Difficulties that faced building current Arco

[itzcoatl]

I came across an interesting article in the Sac News & Review about the construction of Arco arena. I'm not sure if this is exactly the right place to post it, but I don't think it warrants a new thread.

It discusses some of the difficulties that the Sacramento Sports Association (SSA) faced when attempting to build Arco, and concludes with a brief interview with Frank McCormack who was a member of SSA.

I don't agree with McCormack's analysis of the new arena efforts, which come across as out-of-date (i.e. I believe the interview occurred before the 7 arena proposals became public).

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/content?oid=1345820

 

[VF21]

I went ahead and split this off into its own thread.

 

[nebs]

I met Frank once. He basically forced me to take a copy of Never Lose.

 

[Emma]

“If Kevin Johnson is serious about getting this done, he’ll tell the Maloofs to get off their butts and pay for it,” McCormack told Bites."

It’s worked before.

Arena issue ignorance in its purest, most concentrated form. He may as well say, "Bye Maloofs!" It will never, ever work again. Not here, not in Anytown USA. Not when the stakes are an NBA team. Not when Seattle, Anaheim, and Kansas City have empty palatial arenas, (or are committed to building one, in Seattle's case) just waiting for an NBA team to come and inhabit them.

Not in any other major city does a big time professional sports franchise have to pay for their own arena. Hell, the Cowboys didn't even need to pay what they did for their new house. Give their owner credit, he could have milked that city so hard.

People can't honestly believe that the Maloofs should pay for their own arena, can they? WHY? For what? For the privilege of having this fanbase? This market? You think Anaheim isn't a better market? Kansas City fans are at least as dedicated to their teams as we are to the Kings.

Articles like these are a waste of ink, paper, and time. If the arena is built, it won't cost any regular citizen anything of significance. To say the Maloofs should build their own arena is a classic "They're rich, we hate the rich, I'm not rich, I'm jealous, handle your own business richie rich" argument. And that's just an argument for the sake of arguing, and it's a juvenile waste of time.

 

[bajaden]

I'll try not to get political, but I'm always amazed that people will allow their elected officials at the city level, the state level, and at the federal level, to take money out of their pockets and spend it on things that they can't even see or touch. The state of california is bankrupt because of one give away program after another. The state can't even give you back the taxes you overpaid. And no one complains. The same people keep getting re-elected, again and again.

But when someone suggests a few cents arena tax on certain purchases. A few pennies that you wouldn't even notice, well by god were putting our foot down on that one. Even though it would be for something you can actually see, touch, and use on a regular basis. Something that would benefit the entire community and the surrounding communities. But no, were going to show those rich guys. Let them build their own arena or just get the hell out of town. I just don't get it.

 

[G_M]

^^What he said!^^

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I actually think owners should build their own arenas, problem is there's a limited amount of teams and more cities that want them, so if you have a team and want to keep it, you pay for the stadium or the owners go somewhere that will. Otherwise you get to the back of the line when your team leaves and you realize how much you miss it.

 

[Emma]

Don't get me wrong guys; I believe that in an ideal world, owners would choose their favorite market, build an arena, and settle in for as long as the franchise exists. That is, unfortunately, not the world we live in. I am also not opposed to paying a tenth of a penny more in sales tax to fund the thing, but that's just me.

On another note:
I opened my twitter page today and discovered that I have a new follower:

http://twitter.com/SacramentoFIRST

This is the account of the arena task force put together by Kevin Johnson. I've just begun to explore their website. It seems pretty interesting.

http://www.sacramentofirst.org/

 

[kennadog]

I actually think owners should build their own arenas, problem is there's a limited amount of teams and more cities that want them, so if you have a team and want to keep it, you pay for the stadium or the owners go somewhere that will. Otherwise you get to the back of the line when your team leaves and you realize how much you miss it.

Feds, states, counties and cities don't just help build arenas/entertainment venues. They subsidize financing for countless businesses and private developments big and small. Every day. I know, because I work for a federal agency that helps businesses all the time and have worked at a State agency, too.

So why pick on the Maloofs? Why not complain about the big public subsidies that went to Hyatt, Sheraton and Embassy Suites in Sacramento? Why not complain about $1 billion in public subsidy promised to Thomas for the railyard development? Those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Also, if you are a homeowner or hope to be one someday, you'll have the benefit of one of the biggest public subsidies going, being able to write off mortgage interest and property taxes on your tax return. The government could just say to homeowners, "Hey, if you can't afford to pay for a house without our help, tough."

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Feds, states, counties and cities don't just help build arenas/entertainment venues. They subsidize financing for countless businesses and private developments big and small. Every day. I know, because I work for a federal agency that helps businesses all the time and have worked at a State agency, too.

So why pick on the Maloofs? Why not complain about the big public subsidies that went to Hyatt, Sheraton and Embassy Suites in Sacramento? Why not complain about $1 billion in public subsidy promised to Thomas for the railyard development? Those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Also, if you are a homeowner or hope to be one someday, you'll have the benefit of one of the biggest public subsidies going, being able to write off mortgage interest and property taxes on your tax return. The government could just say to homeowners, "Hey, if you can't afford to pay for a house without our help, tough."

Wait a minute I'm not picking on the Maloofs. I support public financing, though most definitely not through regressive taxation schemes such as sales taxes which I favor abolishing altogether. I don't know how to elaborate further without getting political (and I do raise objections to many of your other examples including the mortgage interest write off, and I am a homeowner btw), my objection is to the "hate the rich" meme going around. Its a lot more complicated than that.

 

[kennadog]

Wait a minute I'm not picking on the Maloofs. I support public financing, though most definitely not through regressive taxation schemes such as sales taxes which I favor abolishing altogether. I don't know how to elaborate further without getting political (and I do raise objections to many of your other examples including the mortgage interest write off, and I am a homeowner btw), my objection is to the "hate the rich" meme going around. Its a lot more complicated than that.

Then I apologize. I was mainly responding to your opinion that you favor owners paying for their own arenas. So its only arenas you don't want the public to help fund? That isn't really financially very feasible, especially when it come to something like a large entertainment venue. Otherwise, we're in agreement on many points

I also don't like regressive taxes.

The rest of my argument was really against the Maloof haters and I should have been more clear. I really don't understand why it is okay to give millions to some businesses, but then people draw such a vicious line at giving any financial assistance to MSE, a fairly substantial business in the Sacramento Area and a business that wants to stay here.

I am a homeowner, too, and I've worked in affordable housing for lower-income households (rental & buying) for nearly 20 years now. That's why I feel fortunate for the mortgage interest/property tax writeoff. It certainly helps me and others become homeowners and/or allows them to buy more house than they otherwise could afford.

I appreciate that the government forgoes getting more taxes from me so homeownership is more affordable. But I never forget that foregone government revenue is a public subsidy to me. Its tax revenue given up that could be spent for other worthy things that could help some people who may need it more than me in reality. But, for now, the majority believes that homeownership is a goal worth government support. (I won't debate that one, although I could muster some arguments for both sides. I've been in the housing business long enough for that. )

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Then I apologize. I was mainly responding to your opinion that you favor owners paying for their own arenas. So its only arenas you don't want the public to help fund? That isn't really financially very feasible, especially when it come to something like a large entertainment venue. Otherwise, we're in agreement on many points

No. I support public financing of arenas but wish I didn't have to. I think that's the best I can say and remain apolitical

I am a homeowner, too, and I've worked in affordable housing for lower-income households (rental & buying) for nearly 20 years now. That's why I feel fortunate for the mortgage interest/property tax writeoff. It certainly helps me and others become homeowners and/or allows them to buy more house than they otherwise could afford.

I'm quite torn on this because arguably the mortgage interest write off is as much a giveaway to bankers as it is to home "owners". If it never existed then perhaps homes would have stayed at more reasonable prices. It encourages overspending and who really benefits from that? I don't think it's new buyers. Of course now that it is in place taking it away would send many into foreclosure so I wouldn't stand for it.

 

[kennadog]

Well I wish it didn't require quite so much public subsidy to build an arena. Some help is okay with me. I really think the league needs to figure out how to deal with the problem. Otherwise, smaller market areas will just become temporary stopovers for teams, until they can't pass up a great offer from somewhere else. That will not do much for fan loyalty.

On the other hand, I've lived in the Sacramento region for over 40 years now and I remember when there was no entertainment venue for the kind of events an arena can host. I hated having to drive to the Bay Area to see just about anything. I would hate it even more now.

So even if the Kings were to leave, I feel a sports/entertainment venue is something that enhances living in or near Sacramento. I like public support for certain amentities like art, dance, music, theater, parks, recreation areas, etc. I have to ration what events I can spend money on, but I love to have options.

And I love having a home town team to support. Reminds me of my childhood. (Although we stole the Kings from Kansas City and how many people know Rochester, NY once had a championship NBA team?)

I truly hope they can come up with a feasible financial plan somewhere in Sacramento. Heck, if they created a fund, I'd donate directly, although it would be a drop in the bucket. I'm no Daddy Warbucks. Neither are the Maloofs, for that matter.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Agreed 100% on all points there. Though I was only 10 when the Kings came to town. I do remember seeing John Cougar Mellencamp at the Memorial though, which I think was the best Sac had to offer at the time.

 

[Trueblood]

What they are missing more than anything in that article is that it only costed $25 to $40 million to build Arco. A new arena is obviously going to cost a heckuva lot more than that.

$25 to $40 million was a feasible number for NBA owners to throw around on an arena in 1988.

$400 to $500 million in 2010 isn't.

 

[JB_kings]

The Palace of Auburn Hills opened at the same time as Arco and cost $70 million and privately funded. The Palace has been renovated a number of times and they spent $110 million over the years. Arco was a bare bones budget arena when it opened and the upgrades have been pretty minimal when comparing the two arenas.

 

[kennadog]

The Palace of Auburn Hills opened at the same time as Arco and cost $70 million and privately funded. The Palace has been renovated a number of times and they spent $110 million over the years. Arco was a bare bones budget arena when it opened and the upgrades have been pretty minimal when comparing the two arenas.

Actually I read that Auburn Hills cost $80 million. The key issue is Arco was built so cheaply that the foundation will not support the kind of rehab needed to bring it up to current NBA standards. The city hired at least two consultants who reported that and said Arco is near the end of its useful economic life and can't be upgraded to economically feasible.

 

[JB_kings]

Actually I read that Auburn Hills cost $80 million. The key issue is Arco was built so cheaply that the foundation will not support the kind of rehab needed to bring it up to current NBA standards. The city hired at least two consultants who reported that and said Arco is near the end of its useful economic life and can't be upgraded to economically feasible.

I used to drive out to Woodland for work back when Arco was under construction. So I got to see it progress each day. I wished Lukenbill had put more into the building, but he was operating on a bare bones budget. So I don't dispute the claims of inadequate foundation. I know for a fact the roof leaked since the first year and it's been patched as best as they could. I even saw a video of them walking around on it and it looked in really bad shape.

If they had spent an extra 15-20 million to make sure the building was large enough for wide and open concourses, it could have been enough for them to upgrade over the years and make it a nice building even today. So this would be a non problem today.

But Luke was obsessed with the first Arco and the noise enhanced by plywood grandstand floors. He wanted small and intimate and loud. But how intimate should you go? I mean any fan who was walked the entire upper concourse and had to squeeze and duck at the corners knows that somebody screwed up the building plans or purposely cut corners.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a stretch to think if the fire marshalls were so inclined, they could shut the building down due to the poor emergency exit situation in case of a fire during an event. Lets hope the building meets the wrecking ball before we have to find out what a tragedy it would be to see a stampede of people trying to get out through little passageways and narrow stairs if a fire does happen. Did I mention the plywood stands?

 

[JB_kings]

I used to drive out to Woodland for work back when Arco was under construction. So I got to see it progress each day. I wished Lukenbill had put more into the building, but he was operating on a bare bones budget. So I don't dispute the claims of inadequate foundation. I know for a fact the roof leaked since the first year and it's been patched as best as they could. I even saw a video of them walking around on it and it looked in really bad shape.

If they had spent an extra 15-20 million to make sure the building was large enough for wide and open concourses, it could have been enough for them to upgrade over the years and make it a nice building even today. So this would be a non problem today.

But Luke was obsessed with the first Arco and the noise enhanced by plywood grandstand floors. He wanted small and intimate and loud. But how intimate should you go? I mean any fan who was walked the entire upper concourse and had to squeeze and duck at the corners knows that somebody screwed up the building plans or purposely cut corners.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a stretch to think if the fire marshalls were so inclined, they could shut the building down due to the poor emergency exit situation in case of a fire during an event. Lets hope the building meets the wrecking ball before we have to find out what a tragedy it would be to see a stampede of people trying to get out through little passageways and narrow stairs if a fire does happen. Did I mention the plywood stands?

Now that I think about it, Lukenbill built that stupid stadium foundation chasing baseball and the Raiders. I think it was about 10 million he spent on that. Should have spent it on Arco instead!