Following 2018 draftees

Discussion in 'Prospects' started by Ozymandias, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Jarren Jackson will be a better nba defender than Mo Bamba qoute me. There blocking shots at about the same rate but Jackson is way better pick and roll defender which is more important. He’s already an elite defender and size that makes him a great pick outside Bagley, Ayton, Doncic, Young, and Porter.

    Shocking part: his shooting should excite everyone

    FTs: 4.1 attempts shooting 81%
    3s: 2.5 attempts shooting 43%

    This kid is good and whoever gets him outside the top 5 will be getting a steal.
  2. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    The big problem that Jackson has right now is that he's a foul machine. After fouling out today he's going to be at 6.0 fouls per 40 minutes - and you only get 5, which is a major reason why he's only playing 22 minutes a game. Bamba, on the other hand, is only committing 4.0 fouls per 40 and playing 29.5 minutes per game. Jackson is a tantalizing prospect, but he has to get his fouling under control. Right now I'd say Bamba, with his outrageous wingspan, will be the better defender.
  3. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I agree on the fouls. That's been my complaint from the beginning of the season. To be honest, I don't think he'll get called for some of those fouls in the NBA, but a lot of his fouls are just plain stupid, like pushing a player in the back after he's beat you off the dribble. The good thing is that they're correctable. If I had to bet, I'd say that if he corrects his foul problem, Jackson will be the better all around player, but I think Bamba will be the better defensive player. If I had to choose between the two of them, I'd probably take Jackson and hope I didn't regret it. Not sure I wouldn't take Mikal Bridges over both of them. He's so consistent on both ends of the floor.
  4. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Just finished watching OSU vs. MSU.

    Keita Bates-Diop is a name I haven't heard in a while. He's a legitimate 6'7-6'8 SF with a 7'4 wingspan. 22yearold who put up 32pts 7rebs 3stls 1blk on 12-21FG 2-4 3PT and 6-7 FT. His game reminds me a mix of TJ Warren and Rudy Gay. He's deadly with the turn around J. In this game, he absolutely dominated Jaren Jackson Jr. He kept shooting shot after shot over him. Miles Bridges did a much better job containing him on the move, but they put Bridges on him way too late(6-7mins left in the game). He's a very aggressive down-hill attacker, but his finishing ability needs some work. I don't see this as a major problem considering his length. 3pt shot looks improved and he's shot it with confidence going 2-4. I think he did a great job pushing Jackson and other PFs out of their position on defense. We'll need to see how he guards against quicker players though. He probably deserves his own post...so mabe he'll get one.

    Jaren Jackson was unfairly tasked with guarding Bates-Diop. Due to the scoring threat Bates-Diop poses, Jackson wasn't able to be his aggressive rim-protecting self we've seen. Finished with 11pts 2rebs 1stl 1blk in 24mins. He started out the game very aggressive on offense..then just washed out. Was invisible on the floor. I didn't like the effort we saw from him tonight. He floated too much and was clearly struggling on his matchup. He stayed out of foul trouble until the 2nd half, but he just didn't have a very good game.

    Miles Bridges had an ok-ish game. Finished with 17pts 7rebs but on 7-19 FG 2-8 3PT and 1-1FT. Lots of his deficiencies showed up tonight. Shot was extremely inconsistent. Was able to attack, but couldn't finish at the rim. Until he improves his ball handling, I just don't see him as an on-ball threat. When he tries to go side to side with the ball, he doesn't have enough speed. It leads to him constantly picking up his dribble on the move. I thought he did a good job on Bates-Diop. Bothered him with the postups and showed his strength. The one thing I did like on offense was his mindset. He kept trying to go at it instead of hanging his head low. Bridges is a player who's always going to bring the energy and effort every night even if he plays a poor game.
    biltalent likes this.
  5. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Keita Bates-Diop highlights from this year:





    Such a skilled player. Averaging 19.3pts 8.9rebs 1.4asts 1.6blks 1.1stls on 52.1/38.3/81.7. If he keeps up this production, I could see him going in the 1st round.
    kingsfan1984 and biltalent like this.
  6. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I was getting ready to do a write up on Diop. Not every game is like this one, but he's taken a giant leap this season, from averaging 9 pts a game as a junior, to 20 pts a game as a senior. It does make you step back and take pause. Is this the real Diop? This is a player that has never shot the ball well from the three, to shooting just under 40% this season, and over 50% overall. I hope its not an aberration. He's a very good athlete and as you stated, he has a good wingspan. If he doesn't go in the first round, and he's sitting there in the 2nd round when the Kings pick, I'd be fine with taking him.
    206Fan likes this.
  7. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    He is currently my number one target for our second round pick. But I have no idea if he will last that long.
    Think I have been high on him since the end of his sophomore season when I searched for 6'8" wings that put up high steals and block numbers and can shoot. Then, he got injured and missed most of his junior season. Now he is back and seems to have made great strides with his jumper. He represents exactly the type of player this Kings teams still lacks.
    206Fan and kingsfan1984 like this.
  8. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    I stand by my comment on Jarren Jackson being a better defender than Bamba in the pros. This article says his 14.8% block rate would be number 1 in any of the last 10 drafts. Add that with the fact that he could stay with guys on the perimeter and he’s an all nba defender. Add in his shooting and we have a great 2 way player he can’t create for him self however

    I believe he’s the youngest player in the draft one of, his defensive awareness is not supposed to be that good at his age

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...n-anyone-top-oklahomas-trae-young?share=other
    biltalent likes this.
  9. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I wouldnt be opposed to ending up with Jaren Jackson Jr. in the first round and Bates-Diop in the second round of this draft. Not the star power one hopes for on the surface, but both are going to contribute a lot to winning basketball games. I mean if you play both of them at the 4/5 you have incredible spacing while still maintaining size and versatility on defense. This would also mesh will with Fox who thrives with space to attack. Put shooters around them and you have a clear identity going forward, with Willie as an additional rim diver, and Skal and Giles as the wild cards.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  10. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Yup if we’re at 6 I’m taking Jackson and hopefully Richardson keeps developing at Sg so it doesn’t become a huge need
  11. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    Has anyone seen much film on Isaac Bonga. I've been reading about him (http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/01/isaac-bonga.html), and he sounds like he could be an excellent gamble with a late 1st/early 2nd in an attempt to find a player with star potential who needs some development.
  12. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Active Member

    This right here, only I would even take him at 5. I’m just not feeling Porter; not different enough from Giles to warrant a gamble with a top 5 pick. I see Porter as a 4 in the long term—not a dynamic enough athlete to stay at the 3, especially with early back concerns. Mikal Bridges would also be VERY tempting.

    I don’t want any part of Bamba in the top 10. MAJOR project that would not contribute in any meaningful way until his second contract.
    Joshoua likes this.
  13. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Ayton is still my #1 pick, after a couple weeks into the season. You got to teach him to be more fundamentally sound on defense and how to use his tremendous body/athleticism to impact the game more on that end, but that's not something I'm all too worried about. It's easy to forget this dude is only 19 as he already has his full-grown man body, but there's a lot of room for development with his defensive skills with a quality coach.

    Caught the UNLV game against McCoy and just saw him dominate in the post with an insanely diverse number of moves to score. I mean he's just absolutely ridiculous for a 19 year old when he gets the ball on the low block or when he faces up 15 feet out. If he doesn't get the double, it's almost an automatic 2 points. Also still love his form on his jumper and he's keeping a respectable 33% from 3 thus far. That's so key when we look at this new NBA where everyone needs the ability to space.
    Tetsujin and CelticsFan like this.
  14. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    I have been following Bonga a bit since he is from my home country. Defintely an interesting prospect with his size and vision and passing ability. However I dont think he is shifty enought to run your offense full time. Developing that jumper is key so that he can fit in a modern offense. I also question his maturity a bit. Don't think american writers are on that as it was in one interview he did in German.
    Think he has more upside than your usual secound round stash guy but it is going to need time. You may want to keep him in Europe for two years and then bring him over slowly.
  15. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I love Mikal Bridges. He reminds me a lot of Kawhi Leonard, except he's already a good 3pt shooter. He's a terrific defender. Don't know if he'll ever be a star, but he's improved every single year at Villanova. He's one of my favorite players in the draft. I like Jaren Jackson as well, but as the Capt stated, he's a foul magnet. Of course it's correctable. As I've stated before, I'm not sold on Bamba. Very raw on offense, and I question his hands. Dude can block shots, but you have to do more than that in the NBA. Still young though, so a lot of time to improve.
  16. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Well-Known Member

    If the draft was today I would have to take Ayton. He looks like a franchise changing player to me, and as of right now the best prospect in this draft class
  17. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    I used the talkathon simulator for draft results and these are the results I got with the top results for each pick listed. I think we will finish 3rd worst behind Orlando and Atlanta. Well I did it for picks 2-4 and I ran the simulator 100 times for each spot


    ****(4th seed)****

    5.2.5.2.5.5.5.3.5.4

    5.5.4.3.5.3.7.2.2.4

    5.2.4.5.4.4.5.1.3.5

    6.3.6.3.1.1.5.6.6.1

    3.5.1.2.5.4.6.2.4.1

    6.1.6.5.2.5.2.3.1.4

    4.5.5.2.1.3.6.3.6.3

    6.4.2.5.1.3.5.6.5.5

    5.6.2.5.5.1.5.4.5.6

    6.6.6.2.2.5.5.4.1.2


    1: 12

    2: 15

    3: 11

    4: 12

    5: 29

    6: 16


    ****(3rd seed)****

    2.6.2.4.2.1.1.1.4.2

    1.5.1.4.2.2.3.2.4.1

    4.2.1.1.5.5.5.4.5.4

    5.1.5.6.2.3.2.3.1.3

    2.5.3.4.2.4.1.5.2.2

    3.2.5.4.5.5.5.5.1.5

    1.1.5.2.5.5.4.6.1.4

    2.1.3.3.4.6.3.2.2.3

    1.5.3.2.3.3.4.3.4.4

    2.2.5.4.2.5.3.3.5.1


    1: 18

    2: 22

    3: 16

    4: 17

    5: 22

    6: 6


    ****(2nd Seed)****

    2.4.4.3.5.1.1.1.1.3

    2.5.4.3.3.4.5.1.4.4

    1.2.1.3.5.4.3.5.4.3.

    4.4.4.3.4.4.2.1.4.4

    3.2.1.4.2.1.3.2.1.3.

    3.3.4.2.2.2.4.2.4.3

    4.3.1.2.3.4.4.5.1.1

    4.3.4.5.2.1.3.3.1.1

    3.2.2.4.2.3.4.4.4.2

    2.3.3.3.2.5.3.4.2.4


    1: 17

    2: 20

    3: 25

    4: 30

    5: 8


    So here are the top 2 finishes for each pick:

    2nd pick: top 2 results 4th pick(30)- 3rd pick(25)

    3rd pick: top 2 results are tied getting the 2nd and 5th pick (22)

    4th pick: top 2 results 5th pick(29) and 6th pick(16)


    Also according to talkathon
    Top 3 chance. 1st pick chance
    2nd pick: 55%. 19%
    3rd pick: 46%. 15%
    4th pick: 37%. 11%
  18. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    Some buzz right now on Twitter that Michael Porter Jr. may be back on the court in February. However I can not judge how reliable the source is.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/zou_zach


    Would be good to see Porter play at some point during the season. I dont have a good read on him yet from watching highschool and exhibition footage. The team USA footage is not that informative either. Yes, he is a great athlete and can shoot it. But what about his decision-making with the ball? His awareness on defense?
    Joshoua likes this.
  19. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    That’s good he probably saw how well the class was doing and wants in also proves his health.
  20. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think I need a new brain... My head hurts after reading this.....:eek:
  21. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Alright, back on the job after some successful surgery. It's miraculous what they can accomplish medically today.. Took in several games yesterday, with the Oklahoma game being at the top of my list. Trae Young returned to his old efficient self, unless of course you want to count his turnovers (9) against only 7 assists. Wow, it appears he's mortal after all. This is one of those situations where stats alone don't tell the whole story. Yes, he only had 7 assists (a number most college PG's would be happy with) but, not counting all the passes he made to teammates on the perimeter who couldn't make a shot, Brady Manek excluded, who had 22 points on 7 of 13 shooting and shot 6 of 9 from the three, he made 10 passes, count them, 10 passes to teammates right under the basket, all of whom couldn't make a layup or a dunk. 7 of those misses shots were totally uncontested. Point being, Young did his job, his teammates didn't.

    Other than that Young ended up scoring 43 points on 15 of 27 shooting while going 10 of 18 from the three. Yes, that's a lot of shots for one player on a college team to put up, but if he hadn't tried to take over the game, there's no doubt that Oklahoma would have lost that game. Young and Manek were the only two players on the team that could make the ball go into the basket. Because of his paltry 7 assists it robbed Young of a triple double since he had 11 rebounds. You can add in one steal and one block as well. I've mentioned Manek before, but I see an NBA future for him. He needs to get stronger, but he has a good all around game and is a terrific outside shooter. The league always has a place for players like him.

    Also watched the Duke/Wake Forest game. It's hard to find much to complain about with Bagley. No, he doesn't take a lot of 3 pt shots, but when he does take one, his form looks pretty good, and he is shooting just under 35% from the three, so he's not inept. Aside from that, there's a lot to like. First, you can't help but know he's on the court. He makes his presence felt on both offense and defense. He has a not stop motor. He's also made nice improvements on the defensive side of the ball, particularly on rotations and help defense, which has increased his ability to block shots. He had 3 yesterday. He also had 4 steals, 11 rebounds and 30 pt's on 11 of 21 shooting overall and 1 of 3 from the three. Granted, he does almost all of his scoring at that basket, or within 5 feet of the basket, but you can't discard his production. He's very good, and very quick in the post, which means he's decisive. In short, Bagley is one consistent jumpshot from being a star in the NBA. I wouldn't bet against him.

    His running mate , Wendal Carter had a solid, but not spectacular game. He contributed 15 pt's on 3 of 9 shooting, but going 2 of 4 from the three. He has a nice stroke from the outside. He also added 11 boards, 1 steal and 1 block. Carter probably has the best all around game of the Dukie bigs, and normally would be getting more press. But unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, he plays along side Bagley, who is highlight reel waiting to happen. I think Carter is one of those players that three years into the NBA will be knocking on the all star door. He's fundamentally solid and he goes quietly about his game as he puts up solid numbers game after game. My only knock on him is that he tends to disappear at times. But playing along side Bagley only magnifies that.

    Jaren Jackson had another solid game and once again, yawn, he was in foul trouble. It's almost as if his reputation for getting fouls is proceeding him and the ref's are looking for any chance to blow their whistle. I don't think this will be as big a problem in the NBA. He sill managed to play 27 minutes, score 19 pt's on 4 of 7 shooting, going 1 for 3 from the three. He also had 6 blocked shots. He's an instinctive shot blocker, and I think he'll be just as good a defender as Bamba, with a much better all around game. His one weakness seems to be rebounding. He only had 3 yesterday.

    His running mate Miles Bridges played 35 minutes, and also scored 19 pt's on 7 or 14 shooting, but he struggled from the three going 1 for 5. He added 6 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals. Miles is a terrific athlete, who reminds me a lot of Jaylen Brown. My problem with Bridges is, I'm not sure what he is, other than effective at the college level. He's a smart player who has expanded his game this year with better passing, and for the most part, better shot selection. He's listed at 6'6", maybe 6'7", but has a PF's body. Appearance wise, he look's a bit like a young Charles Barkley. Hey, he's probably taller than Barkley.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Joshoua likes this.
  22. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    A jump shot makes Bagley a sure fire superstar. When he faces up he’s gonna be to quick for bigs and his hook shots are money posting up. Adding a jumper would make him unstoppable. Also he has that “it” factor and has an elite motor and great work ethic. Like you said his jumper is definitely not broken.
    Kingster likes this.
  23. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I can't mention one Bridges (Miles) without mentioning the other. (Mikal) He had a tough game shooting the ball, particularly from the three. He scored 15 pt's on 3 of 10 shooting overall while going 1 for 6 from the three. More of an aberration than a worry. He's shooting 42.9% from the three on the season, and 50% overall. He played his usual stellar defense while grabbing 11 rebounds and blocking 3 shots. He also had 2 assists. His running mate, and Villanova's secret weapon off the bench, Donte DiVincenco, the 6'5", 205 lb combo guard, (you can't miss him because of his red hair) had a terrific game. He scored 25 pt's on 7 of 11 shooting overall, while going 6 of 9 from the three. He's shooting 41.3 % on the season from the three, while shooting 49.7% overall. He also added 7 rebounds and 3 assists.

    I really, really like DiVincenco. He's a borderline elite athlete who is very skilled. He usually handles the point when Brunson goes to the bench, and does a more than adequate job. He has good handles and high BBIQ. He seldom makes mistakes, and is a excellent defender. When he and Bridges are on the floor together, Villanova becomes a tough team to score against. DiVencenco is built for today's NBA. Don't know if he'll declare for the draft, but if he's sitting there in the 2nd round, I'd take him in a heartbeat. You can't have too many players that know how to play the game properly. Love the kid!

    One last player I'd like to mention, and I've been waiting for a while to bring him up, since he wasn't touted very highly coming into the season, and most people though he'd be nothing more than an 4 or 5 minute a game filler on the Kentucky team. Truth is, right now a case could be made that he might be the best player on the Kentucky team. I'm speaking of Shai Gilgeous Alexander, the 6'6" back up PG for Kentucky, who is currently starting, mostly because of an injury to Quade Green. Alexander is averaging 30 mpg while Green is averaging just under 25 mpg. And it's not because Green has been terrible. Quite the contrary, he's been very good, it's just that Alexander has been better, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Alexander is a terrific defender, averaging 2.1 steals per game. He's capable of guarding PG's, SG's and SF's, and when Kentucky goes into a zone, having a 6'6" PG on the floor makes it far more effective.

    For the year Alexander is averaging 12.4 ppg, on 50.3% shooting overall while shooting 47.6% from the three. He also averages 4.4 assists per game. Yesterday in Kentucky's game against Vanderbilt, he played 39 minutes, scored 22 pt's on 7 of 11 shooting, going 1 of 1 from the three. He also had 4 boards and 6 assists. I think Alexander will work his way into the bottom of the 1st round. Did I mention that he's a very good athlete as well.
    Telemachus likes this.
  24. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I agree with you. I tend not to throw the word superstar around, but Bagley has all the tools to become one. Doesn't mean he will, but as you stated, he has a very good work ethic, and the athletic tools. Those two things in combination together usually add up to a star.
  25. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    If playing at the 4 at the NBA level doesn't work for him, he can always slim down and play the 3. That will solely depend on him of course and whether he wants to commit to a proper nutritional program and working with some of the best athletic trainers in the sport will do wonders for him as well.

    As far as Bagley, I've watched him the most out of the prospects up to this point and he is number one on my board. I love hearing the motor aspect of his game, that you cannot teach.
  26. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I agree with some of the scouts that count having a great motor as a skill. One thing that gets lost at times is for a player to play at top speed all the time, the way Bagley does, you have to be smart, and skilled. Otherwise you turn into a turnover machine. One of the things I love about Young is that when he drives to the basket, he's at top speed many times and is still capable of throwing up a nice soft floater. Not easy to do. Many times players lose their touch around the basket when going full speed. Not Young, he's in total control almost all the time. He does get in trouble sometimes when he dribbles into traffic, but I'm amazed that he doesn't turn it over more in traffic.
  27. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    What won me over and why I’d take him over Ayton is his mindset, dude has take over the game give me the damn ball attitude. You don’t teach that.

    I don’t like throwing star around too but I think Doncic, Ayton, Bagley, and Young could all be stars.
  28. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Took in three Ohio St. games back to back to back. I've posted a highlights video of one of the games, the Michigan St./Ohio St. game. For some of the game it pitted Jaren Jackson against Keita Bates-Diop, the 6'7", 235 lb SF. Diop had a great game scoring 32 pts and he showed off all of his skills in this game. He has a very good midrange, postup, step back shot that's very difficult to block, ans Jackson found out. He knows how to use back screens, as you'll see in the video, and he's a pretty good post player as well. It's obvious he really worked on his game in the offseason, because he's improved dramatically from the previous seasons. (He's a senior) He has decent handles, and will put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. He is however more of a straight line driver at this point. He's also an excellent rebounder for a SF.

    He's not much of an assist man at this point, and he will turn the ball over. In my opinion, his defense has improved quite a bit this season. He's not the defender that Mikal Bridges is, but he is a willing defender, and does a good job of keeping his man in front of him. He also reads the passing lanes well, and although he's not the athlete that Bridges is, he's a good athlete with decent lateral quickness. In fact, there are a lot of similarity's between Diop and Bridges, which makes me wonder why one is considered a high lottery pick and the other a 2nd round pick. It's true that Diop is a senior, but Bridges is a junior. Can one year make that much difference. Must be a lot of little things that add up. There is some debate as to whether Diop is a SF, a PF, or a stretch four. I think he can probably play both positions, and I think he's capable of guarding both positions, depending on the match up.

    Of course Mikal is capable of guarding four positions, depending on the match up. Think I answered my own question about draft position. Anyway, Diop impressed me and I think he'll manage to creep into the bottom of the first round when it's all said and done. But if not, and he's sitting there in the 2nd round when the Kings pick, I'd certainly give him some consideration. I think he has the tools to play in the NBA.


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