcasts or articles. Many times they do podcasts together, which is always worth a listen. Both guys follow these players almost from birth. I've seldom seen either of them wrong about a player.
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  29. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Sam Vecenie's The Game Theory podcast is well worth listening to. He usually has Zwicker on with him once a week.
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  30. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    I would also mention that both guys aren't afraid to admit when they don't know about a certain player, or admit when they were wrong about someone. That is something you don't always see nowadays.
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