Discussion in 'Prospects' started by Ozymandias, Jul 25, 2017.
Wouldn't that mean that he would appear in the 2019 draft, when we don't have a pick?
Yep. Definitely not good for the Kings. It's been rumored he would make that move for a while now though, well before rumblings of Bagley reclassing up.
Losing out on the chance at Barrett and gaining the chance to get Bagley is a net plus for the Kings tho for sure.
This story stinks of adults making promises they couldn't fulfill and giving misleading advice, which is the dirty underbelly of college hoops IMO. For now WKU and Stansbury will look holier than thou but I think time will reveal their hands are dirty, I mean they hired his godfather in 2016.... there's no doubt that played a major part of his recruitment...
When his godfather, Shammond Williams, resigned earlier this year it seemed this type of drama would soon follow, and now it has. If he's forced to sit out a year to transfer that sucks but at least he'll get to do what he wants.
This would play out poorly for the Kings timeline, no doubt, so so strictly as a Kings fan I hope this get resolved ASAP.
Hopefully a story like this serves as cautionary tales for future top recruits. Sadly, that might be the best thing that happens from this situation.
That would be correct. And if Bagley reclassifies to the 2018 draft, that would make Barret the heir apparent to the number one spot in that draft. Of course there's a lot of time between now and then, so who knows, we may acquire a pick somewhere along the way.
you can also add Gonzaga to that list
Don't get me started on the NCAA and their silly rules, that they seem to make up at times to suit their needs. I would like to point out to them that's there's an organization called the NIT that used to sit on that same throne. The NCAA and the individual conferences need to get their act together and enter the modern era. College basketball and the NBA are joined at the hip whether they like it or not, and changes need to be made. Right now college players have little or no say on anything, and yet they're the one's bringing in all the revenue. In my humble opinion, a player should be able to change schools without waiting a year to do so.
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and stop there for now. As you said, the handwriting was on the wall the moment Shammond resigned. The only reason Robinson committed to W. Kentucky was because of his godfather. I'l love to hear the backstory on why he resigned. Something stinks here. I just hope for Robinsons sake it gets resolved. It would be nice if the NCAA stepped in and backed a player for a change.
You know, Gonzaga actually has had a lot of their players go on and play in the NBA. Mostly in support roles, but none the less, when you consider that Gonzaga seldom gets a top 20 or even a top 30 recruit, I think they do a pretty good job of taking 3 and 4 star recruits and turning them into good basketball players. Compare that to Kansas or Syracuse and many others, like as you said Indiana, who have recruited top ten and sometimes top five players, all 5 star players, and had considerable flops. Indiana has had a coaching change, so we'll see what a difference it makes. I'm not a fan of the system N. Carolina St. runs either. It is what it is, and at the end of the day, it does come down to the individual.
Kevin Johnson looked like a run of the mill player to some extent at Cal because of the restrictive system they were running. But once in the NBA, he exploded into the player we all know. Unfortunately, he wasn't wearing a Kings uniform. And he could have been.
Edit: Referring back to Gonzaga, your probably remembering Adam Morrison and letting him taint your judgement. No doubt that he was a high pick, and he was definitely considered a bust. But when you look at Dan Dickau, Kelly Olynyk, Jeremy Pargo, Ronny Turiaf, Austin Daye, Kyle Wiltjer, Robert Sacre, and most recently Domas Sabonis and Zach Collins, they haven't done too badly. Of course there's John Stockton, and more recently his son, David Stockton. The majority of these players were never heard of until they went to Gonzaga.
St. Mary's, a school in the same conference has a similar record of adding players to the NBA. St. Mary's is the Australian connection. Or at least was for many years.
Just for the record; I don't subscribe to this typecasting/profiling..I think those molds are too easily shattered to hold any real weight, there's always outliers... Perhaps it's naive, but the longer I''ve watched the more i'm sure that keeping things on case-by-case basis is key.
History speaks for itself. I don't need to show you a list of players out of these programs who have either busted or been fringe role-players in the league and on occasion you get the one all-star out of the crop but the probability of that happening, at least out of those programs I've mentioned, aren't in their favor.
WKU has granted Mitchell Robinson a release.
Robinson enrolled at Western Kentucky, received financial aid in the form of an athletic scholarship and participated in team practices that count toward the 2017-18. Therefore, should Robinson transfer to another Division I program, he would have to sit out this season by rule.
Hopefully he can land some sort of pro deal. Landing at some blue-blood school to practice against top competition would be great for him too. LSU not so much....
Lemme just say that I think he's clearly good enough to go in the 1st rd even if he sits the season. My stance won't change on that so I'll just put it out there now; U might think 'He's just an unproven tall-athlete' and 'seems risky' but I'd argue it could be risky to pass on him, 7-footers with his type of physical tools are a scarce commodity.. especially if he's gonna keep fine-tuning his J and prep for combine type tests/drills all year he's got all the tools to crush the latter stages of the draft process (specifically team workouts) and recoup his 'draft stock' quickly.
I just can't fathom how it's fair to judge Rui Hachimura who came from halfway across the world to play at Gonzaga based on what Adam Morrison did in the pro's 10 years ago. It doesn't add up to me.
I don't always blame the player for being a bust too. Often times I think it's on the team and their scouting staff / F.O. for over-valuing players and pulling the trigger on them too early in the draft. A recent example of this would be Trey Burke and Utah, now I'm not saying he's absolved or couldn't have done things better, I'd argue though that he was never equipped to fufill the expectations of where he was drafted. I'm sure being a Kings fan you've seen many of these types draftd in the first underperform, so I do understand how it's easy to get gun-shy. Thomas Robinson over Harrison Barnes. Lillard and Drummond was insane, I still can't figure that one other then by saying the F/O had visions of sugarplums dancing in their heads.
So while we're on the subject of Kansas, lemme just say that I'm a big proponent of LaGerald Vick. Now he could be a bit of a knucklehead, I wouldn't argue otherwise. What he has though, IMO, is 1st round talent. He's got electric athleticism and really has great defensive potential, he can shoot it a bit and he can put the ball on the floor, sharp crossover, if you watch closely he gets these high degree of difficulty offensive rebounds.
I'll try to dig up Josh Jacksons comments about practicing against him, they're telling IMO, sadly when I search for them they're buried under floods of articles on their incidents last season.
Morrison isn't the only reason I've used Gonzaga as an example. Looking at some of the players as far back as a decade ago to come out of Gonzaga; Austin Daye, Robert Sacre, Kelly Olynyk, Ronny Turiaf & Dan Dickau just to name a few because I don't want to go too far back. The jury is still out on Sabonis, Collins & Williams-Goss but all in all, if I were looking for top tier picks, I'd steer clear from that Gonzaga program.
Kelly Olynyk's draft position has been justified IMO. I still think at-best these comparisons are an unclean correlation, I don't see how some knucklehead like Josh Selby should factor into an opinion on a blue-chip prospect such as Joel Embiid, Andrew Wiggins or Josh Jackson's outlook, who clearly could've played anywhere and been top-5 selections...
I'm not trying to convince you though, just wanted to make a point that I try to be as unbiased as possible.
I will say that I believe there's a flipside of the equation which i'd also be weary of too; Marquis Teague and Daniel Orton were over-drafted and given far too much benefit of the doubt because of their ties to the successful UK program, Marquis also rode the coat-tails of a National Championship squad to the first rd.. As someone who watched both Teague brothers closely in college it was quite clear that Marquis was no where near Jeff's potential, athleticism or anything for that matter..
Another player thats sure to be a favorite of mine throughout the process will be 6'6" Swingman Jacob Evans, a Jr. from Cinci. Who I thought was good enough to be drafted last year. He could be in play for the 2nd rd pick. He's crazy athletic, something like a 45" vertical, tough, tenacious and can do a bit of everything, he's a stat-sheet stuffer, including pass it quite well. 1.3stls per game .8 blks per..
Evans should be in for a big season. 42% on 4.6 attempts from 3 last year, if he can keep up that pace he'd be a great compliment to Fox IMO.
Watching Teague & Orton at UK, I wasn't convinced they would make good pros. Nothing they did really stood out to me that can translate.
all the HS recruiting services took a major L with Marquis too. They used to hype him like he was gonna be better than Jeff. Marquis was laying the ball up on wide-open fast breaks and Jeff was throwing down viscious jams in halfcourt offense. If they weren't brothers no one would've ever thought to compare the two.
Orton's a bit of a special case, one of the few players that didn't leave with Coach Cal's blessing, one of the few who didn't finish his coursework.
In hindsight you could say both struck while the iron was hot. It's the fault of the scouts and teams who drafted them though, thats really the part of the equation that doesn't get enough attention.
Too much attention/credit goes to the coaches, the programs and even the teenage kids themselves; what about the teams with 7-figure scouting budgets? and expensive ass databases and experienced front office people that often swing and miss - They're a much bigger piece of the pie than often gets said. They wanna crown Jerry West the greatest exec of all time but tell that to the Fans in Memphis who he left with the bill of Hasheem Thabeet..
Thats why I love this stuff though, it's an inexact science, even on some epic draft hit like Utah trading a 2nd rd pick and some cash up for Rudy Gobert --- They had no idea how good he was gonna be, I've listened to their GM say it, they had a few bigs they liked, he was one of the last on the board so they pulled the trigger, and boom, franchise player.
The fact that most of the players you mention got drafted or were thought 0f as draftable, is actually a credit to the program. Almost all of those players wern't very highly ranked coming out of highschool. I think Mark Few is an excellent coach who develops 3 and 4 star players and gets the most out of them. Sabonis is an exception, and as you say, the jury is still out. I can't remember Gonzaga ever getting a top five recruit. There are some coaches that are very good recuriters, but not great coaches. And then, there are coaches that never recruit the top highschoolers, but produce good players. Maybe not franchise players, but solid rotational players.
You seldom see Rick Pittino or Jay Knight walk away with the top recruiting class, but year after year their teams (Louisville and Villanova) are competitive and often contenders for the title. A coaches job is to produce a winner, not an NBA player. One is the bi-product of the other, hopefully. I will admit that I cringe sometimes when I see a top prospect choose a school with a system that in my opinion doesn't fit that players abilities. In many cases, and this is true in the NBA as well, it's all about fit.
If a team drafts a shooter, and then tells him to stand in the corner and wait for the ball, he's probably not going to get many shots in his short stint on the floor, and if he gets three shots, and misses two, then he might not get back on the floor that game. What was the difference between Hield in New Orleans and Hield in Sacramento. Joerger gave him the green light. He didn't have that with the Pelicans. A shooter has to be allowed to shoot. My point is, Sacramento was a better fit because we really didn't have anyone else. Too often young shooters, who are unproven in the NBA don't get that chance. And then of course you have those that do, and blow it. Like McLemore. It's not an exact science.
Jannero Pargo was a great success story at Gonzaga too. Few is one of the best coaches in college IMO and there's not much of a case to be made aginst him.
There's no doubt some teams do less with more and some do more with less, the latter is usually a combination of being able to spot underrated talent and develop it.
Colorado has been sneaky good at this and I suspect they've landed another under the radar gem in D'Shawn Schwartz. It's unlikely he's a one-and-done but I like his chances at making the league. I'm sure he's underrated.. He's one of my favorite sleepers in the class;
6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan btw. #1 ranked player in the state of Colorado.
I'm a fan of projected top-20 7-footer Brandon McCoy headed to UNLV btw, he's an elite talent freshman and I'd say likely lotto pick..
He's got great touch and some nice foot-work/post moves, he's kinda like Brook Lopez as far as I'm concerned and I'd say if Papagiannis shows little this year I wouldn't rule out taking him.
6'10" Kansas PF Billy Preston is sure to be a polarizing player in this thread so I figure it's best to introduce him ASAP, for those who don't know.
I hate to have to start out like this but it's worthy of note, he's quite old for a Freshman, he's actually older than Dragan Bender and will turn 20 in late October. He's also a bit of a black hole..
Now you might be reading that thinking "Say no more",but, what he does have is game. He's equipped with the skill to put up points in a hurry, and he's a strong kid and good athlete. He can really put the ball on the floor, he can pull up, he's going to be an EXTREMELY difficult cover in college, his shot is nice, he's got some Michael Beasley type qualities (not that level on the boards tho).
Interesting player to watch, I can pretty much guarantee you he's going to drop 30+ points on some team and it's going to look impressive. Billy's got a real nice repertoire of face-up moves. He's got a "new age PF" type of skillset and a prototypical PF build.
Mitchell Robinson, who was released by Western Kentucky, was on LSU campus today, sources told ESPN. Talented big man from New Orleans.
6:52 PM - Aug 5, 2017
Another Polarizing Kansas player sure to be discussed in this thread is former #1 ranked player in the class, Malik Newman, who's a combo guard with a truly awesome 3pt shot.
Here's some recent footage of him dropping 32 on their trip to Italy.
He'll turn 21 at the end of the college season and he's only about 6'3", he's such a rediculously good shooter though that his potential to climb the draft boards is definitely real.. There was a lot of nonsense surrounding his Fr. season at Mississippi State, that I didn't like (not from Malik but from how it was perceived).
He's got the potential to shoot the lights out during the season and then really wow teams in private workouts late in the process.
Doncic's impressive debut for his National Team. 14pts 4asts 6rebs in 13 minutes!
I think he's a PG at the next level. Of course he's not going to defend PGs, but he's going to be running an NBA offense. I worry about his fit with Fox. Fox is a ball dominant scoring PG who can't space the floor. Can't see the two co-existing together if you're asking for maximum effectiveness. Doncic has been perfectly fine playing with Goran Dragic for his NT, but Dragic can actually play off-ball and space the floor.
I think he'd fit well with Fox. Fox needs the ball to be effective but he doesn't need to dominate the shot clock to do so. I feel like he can get the ball to Doncic the ball in an advantageous position, and quickly, and thats all Luka needs to have the defense at his mercy.
My opinion is Doncic's primary NBA position is SG, who can also play SF and some point though.. Of all the what position does he play ?'s to watch in this class Doncic is #1 though IMO.
My buddy who's 6'7" met Michael Porter Jr last week and swears he's a legit 6'10 and will be a PF. I'm still gonna say his position is SF/PF though, even though there's many huge mismatch type of players at SF, I think thats where he'll fit best. As a smallball PF though as I've mentioned before, you can really spread the floor.
The position he guards will come down to his official measurements. This year, Real Madrid had him listed roughly at 6'5 w/o shoes. Euroleague has him at 6'6 w/o shoes. Guessing with a 220lb frame. If he can grow to at least 6'7 w/o shoes and adds more bulk, I think he'll be able to guard SF even without a positive wingspan.
I think Doncic is a point guard in the NBA. He should be the #1 primary ball handler.. this is why I don't like the fit with Fox at all. Doncic doesn't need the ball to be effective, but if you're taking the ball out of his hands, you're making him stand at the corner to wait for 3s. That's not a player who's worth the #1 pick. Doncic is worth the #1 pick because he's a 6'7 wing with ball handling, playmaking, facilitating, and elite vision.
Let's see how Fox does in his first year. If he shows franchise player potential, then I think we'll pass up on Doncic. The fit is just too awkward lol
One thing I'm fearing with Porter Jr in terms of being a SF is that he's not quick enough. Jayson Tatum doesn't have good quickness, but he makes up for it with his in-between mid range game. Those weird post up fadeaways exploit smaller wings. If Porter Jr doesn't have that quickness, I'm not seeing the same mid-range threat from Porter Jr. However, the great thing about him is that he can easily play PF if SF doesn't workout. I don't see any real problems at all with him being a NBA PF once he bulks. Only slight problem I see is that we'll need a shotblocking C to make up for rim protection.
He's quick enough to give shooters trouble on the perimeter, also he's got great instincts at leaking out after a turnover or dreb and getting in transition, where he'll struggle is hanging with penetration, conversely tho at PF he's got a skinny lower body and will likely get mauled in the post..
@bajaden I looked forward to discussing with you these prospects and the upcoming college season and draft process but sadly this will be my last post here.
This board is not for me. I'm wrong for being right here. Too many absurd holier than thou rules, people wanna pick fights and hold dominion over inane topics, this place is basically dead anyways dunno why you'd treat posters as such.. I'll take my talents elsewhere.. Good luck to y'all. I'm still rooting for the Kings and will be watching nightly, just gonna go elsewhere to post about em.