Dennis Smith Jr.:

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by bajaden, May 13, 2017.

  1. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    In contrast to Fox, Smith is more likely to be available when we pick at 8. Of course one never knows how he'll impress in his workouts. He could move back up the boards. Since I've already stated my reservations about Smith in other threads, I won't go over them again. Like Fox, Smith is a freak athlete without the length of Fox. And unlike Fox, he's already a good shooter off the dribble, which of course, with his ball handling, translates into being able to create his own shot.

    You don't dare go under a screen with Smith or you'll pay. And while he shot just under 36% from the three, which isn't great, but is respectable enough, to where you have to guard him. Given his good form, there's no reason to believe he won't get better once in the NBA. Aside from his jump shot, Smith is outstanding at getting to the basket with an explosive first step off the dribble. Smith is a fairly creative passer, who is capable of getting into the paint at will. There were times when I thought he could have been a tad more unselfish, but it probably would have helped if had someone to pass to.

    I've included and article on Smith which breaks down his shot. The only PG in the draft that's more creative off the dribble is Fultz, who basically has no obvious flaws offensively. So there's a lot to like about Smith. My biggest concerns were on the defensive side of the ball, where he got beat off the dribble, or lost track of his man. How much of that was due to not being 100% back from his injury I can't say. I'll leave by saying that he has the potential to be a good defender.

    I'll sum it with this. If Smith were in last years draft, he likely would have been the 2nd pick in the draft after Simmons. Just my opinion of course, but it gives you an idea of the talent he has. He has the potential to be a star in the league. If he wants it, it will happen.

    Here's a mix video from his season:

  2. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I'm hoping to the basketball gods that he is available at 8, maybe he'll have a slip up or two in workouts and that will result him to drop. Fox is moving up the charts is not surprising to say the least, he can very well be a top 4 pick and that ought to shake the draft up a tad.
    206Fan likes this.
  3. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well, lets hope first we don't drop below 8. Or better yet, hope we move up where we have more of a choice. The question we might have is, if both Isaac and Smith are available at 8, which way do we go? That's a tough choice for me, especially if it looks like Ntilikina will be be there at 10. We need a future PG so badly, that if you think Smith can be that guy, then maybe you gamble on Isaac sliding to 10. If not, then maybe draft Ntilikina as well, or go with Collins. Glad I don't have to make that choice.
  4. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Ya I love him especially here cause I believe in Joerger and is we get Teodosic even better. Don't give him more than 25mpg till he's playing defense which I believe he can do. I think he will be an all star would be huge for other guys on our team as he's a creator
  5. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Love DSJ's ability to create his offense. Concerns about attitude and effort are there, but without it, he's probably a top 3 talent in this draft. After spending 7 years with Cousins, would the Kings want to have another 4+ years with another questionable attitude? Just to be clear, he doesn't do the screaming at refs thing, but he does the "i'm frustrated so i don't feel like giving a full effort on D". He's not verbal with his frustrations, but you can see it on D when he is. Can you hope for the Kings to get through DSJ? They always tried with Cousins, but it didn't work. Could be the same case.

    DSJ is a gamble. At the very least, you know you end up with an explosive scorer. However, he may have the attitude of Reggie Jackson.
    biltalent likes this.
  6. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    That's the chance you would be taking. Or, it might be much ado about nothing. There's no way to know. The one thing we do know, is that talent wise, he's one of the best players in the draft. If you think that's enough, and your options are limited, then I think you have to take him if he's there. I can't read minds, and my crystal ball is on loan right now, but it looks like the only two players that play the PG position that might be available are Smith and Ntilikina.

    If I sat here and started praising Ntilikiina I'd be lying. I watched Smith play at least 12 or so times, probably more if you count re-watching some of the games. I've seen Ntilikina play twice, and in both games, he didn't play very much. So basically all I have is a bunch of mix tapes of him. So he's the mystery man to me. What I've seen looks pretty good, but I'd hate to draft any player based on that small amount of info. If the Kings draft him, I have to trust that they've done their homework. But right now, if my choice is between Ntilikina and Smith, I have to take Smith, simply because I know more about him. That doesn't make him the right choice.
    206Fan likes this.
  7. lwc

    lwc Well-Known Member

    The biggest question for me about DSJ is whether not the King's trust that Joerger can get the best out of him. With really any other coach I would stay far away from him. With Joerger, I could be convinced.
  8. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I'm incredibly leery about DSJ because of the issue of his attitude. God, it's not like we haven't been through that drama before. And what really concerns me is that you have attitude concerns with your point guard. Of all the positions on the floor, point guard is last guy I want to have doubts about. If anything, the point guard should be the guy with the highest character and the highest leadership abilities; after all he is going to be the guy who is probably going to have the ball more in his hands than anyone on the floor.
  9. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Those are legit concerns. Hopefully, if and when the Kings interview him, they can put those concerns to rest one way or the other.
    206Fan likes this.
  10. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Damn....this whole attitude thing is getting overblown. DSJ is someone we should take at 8 if he's there. Star potential more so than a Frank. What is more risky....taking a DSJ or taking a guy like Frank N? There is a whole lot of assuming that Frank N can play at a high level eventually.......I believe he's a risk of not being anything more than a 3 and D type.

    I think I trust Joerger to get out of Smith the most of his ability.
  11. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Well-Known Member

    One minor reason I want the Kings to draft him. I get to watch an uber talented player and Grant, Ailene, and the fanbase bleat about attitude concerns. I couldn't be happier and more entertained if this happened. I'd like a couple more headcases on the team.
    Kingsfan23 likes this.
  12. allrightythen

    allrightythen Well-Known Member

    I like his potential a lot but the attitude concerns give me pause. It may be much ado about nothing, but it may also be a lasting issue. With coach Joerger he won't get minutes unless he earns them on the both ends, which I like. Is he the type to respond to that with hard work or would he sulk? I'd welcome him here and hope Coach Joerger and his staff can connect with him as they've done in so many other cases.
  13. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    nothing wrong with talented headcases
    The Effort Police likes this.
  14. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think people are misunderstanding this attitude thing. Smith wasn't a problem child. He didn't cause any trouble on the team, or fight with ref's. Nothing like that. Most criticism from scouts, and anyone that watched him play a lot, was that at times he didn't seem to give full effort. Or at times, he seemed either lose focus, or just didn't care on defense. Aside from that, he's a good guy and got along well with his teammates and the coaching staff. I, personally have a problem with lack of effort. So it's probably a bigger deal to me than someone else. But make no mistake, he's one of the most talented players in this draft. Aside from Fultz, he may be the most talented PG in the draft. The main difference between the two is about three inches and that Fultz, while on a bad team like Smith, didn't appear to throw in the towel.
  15. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    I also think Fultz did a much better job of making his teammates better.
  16. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Considering that I think North Carolina St. had more talent on it's roster, I would say your right considering the results.
    lwc and Telemachus like this.
  17. kingdivac

    kingdivac Well-Known Member

    I think during his rookie year, I watched the Spurs shut down Damian Lillard in the playoffs, and he just shriveled up.....hopefully not the case with Smith.
  18. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    Smith might be a Vivek guy. Something tells me he likes the idea of a two headed, dynamic, fun to watch guard attack
  19. Sac.Kings

    Sac.Kings Well-Known Member

    To be fair, it's not like I would be hugely opposed to that either.

    I like Smith. I have him ranked 2nd mainly because of the ACL tear and the risk for re-injury. Attitude problems aren't that big of a deal for me and I think that has largely been overplayed. He's not a problem child. If Joerger made do with Cuz, Smith will be a walk in the park.
    206Fan and Kingsfan23 like this.
  20. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    That's my issue too. If he hadn't had injury problems I'd prefer him 5. Knee issues already for a dude who uses athleticism... and seeing Jabari Parker for instance
  21. New Era

    New Era Well-Known Member

    Sure, coach "made do" with Cuz but at the end of the day Cuz was Cuz and he was a huge distraction. It's not like Joerger was able to get him to change.

    I'm not suggesting DSJ has the temperament of Cuz but I do think we need to look really closely at that because right now the chemistry of our team is really good. We have a lot of character guys and I really think that will help in getting the team competitive again.
  22. Sac.Kings

    Sac.Kings Well-Known Member

    Sure, I understand that and I agree with you, but I haven't read anything about Smith that suggests character issues. He hasn't been arrested or suspended in any way, he's never gotten into a real argument with a ref or another player, etc. The biggest knock on him (besides the ACL tear) is he didn't give 100% effort at all times. I'm not really sure how that translates to a lack of character. That's something that can be improved with good coaching and discipline. It shouldn't be such a huge knock on him. If anything we should be thankful because it's allowing us to potentially take him at 5 or even 10. If he didn't have this inconsistent effort, he would go top 3 or 4 for sure, because his talent level dictates that.

    My number one choice is Fox because of his intangibles, he acts like a leader and that's worth it's weight in gold. I don't like that he can't shoot at all and it makes me really nervous, but he's worth the risk. I have Smith ranked 2nd right after Fox for PG for us as a realistic draft choice.
  23. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    My only concern with DSJ is his injury coupled with his playstyle. I would hate for our 5th pick to burn bright then fade away due to injury. You never know, he could have a very lengthy career without another major injury.

    The attitude issue is really about effort and body language apparently. Not arguemenative or unruly behavior. While lack of effort on defense can be fixed, I will always worry if he takes a spill. Same with OG should we draft him, but less so due to playstyle.
    With our 5th pick I would rather bank on Fox improving his flaws than rely on Lady Luck sparing an agressive PG another knee injury. If I am wrong, I would live with my choice.
    kingsfan1984 likes this.
  24. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    I also worry more about DSJ's injury history than his wavering effort level.

    Still, my current outlook is that the Kings should take Fox at #5 but that if he's gone in the top four picks then Dennis Smith should be the pick, assuming Fultz, Ball and Jackson are off the board as well.

    If Smith is the pick then it's up to Vlade to sign a starting veteran PG. That could be Collison or Lawson, or Teodesic or someone else entirely. But you don't want to hand the reins over to DSJ on day one. You want Joerger to make him earn it. And earn it by giving consistent effort on defense, moving the ball on offense instead of dribbling the air out of it, and by working to improve his jumper. Making him earn his minutes and ultimately earn a starting role will set the stage for a successful career for Smith, barring injury.
  25. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    If Fox is gone, I think Kings should draft Smith. His upside cannot be ignored and the #1 thing Kings should e looking at 5 is star potential.
    kingdivac and sidney like this.
  26. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    "His upside cannot be ignored!" Well now I am convinced :rolleyes: If you want star potential you take Isaac or Fox at #5. One of those guys will be available. I would not take Smith at #5 or #10. The guy is chopped liver. Bad defender, too small, pounds the ball, can't finish against height at the rim. Whoopee, he can jump high! I am telling you Smith is fool's gold.....don't do it Vlade! At #10 we could take Donovan then have two multi-position defenders in Isaac (2,3,4) and Donovan (1,2,3) with upside offensively. That's a great draft right there, Blob style. :cool:

    Of course my favorite prospect is Fox but I think there is only 50/50 odds he lasts to #5. If we can get Fox at #5 we have to try to trade up to get Isaac. I don't know how we could possibly swing this but all possibilities need to be explored. But going back to Smith, I don't think this guy would be any better running a team than Lawson! Why we going to waste 5th pick on poor man's Ty Lawson?! Ty is quicker than Smith he can blow by his man more easily. He can make the same passes. And actually Lawson is a more bulldog defender. Smith has a more fluid J than the knuckleball Lawson shoots but their accuracy are about the same.
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  27. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I agree, his upside should not be ignored. But the fact that he didn't give effort at times shouldn't be ignored either. The 5th pick is extremely important for the Kings, and they can't afford to make a mistake. If they bring Smith in for a workout and a interview, and then draft him, I'll trust their judgement. Because I'm sure they'll bring up his lack of effort at times.

    I want a player that will bust his butt 100% of the time he's on the floor. That's one of the things that's attractive about Fox. His motor is always going full bore. That's what we'll need from Smith if we draft him. And he's certainly capable of that.
  28. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    It's common knowledge that NC State's team was a train wreck........lack of effort is never good but don't ignore what was going on in this program. And before you say that DSJ should have continued to play hard, it is far from uncommon to see frustration get the better of young men. It just does. If or when Sac brings this kid in, I'm sure the powers that be will vet him.
  29. Hoovtrain

    Hoovtrain Well-Known Member

    I'm fine with Smith if Fox is gone
  30. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    All I'll say in response, is that Fultz was confronted with the exact same problem, and he still played hard. You may well be right. Smith may be a great player, once in the NBA. But Smith was the floor leader of his team. What kind of example was he setting. Different situation, but I had these same concerns about a player named Donte Greene. Not fair to compare the two. Different players in different situations. Still, it makes me nervous. But hey, I'll be Smith's biggest fan if we draft him.

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