Don't Sleep On B-Mac....Here's Why:

#1
Now or Never Ben

I have gone back and forth on Ben for 2-3 years, undecided if he was a diamond in the rough or another wasted pick in a string of wasted picks (Jimmer, T-Rob, Nik) that have torpedoed our franchise into irrelevancy.

I have been repeatedly on the verge of giving up on him, throwing in the towel and say "no mas no mas!!! my eyes my eyes!!!!" but every once and awhile he provides a glimmer of hope.

Just enough to say....



I saw B-Mac in Houston at the last game of last year from the third row of the Toyota Center. Its nice to see a player up this close because you get a real sense for what he can and can't do:
  • the athleticism
  • the fundamentals
  • the intangibles
  • the aggressiveness
Granted the game was basically an extended YMCA scrimmage but B-Mac had his mojo going to the degree B-Mac has mojo that goes.

24 points on 50% FGs
5 rebounds
3 assists
2 steals
40 minutes

This game was an outlier for a guy who averaged half of these numbers on less efficiency.

Is it possible this kid at the tender age of 23 and in his 4th season starting in less than two weeks and 232 games and over 6300 unearned minutes can finally become a legitimate NBA SG???

Is it possible he can be more than a neutral to negative player on most nights?

Is it possible he can log a respectable PER for the first time in his career (14 PER or better) instead of wallowing below 10 PER like a no-name D-Leaguer feeling his oats?

I think this answer is maybe to possibly. Which is better than the projection of most Kings fans which is "NO CHANCE". and which is better than hell to the no. I am telling you don't give up on him just yet.

Here's why:

We knew this kid was immature, mentally and physically, when he was drafted at 19 years old. We knew he came from poverty which hindered his emotional development. We knew he was a nice kid. We knew he was shy and reserved and plain spoken, the opposite of worldly, and not remotely ready for the Big Show.

The pretty jumper was there. But it didn't go in. The hops were there. But open air was rare. Then there was the misadventures as a passer and a dribbler. It was often like a hot potato when the ball was in his hands with opponent drooling with sense of theft.

Then there was the inability to create space and own shot. There there was the fluctuating confidence and self-doubt and own head coaches who lost faith and hope.

He was gifted minutes because there was no better option. And the gift he delivered to long suffering Kings fans was often a piece of coal.

This was not how it was suppose to go. The Ray Allen comparisons have been put to bed. The future all-star projections have been laughed away. Pete D is turning red as I type this.

B-Mac has looked often like he was on roller skates, the tread on his sneakers worn off despite donning new pair.

His lack of balance and shiftiness and lateral agility hurts him on D and O, limiting his effective cuts with and w/o the ball and ability to deny penetration and close out on shooters.

So even though Ben is a borderline great athlete, with a lovely looking jumper, his lack of strength, particularly core strength, has hindered his ability to check his man and create space with or without the ball.

If this Instagram video shows anything, this issue may finally be addressed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKUhi0BBjcH/?taken-by=b_mclemore23&hl=en

As someone who maxes out around 310lbs.....500 pounds is BOSS! B-Mac has a work ethic and drive and a desire to be more than an NBA footnote. More than the next Jimmer. This counts for something! I'd say it counts for almost everything when the raw tools are there.

B-Mac got married recently. He's expecting his first child. Our naive wide-eyed draftee is growing up off the court. By extension, genuine growth on the court seems appropriate if not overdue.

I wish he had more length as SG, being 6'4" with average wingspan at best. I wish he had more juke moves to free himself with 5-10 seconds on the shot clock. I wish Kate Upton was in my bed. :cool:

But one thing I do NOT have to wish for is that when Curry went from pretty good player with bum ankles to odds on favorite to be MVP of the NBA is when he became deceptively strong. I don't have the numbers, but it was reported that Curry can deadlift more than any other player on the Warriors, including their bigs.

Curry became great when you could no longer smother him and when he turned into a two way player. If defenders try to play him tight, he blows by, he keeps his lane and his balance and counters. He also has the physicality and reaction time to cut off penetration into the lane.

This is what Ben can do in theory this upcoming season with his newfound combination of speed AND strength, per video. Of course theory is different than reality and this is the challenge that lies before him.

The deadlift is a good gauge of overall strength and matters a lot more than bicep diameter or max bench press. When you can deadlift a ton, or in the case of B-Mac 1/4 of a ton, you can absorb contact and finish.

You can fight through screens and give as much as you take. You are no longer a pushover. You are a beast in high tops.

What needs to happen now is for his improved physicality and strength to translate to increase confidence and aggressiveness.

What needs to happen is for Ben to clearly outplay Affalo in training camp, a good veteran on the decline, and WIN THE STARTING SG spot.

I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it, but I think he can do it. Ben needs to stop taking abuse and start giving it. This means drawing contact, getting to the line, and using his superior athleticism and strength instead of being Mr. Nice Guy.

There should be no more Mr. Nice Guy. You're playing for a NEW contract (QO pending next summer) and put food in your new baby's mouth! This is another reason to quit being a invisible presence on the floor too often. You have a family to take care of in the midst of exploding salary cap.

Make your mark, bro.

When you are strong and quick, the defender has to back off. Now make him pay for backing off by burying the jumper with more regularity (40% 3s after career best 36.2% last season). On the other end, use your physicality to deny penetration and get 1/2 step closer to your man to deny dribble penetration and receipt of the pass.

The SG position in the NBA is probably the weakest of all positions. The opportunity is there yet again in Year 4 to show he's not a pretender. Ben has logged a ton of minutes there over three arduous seasons. It is overdue for this franchise to start receiving tangible dividends on this investment.

Now or never, Ben.

I have said this is the year whether we decide Boogie is a King for Life or whether he needs to shipped to greener pastures, the Cs or elsewhere. The same goes for Ben. It is time to step up or step out. This diehard is betting on the former. I am betting Ben is a late bloomer and not a bust. It is time to start blooming.

Cheers
Blob
 
Last edited:

gunks

Hall of Famer
#2
I think it's the fairly unanimous (I suppose that isn't a thing. It's either unanimous or it isn't, but I digress....) opinion around these parts, that with Ben it is all mental. Coaching is huge for the kid.

We saw him make some strides under Malone. He was looking like a solid two way player AT THE LEAST.

Then Karl pooped all over everything last season.

I'm hoping Joerger has a more Malone effect on Ben, and for that reason I haven't given up either. The tools are definitely there.

Joerger couldn't possibly be worse than Karl. But I don't think there's a coach out there that would be worse than what Karl brought last season (zero on the sidelines, negative in the locker room). And I say that as a longtime fan who knows just how awful coaching can get around these parts (here I am, digressing again)!

Anyways, go Ben! If he is given a simple role in a structured offense, I think he can really shine!
 
#5
Nate Duncans podcast today was about all RFA and mock extensions. On the pod Kings offered 3 years for 12 million and they did not come to an agreement.
 
#7
So he can deadlift 500lbs with a trap bar. Not bad, but I don't know if this translates onto the court in the way you hope.
Everybody is talking about strength and the lack of it as if NBA basketball was some kind of full contact sport, where you have to be able to move the defender. From my kind of view contact on a guard when he is driving to the rim is almost a sure foul call, when the defender is not in a perfect vertical position, making the game way less physical when compared with the past and favouring skinny but skilled players like Curry (let's be honest here: when you can deadlift a lot you look like you can deadlift a lot. That's the way it works regardless if you aim for hypertrophy or maximal strength). Ben shoots 1.8 FT's per game over his short career, so finishing through contact is not the main problem. The problem is, that he doesn't draw much contact at all.
Why? Because he has trouble handling the ball, he can't get into the lane under control and he avoids contact instead of searching for it.

Fighting through screens is another example, where everybody is talking about strength. Are you allowed to move the defender to get through a screen in basketball? I don't think so. To get over a screen you need to avoid it and take the shortest route around it to get close to your man again. More an awareness and quickness thing than actual strength. Take a look at how Avery Bradley avoids getting screened of his defender. And he is not a guy who is necessarily stronger than everybody else. He is quick and smart and knows when and where to expect the screen. The defender bumping into you during a screen is an issue, which could be related to strength, but I would say it's more of a balance thing and how you approach the screen (upright or aware of the possible bump with a bit of a lean towards the expected impact point).

Overall what's great in basketball is a thick lower body, that allows you to bump into your defender without using arms or upper body. Marcus Smart has this type of body for example and uses it execptionally well.
So squatting and deadlifting should be beneficial for every basketball player, but more on the defensive end than on offense. And no amount of deadlifting will turn Ben into Marcus Smart.

Ben has all the tools. But he finally needs the right mindset, solid mentoring by a coach interested in his development (screw you Karl...) and improved balance and handles.
I personally think Joerger counts on Ben ( his interviews hinted it).
And for the Kings it would be the best case, when Ben is able to beat Afflalo and Temple for the starting spot. Ben is 23 and to have a chance to be remotely successful in the next few years the Kings need some of their young guys to break out.
 
#10
I haven't given up on BMac at all. He's gone through as much dysfunctional as anyone on the team. Name me 1 rookie who can go through all this B.S. and still turn out as expected? Unless you're a super talent like Cousins, a dysfunctional organization will kill you. Let's look at how things have been since being drafted:

2013:
  • Headcoach: Mike Malone
Thorton was terrible, so we gave Ben heavy minutes. It was an ok overall rookie year. Underwhelming if you were expecting a star.

2014:
  • Headcoach: Mike Malone, Ty Corbin, and George Karl
He looked really good under Mike Malone. He looked like our franchise SG.........then they fired Malone for no reason. Vivek starts meddling about playing a faster pace. Pete D starts to do Pete D things. They promote Corbin, and the entire team basically gives up. Dysfunctional arises everywhere. Gay is not happy that he just signed an extension with Malone at HC, then they fired him. It got to the point where they "demoted" Corbin, then hired Karl. Karl and Cousins start off on the wrong foot, but at this point, it stays in the lockerroom and hasn't spread out to the media yet. Kings lockerroom is chaos.

Yet, somehow a 2nd year player should not be affected by this at all. He should be immune, work on his own game, and ignore that the Kings are crumbling all around him.

2015:
  • Headcoach: George "Snake" Karl
Do I really have to go through this season again? Yes? Ok.

Kings fire Pete D, then hire Vlade. A guy who at the most, only scouted for the Lakers overseas. That was his only real FO work. Right after that chaotic 2014 season ends, reports are flying about Karl vs. Cousins. People ignore it....till mid off-season, where it becomes pretty obvious that Karl demanded Cousins to be traded. Nothing goes right. Cousins calls Karl a snake on twitter. Shouting matches occurred. Resolutions were supposed to result, but within 10 games of the season, Cousins curses out George Karl. Vlade for some reason, decides NOT to hold Cousins responsible for this. All hell breaks lose in the lockeroom. Rudy silently wants to be traded. This season was beyond terrible and chaotic.

McLemore though? It was almost a regressed year. He didn't fit into Karl's offense at all. All of the dysfunctional surrounding him is a GIGANTIC adversity to fight through. Karl had crap defensive schemes that forced bad habits on almost everyone.

Fast forward till now..............

Name me 1 rookie who would be able to go through all of this turmoil and still end up good?
  • Complete front office turnover
  • 3 different head coaches in 3 years
  • Cancerous lockerroom
  • Star players disgruntled and wanting out
Joeger is about to be Ben's 4th coach in 4 years. No other young player has had to go through this much adversity within their first 4 years on a single team. No player. Yet somehow, we're expecting this raw 6'5 SG out of Kansas to be able to come in, and flourish despite these conditions because we spent the 7th overall pick on him. Really? Ben has never once complained about ANYTHING on this team. Not his playing time. Not how he's being used. Not about his coaches. Not about his teammates. He's been a professional throughout. In case anyone forgot, Ben is only 23!

Here's what I don't get. Why do so many fans feel like WCS has a super high ceiling, while McLemore is capped out as a reserve, when they're both the same age. It's funny that no one brings up the fact that WCS was basically calling out Karl to the media too. A rookie calling out a HOF coach. You're telling me a ROOKIE is calling out a HOF coach. Hell, not even Rondo or Gay called out Karl, but you're telling me WCS did? Somehow, that gets swept under the rug. Imagine if this was Ben. Crucified on a stick.

Like it or not, but McLemore is the best rookie we drafted since Cousins.
It sucks to see fans actively root for one of our own players to fail. That's sad actually. And for what?
 
#11
Can't definitively bury a guy with his athletic profile, work ethic, and unbroken shooting form, and his social media clips do look seductive (improved handles it looks as well). On the other hand the innate feel and BBIQ may continue to hold him back. A lot of people have concluded him a bust but it wouldn't extremely surprise me if he held his own as a NBA player and beat out Afflalo like it would many.

I don't expect him to be solid but I wouldn't think about moving him for scraps just yet, there is still a chance

Additionally Arron is slightly redundant in playstyle with Rudy, which may have been one of the reasons for shopping Rudy. But point remains Ben at his dream scenario can be a 3/D compliment to our offensive players where Arron has liked to hold the rock and his D has been slipping lately

A lot of what youth we have are at that position (Bogdanovic and Richardson), which would make it interesting if the minority happened and Ben pulled through

And would Afflalo take a bench role better than he did in NY?
 
#12
Ben is too nice and too passive for his own good.

If coach Joerger can light a fire under his behind, Ben can still be a very productive player in this league.

I think if coach can develop Ben into a higher end Courtney Lee type player, that would be the best case scenario for everyone.
 
#13
I don't think Ben's problem is that he's too nice or whatnot. He is simply not there offensively and defensively. On offense he can't create his own shots; shots have to be created for him; which is fine if he could knock down the open shots with consistency but he's couldn't. On defense, it's the same story - when he was dialed in he could be a plus but too many times he was day dreaming.

It's the same issue with him dating back to his college days. One of the biggest complaints of him as a prospect was that he disappeared too often. They would say, "He is too nice. He needs to be more aggressive..." Well, no. The reason he disappeared so often is because he had to rely on teammates to create shots for him and when the offense struggles that leads to him not getting shots and disappearing.

I didn't like him coming out of college and I found the Ray Allen comparison ridiculous; but I did hope that he could become one of those athletic do-everything but great-at-nothing type of guard - a 3&D with good rebounding (an area that he showed promise in college). But his rebounding sucks and his D mediocre. For him to take the big leap he'll have to shoot better from three and become a plus defender. Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening; and it's debatable whether it's worth your time to wait this long for a 3&D wing.
.
 
#14
I didn't read past the first few lines for a couple of reasons (one being the fact that it's long and I'm in a hurry, the other reason being something I won't say), but the effort is to be commended.

Ben is honestly the type of player who could have a few very good years in his late twenties/early thirties (I mean 16ppg 4rps 2apg 1spg) when he matures and gets confidence. People love to put labels on players but the truth is people develop mentally at different ages and Ben has all the physical attributes - his problem is the mental side (not completely of course, he does have some skill deficiencies). However, the importance of confidence cannot be understated.

To make a poor analogy, I was a guy who had poor self esteem in my first two years of college due to an abusive relationship I was in (not on my end obviously). Dear lord, after a month of being single, the light bulb went off. I realised so much about life and how it works, and that the other adults are in the same situation. And you realise that actually, you are smart enough to make it. I honestly think Ben is going to have a moment in the next couple of years when he realises he's not a kid anymore (and he kind of still is - I am 25 and I still feel much younger), and the mental side will click. People don't understand the pressure some of these guys are under, especially from family and acquaintances.

I am rambling now due to the beers, but I wouldn't want to give Ben up for nothing. Although maybe a change of scenery would help him. But I still have faith in him. I just think he lacks confidence. He's a hard worker so stick with him unless we get a decent deal. When Ben had confidence, which was in college, the guy looked a level above everyone. I remember talking to Baja about him, he honestly looked like someone who didn't care, he just knew he could do whatever he wanted. NBA was and still is a shock to him. Maturity will be huge for him.
 
#15
I don't think Ben's problem is that he's too nice or whatnot. He is simply not there offensively and defensively. On offense he can't create his own shots; shots have to be created for him; which is fine if he could knock down the open shots with consistency but he's couldn't. On defense, it's the same story - when he was dialed in he could be a plus but too many times he was day dreaming.

It's the same issue with him dating back to his college days. One of the biggest complaints of him as a prospect was that he disappeared too often. They would say, "He is too nice. He needs to be more aggressive..." Well, no. The reason he disappeared so often is because he had to rely on teammates to create shots for him and when the offense struggles that leads to him not getting shots and disappearing.

I didn't like him coming out of college and I found the Ray Allen comparison ridiculous; but I did hope that he could become one of those athletic do-everything but great-at-nothing type of guard - a 3&D with good rebounding (an area that he showed promise in college). But his rebounding sucks and his D mediocre. For him to take the big leap he'll have to shoot better from three and become a plus defender. Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening; and it's debatable whether it's worth your time to wait this long for a 3&D wing.
.
You are both spot on and a little harsh. He can't create his shot, you're definitely right about that. He can still be a good player though. The mental aspect is why he can't knock down shots or play defense consistently. Not creating his shot is a skill issue, not a mental one. When he had confidence in college he was head and shoulders above his peers. Obviously he wasn't a playmaker, but I remember watching him hit bomb after bomb, back door for spectacular finishes, play good defense and he even has a decent passing ability.

While I see your point regarding waiting, it depends on what the alternative is. Wait for him or what? Trade for a good return? Of course then trade him. But for peanuts? No thanks. Young players come back to burn trades far too often. If we're trading for an 8th man I'd rather keep Ben. That is the question though.
 
#16
In this league, if you need a coach or anyone to hold your hand and tell you it will be ok and what to do, you probably aren't going to make it. Don't fall asleep on him? He's the one asleep.
Check out the Instagram clip. He's not been sleeping this summer.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKUhi0BBjcH/?taken-by=b_mclemore23&hl=en

Your type of comment was the impetus behind my post. Too many Kings fans think this guy should be shipped away for a future 2nd round pick. I think that'd be foolish.

But I get the disappointment and frustration. I have been as disappointed and frustrated too by his inability to string together any numbers of games in which he is a positive contributor.

How often did this guy go 8 to 10 minutes stretches with 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 points and ZERO impact? Too often! This has to change. He has to make his presence known on the court with his athleticism and improved fundamentals.

Relatedly I disagree with this sentiment that Ben has to concentrate on being a "3 and D" player. That's a trendy label and lazy analysis. Ben has to assert himself into the action with more aggressiveness and savvy whether it shows up in the box score or not. He needs to use his athleticism to disrupt passing lanes and get out in the open court and finish.

But I think he's on the verge of something. And it has to do with physical and mental maturity along with wealth of playing experience over 3 seasons.

If Ben came into the league as a "mature 20 year old" then maybe we would have seen his stake his claim to legitimacy as starter or quality role player by year two or three. But I would contend Ben came in to the league as an "immature 20 year old". In fact, his failure to impress in pre-draft interviews is one of the reasons he slipped from where he was rumored to go, possibly as high as #2 overall, down to #7. So based on this assessment it is not unreasonable to conclude it would take him until his fourth season to turn the corner, longer than hoped but within a reasonable time frame.

But the wait is over, and if it is going to happen for him, it has to happen now. This is the season we find out if Ben can be part of a winning rotation or not. It starts with Ben outplaying Affalo in training camp or not. This will give us a good idea if his commitment over the summer amounted to tangible difference in his effectiveness and efficiency.
 
#17
Here's what I don't get. Why do so many fans feel like WCS has a super high ceiling, while McLemore is capped out as a reserve, when they're both the same age. It's funny that no one brings up the fact that WCS was basically calling out Karl to the media too. A rookie calling out a HOF coach. You're telling me a ROOKIE is calling out a HOF coach. Hell, not even Rondo or Gay called out Karl, but you're telling me WCS did? Somehow, that gets swept under the rug. Imagine if this was Ben. Crucified on a stick.

Like it or not, but McLemore is the best rookie we drafted since Cousins. It sucks to see fans actively root for one of our own players to fail. That's sad actually. And for what?
You are kind of misrepresenting things here:

(1) Willie was basically of the mindset that Karl was holding him back, telling him he couldn't be an offensive player. Willie was discontent in his role because he felt he could do more. Willie also implied that his confidence suffered from having a coach that did not have a high opinion of him.

There is support for Willie's perspective based on fact the team was a lot better for the first half of the season with him on the floor versus off the floor. Fans were clamoring for him to get more minutes, including in crunch time. Karl admitted he needed to find more minutes for Willie but had an inherent bias against rookies.

I don't have the source, but Willie also was the #1 player in the NBA whose teammates passed him the ball the least often. In other words, there seemed to be an active effort to exclude Willie from the offense unless it was a lob jam.

So I would say Willie was not exactly calling out his former head coach, he was commenting on his role and relationship with his coach and how it affected his performance and confidence.

(2) Show me where fans are actively rooting for Ben to fail?

I have seen NO evidence of this. In general I would say it is the jerks or prima donnas or guys who rub fans the wrong way with their personality that raises the scorn of some fans. Ben is a nice and unassuming kid.

No one is rooting him to fail except a few outliers perhaps. A lot of fans have given up on him every turning into a legitimate SG, but I think most of these fans would be extremely pleased to be proven incorrect.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#18
By the moves we have made it seems like the FO is sleeping on Ben more than Kings fans themselves, we didn't give the like of Afflalo/Temple 28million dollars between them so they would come here and not play. Also the signings of Farmer/Lawson pretty much force Temple into playing more minutes @SG. For the first 10-20 games I just don't really see Ben getting a chance barring major injury and the only way imo he gets time is if we are out of the playoff race rather quickly and we start developing all our young guys rather quickly. Also we drafted Richardson who showed enough during SL imo that he can actually be a ok player.

I'm right now just having a hard time seeing him get another chance to prove he's a NBA player in particular on a team like ours with no direction.
 
#19
I'm not sure if he should focus on the 3pt shot. Getting in the lane, absorbing contact, and finishing around the trees is what really builds confidence.
 
#21
By the moves we have made it seems like the FO is sleeping on Ben more than Kings fans themselves, we didn't give the like of Afflalo/Temple 28million dollars between them so they would come here and not play. Also the signings of Farmer/Lawson pretty much force Temple into playing more minutes @SG. For the first 10-20 games I just don't really see Ben getting a chance barring major injury and the only way imo he gets time is if we are out of the playoff race rather quickly and we start developing all our young guys rather quickly. Also we drafted Richardson who showed enough during SL imo that he can actually be a ok player.

I'm right now just having a hard time seeing him get another chance to prove he's a NBA player in particular on a team like ours with no direction.
Farmer and Lawson don't necessarily push Temple to SG until either or both of them prove them belong in the rotation. I can envision a scenario where Temple and Lawson share PG minutes (while Collison is out) with Affalo and McLemore sharing minutes a SG.

But you are right, Ben has to prove in training camp he belongs on the floor. He could slip out of the rotation altogether but if his off-season was as productive as I think it was, on and off the court, he can rise to this challenge.

It is not like we signed Courtney Lee and Allen Crabbe, in which case Ben would be resigned to permanent towel waver status.

I just don't see the competition as all that stiff if he starts to fulfill his potential once and for all. Affalo, Temple and Lawson are flawed players, none of them can be penciled in as quality starters or 30 MPG players, and it will not take long before this is apparent. I would like to hope Lawson regains his peak form and gets his confidence back, then maybe we have something.

Temple and Affalo are inefficient scorers, more basketball savvy than Ben, and declining athletes. They are far from world beaters. The size of their contracts is more of a reflection of the market than fair measure of the difference in talent. The opportunity is there for Ben. Joerger is going to give him a fair look. He just needs to seize it.
 
#22
All these guards are going to have to fight hard for minutes. No more playing Marco or Anderson when they absolutly brought negative results to the table.
Im hoping with Joerger and Turner on board Ben will find his groove, his focus and shows he belongs.
I think we have a pretty good idea of Affalo and Temples ceilings, better than last year but not high promise. Bogdan and Mali will also up the competition next year?
Ben and Cuz have a nice relationship. An improved Ben and Willie might help keep Cuz around long term.
 
#23
Check out the Instagram clip. He's not been sleeping this summer.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKUhi0BBjcH/?taken-by=b_mclemore23&hl=en

Your type of comment was the impetus behind my post. Too many Kings fans think this guy should be shipped away for a future 2nd round pick. I think that'd be foolish.

But I get the disappointment and frustration. I have been as disappointed and frustrated too by his inability to string together any numbers of games in which he is a positive contributor.

How often did this guy go 8 to 10 minutes stretches with 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 points and ZERO impact? Too often! This has to change. He has to make his presence known on the court with his athleticism and improved fundamentals.

Relatedly I disagree with this sentiment that Ben has to concentrate on being a "3 and D" player. That's a trendy label and lazy analysis. Ben has to assert himself into the action with more aggressiveness and savvy whether it shows up in the box score or not. He needs to use his athleticism to disrupt passing lanes and get out in the open court and finish.

But I think he's on the verge of something. And it has to do with physical and mental maturity along with wealth of playing experience over 3 seasons.

If Ben came into the league as a "mature 20 year old" then maybe we would have seen his stake his claim to legitimacy as starter or quality role player by year two or three. But I would contend Ben came in to the league as an "immature 20 year old". In fact, his failure to impress in pre-draft interviews is one of the reasons he slipped from where he was rumored to go, possibly as high as #2 overall, down to #7. So based on this assessment it is not unreasonable to conclude it would take him until his fourth season to turn the corner, longer than hoped but within a reasonable time frame.

But the wait is over, and if it is going to happen for him, it has to happen now. This is the season we find out if Ben can be part of a winning rotation or not. It starts with Ben outplaying Affalo in training camp or not. This will give us a good idea if his commitment over the summer amounted to tangible difference in his effectiveness and efficiency.
Your last paragraph pretty much sums up my thoughts. If there ever was a last chance for Ben this is it. The "he's still young" or "coach didn't use him right" argument can only last so long. He has to show us something, he's really running out of time. He's a good kid, but we are looking for a good basketball player, not just a good kid.
 
#24
Well last year should have been his chance, but gee what happened there?
PGs ave over 30 min a game, Ben only gets backup min at 21/game for a starter playing other starters - thanks to Karl playing two PGs at a time, Belli plays more min at back up, Belli has less 3pt%, and worse defense. As a starter Ben was last starter the team passed to.

Gee and you wonder why his consistant shot and confidence disappeared?

Not sure if he will have it much better this year, AA takes the starter min, Temple takes backup min?
Ben needs to fight hard to match AA min on second unit and outshine Temple, and learn everything he can about Coach's defense
 
#25
Well last year should have been his chance, but gee what happened there?
PGs ave over 30 min a game, Ben only gets backup min at 21/game for a starter playing other starters - thanks to Karl playing two PGs at a time, Belli plays more min at back up, Belli has less 3pt%, and worse defense. As a starter Ben was last starter the team passed to.

Gee and you wonder why his consistant shot and confidence disappeared?

Not sure if he will have it much better this year, AA takes the starter min, Temple takes backup min?
Ben needs to fight hard to match AA min on second unit and outshine Temple, and learn everything he can about Coach's defense
If he can get the primary backup role, he should be a bigger part of the offense. He will always be the third or fourth option with the starting lineup. With the second unit, he should be at least the second option.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#26
Curry became great when you could no longer smother him and when he turned into a two way player. If defenders try to play him tight, he blows by, he keeps his lane and his balance and counters. He also has the physicality and reaction time to cut off penetration into the lane.

This is what Ben can do in theory this upcoming season with his newfound combination of speed AND strength, per video. Of course theory is different than reality and this is the challenge that lies before him.
You're honestly trying to say Ben could be the next Steph Curry? I think at this point I'm just gonna stay out of this.

Oh, but by the way, the irony of you choosing to build Ben up while constantly dragging DMC down is rich. Have a nice day.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#27
I'm going to keep it real. Afflalo is going to start. Temple is goingto be the backup. If teams go to a 3 guard type lineup, we may see Ben play with Temple guarding the 3. Both vets are better than Ben. And truth be told, I think Richardson is the guy that we may want to develop with his length and potential.
 
#28
From off season interviews with Joerger I think he is at least intrigued by Ben. At the same time it is hard to see where he will get minutes barring injury. I would expect Afflalo will play 28-30 minutes at SG, Temple will get 20-22 at SG. Gay, Casspi and Barnes will have all the SF minutes and some PF minutes locked up. Also Temple will be used to cover minutes from positions 1-3. He may get a shot off the bench to start the season if Collison has a substantial suspension and Temple has to backup Lawson.

At full strength i see the rotation as such

PG: Collison 32 mpg, Lawson 16 mpg(if he surprises i could see him getting more minutes or even seeing 2 PG lineups)

SG: Afflalo 28 mpg, Temple 20 mpg( could pickup scrap minutes at the 1 or 3)

SF: Gay 32 mpg, Casspi 20 mpg( plus some minutes as stretch 4) Barnes 16-20 mpg( wildcard I could see starting at the 4 if WCS doesn't shine)

PF: WCS 16 mpg( plus 6-10 min at C) Casspi and Barnes I expect to get main backup PF minutes with Tolliver ready to contribute but out of rotation to start

C: Cousins 36 mpg, if Willie plays C minutes that leaves Koufos the odd man out at the only position he can play.

Joerger will have a tough job as pretty much every player on the roster except the rookies will come into the season expecting to play. At full strength its hard to see Ben getting many minutes unless Afflalo plays himself out of favor. I would expect Temple to be a stable force throughout the season.
 
#29
Very few players development has been marginalized like bens in his 3 years with us. 206fan laid out the coaching details well and ill add the fact that weve never once give him the opportunity to devlop his offensive game. Its been the pg, sf, c hogging virtually every possesion the past 3 years. Yea our shooting guards havent produced, but weve never made an effort to actually involve them in the offense in the last 3 years.

And the fact is, on a team starved for talent, we need ben to breakout and become a starting caliber sg. Afflalo and temple rotation isnt good enough.